Post sentencing discussion and the upcoming appeal

[foxbluff]

If OP’s anger/control issues flared regularly in public, can you imagine what he’s like in private - what he was like with Reeva?

No wonder poor Frankie was MIA the night of Feb 14 - he was probably terrified of OP.

I recall that Sam testified that OP had yelled at his young male friend Alex. At that point, I had assumed it was only women that he yelled at. I'll bet my last nickel that he never yelled at Justin Divaris.

I can understand why Frank would put up with being treated rudely, but why on earth did Reeva??

 

[G.bng]

I'm surprised the author doesn't pick out the use of the word "scream".

What Pistorius is describing is not screaming - it is shouting. At every point, he says he is using words to convey a message ("get out of my house", "call the police" etc). This is not screaming. Screaming is usually wordless and stems from desperation and terror, or shock. It is different from yelling out orders.

Of course he used the word "scream" because Reeva was screaming and he needed to convince everyone that any "screaming" came from him.

You don't think that might be stretching it a tad?! The Oxford Dictionary would certainly beg to differ with your, "This is not screaming", since albeit the first most common usage listed (1) is exactly as you say, the second most common usage (1.1) is entirely appropriate to how OP and we all use it, at least everyone I know, and which is exactly as you say it isn't, i.e., "to convey a message". And Merriam-Webster, I believe the equivalent to the Oxford dictionary in the US, is if anything a tad clearer:

Courtesy of the online Oxford Dictionary:

1. Give a long, loud, piercing cry or cries expressing extreme emotion or pain: 'they could hear him screaming in pain'
(as adjective screaming) 'a harassed mum with a screaming child'

1.1 [REPORTING VERB] Cry something in a high-pitched, frenzied way:
[NO OBJECT]: 'I ran to the house screaming for help'
[WITH DIRECT SPEECH]: ‘Get out!’ he screamed
[WITH OBJECT]: 'he screamed abuse down the phone'

1.2 Urgently and vociferously call attention to one’s views or feelings, especially ones of anger or distress :
[WITH CLAUSE]: 'his supporters scream that he is being done an injustice'
[FIGURATIVE] 'the creative side of me is screaming out for attention'

Doesn't the example used for 'DIRECT SPEECH' (in bold), "Get out" sound so familiar! I'd even say some of the explanations and examples proffered are quite uncanny!

Courtesy of the Mirriam-Webster online Dictionary:

1. Scream - verb - \ˈskrēm\
: to suddenly cry out in a loud and high voice because of pain, surprise, etc.
: to say (something) in a loud and high voice because you are angry, afraid, etc.
: to make a very loud, high sound

And MW's second most common usage also sounds so familiar!

I see you did note "screaming is usually wordless", just maybe not quite as "usually" as your post seems to imply.
jmho

 

[44ALLAN]

You don't think that might be stretching it a tad?! The Oxford Dictionary would certainly beg to differ with your, "This is not screaming", since albeit the first most common usage listed (1) is exactly as you say, the second most common usage (1.1) is entirely appropriate to how OP and we all use it, at least everyone I know, and which is exactly as you say it isn't, i.e., "to convey a message". And Merriam-Webster, I believe the equivalent to the Oxford dictionary in the US, is if anything a tad clearer:

Courtesy of the online Oxford Dictionary:


Doesn't the example used for 'DIRECT SPEECH' (in bold), "Get out" sound so familiar! I'd even say some of the explanations and examples proffered are quite uncanny!

Courtesy of the Mirriam-Webster online Dictionary:

And MW's second most common usage also sounds so familiar!

I see you did note "screaming is usually wordless", just maybe not quite as "usually" as your post seems to imply.
jmho

Good post and I agree.

Can you answer my earlier post to you I think you missed it..................no problems if you don't want to of course entirely up to you but I'm interested in your thoughts especially after the previous post.
TIA and I can re-post if you missed it

 

[Cherwell]

You don't think that might be stretching it a tad?! The Oxford Dictionary would certainly beg to differ with your, "This is not screaming", since albeit the first most common usage listed (1) is exactly as you say, the second most common usage (1.1) is entirely appropriate to how OP and we all use it, at least everyone I know, and which is exactly as you say it isn't, i.e., "to convey a message". And Merriam-Webster, I believe the equivalent to the Oxford dictionary in the US, is if anything a tad clearer:

Courtesy of the online Oxford Dictionary:


Doesn't the example used for 'DIRECT SPEECH' (in bold), "Get out" sound so familiar! I'd even say some of the explanations and examples proffered are quite uncanny!

