Post sentencing discussion and the upcoming appeal
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emirates1957
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That reminds me - when Des Moran (Tuppence) was murdered outside an Ascot Vale coffee shop - they were selling straight coffees "3 shots for tuppence".
Glad to hear JJ you are okay after the recent fires.
KarenUK
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Wow. And I thought the book was crass!
But it's not all just about whether someone is financially dependent or not .. that link I gave to Refuge lists a whole load of things as to why women do not, or are not able to, leave their partners .. and it's not quite as simple as just dumping someone the first time they 'diss' you, especially not when the better side of their Jekyll and Hyde character has drawn you in in the first place .. you can't quite believe it yourself that such a lovely, warm and caring person can be quite so nasty .. so you try and kid yourself that it was only a one off, that things will get better, etc.
Also, as I said before, if many of us are right in what we believe happened that night, Reeva was trying to leave him .. and as I said before, she'd only been with him 3 months so that is not bad going to try and get out of a relationship like that. I also tried to explain that leaving a violent partner is the most dangerous time for the woman, so it's not quite as easy as saying 'just dump them' .. for that is the moment when a violent partner will pull out all the stops. Which is why I, and many others, believe Reeva was about to leave him that night, and that is what violent men like him do when their partner wants to leave the relationship. It's a well known fact.
Edit: .. just to add, I myself was/am financially independent (and quite feisty with it, too .. so the myth about women only getting into that kind of relationship is because they are weak, is just a complete myth) but it didn't stop me from becoming a victim of domestic abuse, and it didn't stop my ex partner from breaking into my house and trashing it while I was out. All these myths really need to be dispelled, and that is why I posted the link from Refuge because it explains it all.
ColonelMustard
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A couple of thoughts:
1. Thanks to all for sharing thoughts on the ST, "Reeva stalking me online" issue/rumor. I suppose it's equally likely that the press created that idea themselves. The recent clickbait article based on the joke/cartoon of OP escaping his home monitoring ankle bracelet by simply taking off his legs and leaving them there, was picked up and repeated all over the place.
2. I'm typing with one hand. My cat insists on sitting in my lap and putting his paw on top of my hand while I type, which drives me NUTS. So, I have to use my other hand to hold his down, the little (big) minx!
3. I really hated it when, in the sentence, Masipa said something - and ONLY that about Reeva - being pretty and looking good in front of a camera. Insulting and dismissive in it's brevity and sole focus.
3.5 Given the dangerous and serious nature of the fire bearing down on your home, Judge, it was insensitive of me only to respond to that post by sharing a little fire thingy. It's meaning was, I hear you on that, and care enough to track it down so I could dare it with you. They say a picture says a thousand words. Well, not always.
That a huge blaze could be that close to your home is just insane. I wondered where exactly you lived and couldn't remember, or I would have google earthed it to see in real time what was going on. Unless it's in the US, I don't find out about fires elsewhere in the world. Half the times, I don't even know what's going on here.
Anyway, I can't even imagine what it would be like to have to worry about fires. Awhile back, my garage burned to ground [with my (beloved) auto inside] but that was vandals. Other than crime, the only natural disasters we have to worry about are tornados, but which have never come downtown. Maybe the skyscrapers block them. I don't know. The occasional sirens and weekly testing in the warm months are enough to give me a heart attack.
Just in case of disaster, I'm well insured and have gone through my home thoroughly videotaping everything I see and opening drawers, etc, in case I ever have to declare all my worldly goods, which, of all things, I keep in a fireproof safe. Well, that brings me full circle in my expanded explanation/ apology, Judge.
4. And last, but HARDLY least, WELCOME, Starmelody!
Others of you that may be out there reading only who are, perhaps, hesitant to jump in, here - you should really think about taking the plunge and joining us in the typing sunlight while things are fairly quiet and calm.
There are very few of us still here, right now, and the pace is hardly as frenetic as it has often been during the trial during which one crazy thing has followed the next for as long as it's been underway. Right now, you can confidently come forth and say anything and ask anything, you want to.
