Possible Matches for Anna - #1

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

http://www.doenetwork.org/hot/hotcase527.html

Lori,
I looked up the case that you inquired about. This body consisted of a human skeleton and some other small bones that were found in the delta here in Sacramento. The bones were found in 1979 which was way before DNA was around. We are in the process of exhuming old cases to submit for DNA but this process is going to take some time. We do not have bones exhumed for DNA analysis on this particular case at this time.


I looked at the case to see if there was anything I could do to answer your question about this possibly being the missing girl and I can not find anything. I can not find that we even sent these bones to an anthropologist for age or sex determination. We do have some teeth to do dental comparison but I doubt this little girl had any dental work done at such a young age.

Sorry I could not have been of more help at this time.

Kim Gillis
Deputy Coroner
Sacramento County Coroner

Rest assured I have not contacted any living Anna possibilities. Someone has got to look into the very possible reality that she is no longer with us. (Quote by George Brody: "I'm glad the Tot is dead") Every LE official I have talked with over the last few weeks involving UID's that could be possible matches, have never been contacted by Anna's family to be ruled out.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

http://www.doenetwork.org/hot/hotcase527.html




Rest assured I have not contacted any living Anna possibilities. Someone has got to look into the very possible reality that she is no longer with us. (Quote by George Brody: "I'm glad the Tot is dead") Every LE official I have talked with over the last few weeks involving UID's that could be possible matches, have never been contacted by Anna's family to be ruled out.

I have scoured the Doe Network for possible matches (as have many of you). Unfortunately, the DN only represents a small fraction of UID's - even more so back in the seventies. Among those who are listed, there are none that match with the scenario of Anna being killed shortly after her disappearance and the body being left in the general area of her disappearance. The farther away and longer that Anna would have had to kept by her abductor before being killed, the less likely that the UID's would be Anna. (In other words, the body of a five year old female discovered in the Santa Cruz area with an estimated time of death as the early-to-mid 1970's would be a strong possible match. Much less likely is a fourteen year old female discovered in Idaho in the eary-to-mid 1980's.)

If anyone uncovers a UID that is of interest, but is hesitant to post that information out of concern for Annasmom's feelings, please PM me with the info and I will definitely follow up on it. I continue to believe that Anna is alive, but our goal is to uncover the truth and we must pursue it whever the evidence leads us.

 

[SherlockJr]

http://www.doenetwork.org/hot/hotcase527.html




Rest assured I have not contacted any living Anna possibilities. Someone has got to look into the very possible reality that she is no longer with us. (Quote by George Brody: "I'm glad the Tot is dead") Every LE official I have talked with over the last few weeks involving UID's that could be possible matches, have never been contacted by Anna's family to be ruled out.

iW, I believe it was quoted by GW. If he actually really said those exact words. I am a believer that Anna is alive and was taken from her yard. We have even discussed here on Anna's forum the possibility of UID, however I don't consider it reality.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

http://www.doenetwork.org/hot/hotcase527.html

The timing of this case fits with Anna's disappearance, but without an age and sex determination of the bones, it is of little use as of now. However, since DNA extration does seem to be planned on this UID, it may yield information that would cause us to re-evaluate its relevance. If you hear any additional information, please keep me informed.

 

[Cubby]

http://www.doenetwork.org/hot/hotcase527.html

Maybe this is a silly question, but considering Anna went missing as a child wouldn't there be a way of determing whether the teeth for this UID were that of a child's primary teeth or where they permanent teeth? Without DNA that little information could rule in or out.

 

[Annasmom]

http://www.doenetwork.org/hot/hotcase527.html




Rest assured I have not contacted any living Anna possibilities. Someone has got to look into the very possible reality that she is no longer with us. (Quote by George Brody: "I'm glad the Tot is dead") Every LE official I have talked with over the last few weeks involving UID's that could be possible matches, have never been contacted by Anna's family to be ruled out.