Courtesy of the Mirriam-Webster online Dictionary:

And MW's second most common usage also sounds so familiar!

I see you did note "screaming is usually wordless", just maybe not quite as "usually" as your post seems to imply.
jmho

You clearly put a lot of time into all this, but sadly you missed the point I was making.
Did you read the articles referred to? They focused on Pistorius' choice of words and phraseology, and what this may reveal.
The point is that he chose the word "scream" where he could have used others, eg shout, yell, etc.
HTH

 

[Cherwell]

Czech fugitive Radovan Krejcir .................................
"I experience these actions as a personal attack directed to me and believe this to be an infringement on my human and constitutional rights, not to mention that these actions are unfounded, unfair and psychological and emotional torture," he wrote.
"This complaint should not be construed as an attitude of disrespect and or aimed as a personal attack on the members of this facility, however, I trust that you would appreciate the inhumane manner in which I am treated."

What exactly is this 'person' in jail for ?.

Is he being 'heard' because he has money?
What about the 'human rights' and 'inhumane manner' the other poor/penniless inmates are going through and being treated?
They and him are all in there for a reason IMO.
So can someone please send him a text and tell him to do his time for being a miscreant and STFU cos we ain't listening...............you too Oscar stop with the sobbing and wailing ffs you'll be out by xmas..................................2029.
I can hear your pitiful wailing from here in the UK fgs.....................just like Reeva's screams when you executed her !

This man is on remand, and has not actually been convicted of anything yet as far as I know. His trial has been delayed for quite a while.

Judge Colin Lamont has run out of patience because of the perpetual delays and postponements characterising the trial of Czech fugitive, Radovan Krejcir.

Krejcir and his co-accused will only be back in the dock at the earliest in June next year. They face charges of dealing in drugs, attempted murder and kidnapping.

http://www.sabc.co.za/news/a/b5df690045db0187862df69709b21094/More-delays-in-Krejcir-trial-20141610

 

[G.bng]

Good post and I agree.

Can you answer my earlier post to you I think you missed it..................no problems if you don't want to of course entirely up to you but I'm interested in your thoughts especially after the previous post.
TIA and I can re-post if you missed it

Thanks. Very gracious.

I remember a post of yours a few days ago I was in the process of drafting a reply to along with another or two, (several questions if it's the same post you're referring to), but I lost the drafts yesterday with a system crash, refresh, or whatever, so if you repost or give the page number I will try to reply if I can recall still what I was going to say since it came on the back of other posts I believe so I may need to read back a bit.

 

[jilly]

I've been trying to delve into Oscar's psyche. I want to understand the why of who he is. It just didn't seem complete that he could simply be labelled as a Narcissist or Sociopath. It's always nagged at me that maybe Oscar's mother took the wrong route in the way she raised Oscar........things that she told him regarding his disability. I'm certainly not blaming her because I'm sure, as all mothers, we do the best we can. It always seemed to me that there should have been a bit more nurturing with his horrendous disability. Of course, I'm only going by what I've read and what Oscar, himself, has said about his mother. Seems to me, you just can't ignore the disability especially one like Oscar's. So I did some googling and came across this article:

http://www.timeslive.co.za/ilive/20...-and-psychology-of-poor-oscar-pistorius-ilive

.......There must be something very rewarding about having such a mother. She commanded he be normal, she made him fit in, she got him to play rugby at school. What a miracle-worker. And how he loved her. How well he must have known from the start not to disappoint her! Indeed such early machismo, such a hard-headed denial of reality, such determination, may be just the way to create a world-beating champion. And so it came to pass
But there may also be something deeply damaging about such an upbringing, such a hard-headed denial of reality, so little chance to weep or mourn the absence of limbs or feel afraid because of their loss. To be denied being disappointed, even angry, at what you – as a fact – cannot do, or could never do with ease.......

