Poll:Why Do You Think Cindy Is Protecting Casey???

[gardenhart]

You are so right, Magic Cat! Hit the proverbial nail on the head! CA was well aware of KC's problems and what she had done or could do. She must have been concerned about what was going to happen to Caylee, but failed to do anything that would have helped the situation. I would imagine that it started innocently enough. When KC was little and did something that warrented a time-out or a spanking, she would probably say something or do something cute and then CA would just let it slide. Heaven forbid that GA might want to spank "her" child! Then, the things that KC was doing probably got progressively worse, and instead of stepping in and doing what any good mother HAS to do at times while raising a child and turn that kid around and make them see that they are doing wrong and that it WILL NOT be tolerated, she just continued to "let it slide". And here we are today. I'm sure that CA saw the problems, was advised by family members, and as you say, told by the counselor, what really needed to be done in order to get to KC but CA didn't agree with these or didn't want to do them. There is none so blind as he who will not see.

What she most likely did was threaten and threaten and never actually deliver a spanking or a time out. That's exactly what she did with what the therapist recommended. If she'd been smart, she'd have taken the therapist's advice and quietly worked to get custody of Caylee, which I think she could have done and knew she could have done because of Casey's many thefts. Instead, she used getting custody as a threat. Confronting someone with empty threats never works.

The other telling thing here is that she did seek advice so she apparently did know there was something very badly wrong. I can't believe no one in the family ever noticed a problem before or that the therapist didn't also suggest trying to get Casey to get some kind of help. I know you can't force an adult to get treatment but she could have when Casey was younger. As far as we know, that was never done, later or earlier.

Someone posted here about their bipolar child, saying they understood Cindy's behavior. Well, aside from the fact that we don't know if Casey is bipolar, there's a big difference between struggling for years to help a child with a disorder and failing and hiding your head in the sand and ignoring or even enabling behavior that shows there is something wrong.

 

[lonetraveler]

I think that Casey has convinced her mother that Caylee's death is entirely Cindy's fault. That if Cindy had not confronted her about the stealing, threatened her that she was going to get custody of Caylee, tried to choke the crap out of her, that the death would not have occurred. Casey has probably never taken responsibility for her actions for her entire life and she is not about to start now. She has probably laid all blame on someone else anytime she was caught in the past. Cindy most likely feels that it is her fault because she did not do anything to protect Caylee from Casey.

 

[debbie0604]

I will not blame Casey's parents. I do know better.

I have a bipolar daughter (a monster of my own) and I have been a great Mom.
I cant change anything. I try to help in every way. gone beyond the call of duty, anyone who knows me has seen me go through a lot and admire the strength and courage I have had. (It is rare people see my tears, but it not rare that they see deep sadness). It is her decision to go off her medication much of the time, and after the age of 18 you have no control at all; at those times she's far from the child I raised.
Sometimes she takes meds and is the Child I raised.

SO WHEN THEY BLAME CA&GA I do know better. Mental illness is often not detected till much later.
I only blame them for not getting representation for Caylee...No body is there for the baby at the trial....I do not mean well wishers, I do not mean the state. I mean someone that stands up and talks about CAYLEE for Caylee's rights, and the loss they feel.
That makes me mad. IMHO they should hire someone; and I do understand that they will stand behind Casey because they have hope. They can hire someone for Caylee; YES they can.
BUT I do not blame the Cindy and George for anything Casey has done. THEY did not create her mental illness. But they may have some of it too.... I do know better.

I am sure that you have been a great mom to your child suffering from bipolar. We moms (that are good moms) always have hope for our children and I appreciate that you are thinking that the A's are holding out hope for KC. At first I thought that CA was in denial for what KC had done.. but after hearing all of her lies (and I can now call it lies after I know what has happened to Caylee, and all other details that are coming out in the document discovery) to LE, I know that she has been "covering up" for KC. That, to me, is not constructive, healthy parenting, and I say that because I know that this is a pattern that she has had for all of the 22+ years of KC's life. In a crisis, one does not just "all of a sudden" adopt a pattern of lying such as CA did to LE. If Caylee had meant so much to her, she would have been forthcoming with the TRUTH - that she did not know a babysitter, she would not have been placing blame on JG, she would not have been making up stuff about the smell, and she would have been demanding KC to tell her where the baby was or else she was not going to ever help her anymore. There is such a thing as tough love, and parents have to practice that. It is extremely difficult to do.

