Possible Victim: Valerie Mack, 24, Manorville Jane Doe #6, missing 2000, found Nov 2000 & Gilgo Beach Apr 2011

[inspctrgadget]

Does anyone know the exact date when Maureen's cellphone pinged off of an Oak Beach cell tower? It was like a year after she disappeared.

Never mind, I answered my own question. There was no specific date mentioned for MBB's last known cellphone "ping". I was hoping to try and see what was going on at the SSWA on that date, but no luck. Even with this information, I can't get a sense if this "ping" occurred in 2008 or was only reported to Ms. Cann in 2008. My guess is that its the later, where it took 6 months or so after MBB's disappearance for police to acquire all of the records from the phone companies, only to discover that her last contact with a cell tower was "a few miles from Gilgo Beach." Once police were able to establish her last known location, they sent out a police helicopter to do an aerial search.

Previously I was thinking that the serial killer powered on her phone sometime in 2008, and police were immediately aware of it and scrambled a chopper - I think this is incorrect. My guess is that her phone was with her (and on) when she died in July 2007. This suggest to me that Cedar Beach may be where the slayings of the GB4 take place. There's noone around (unlike Oak Beach and Gilgo Beach). The gates are closed, but you can probably just drive around them or hit a manual "open" button, if you know what you're looking for. Someone who holds events at the Cedar Beach marina, like the SSWA, may even have a key or passcode. If this theory is the case, the crime is nearly perfect. You aren't making the mistake Rifkin did, driving all over the state with a body in the car. You're committing the crime AT THE DUMP SITE!!!

http://nymag.com/news/features/long-island-serial-killer-families-2011-6/index2.html
For three years, the NYPD had reported no trace of her—except, in 2008, for one cell-phone-signal ping off a Long Island tower, just a few miles from Gilgo Beach. “Someone was trying to access Maureen’s cell-phone voice-mail,” Cann says.


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...ial-killer-victims-bond-in-support-group.html
Cann’s sister, Maureen Brainard-Barnes, had gone missing from her Manhattan hotel room nearly three years earlier, in July 2007. Police had subsequently linked her phone activity to a cell phone tower on Long Island. In 2008, police helicopters and cadaver dogs had scoured the same marshy, desolate area, but found no signs of Brainard-Barnes, a sweet-faced brunette with a passion for poetry.

 

[PickleChris]

I could be wrong but I believe I read somewhere that the ping was from a tower in Massapequa?

 

[inspctrgadget]

I could be wrong but I believe I read somewhere that the ping was from a tower in Massapequa?

No, that was MB. MBB on the other hand disappeared in 2007. Police searched with cadaver dogs and helicopters in 2008. That was long before anyone knew that there was a serial killer on the loose.

Apparently they had collected cell tower information that she was last located "just a few miles from Gilgo Beach." It would have taken months to get this information, that's why they didn't search until 2008. There were multiple jurisdictions involved (NYC, Suffolk), you'd need warrants, you'd have to contact multiple cell tower companies, etc.

There are only 2 cell towers on the barrier island, one in W. Gilgo and one in Oak Beach. The distance between these two towers is 7.4 miles. Cedar Beach is halfway between them, a "few miles from Gilgo Beach".

See this map.

Here are the two towers:
http://www.cellreception.com/towers/details.php?id=1267207
http://www.cellreception.com/towers/details.php?id=1237189

And it seems to me like they specifically searched Ocean Parkway. Note:
"In 2008, police helicopters and cadaver dogs had scoured the same marshy, desolate area, but found no signs of Brainard-Barnes..."

I'm thinking MBB may have taken the LIRR to Babylon, been picked up at the station by the killer and taken directly to Cedar Beach, murdered and then dumped literally right there. Being the earliest of the GB4, he probably found her cell phone after the murder and panicked that it might lead police to Cedar Beach (which it apparently did). These parks close their gates at dark. What time was Maureen last heard from in NYC? It probably takes 1 hour to get from NYC to Babylon.

 

[snowstar]

Never mind, I answered my own question. There was no specific date mentioned for MBB's last known cellphone "ping". I was hoping to try and see what was going on at the SSWA on that date, but no luck. Even with this information, I can't get a sense if this "ping" occurred in 2008 or was only reported to Ms. Cann in 2008. My guess is that its the later, where it took 6 months or so after MBB's disappearance for police to acquire all of the records from the phone companies, only to discover that her last contact with a cell tower was "a few miles from Gilgo Beach." Once police were able to establish her last known location, they sent out a police helicopter to do an aerial search.