Why Oscar treated women the way he did, is a mystery. Take Samantha, who he punished by making her sit on a stair.

On top of it all, we have fame and fortune and a bunch of enablers around him. He never had to be accountable for his poor behavior.

I believe that Reeva was the first person that ever stood up to him and he just couldn't handle it. He 'lost it' that nite and now he is suffering the consequences.

I believe he needs serious psychological treatment and with his family and all that money, I believe that they should come to terms with this and get him the medical treatment that he so desperately needs. I'm not cheerleading for Oscar. I just believe he's very very sick.

 

[MsMarple]

Does anyone else think that if Nel had not boldly stated in his closing arguments that if the sentence was too light, the public might take justice into its own hands, Masipa would have felt free to hand down a non-custodial (non)sentence?

RSBM

<raises hand>

I think Masipa's pump was primed to do exactly that from the very beginning. In her attempt to be “merciful” to Oscar (don't punish him twice and all her other rot) she failed to acknowledge justice for Reeva – who “was good in front of a camera.”

All she really accomplished was to shine the spotlight on Oscar brighter and hotter. No more talk of tears and remorse – now it's down to what the law says about men who gun down women in their home.

 

[JudgeJudi]

You don't think that might be stretching it a tad?! The Oxford Dictionary would certainly beg to differ with your, "This is not screaming", since albeit the first most common usage listed (1) is exactly as you say, the second most common usage (1.1) is entirely appropriate to how OP and we all use it, at least everyone I know, and which is exactly as you say it isn't, i.e., "to convey a message". And Merriam-Webster, I believe the equivalent to the Oxford dictionary in the US, is if anything a tad clearer:

Courtesy of the online Oxford Dictionary:


Doesn't the example used for 'DIRECT SPEECH' (in bold), "Get out" sound so familiar! I'd even say some of the explanations and examples proffered are quite uncanny!

Courtesy of the Mirriam-Webster online Dictionary:

And MW's second most common usage also sounds so familiar!

I see you did note "screaming is usually wordless", just maybe not quite as "usually" as your post seems to imply.
jmho

Is this now an English masterclass? Individuals can use words in different ways other than those defined in a dictionary. Sometimes “screamed” can be used in lieu of “shouted” but I believe most people would be more likely to use it in an entirely different context to shouting, e.g. “I shouted at him to put the weapon down. He then stabbed me and I screamed in pain”. In this example you could possibly substitute screamed for shouted, however you wouldn’t shout in pain. Shouting tends to be more a voluntary action but if you look at all the definitions of screaming, they’re usually associated with fear or pain and would be far more likely to be involuntary.

I agree with Cherwell that shouting involves words, but I also agree that screaming can be used with or without words. However, we’re talking about OP and this trial and the context in which he used “screaming”. I believe he’s shouting at her to “get the *advertiser censored** out of my house” and she was screaming in fear as he was going ballistic with the bat. JMO

Just for fun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB-e1PkdrCc

and on a more serious note:
http://www.2oceansvibe.com/2014/03/...ly-possible-for-a-man-to-scream-like-a-woman/

 

[JudgeJudi]

I just heard a number of very low-flying choppers go straight over our house. We have an out of control bushfire 9 minutes' drive from our home. The temp at the moment is 38C (100.4F). See y'all later.

ETA: Now declared an emergency. Aircrane being used. When it flies over our house, it returns in 3 minutes. Moving down our way. Fingers crossed.

 

[ColonelMustard]

Here you go Colonel:

She has been following me for a long time on Instagram (a photo-sharing system on Twitter) and knows exactly where I am and everything going on in my relationship with Oscar,” she said.

http://www.2oceansvibe.com/2012/11/...-the-place-over-this-fhm-model/#ixzz3IwUSbNz8

So, hey, thanks for this, Judge, I really appreciate it!

From that link:

Taylor initially told City Press Reeva is dating one of Pistorius’ friends, and later said the model was fully aware of what had happened in her and Oscar’s relationship.

“She has been following me for a long time on Instagram (a photo-sharing system on Twitter) and knows exactly where I am and everything going on in my relationship with Oscar,” she said.