The quote you mention was made by George Waters, not George Brody, in response to my story in the San Francisco Chronicle. It was tape-recorded surreptitiously. Since this is an open case, I have never thought it was up to us to contact law enforcement people regarding unidentifieds (how would we know about them?), but rather the reverse. At the risk of sounding unduly hopeful, I would like to cite Jerry Nance of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children: He says that most abductions of infants and young children turn out to be cases of children taken by people who wish to raise them, not by murderers or sexual predators. I want to do everything I can to look for Anna, but I can't really see how it's possible to do what this post suggests.

 

[InterestedNHelping]

Annasmom, you did what you needed to do, when DNA was put into the national database, to cross reference, and they told you that they had no UID's that matched, as they ran it through their system. Of course there will be UIDs with no DNA yet, like this current case may suggest, but technically, you already have been run through, and ruled out from what was told to us after the "C" DNA test. So, no worries, so far so good...and we will be the ones looking into the 'not so positive' ideas, and hopefully when we find Anna, it will be because she is looking too!

 

[Annasunc]

When I spoke with a director of the California DOJ forensic lab in May or June, I was told that

1. Even though Anna's DNA was not obtained from her personal items, the DNA samples submitted by Annasmom and her brothers were enough to determine a positive match if compared to Anna's DNA, and

2. These DNA results will be kept permanently in the FBI national database.

 

[MagicRose99]

The timing of this case fits with Anna's disappearance, but without an age and sex determination of the bones, it is of little use as of now. However, since DNA extration does seem to be planned on this UID, it may yield information that would cause us to re-evaluate its relevance. If you hear any additional information, please keep me informed.

I honestly think that if these bones belonged to a child of around 5, the coroner would be able to tell that... they'd be much smaller than those of a teen or adult... wouldn't they?

 

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

The quote you mention was made by George Waters, not George Brody,

That's right, I'm sorry, Unfortunately the fact GW said it makes it more sinister.

Since this is an open case, I have never thought it was up to us to contact law enforcement people regarding unidentified (how would we know about them?),

That's why UID's are listed on hundreds of web sites, to assist the public in searching for lost loved ones. LE is overworked, underpaid, and understaffed. They don't have the time or resources to research and then exhume each (prior to DNA) UID, unless there is probable cause. A sad but true fact. That's why people hire PI's, put their story in the media, or on the web, to get the help that LE can't provide.

I want to do everything I can to look for Anna, but I can't really see how it's possible to do what this post suggests.

Annasmom, it is very possible. I can furnish you with the information I have found, I can only get so far with each of these cases being of no relation to Anna. You (or your sons...a relative) need to contact each of the LE handling these possible UID's. You need to firmly but politely tell them that you are a mother of an abducted/missing child and you need to rule out the UID as a possible match. I know it's not the ending you are looking for, it actually just sucks to even think about it, but as Dr. Doogie pointed out to me last week..."this is real life".

The process of having this done will be very time consuming, it could take years, and it certainly doesn't mean you have to stop your search for a living, healthy, happy Anna.

Think of it this way: If you push to have these UID's exhumed for a DNA comparison and they are NOT Anna, it will be a relief for you to know for sure. It will also be great that the UID's DNA will be entered into CODIS. It will also benefit some other family like yours who has been searching for years to find their child. It will help LE, it will help people on WS.

As far as Jerry Nance goes, I wonder what statistic he is going by...non-family abductions or family abductions. I'm sure the percentage is quite different if the abductor is a father who is trying to get out of child support payments as apposed to a couple in a car who really want a pretty little girl to call their own. The way I see it Dr. Waters comment, "I'm glad the Tot is dead" can only have 2 meanings. 1. He/they killed Anna and hid/buried/cremated her body or 2. They had absolutely nothing to do with her disappearance, and totally believed she drown in the creek. Since they apparenly never read the letter written by Joe Ford to prompt the response, number one is the most likely choice.