Previously I was thinking that the serial killer powered on her phone sometime in 2008, and police were immediately aware of it and scrambled a chopper - I think this is incorrect. My guess is that her phone was with her (and on) when she died in July 2007. This suggest to me that Cedar Beach may be where the slayings of the GB4 take place. There's noone around (unlike Oak Beach and Gilgo Beach). The gates are closed, but you can probably just drive around them or hit a manual "open" button, if you know what you're looking for. Someone who holds events at the Cedar Beach marina, like the SSWA, may even have a key or passcode. If this theory is the case, the crime is nearly perfect. You aren't making the mistake Rifkin did, driving all over the state with a body in the car. You're committing the crime AT THE DUMP SITE!!!

http://nymag.com/news/features/long-island-serial-killer-families-2011-6/index2.html
For three years, the NYPD had reported no trace of her—except, in 2008, for one cell-phone-signal ping off a Long Island tower, just a few miles from Gilgo Beach. “Someone was trying to access Maureen’s cell-phone voice-mail,” Cann says.


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...ial-killer-victims-bond-in-support-group.html
Cann’s sister, Maureen Brainard-Barnes, had gone missing from her Manhattan hotel room nearly three years earlier, in July 2007. Police had subsequently linked her phone activity to a cell phone tower on Long Island. In 2008, police helicopters and cadaver dogs had scoured the same marshy, desolate area, but found no signs of Brainard-Barnes, a sweet-faced brunette with a passion for poetry.

On the A&E documentary, it was reported that the last cell phone signal came from Long Island just miles from Oak Beach. No date was given.

 

[Dwntwnslim]

Yo inspctr,

2 questions:

1. Do you know if Jane Doe 2000 was found with her hair intact?
2. Any indication your POI is a practitioner of the geek arts? Or, is even a little bit technologically inclined? (even if he isn't I still like your theory. Same w/ the CM theory.)

Thanks!
slim

 

[dcgrumpy]

Did they specifically say it was a tower on the barrier island? A few miles away could be across the Great South Bay on the "mainland".

 

[inspctrgadget]

Yo inspctr,

2 questions:

1. Do you know if Jane Doe 2000 was found with her hair intact?
2. Any indication your POI is a practitioner of the geek arts? Or, is even a little bit technologically inclined? (even if he isn't I still like your theory. Same w/ the CM theory.)

Thanks!
slim

1. No idea.
2. No idea. But I still haven't seen any evidence that the serial killer is extremely knowledgeable about technology. It's like this, Dwntwn... If you were going to call in a bomb threat to try and get out of a test, how would you do it? You'd think long and hard about it, and probably come up with a disguise, go buy a throwaway cell phone with cash, and then go to a busy location like the mall and make your call. That's about all I see here. He thought about it, then went to busy locations in the city and made his call. I think there was a sexual element to these calls, and he probably went to buy some *advertiser censored* afterwards. I think reading any further into the SK's technical abilities is speculation. That's not to say he doesn't think long and hard before interacting with technology. My guess is too that he visited Craigslist/Backpage from some library or open access PC wearing a disguise. He probably visited these sites days, weeks or even months before he actually called them. He jots down their number and then when he's given it some time, he makes the call. He's using basic (but effective) countermeasures. Not technically sophisticated. Anyone so inclined with an average IQ could have figured this out. The key is being so inclined. You or I would never think of this, because its so outside of our understanding (even as technologists!).

 

[Dwntwnslim]

1. No idea.
2. No idea. But I still haven't seen any evidence that the serial killer is extremely knowledgeable about technology. It's like this, Dwntwn... If you were going to call in a bomb threat to try and get out of a test, how would you do it? You'd think long and hard about it, and probably come up with a disguise, go buy a throwaway cell phone with cash, and then go to a busy location like the mall and make your call. That's about all I see here. He thought about it, then went to busy locations in the city and made his call. I think there was a sexual element to these calls, and he probably went to buy some *advertiser censored* afterwards. I think reading any further into the SK's technical abilities is speculation. That's not to say he doesn't think long and hard before interacting with technology. My guess is too that he visited Craigslist/Backpage from some library or open access PC wearing a disguise. He probably visited these sites days, weeks or even months before he actually called them. He jots down their number and then when he's given it some time, he makes the call. He's using basic (but effective) countermeasures. Not technically sophisticated. Anyone so inclined with an average IQ could have figured this out. The key is being so inclined. You or I would never think of this, because its so outside of our understanding (even as technologists!).

I understand, appreciate and respect your opinion and your logic regarding the technology angle. I am prepared to be wrong in my theory as I have zero experiencing with crime solving. But, until that happens we will have to agree to disagree about this.