Does anyone here have any experience with Instagram? I have no idea how it even works. How exactly would ST know that Reeva was "stalking" her there?

On the topic, in general, does anyone here have any...

Thoughts?
Reflections?
Ideas?
Speculation?

...or is the whole thing complete nonsense - the fruit of ST's heartbroken/jealous heart?

 

[ColonelMustard]

I just heard a number of very low-flying choppers go straight over our house. We have an out of control bushfire 9 minutes' drive from our home. The temp at the moment is 38C (100.4F). See y'all later.

ETA: Now declared an emergency. Aircrane being used. When it flies over our house, it returns in 3 minutes. Moving down our way. Fingers crossed.

:devil: (I KNEW one of these had fire in it!)

 

[ColonelMustard]

I've got a "Who's Who" question.

Roll back up to post #805. Exactly who is the dark-haired woman with the glasses?

For no good reason, I have always assumed she was Sheila's, OP's mom's sister.

 

[ColonelMustard]

O/T Nico Henning trial
I hope the mods don&#8217;t mind but it's so terribly quiet here and this really looks like an interesting trial. I asked Bessie if she could open a new trial for it but said I&#8217;d wait and see if it got a start and then let her know. In any event, I won&#8217;t mention this matter again until it's ready to go. Until then I'll post a few more links so you can have a heads-up . You can also get onto You Tube - "Nico Henning" - and get to see the people involved.

Barry Bateman retweeted
EWN Reporter @ewnreporter &#8226; 30m 30 minutes ago

#ChanelleHenning Nel now tells magistrate that he has the indictment. Ask for a postponement for 15th of January.
ML

Nel wants to have this matter transferred to the High Court. The reason for the delay I believe is that further investigations are still underway. I've been researching this matter and apparently it's huge in SA.

Barry Bateman was one of the first on the scene. &#8220;It was the beginning of an almost unbelievable tale about a young mother, her estranged husband twice her age, a crooked cop, a drug addict, a former Nigerian Olympian-turned bouncer and the husband's hired private investigator. Bruyns refused to comment on widespread speculation that his client was the prime suspect in the shooting that has transfixed the nation". Nico is a multimillionaire.
http://ewn.co.za/2012/11/08/OPINION-Chanelle-Henning-a-year-after-her-murder

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/i-don-t-know-why-she-was-killed-1.1181935#.VGRtFixxnBx

A very comprehensive outline of the story is to be found on Facebook, Remembrance for Chanelle Henning in the second entry dated 25 November 2013 &#8230; &#8220;See more&#8221;
https://www.facebook.com/pages/In-Remembrance-of-Chanelle-Henning/296024703754811

I'm all up for Nico.

Where Nel goes, I'll follow.

My question is, who do we call to get the thing televised?


For some reason, when I think about this case, I'm reminded of the American murder of Shelia Bellush. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheila_Bellush

Behind Mansion Walls "The Hired Help":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAZOHlCl-gU&spfreload=10

 

[emirates1957]

I'm all up for Nico.

Where Nel goes, I'll follow.

My question is, who do we call to get the thing televised? I think SA needs a full-time Court TV channel.

Count me in.

 

[G.bng]

I just heard a number of very low-flying choppers go straight over our house. We have an out of control bushfire 9 minutes' drive from our home. The temp at the moment is 38C (100.4F). See y'all later.

ETA: Now declared an emergency. Aircrane being used. When it flies over our house, it returns in 3 minutes. Moving down our way. Fingers crossed.

Keep safe... I know forest fires and they can get out of hand too quick. Please don't leave it till the last minute... I'd be lost without you to keep coming back at me! :&#9679;)

 

[G.bng]

So, hey, thanks for this, Judge, I really appreciate it!

From that link:

Taylor initially told City Press Reeva is dating one of Pistorius&#8217; friends, and later said the model was fully aware of what had happened in her and Oscar&#8217;s relationship.

&#8220;She has been following me for a long time on Instagram (a photo-sharing system on Twitter) and knows exactly where I am and everything going on in my relationship with Oscar,&#8221; she said.