As far as GA, I felt sorry for him because he suffered so much after Caylee's remains were found. I had hoped that the treatment he had received would have enabled him to be more forthcoming and do the right thing for Caylee. He is stuck in the web of dysfunction of that family and that is where I believe he will remain.

CA has told LE during one of the video interviews that KC has never been diagnosed with a mental illness. It has also been reported that the psychological exams revealed that there is no mental illness diagnosis. I believe that she suffers from a personality disorder and that is different. However, she knew what she did when she killed Caylee. I don't blame GA and CA for KC murdering Caylee. KC should pay for the full consequences of that herself. I blame GA and CA for continuing to support KC by lying and covering up for her, and taking in money in Caylee's name, and paying out money for KC in Caylee's name. That is not justice to Caylee and that is supporting KC's crime.

 

[justthinkin]

I voted for none of the above. I don't think Cindy is in denial at all, even when Casey was pregnant with Caylee. I think Cindy was trying to hide the fact that her unmarried daughter was pregnant. It was a con, that's all. She was just trying to put something over on her relatives. Appearances mean everything to someone like Cindy.

I also believe if she ever feels guilt it is only fleeting and quite shallow. I believe she covers for Casey for one purpose only. She needs Casey for narcissistic supply because every once in a while Casey delivers, ie., Casey saying she has too much respect for her parents." Cindy goes ga ga over that kind of stuff, and sucks it up like a sponge. Words are far more important than actions to her. Without KC around, who is going to tell Cindy how great she is even if KC was only doing it periodically to gain favors from Cindy?

Cindy threatened to take Caylee from KC, but it was only an empty threat. She really didn't want total responsibility for Caylee. Didn't want to make the effort to gain custody, didn't want to pay to get her granddaughter when she'd been paying all along. Had this trial not become so public, Cindy may have gone her merry way whatever that was, and likely not ever mentioned Caylee again.

It's interesting, we never heard anything about a private memorial, and I'm sure that's because there wasn't one, and there wasn't one because true grief wasn't there.

 

[gardenhart]

I am sure that you have been a great mom to your child suffering from bipolar. We moms (that are good moms) always have hope for our children and I appreciate that you are thinking that the A's are holding out hope for KC. At first I thought that CA was in denial for what KC had done.. but after hearing all of her lies (and I can now call it lies after I know what has happened to Caylee, and all other details that are coming out in the document discovery) to LE, I know that she has been "covering up" for KC. That, to me, is not constructive, healthy parenting, and I say that because I know that this is a pattern that she has had for all of the 22+ years of KC's life. In a crisis, one does not just "all of a sudden" adopt a pattern of lying such as CA did to LE. If Caylee had meant so much to her, she would have been forthcoming with the TRUTH - that she did not know a babysitter, she would not have been placing blame on JG, she would not have been making up stuff about the smell, and she would have been demanding KC to tell her where the baby was or else she was not going to ever help her anymore. There is such a thing as tough love, and parents have to practice that. It is extremely difficult to do.

As far as GA, I felt sorry for him because he suffered so much after Caylee's remains were found. I had hoped that the treatment he had received would have enabled him to be more forthcoming and do the right thing for Caylee. He is stuck in the web of dysfunction of that family and that is where I believe he will remain.