Most posters on WS don't bite - and are, instead, very supportive of one another. Ocacasionally, since I joined earlier this year, I have suspected that there may have been one or two posters who seem to be merely provocateurs but even they have a role to play - even if it's mainly to increase a few blood pressure readings, here!!
Thanks to everyone for everything! And from somewhere - maybe (probably) even from here for gosh sakes (and if it were a woman, such as me, it would be a perfect reflection of how I feel), I share ...
1. Thanks to all for sharing thoughts on the ST, "Reeva stalking me online" issue/rumor. I suppose it's equally likely that the press created that idea themselves. The recent clickbait article based on the joke/cartoon of OP escaping his home monitoring ankle bracelet by simply taking off his legs and leaving them there, was picked up and repeated all over the place.
2. I'm typing with one hand. My cat insists on sitting in my lap and putting his paw on top of my hand while I type, which drives me NUTS. So, I have to use my other hand to hold his down, the little (big) minx!
3. I really hated it when, in the sentence, Masipa said something - and ONLY that about Reeva - being pretty and looking good in front of a camera. Insulting and dismissive in it's brevity and sole focus.
3.5 Given the dangerous and serious nature of the fire bearing down on your home, Judge, it was insensitive of me only to respond to that post by sharing a little fire thingy. It's meaning was, I hear you on that, and care enough to track it down so I could dare it with you. They say a picture says a thousand words. Well, not always.
That a huge blaze could be that close to your home is just insane. I wondered where exactly you lived and couldn't remember, or I would have google earthed it to see in real time what was going on. Unless it's in the US, I don't find out about fires elsewhere in the world. Half the times, I don't even know what's going on here.
Anyway, I can't even imagine what it would be like to have to worry about fires. Awhile back, my garage burned to ground [with my (beloved) auto inside] but that was vandals. Other than crime, the only natural disasters we have to worry about are tornados, but which have never come downtown. Maybe the skyscrapers block them. I don't know. The occasional sirens and weekly testing in the warm months are enough to give me a heart attack.
Just in case of disaster, I'm well insured and have gone through my home thoroughly videotaping everything I see and opening drawers, etc, in case I ever have to declare all my worldly goods, which, of all things, I keep in a fireproof safe. Well, that brings me full circle in my expanded explanation/ apology, Judge.
4. And last, but HARDLY least, WELCOME, Starmelody!
Others of you that may be out there reading only who are, perhaps, hesitant to jump in, here - you should really think about taking the plunge and joining us in the typing sunlight while things are fairly quiet and calm.
There are very few of us still here, right now, and the pace is hardly as frenetic as it has often been during the trial during which one crazy thing has followed the next for as long as it's been underway. Right now, you can confidently come forth and say anything and ask anything, you want to.
Most posters on WS don't bite - and are, instead, very supportive of one another. Ocacasionally, since I joined earlier this year, I have suspected that there may have been one or two posters who seem to be merely provocateurs but even they have a role to play - even if it's mainly to increase a few blood pressure readings, here!!
Thanks to everyone for everything! And from somewhere - maybe (probably) even from here for gosh sakes (and if it were a woman, such as me, it would be a perfect reflection of how I feel), I share ...
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ColonelMustard
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Sadly, I don't think Masipa cared very much what Reeva's cousin was saying. She just wanted to rush Nel and get the trial over with.
Speaking of rushing, Masipa seems to take a month to decide and comment on almost everything. Will it take her a month to decide whether to grant the Request for Appeal?
I hope not - nor another decision possibly /probably ghost written by
https://www.facebook.com/janette.henzendutoit
D
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I found this to remember:
JudgeJudi
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<Respectfully snipped>
Firstly Colonel, I love your cartoon. You do feel like you're talking with friends and you know some of their personalities so well to the point where you can almost anticipate what many are going to say or how they'll respond.
2. Oooh, how cute. I love "holding hands" with my little doglet (Pomeranian). It might drive you crazy but you wouldn't have it any other way, now would you?
3. My sentiments too. Was it because he was a SA icon and Reeva only a model? Who is Masipa to judge ... oh, that's right, she is the judge, and a biased, incompetent one at that IMO.