Does anyone here have any experience with Instagram? I have no idea how it even works. How exactly would ST know that Reeva was "stalking" her there?

On the topic, in general, does anyone here have any...

Thoughts?
Reflections?
Ideas?
Speculation?

...or is the whole thing complete nonsense - the fruit of ST's heartbroken/jealous heart?

Thoughts? Reflections?

Mmmm... let me think... oh, I know one; Not to believe her book?... Ooooops, silly me, it's not her book it's her mum's!

 

[jay-jay]

I can understand why Frank would put up with being treated rudely, but why on earth did Reeva??

Well, if it is true what many of us believe happened that night, she clearly wasn't going to put up with it any longer, and was about to leave him. The problem with these types of Jeckyll and Hyde characters is that you are drawn in by them because of their nice soft, caring side and often their wit and intelligence (not sure that applies in OP's case .. but Reeva did mention him being clever once, and she seemed to be very struck by him because of that), and then when they start getting nasty, you can't quite believe it, so you keep on giving them the benefit of the doubt until such time as you realise that you're not imagining it, and this is what they are really like. But give her some credit, she was only with him for 3 months and it seems she was most likely leaving him that night because she'd had enough.

This is one of the things people in general need to learn about abusive relationships and how you can't just say 'why didn't she leave him' .. there are all sorts of reasons why women don't, or are not able to (especially if they are not financially independent) .. and imo, the question shouldn't even need to be asked, not if people fully understand these types of relationships.


Edit: just to add .. it's a known fact that in abusive, violent, relationships .. the most dangerous time for the woman is when she is about to leave the relationship. This is known by all the DV support agencies. Hence another reason why many women just do not feel they are able to leave, i.e. because they feel their life may be in danger if they do try to attempt it.

 

[jay-jay]

So, hey, thanks for this, Judge, I really appreciate it!

From that link:

Taylor initially told City Press Reeva is dating one of Pistorius&#8217; friends, and later said the model was fully aware of what had happened in her and Oscar&#8217;s relationship.

&#8220;She has been following me for a long time on Instagram (a photo-sharing system on Twitter) and knows exactly where I am and everything going on in my relationship with Oscar,&#8221; she said.


Does anyone here have any experience with Instagram? I have no idea how it even works. How exactly would ST know that Reeva was "stalking" her there?

On the topic, in general, does anyone here have any...

Thoughts?
Reflections?
Ideas?
Speculation?

...or is the whole thing complete nonsense - the fruit of ST's heartbroken/jealous heart?

I've been using messageboards for about 10 years now, and if I had a pound for every time I saw someone accusing another person of 'stalking' them, then I would be a rich person .. sometimes it can be a serious case of being stalked (I've known people who have had someone who has stalked them over the boards, turn up at the school gates when they've gone to pick their children up) but that's very rare, and most of the other cases of 'stalking' are not really that serious, it's just how people are on the internet and social media and quite often, people will use the 'stalking' comment to make another person come across as some kind of weirdo in front of everyone else. On the internet, or social media, you can say all sorts of things about another person which may or may not be true, but once that seed is planted in people's minds, it's very difficult to get rid of .. so when people go around accusing other people of 'stalking' etc, etc, it's best just to be a bit sceptical about it as it might just be someone trying to make the other person look bad, and even if they are being 'stalked', it's not quite the same as being properly stalked in real life .. and quite honestly, if you're going to be on social media and post all about your life without using any of the privacy features, then anyone can look at everything you are posting .. so if you're worried about people seeing everything you do in life, then don't post it all over the internet for everyone to see! With facebook, you can set the privacy settings quite tight, so that only your friends/people you want to see your photos/status updates, etc can see them .. I don't think that is the case with Twitter and Instagram, but that is the nature of those things and the whole point of them is that you can be 'followed' :facepalm:

 

[Interested Bystander]

I just heard a number of very low-flying choppers go straight over our house. We have an out of control bushfire 9 minutes' drive from our home. The temp at the moment is 38C (100.4F). See y'all later.

ETA: Now declared an emergency. Aircrane being used. When it flies over our house, it returns in 3 minutes. Moving down our way. Fingers crossed.

So sorry to hear this Judi. Keep yourselves and doglet safe.