CA has told LE during one of the video interviews that KC has never been diagnosed with a mental illness. It has also been reported that the psychological exams revealed that there is no mental illness diagnosis. I believe that she suffers from a personality disorder and that is different. However, she knew what she did when she killed Caylee. I don't blame GA and CA for KC murdering Caylee. KC should pay for the full consequences of that herself. I blame GA and CA for continuing to support KC by lying and covering up for her, and taking in money in Caylee's name, and paying out money for KC in Caylee's name. That is not justice to Caylee and that is supporting KC's crime.

I agree with everything you said, debbie, except if she had a court ordered evaluation, it would have been reported if the doctor had found a personality disorder. Many people do not consider personality disorders to be something other than a mental illness. And I've covered trials where the defendant was found in the court ordered evaluation to have a personality disorder. It was reported just like any other disorder would have been. So either the reports are wrong or no serious disorders were found or the evaluation was only to determine if she was sane enough to stand trial, and legal sanity doesn't preclude a defendant having all kinds of disorders. I have a hunch that evaluation won't be made public until the trial, at which time we can expect the defense to be all over anything the court psychiatrist or theirs found.

 

[Ocalagal]

Bam I put guilt.... but my reason was the same as yours... I think it has to do with the who the father of Caylee is... IMO

 

[tweety933]

Family Secrets is why she is defending her!

 

[debbie0604]

I agree with everything you said, debbie, except if she had a court ordered evaluation, it would have been reported if the doctor had found a personality disorder. Many people do not consider personality disorders to be something other than a mental illness. And I've covered trials where the defendant was found in the court ordered evaluation to have a personality disorder. It was reported just like any other disorder would have been. So either the reports are wrong or no serious disorders were found or the evaluation was only to determine if she was sane enough to stand trial, and legal sanity doesn't preclude a defendant having all kinds of disorders. I have a hunch that evaluation won't be made public until the trial, at which time we can expect the defense to be all over anything the court psychiatrist or theirs found.

Thank you. I think you're right, she may have had a court ordered evaluation to determine if she was "legally able" to stand trial. The source of my information regarding her not having a "mental illness" was NG. You are right, the results of her psych eval may not be revealed until trial. Specific information from that evaluation would not released in the documents (I wouldn't think anyway) due to HIPAA. It is my assumption that she suffers from Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and Psychopathy, however, the latter is considered a mental health disorder. But then, I'm being nice... one could on the other hand just say straight out that she's just plain evil. I have no problem with that.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I understand what your mother means. I am a mother with grandchildren; but, my children will always be my 'babies". I was 60 years old and my mother still introduced me to people as "her baby." I would hate the bad decisions and results of any of my children's actions, but I don't think the love for them could go away. Mama's are just like that.

ITA- I don't think there is anything my son could do to make me stop loving him.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I agree with everything you said, debbie, except if she had a court ordered evaluation, it would have been reported if the doctor had found a personality disorder. Many people do not consider personality disorders to be something other than a mental illness. And I've covered trials where the defendant was found in the court ordered evaluation to have a personality disorder. It was reported just like any other disorder would have been. So either the reports are wrong or no serious disorders were found or the evaluation was only to determine if she was sane enough to stand trial, and legal sanity doesn't preclude a defendant having all kinds of disorders. I have a hunch that evaluation won't be made public until the trial, at which time we can expect the defense to be all over anything the court psychiatrist or theirs found.

It's been my experience that when a "court ordered" psych eval takes place while being held in jail it is to make sure the person is safe from themselves and to be able to tell if the person can "Aid in their own defense" The evaluation allows the experts to make sure the person is not showing signs of psychosis or mania or seems suicidal, etc etc.. (pretty much they are looking for signs of insanity.) If they find you are unable to assist in your defense or they find that you honestly don't understand what you have done wrong, they ship you off to a psych facility so you can be brought back to sanity (via meds) and stand trial for your crime.

Remember the couple who kidnapped Elizabeth Smart? They were both found to be unable to assist in their defense and were sent off. I believe they are both still in those psych hospitals and have not been to trial, even after all this time.