3.5 Please Colonel, no offence was taken at all. I love your humour and I've never heard you say anything insensitive to anyone. When I first heard of it, hours before I posted, it was only 2 hectares (5 acres) but growing very fast. At the moment it's burnt out 120 hectares (300 acres). The fire's contained for the moment so hakuna matata. Each year NSW hires 2 Erickson air-cranes from the US. This year we have Ichabod and next month Gypsy Lady will commence operations. I think we're lucky to have these two because ... we could have had THE HULK. OMG wouldn't that be a scream. :floorlaugh:
We're fully insured and, like you, have videotaped everything exactly the same way as you.
You get tornadoes? We see them every year on TV during the season and they look absolutely terrifying. I hope you have a basement to seek refuge in.
4. And welcome from me too Starmelody. Great opening posts.
Firstly Colonel, I love your cartoon. You do feel like you're talking with friends and you know some of their personalities so well to the point where you can almost anticipate what many are going to say or how they'll respond.
2. Oooh, how cute. I love "holding hands" with my little doglet (Pomeranian). It might drive you crazy but you wouldn't have it any other way, now would you?
3. My sentiments too. Was it because he was a SA icon and Reeva only a model? Who is Masipa to judge ... oh, that's right, she is the judge, and a biased, incompetent one at that IMO.
3.5 Please Colonel, no offence was taken at all. I love your humour and I've never heard you say anything insensitive to anyone. When I first heard of it, hours before I posted, it was only 2 hectares (5 acres) but growing very fast. At the moment it's burnt out 120 hectares (300 acres). The fire's contained for the moment so hakuna matata. Each year NSW hires 2 Erickson air-cranes from the US. This year we have Ichabod and next month Gypsy Lady will commence operations. I think we're lucky to have these two because ... we could have had THE HULK. OMG wouldn't that be a scream. :floorlaugh:
We're fully insured and, like you, have videotaped everything exactly the same way as you.
You get tornadoes? We see them every year on TV during the season and they look absolutely terrifying. I hope you have a basement to seek refuge in.
4. And welcome from me too Starmelody. Great opening posts.
Cherwell
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I think that's in poor taste. At least they didn't try to sell anything in Reeva's name.
Lux et Veritas
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I know, huh? And even more great if RK really, really does not like women-killers ... he takes serious offense. Unlike OP, even the mafias code of honor says you dont harm women.
Lux et Veritas
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You’re not alone, Jilly - I’m fascinated with OP’s psyche, too!
Contrary to what the author thinks, IMHO, there was no “hard-headed denial of reality” involved in OP's upbringing. Quite the opposite - Sheila (and all her kids) met reality head-on from day one. She never “commanded” his normalcy, she never “made” him fit in (how does a parent do that?) - he simply was normal and fit in all on his own. She rightly never coddled him, never allowed him to wallow in his condition, never allowed him to view it as anything other than normal for HIM, never allowed him to cry over his differentness (why would he - it was normal!). She never allowed him to view it as a disadvantage and most importantly, never allowed him to use it as an excuse, either for pity or preference. Had she done those things, she would have done a huge, debilitating disservice to him.
Unlike older children and adults who’ve lost limbs (i.e. MIT’s Hugh Herr, Natalie de Toit, etc.) - Oscar has never known anything other than his stumps and prosthetics, from 11 months and 17 months respectively. (What does anyone remember from that age? Nothing!) His life was 100% “normal”, as he had nothing different to compare it to, so could never have felt “deprived”. “Normality” is always subjective, both personally and culturally.
By all accounts I’ve read, OP was a self-propelled rocket from the word go. LOL No one could stop him or slow him down, a trait that many able-bodied kids also have. IMHO, whatever went wrong or right in OP’s life had very little or nothing to do with his disability. Had he not taken up athletics (totally on a fluke), he no doubt would have been a success in life in some other area(s). There’s every chance, had he been able-bodied, he still would have been just as fast and successful on the track - he clearly had the genetics, mental attitude, drive and support.