 

[Cubby]

I have to disagree that the two G's would have harmed Anna-as was suggested in the pp, especially in light of GB's issues with being the irrevockable beneficiary of GW's insurance policies and the dollar left for Anna in GW's will. Why go through all the trouble? For an alibi? I doubt it.

I think we are all aware there are several thousand UID, several hundred presumed to be children in CA many of which are NOT listed anywhere. At least not that I am aware of, or from what I have read. I think those of us willing to help, could certainly work together to try to gain access to those lists, and if we find any potential matches that would need further pursing from family, we could forward that info to Doogie, as he requested in a PP and allow the family and those closest to the investigation pursue it from there. I'm much newer at this than others here, but am willing to help and willing to learn. I'm a PM away.......

just my .02

 

[Annasmom]

That's right, I'm sorry, Unfortunately the fact GW said it makes it more sinister.



That's why UID's are listed on hundreds of web sites, to assist the public in searching for lost loved ones. LE is overworked, underpaid, and understaffed. They don't have the time or resources to research and then exhume each (prior to DNA) UID, unless there is probable cause. A sad but true fact. That's why people hire PI's, put their story in the media, or on the web, to get the help that LE can't provide.

Annasmom, it is very possible. I can furnish you with the information I have found, I can only get so far with each of these cases being of no relation to Anna. You (or your sons...a relative) need to contact each of the LE handling these possible UID's. You need to firmly but politely tell them that you are a mother of an abducted/missing child and you need to rule out the UID as a possible match. I know it's not the ending you are looking for, it actually just sucks to even think about it, but as Dr. Doogie pointed out to me last week..."this is real life".

The process of having this done will be very time consuming, it could take years, and it certainly doesn't mean you have to stop your search for a living, healthy, happy Anna.

Think of it this way: If you push to have these UID's exhumed for a DNA comparison and they are NOT Anna, it will be a relief for you to know for sure. It will also be great that the UID's DNA will be entered into CODIS. It will also benefit some other family like yours who has been searching for years to find their child. It will help LE, it will help people on WS.

As far as Jerry Nance goes, I wonder what statistic he is going by...non-family abductions or family abductions. I'm sure the percentage is quite different if the abductor is a father who is trying to get out of child support payments as apposed to a couple in a car who really want a pretty little girl to call their own. The way I see it Dr. Waters comment, "I'm glad the Tot is dead" can only have 2 meanings. 1. He/they killed Anna and hid/buried/cremated her body or 2. They had absolutely nothing to do with her disappearance, and totally believed she drown in the creek. Since they apparenly never read the letter written by Joe Ford to prompt the response, number one is the most likely choice.

I was hoping to get some feedback on this from Kelly Jolkowski, who as far as I know is the only other parent of a missing child on WebSleuths. Her mailbox is full, however, so I guess I'm on my own. I don't know how to tell you...but what you suggest is absolutely impossible for me to do if I am to maintain any emotional equilibrium. My resources, physical and psychic, are not limitless, nor are the hours in the day. "Why seek ye the living among the dead?" comes to mind. We would not have come this far without Doogie, Sherlock, and the other members of WebSleuths, but if we siphon off energy to lobby on Unidentifieds in this way, that's just so much diverted from our present efforts. I hope this doesn't sound dismissive. It makes me feel bad to write it, but I know my limits...and I can't do what you suggest.

 

[MagicRose99]

I was hoping to get some feedback on this from Kelly Jolkowski, who as far as I know is the only other parent of a missing child on WebSleuths. Her mailbox is full, however, so I guess I'm on my own. I don't know how to tell you...but what you suggest is absolutely impossible for me to do if I am to maintain any emotional equilibrium. My resources, physical and psychic, are not limitless, nor are the hours in the day. "Why seek ye the living among the dead?" comes to mind. We would not have come this far without Doogie, Sherlock, and the other members of WebSleuths, but if we siphon off energy to lobby on Unidentifieds in this way, that's just so much diverted from our present efforts. I hope this doesn't sound dismissive. It makes me feel bad to write it, but I know my limits...and I can't do what you suggest.