Btw, I don't not agree with the notion that some people have that a person has to be super smart to be a tech geek. A person of average intelligence can be a highly effective tech geek. I also don't agree with the profilers who say the perp is "highly intelligent". The perp could be standardized test smart but, I suspect he is of average intelligence (but I'm sure he thinks of himself as super, uber smart) without a lick of common sense.

P.S.

IMHO, a person does not have to be formally trained in technology to be a tech geek either. A person of average intelligence who can read and follow directions can learn all they need to online, from books and/or from other people to be a an effective tech geek.

 

[the quiet girl]

As far as technology is concerned, I think as a whole the curve has been much higher for the average person. In whole we are more technological advanced.
So this may have some to lean towards saying he is a high tech unsub. just my thoughts on this

 

[inspctrgadget]

OK, so let's say the NJ serial killer is the same guy. I'm not convinced, but take a look at this...

Right behind the Golden Key Hotel where the NJ women were all found is the Absecon Bay. Just to the west is a boat launch ramp for accessing the Absecon Bay. We know the SSWA was active in NJ, attending a decoy show only 30 minutes from the Golden Key Motel.

The waterfowl hunting dates in NJ in 2006 were Nov. 4-11, and then again beginning Nov. 23-Jan.22.

Absecon Bay has been KNOWN FOR CENTURIES as a prime waterfowl hunting location.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_Hunting"]Waterfowl hunting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
The St Lawrence River, the coast of Maine, Long island harbors, Barnegat Bay, Great Egg Harbor, Little Egg Harbor, Absecon Bay, Delaware Bay, and Chesapeake Bay have been known for centuries for great waterfowl hunting.

http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/pdf/wmamaps/absecon.pdf
This shows the Absecon Bay wildlife management area (WMA).

http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/artwtrfwl10.htm
This shows that in 2006, the hunting season dates for New Jersey's Coastal Zone (Zone C) were Nov 4 - Nov 11, and then again beginning on Nov 23.

It doesn't seem like there aren't that many public boat ramps with access to Absecon Bay, and I'm wondering if the Black Horse Pike strip is popular for out-of-town duck hunters. Is this strip visible from the Atlantic City Expressway as you're rolling into AC? Can you see "Motel" billboards all over the place? Or do the locals advise out of town duck hunters to stay in Pleasantville and use the Pleasantville boat ramp to launch their duck boats.

The bodies were found on November 22, 2006. They believe that death occurred anywhere from 3 days to 1 month prior. These motels are like $30 per night, and it would make sense to stay there if you're going to be duck hunting for a week or more, maybe scouting some spots a few days prior, staying an extra week or so to hang out in AC.

I think for the typical hunter, this would be far too long to spend hunting, scouting, away from the family. But someone committed, someone who looked at duck hunting like it WAS their job, maybe.


Here's some more info:
http://www.outdoorlife.com/articles/hunting/2007/09/10-great-public-hunts

10. Absecon Bay, New Jersey

Each fall, the tidal flats between Barnegat Light and Atlantic City become the home for more than 50,000 brant. Additionally, up to 25,000 snow geese and thousands of black ducks, mallards and scaup winter here. Public hunting is available on the 42,000-acre Edwin B. Forsythe NWR and several state WMAs. The birds use the refuge's sanctuaries to roost, making daily flights to the salt meadows and estuaries to feed. Access is strictly by boat. A good spread of decoys to match the species you're hunting is important. The public hunting areas have few hunters, perhaps because the casinos and nightlife of Atlantic City are only a stone's throw away.

 

[Seaslug44]

The POI that I have was raised by his mother and grandmother. The grandmother physically and mentally abused her children (his mother and uncle). The abuse by the grandmother included striking her son (POI's uncle) so hard it broke his jaw, and almost drowning her daughter (POI's mother) in a toilet bowl as punishment.

My understanding is that SKs often come from homes where the father has left or is inconsequential in the SK's life, and the mother is domineering and abusive.

I'm wondering if the grandmother's behavior was replicated by his mother, given that his uncle went on to a history of sexual and mental abuse that ultimately resulted in his own murder by his own child (POI's 1st cousin). Or if the underlying "domineering woman" in this POI's life wasn't the mother, but rather the grandmother.

He also lives 3-5 min from one of the dump sites.

I (and many others) would love to help you sleuth your POI but without any hint as to who he is there is no way we can assist you.

 

[truthspider]

The poi .......

Just wanted to share these pics with you IG, I saw this vehicle the other day and had to laugh as it made me think of the new Duck Hunting angle.

The stickers I like best are:

"Hooked on Quack"

"If it flies it dies"

"Will Duck hunt for food"

"Commercial Fishing is not just a sport"

and

"The Decoy"

:floorlaugh:

 

[Lera213]

Could this be Jane Doe # 6?