By all accounts, OP was a very popular, very well-liked kid in school, both by teachers and students. He participated in ALL activities, was treated exactly like everyone else. He was always first to throw off his legs and jump into the pool, no sport was off-limits - even rock climbing didn’t phase him! I can’t find any account that he was anything other than a well-adjusted, happy kid. Isn’t this the very definition of normal?
By all his own self-admissions, he never considered himself “disabled”. [Well, up until he murdered Reeva.]
Why do some insist that he somehow never properly “grieved” over his disability?
Grief requires loss.
If one never grew up eating Korean kimchee, would one “miss” it? Impossible.
What did OP lose?
His “legs” were simply a normal part of “him” - like other kids’ red hair, tallness, freckles or braces (which he also had LOL). He never knew anything else.
Sometimes there’s simply nothing to grieve.
Humans too often make the mistake of judging others’ lives and reactions by their own life and experiences ... or expectations. Not everyone is broken or devastated by the same things; some people are FAR more adaptable and resilient than others ... indeed, some thrive on endless challenge and adversity.
We should not expect that every disability is always a “problem” that must be “fixed” - sometimes there’s no problem and nothing to be fixed.
While I think OP’s mom had a profoundly positive influence on him, I also believe other familial influences were not so good - especially his father. By his own self-admission, Henke could be “cruel” and “exacting” towards the young Oscar. Cruelty of any kind never bodes well. This alone could explain at least some of OP’s personality and problems (as well as the father-son estrangement). Abuse of any kind begets abuse, whether subtle or overt.
With mom gone as the wise, grounded, common-sense counter-balance, I think the greatest detrimental influence on OP was a deadly “perfect storm” of two factors.
First, SA’s entrenched, macho, sports-as-religion, patriarchal, gun-obsessive culture.
Second, throw in sudden fame and fortune at the tender age of 17, escalating to global status of sports demi-god - and well, there it is.
OP isn’t the first young person to be ruined by sudden fame, money and power - sucked into deductive narcissism, that sense of invincibility.
I imagine it’s much like a drug. An addictive, destructive, all-consuming drug that profoundly changes life, relationships, reality, one’s very core.
Like any drug addict, not only did OP eventually pay the terrible consequences - so did everyone around him.
In the end, Oscar’s disability was never his legs - it was ego.
jilly
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:tyou:Awesome post!:goldcrown:
Thanks so much for taking the time to respond with your stellar insight!
Starmelody
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Thanks so much for the welcoming.
I've been reading many of the oscar posts and finallty decided to join.
My partner thinks I am obsessed with the case, but it really bothers me that we don't know what really happened.
I've watched the trial till the end, hoping I would get some answers- but got nothing except confusion and anger.
I loved watching Nel. Roux reminded me of a purring cat (the way he spoke and his mannerisms)- I didn't mind Roux- but Olwadge I could not fathom for one second.
I got the impression that Nel thought of oscar as a psychopath (sociopath) type of person. Nel is not stupid, he has dealt with many cases.
On the other hand I wonder if Roux really believed Oscar's story.
Apparently, I've read, that many successful people (CEO's, top athletes) are sociopaths.
OP was made to believe he was 'normal' since he was young. So he tries to prove he is normal by doing everything that a 'normal' person would do.
He even wants to compete against top athletes in the 'normal' olympics so that he can prove he is normal- but at the end of the day the reality is that he is not 'normal'- he has to remove his legs and look down at himself and see he is missing his legs. Surely this would mess with his head- he would have a big chip on his shoulder. That's why he is so insecure in every relationship and deals with it by trying to control his partner. That's why he flaunts his exes to his girlfriends (reeva), he is trying to make his partner(reeva) insecure. He might have an issue with women because of his mother. His mother made him believe he was normal ( like his brother )- as he got older he realised that he is not no matter what he does (he has gone to extremes to prove he is normal). His mother seemed controlling over him, so now he is controlling over women.
I've been reading many of the oscar posts and finallty decided to join.
My partner thinks I am obsessed with the case, but it really bothers me that we don't know what really happened.
I've watched the trial till the end, hoping I would get some answers- but got nothing except confusion and anger.