ETA- I know I have brought this up before but I think it is something that bears repeating- The psych eval that Casey got in jail (even if it was a basic quicky eval) would be enough for them to tell if she were insane or had any of serious mental health issue going on (they know what to look for, the tests to give, the right questions to ask..) They would NOT have let her bond out of jail and go home for a month if they found something "major" wrong with her- she'd have been moved to the state psych hospital.

 

[songline]

What is wrong with Casey is far from Bipolar disorder.. there is a huge difference between personality disorders and mood disorders. For example, the cause and the fact that there are no medications to specifically treat personality disorders.

Not all parents are to blame for their children's issues. I know some great parents with horrible children... I know great kids with awful parents. But I also know horrible people raised by very dysfunctional and misguided parents. Bipolar and illnesses like it are not caused in any way or even in part by parents who lie and enable, who allow their children (and their spouses) to steal money from them or look the other way for two years when they know in their gut their grown child who they still completely financially support (they also 100% support her child) is only pretending to have a job (Though at different times throughout this case, both George and Cindy have admitted to this).

There is "going beyond the call of duty" and then there is going way too far, allowing way too much.

As for people dx'd with Bipolar going off their meds? I'd love to discuss it, perhaps help shed some light onto that ever common "Bipolar behavior".. to have a thread in the jury room or wherever if anyone is ever interested. Not excuse it or even attempt to- (we should stay on our meds- always- there is no excuse), just to help understand the "mind-set" that often goes with going off meds.

Thank you for hoping to help me understand. I DO...Before she (my daughter)was diagnosed and it took years to get a diagnosis, because she wanted to say there is something wrong with me and she isn't going to therapy.
I knew there was a huge problem with lies, manipulating, secrets, not wanting to take any responsibility and more. (shame and blame seemed to be her way)
I can imagine that the Anthony saw a problem too, but could not get it diagnosed.
MINE was almost 40 when it was diagnosed, and she was not a willing participant in the diagnosis,
she tried suicide and was forced into the hospital that is how we finally learned the truth.
I imagine that Cindy knew something was wrong but may have not been able to do much once Casey was past 18. (you can not force them or convince them to get better)
As for going off the meds. she had meds she liked and decided she is fine and does not need them anymore. (very common in bipolar victims)
She can see that it does not work when she goes off, but she does it anyway over and over all the time.
I did all the accepting, understanding, supporting, loving one can do. As a parent I have to try to understand - the Anthony's who may have known there is an issue, but were not sure what they can do because after the age of 18 there is little one CAN do.
You and I had a similar talk on another thread once. As you know I must have read about 10 different books too. I AM NOT SAYING CASEY HAD/HAS BIPOLAR.
I am saying parents can not be blamed when there is a mental disorder. I think there is a mental disorder.
That does not mean that I hold the Anthony's in high esteem NO, they do have faults.

 

[azwriter]

I had to vote none of the above.
To me it seems Cindy has a lot of pride and the very idea her daughter behaved badly by stealing, lying and ultimately ended her own daughter's life, is something Cindy believes reflects on her. Like many of you posted, Cindy is far too concerned what others think of her. There's no way she will ever admit her daughter is evil. That would be like Cindy announcing her own guilt of failure of raising Casey.
jmo

 

[NJ Lawyer]

I noticed this thread got moved to a "parking lot". While maybe the precise title of this thread (or exact subject matter) for some reason didn't belong on the main board (though I don't get why there are threads on the main board like "Have you changed your opinion about Lee", "Things that make you wonder" or even "light a candle by your computer"), I do think the main board should have *some* kind of distinct thread addressing Cindy and George Anthony. I think their relationship with Caylee, Casey, with the search, their interaction with Law Enforcement and, yes, even the potential reasons why they are defending Casey....are all EXTREMELY relevant to this case - in terms of a motive, who knew what and when, why the case is proceeding as it is (in terms of timing, evidence, etc.) and even evidence itself. I know that some folks hate to see the Anthonys "bashed". I feel strongly that Casey's being a product of this particular household, and a discussion of the personalities in the home, is crucial to this case and in many respects, it's understandable that the discussions are "negative" and therefore seen as "bashing." But I still think the discussions are very relevant to the case overall and should, IMHO, be included on the main board.