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/k/kirschhoch_claudia.html

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/... Long Island Murders -NY-/92011JaneDoe-6.jpg

weight and age is correct and she had a tattoo of a phoenix on her right hip

 

[Lera213]

suppose she was disoriented and someone bought her a ticket to NY? Or some how she got back to ny with the perp?

 

[inspctrgadget]

Does anyone have any links to research or studies that look at the "typical" family life of a serial killer?

I'm specifically interested in learning about the role of "mothers" or "female figures" in the serial killer's youth. I understand generally that they come from homes where (1) the father has left or is inconsequential and (2) they have a "domineering mother". I'd also be interested in scenarios where the "domination" comes from a female other than a mother, such as a grandmother.

My basic understanding is that the killer has feelings of worthlessness as a result of the abuse, and in order to alleviate those feelings he fantasizes about violence towards women (with the victim as a replacement for the original abuser). These fantasies eventually culminate in murder, which temporarily relieves the original feelings of worthlessness.

I've read some stuff, but it all seems kind of general. I'm looking to understand the specific types of abuse that the child suffers.

Is it?
- Sexual
- Verbal
- Mental (i.e., strange discipline, bizarre rules)
- Physical

Any case studies or specific examples of a "domineering" mother or "grandmother"?

 

[waltzingmatilda]

inspectr, google and Wikipedia would be a good place to start.

IIRC Dahmer was raised by mother/ grandmother, Gacy still lived with his mother, Bundy was raised by his mother/grandmother, Herb Baumeister's wife and kids would go stay at his mothers lake cabin but I don't reacall reading anything about a father.

I am drawing from memory so consider this MOO!

wm

 

[inspctrgadget]

inspectr, google and Wikipedia would be a good place to start.

IIRC Dahmer was raised by mother/ grandmother, Gacy still lived with his mother, Bundy was raised by his mother/grandmother, Herb Baumeister's wife and kids would go stay at his mothers lake cabin but I don't reacall reading anything about a father.

I am drawing from memory so consider this MOO!

wm

Thanks for the cases, I'll take a closer look at those.

I guess more specifically I'm also looking for research that looks at serial killers in general and finds a common link related to the role of a "domineering" woman in the serial killer's youth.

Of course I've tried Google and Wikipedia, but the reality is that there's so much garbage out there about serial killers, it's hard to wade through.

I'm hoping someone here has a reputable source or study that they're familiar with related to the role of women in a serial killer's youth.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Throw a couple names my way and I'll be happy to assist you in research, if you'd like some help.

wm

 

[Just K]

Does anyone have any links to research or studies that look at the "typical" family life of a serial killer?

I'm specifically interested in learning about the role of "mothers" or "female figures" in the serial killer's youth. I understand generally that they come from homes where (1) the father has left or is inconsequential and (2) they have a "domineering mother". I'd also be interested in scenarios where the "domination" comes from a female other than a mother, such as a grandmother.

My basic understanding is that the killer has feelings of worthlessness as a result of the abuse, and in order to alleviate those feelings he fantasizes about violence towards women (with the victim as a replacement for the original abuser). These fantasies eventually culminate in murder, which temporarily relieves the original feelings of worthlessness.

I've read some stuff, but it all seems kind of general. I'm looking to understand the specific types of abuse that the child suffers.

Is it?
- Sexual
- Verbal
- Mental (i.e., strange discipline, bizarre rules)
- Physical

Any case studies or specific examples of a "domineering" mother or "grandmother"?

Haddon Clark. Interestingly enough his family created him and his murdering older brother as well.

There is an in depth article in the Washington Post which describes the family history. "

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Hello inspectr!

I did a little research this am for those killers with possible mother issues.

So far I've learned that Gein, Kemper, Manson, & Bundy had mother/grandmother issues.

Gacy had daddy issues. I haven't been thru the whole list yet.

Here's a link and click on the name for info.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/notorious/index.html

Your post made me stop and think....
I have a former student who is now serving time as a serial rapist. There was no mother or father in his life and he lived with grandma. At age 8 he showed contempt towards women (me) and I was grateful that my teaching partner was a male. His behavior was antisocial as he was either withdrawn or acting out in some way. (This was a self contained classroom for behaviorly and emotionally handicapped children with only 8 students.) I recall thinking to myself back then that I'd be reading about him in the paper one of these days as he was very volatile, like a time bomb waiting to go off! It's too bad because he was a cute and smart lil kid and he could be very charming at times. I wonder if teachers of serial killers noticed signs when they were children? Here's a link of some serial killers pics as children.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/photogallery/killers-as-kids.html?curPhoto=1

wm