YOU are one of the strongest women I know... you know your limits and no one is asking any more of you than what you can give. I admire your strength and your determination to find the truth. You're one of my heroes... God bless you.

 

[LisainWV]

I was hoping to get some feedback on this from Kelly Jolkowski, who as far as I know is the only other parent of a missing child on WebSleuths. Her mailbox is full, however, so I guess I'm on my own. I don't know how to tell you...but what you suggest is absolutely impossible for me to do if I am to maintain any emotional equilibrium. My resources, physical and psychic, are not limitless, nor are the hours in the day. "Why seek ye the living among the dead?" comes to mind. We would not have come this far without Doogie, Sherlock, and the other members of WebSleuths, but if we siphon off energy to lobby on Unidentifieds in this way, that's just so much diverted from our present efforts. I hope this doesn't sound dismissive. It makes me feel bad to write it, but I know my limits...and I can't do what you suggest.

Annasmom, I think you've made a wise decision for yourself - look for a living Anna. What's the worst that can happen? You leave this earth never finding her in any form? Well, not to worry, God takes care of it then - I believe, at that point, you'll have your answers.

You are a strong lady and I admire your tenacity!!

 

[Dr. Doogie]

...It makes me feel bad to write it, but I know my limits...and I can't do what you suggest.

This is why I think that any UID's that researchers out there believe may be related should be sent to me via PM. Some we may have already looked into and some may be worthy of pursuit. What I can do is act as a buffer so that Annasmom is not bombarded with numerous possible UID's. My biggest concern prior to my originally contacting Annasmom is that I would be dragging her into emotional areas that she would rather not go. That remains true to this day. Her strength to look at things that anybody would normally want to suppress has been amazing, but we must all continue to respect those limits.

 

[Onebolf]

YOU are one of the strongest women I know... you know your limits and no one is asking any more of you than what you can give. I admire your strength and your determination to find the truth. You're one of my heroes... God bless you.

I have never posted on here before, just a lurker, reader and behind the scenes researcher but really felt the need to second MagicRose99's comment:

From one mother to another, You are one of my heroes and strongest women I know also.....

:blowkiss:

 

[MagicRose99]

I have never posted on here before, just a lurker, reader and behind the scenes researcher but really felt the need to second MagicRose99's comment:

From one mother to another, You are one of my heroes and strongest women I know also.....

:blowkiss:

She's wonderful, isn't she? She's one of the best...

Welcome to the forum, Onebolf!

 

[InterestedNHelping]

I am here for the tough stuff...what I look into, and what I research I feel I do not need to share with the family until something specific comes to light. Dr. Doogie is our go-between for sensitive issues. I continue to do work that is very tough some days, and I take time off, so as to be competent and stable, while drudging through some sad things. It would be very different if I was the mother of a missing child, and I had spent endless energies for 35 years, I would always be sensitive, and try to protect my spirit.
We all need to be sensitive to this fact, since we are investigators of different sorts, and we are sometimes extremely driven in our work, we need caution and compassion first and foremost...and so, we are all here in our own capacities, doing our best...each and every one, for Anna.

 

[Gina_M]

I was hoping to get some feedback on this from Kelly Jolkowski, who as far as I know is the only other parent of a missing child on WebSleuths. Her mailbox is full, however, so I guess I'm on my own.

Annasmom, I've seen Kelly Jolkowski over on MySpace...if you like, I can send her a message over there and let her know you're trying to get in touch with her.

 

[Annasmom]

Annasmom, I've seen Kelly Jolkowski over on MySpace...if you like, I can send her a message over there and let her know you're trying to get in touch with her.

Thank you, Gina. I was just looking for moral support, and you guys certainly gave it to me.