Just my humble opinion, stated with all due respect to admins.

 

[debbie0604]

What she most likely did was threaten and threaten and never actually deliver a spanking or a time out. That's exactly what she did with what the therapist recommended. If she'd been smart, she'd have taken the therapist's advice and quietly worked to get custody of Caylee, which I think she could have done and knew she could have done because of Casey's many thefts. Instead, she used getting custody as a threat. Confronting someone with empty threats never works.

The other telling thing here is that she did seek advice so she apparently did know there was something very badly wrong. I can't believe no one in the family ever noticed a problem before or that the therapist didn't also suggest trying to get Casey to get some kind of help. I know you can't force an adult to get treatment but she could have when Casey was younger. As far as we know, that was never done, later or earlier.

Someone posted here about their bipolar child, saying they understood Cindy's behavior. Well, aside from the fact that we don't know if Casey is bipolar, there's a big difference between struggling for years to help a child with a disorder and failing and hiding your head in the sand and ignoring or even enabling behavior that shows there is something wrong.

I'm not sure that CA would have been able to gain custody of Caylee only because of KC's thefts. However, if she did indeed know during all of the time after Caylee was born that KC was going out partying, and she had access to the pictures that we are now seeing, she may have stood a great chance of gaining custody of her had she tried. We know of the one time that she confronted KC in front of AH, so we know that she was snooping around on the computer. That lets me know that she knew some of the things that KC was doing. I also believe deep down that the A's knew that KC was not working, because of GA's statements to LE. He just didn't want to come out and admit it. So the A's were Caylee's full mean of support not KC, and they were taking really good care of her and provided well for her. I commend them for that.

My question has always been that the A's had to know that KC has had a pathological problem with lying and stealing for years. There was disention between she and CA. Why did this family not seek counseling long ago? I don't understand how a family can sweep problems such as this under a rug and pretend it isn't happening for as long as they did. I understand a mother's love for her child because I too am a mother and I would love my child no matter what they did. But I could not stand by seeing them making wrong choice after wrong choice and see them basically self destruct before my very eyes without seeking psychological help for them and myself and my family.

When I say that I think KC has NPD, it is only my assumption and I am no mental health expert, but from having some knowledge on the subject, she fits the criteria from what I can see. However, it does not mean that this "disorder" precludes her from knowing right from wrong. She knew what she was doing when she murdered Caylee. She is responsible for herself. But why are the A's still covering, lying and taking up for her? That to me is wrong and in my opinion unhealthy - for them and for her.

 

[Ginnie]

I think she has some kind of involvment, so she must follow the course she is on!

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Cindy was the one who finally reported Caylee missing. IIRC George was heard saying in the background "You already called?" This would indicate he would not have already called if it had been left up to him. He went to work after driving a smelly car home from the impound lot just the same as CA did. They both were in denial.

How come everyone, the majority of us women, are so hard on CA?

She may be trying to control her world because it was spinning out of control. Did she make George gamble away their (her) money? STRESS. Did she make George log on to *advertiser censored*? STRESS. Did she make KC pregnant as a teenager? STRESS

Who was the better role model? The parent who held a full time job consistently for many many years or the one who hadn't held down a good paying job over the life of his children practically? Who came home from working all day to look after a little one while facing her 50th B-day? George said himself that he hardly ever had the responsibility of looking after Caylee without either CA or KC being there as well.

Hey if you want to wear the pants in the family then you had better take some responsibility for the family. What the hell?

They are all quilty of something but why so easy on GA and so hard on CA? He's ex LE for God's sake. Has he been making good decisions?

It's been rumored that he is the one with mental illness in his family background so maybe CA's been dealing with those issues too.

KC and Lee wrote "it would be awkward to see him" referring to a Father's day after Caylee had been born. Why?