I loved watching Nel. Roux reminded me of a purring cat (the way he spoke and his mannerisms)- I didn't mind Roux- but Olwadge I could not fathom for one second.
I got the impression that Nel thought of oscar as a psychopath (sociopath) type of person. Nel is not stupid, he has dealt with many cases.
On the other hand I wonder if Roux really believed Oscar's story.
Apparently, I've read, that many successful people (CEO's, top athletes) are sociopaths.
OP was made to believe he was 'normal' since he was young. So he tries to prove he is normal by doing everything that a 'normal' person would do.
He even wants to compete against top athletes in the 'normal' olympics so that he can prove he is normal- but at the end of the day the reality is that he is not 'normal'- he has to remove his legs and look down at himself and see he is missing his legs. Surely this would mess with his head- he would have a big chip on his shoulder. That's why he is so insecure in every relationship and deals with it by trying to control his partner. That's why he flaunts his exes to his girlfriends (reeva), he is trying to make his partner(reeva) insecure. He might have an issue with women because of his mother. His mother made him believe he was normal ( like his brother )- as he got older he realised that he is not no matter what he does (he has gone to extremes to prove he is normal). His mother seemed controlling over him, so now he is controlling over women.
jilly
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Welcome Starmelody!:goodpost: It makes sense to me, otoh, so does Lux. It seemed to me there had to be a root cause. Could be a combination of both your opinions. Oscar's Dad was apparently controlling too and hard on him.
There's definitely an insecurity there. Deep down, he is insecure and wants to please but with fame and fortune, maybe he developed a false sense of security. Whatever, I still maintain he needs a lot of psychological help. I don't believe prison alone will help him but at least it will protect others around him.
emirates1957
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Dear Starmelody, take a ticket and join the Nell Bandwagon we are all quite smitten !!
ColonelMustard
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"...many successful people (CEO's, top athletes) are sociopaths."
Snakes in Suits: When Psychopaths Go to Work
http://www.amazon.com/Snakes-Suits-When-Psychopaths-Work/dp/0061147893
(When these people have to travel for work, indeed it's "Snakes on a Plane"!)
"...I wonder if Roux really believed Oscar's story."
I don't know when he knew but I absolutely, 100% believe that, at some point, Roux knew.
"...but Olwadge I could not fathom for one second."
To me, Oldwage is a caricature of himself. I couldn't stand him. (He's also the type of guy who would have asked me out on a date, back in the day. I'd want Nel, I'd get Oldwage! YIKES!) The only thing that could have been worse - and my apologies to those from countries that have this - would be if he had worn... Ok, so he didn't. Instead, I whipped up a quick (1.5 minute), very poor photoshop of him if he had!
emirates1957
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He looks like Shirley Temple in drag.
D
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http://www.community.nsw.gov.au/docswr/_assets/main/documents/research_alcohol_misuse.pdf
Parental alcohol misuse and the impact on children
Page 5:
There is no clear evidence that maternal alcohol misuse has a greater or lesser impact on
children than paternal alcohol misuse. However, children of mothers who misuse alcohol are
more likely to be exposed to a variety of risks and it is the accumulation of risk factors that
poses the greatest threat.
Parents who misuse alcohol and other drugs are more likely to be excessively authoritarian
or permissive in their parenting style and hold unrealistic expectations of childrens abilities.
I think of Henke and Sheila. - There is much more to it to read.
Parental alcohol misuse and the impact on children
Page 5:
There is no clear evidence that maternal alcohol misuse has a greater or lesser impact on
children than paternal alcohol misuse. However, children of mothers who misuse alcohol are
more likely to be exposed to a variety of risks and it is the accumulation of risk factors that
poses the greatest threat.
Parents who misuse alcohol and other drugs are more likely to be excessively authoritarian
or permissive in their parenting style and hold unrealistic expectations of childrens abilities.
I think of Henke and Sheila. - There is much more to it to read.
emirates1957
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Thank you Colonel, I have worked with a number of industrial narcissists, and have just gone online and purchased this book. Look forward to reading it.
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