Someone please explain why CA is to blame whereas GA gets a pass. Please.

Also, what did CA find out several days after KC's arrest that made her change her story and the intensity of her reaction? Why didn't GA seem panicked like CA sounded in her initial 911 calls?

 

[NJ Lawyer]

Cindy was the one who finally reported Caylee missing. IIRC George was heard saying in the background "You already called?" This would indicate he would not have already called if it had been left up to him. He went to work after driving a smelly car home from the impound lot just the same as CA did. They both were in denial.

How come everyone, the majority of us women, are so hard on CA?

She may be trying to control her world because it was spinning out of control. Did she make George gamble away their (her) money? STRESS. Did she make George log on to *advertiser censored*? STRESS. Did she make KC pregnant as a teenager? STRESS

Who was the better role model? The parent who held a full time job consistently for many many years or the one who hadn't held down a good paying job over the life of his children practically? Who came home from working all day to look after a little one while facing her 50th B-day? George said himself that he hardly ever had the responsibility of looking after Caylee without either CA or KC being there as well.

Hey if you want to wear the pants in the family then you had better take some responsibility for the family. What the hell?

They are all quilty of something but why so easy on GA and so hard on CA? He's ex LE for God's sake. Has he been making good decisions?

It's been rumored that he is the one with mental illness in his family background so maybe CA's been dealing with those issues too.

KC and Lee wrote "it would be awkward to see him" referring to a Father's day after Caylee had been born. Why?

Someone please explain why CA is to blame whereas GA gets a pass. Please.

Also, what did CA find out several days after KC's arrest that made her change her story and the intensity of her reaction? Why didn't GA seem panicked like CA sounded in her initial 911 calls?

I cringe at the actions of the entire Anthony family (and am so very critical of them, mostly for their failure to disclose what they know) but I TOTALLY agree that, for some, George seems to get a pass and Cindy doesn't. And I also don't understand it. For some reason, people think George is just "going along with" Cindy and is some kind of victim. I respect that Cindy works her butt off whereas it sure doesn't seem like George has contributed much work-wise, except for trying to launder money with a scammer and losing his family's $ in the process, hanging out checking out *advertiser censored* or generally just being another mouth to feed. And when Caylee's remains were found, it was GEORGE who tried to hush up Cindy when she blurted out about the Pooh blanket. Even his "suicide" note and ramblings spoke suggested that Casey's evil friends killed Caylee, which he probably knows isn't true. Loser.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Maybe this could be a thread? Why do peeps support George but do not support Cindy?

 

[panthera]

I can think of a couple of reasons not listed: need for control and not wanting the world to know that her daughter is capable of killing Caylee, in other words, humiliation if she acknowledges the truth. I also believe there could be some family secret they don't want revealed if they were to throw Casey under the bus, so to speak. I also believe she will forever regret calling 911 and saying the car smelled like a dead body had been in it. MOO

 

[FightTheOstrich]

You are so right, Magic Cat! Hit the proverbial nail on the head! CA was well aware of KC's problems and what she had done or could do. She must have been concerned about what was going to happen to Caylee, but failed to do anything that would have helped the situation. I would imagine that it started innocently enough. When KC was little and did something that warrented a time-out or a spanking, she would probably say something or do something cute and then CA would just let it slide. Heaven forbid that GA might want to spank "her" child! Then, the things that KC was doing probably got progressively worse, and instead of stepping in and doing what any good mother HAS to do at times while raising a child and turn that kid around and make them see that they are doing wrong and that it WILL NOT be tolerated, she just continued to "let it slide". And here we are today. I'm sure that CA saw the problems, was advised by family members, and as you say, told by the counselor, what really needed to be done in order to get to KC but CA didn't agree with these or didn't want to do them. There is none so blind as he who will not see.

Great post. I think this is made all the more interesting by the idea that CA "forced" KC to keep Caylee. She knew her child yet she insisted that KC keep Caylee.