Post sentencing discussion and the upcoming appeal

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According to OP, Reeva is so scared and believes the intruders are coming closer to her, that she doesn't say anything to him.

Interesting he uses the hypothetical construction throughout that sequence when supposedly discussing actual events

:thinking:

I think that she would have kept quiet

Should be - "I think that is why she kept quiet" or "I think she kept quiet because"

He often makes this error when discusses his invented events

Then I presume that she would think that the danger is coming closer to her.

This should be in the past tense - not conditional

i.e. "I presume she thought"

I guess it is hard to discuss concepts in past tense
 
EWN’s Sheldon Morais chats to the presenter of Discovery ID's 'True Crime with Aphrodite Jones' about the Oscar Pistorius Trial.

http://ewn.co.za/Media/2014/11/27/Aphrodite-Jones-on-the-Pistorius-trial

I think Mr Fossil needs to contact April Jones with the link to his research.

I wonder what she discovered about Reeva?

Did you see Mandy's tweet? (Sorry I don't know how to copy and paste a tweet)

Someone asked her about it and if she was going to reveal the msgs and all she said was "When the lawyers let us?"

This upsets me because it feels like Reeva is going to be disrespected when she is not around to defend herself. Do you think it has anything to do with that Emg account that used to badmouth Reeva?
 
I just finished listening to the interview with John Carlin. The interviewer said he had Barry Bateman and Mandy Wiener in the studio together with about 80 people. They asked those present to raise their hands if they thought OP knew Reeva was behind the door and everyone except 1, or possibly 2, raised their hand. Barry and Mandy said this has happened at every single event.

Everyone in the world knows this after hearing the trial.......................including Roux/his family etc etc etc.

Masipa and the assessors should hang their heads in shame there is absolutely no excuse for their ruling.

Photo 55 being a prime example of their total incompetence.
 
<Respectfully snipped>



"Snakes and ladders" ... I like that.

I think it's a real shame that the ladders were there. "He could only have suspected that they might be". I'd suggest he prayed continuously until he was told that they were. If not, how would the "intruder/s" have entered? There no nearby downpipe and the branches on the tree are too slender near the house. Maybe via a grappling hook?

Nel would have had an absolute field day if there no ladders.

Does anyone know when his contractor buddy who heard the three thunderclaps at 3:08am first showed up at OP's that morning? Was it before or after the police peered out the windows and saw the ladders?
 
OP’s girls over the years. The dates are approximate.

Vicky Miles 2006-2008; 2009-2012
Chanelle Du Plessis 2006
Jenna Edkins 2008 – 2013
Melissa Rom 2009
Sam Taylor May 2011 - Oct 2012
Anastasia Khozissova July - ? 2012
Reeva 4 Nov 2012 – 14 Feb 2013
Erin Stear (?) Jan - Feb 2013 (while dating Reeva)
Leah Sky Malan Dec 2013 - Feb 2014

Will anyone, including the ever faithful Jenna, be brave enough to form a relationship with him when he’s out of prison? How old will he be? What will he have to offer? Could they withstand the inevitable insults hurled his way if they’re seen out in public with him? Will he have a huge amount of pent up aggression by the time he’s free?

No, he’ll never be free. He’ll exchange his prison cell for a life without bars but a prison all the same. He's actually safer inside prison. Once he leaves he'll have to get used to looking over his shoulder because he has dangerous enemies outside and he won't lawfully be able to carry his trusty gun.

While Good-Loyal-Ex-GF Jenna may have posted tweets of support for OP early on, surely even she has got to see him in a very different, much darker light now. How could she not? He’s a convicted killer. It could have been HER in that toilet.

Like Sam Taylor, no doubt each of his ex’s (and all his one-night stands) are thanking their lucky stars they’re rid of him.
 
According to OP, Reeva is so scared and believes the intruders are coming closer to her, that she doesn't say anything to him.

OP: My Lady, I agree with Mr Nel. She would have been terrified, My Lady but I do not think that would have let her to scream out. I think that she would have kept quiet for that reason …[intervenes].
Nel: Or answered …[intervenes].
OP: I was shouting and I was approaching the toilet and she was in the, I was approaching the bathroom and she was in the toilet. Then I presume that she would think that the danger is coming closer to her. So why will she shout out? (p429)

So why did she slam the toilet door just as he approaches the bathroom in his final version?

This significant sound startle is not part of his bail statement. Why did he add it? I'll post my answer shortly.


Notice OP first says “I was shouting and I was approaching the toilet”, then quickly corrects it to “I was approaching the bathroom”.

I think he’s telling us he was much closer to the toilet door when he fired than he was in his “story”. And “the danger” certainly was coming closer to her, wasn’t it?

This is a perfect example of how bits of the truth bleed out, no matter how hard liars try to keep a lid on it all. The sub-conscious is extremely powerful.
 
Or he in fact knew they were (probably) there (as per his bail statement) and wasn't as bothered as he'd like us to believe? It's a possibility but it's inconsistent with other evidence pointing to his fears e.g. the washing machine incident.

I think he was probably aware that they were being left there every night .. and he only said that all other stuff about asking for them being put away in the garage at night to cover himself/to try and show he was conscientious about his security (which, clearly, he wasn't if you take all the other things into account).

That was damned lucky for him that those ladders were there .. it does make me wonder if he used that knowledge of them being there to just go free rein and kill Reeva, because without them being there, he would've been well and truly stuffed with his version. Then again, would he have been stuffed? Liars like him are able to think up an excuse for absolutely everything .. no doubt if the ladders hadn't been left there, he would've just said he thought they had been, as he was having work done on the house and that in the panic of the moment he wasn't thinking straight and he had no idea if they were or they weren't, blah blah .. so, whereas I was thinking the ladders are a 'make or break' thing for his version, actually they might not be. It's just incredible how people like him can think up some little story/excuse/lie for absolutely everything in the blink of an eye .. I know I keep saying it, but that was exactly how my ex partner was and it was really scary.
 
Sadly you're probably right. She sounds too decent to have dumped him by text, which with hindsight would have been the safest way.

Yup, but then again, I doubt that would've been the end of it because Pistorious would've started pestering her again with texts, etc, and saying all sorts of manipulative stuff to draw her back into the relationship again. My ex used to do that with me .. no sooner had I thought I had got out of the relationship than he was texting or phoning me, telling me things like he had had an accident (fallen over and bashed his head on something) and that he was in a really bad way/wasn't sure if he had concussion, and that he didn't have anyone else that could help him, etc, etc, etc .. so they try and make you feel guilty and you end up being drawn back in again .. in my case, I told him I would come out and see if he was ok .. which he wasn't, but it wasn't down to being concussed but from having had a skinful of drink .. but then somehow or other we ended up spending all day at the hospital, because he was pretending to be concussed and I wasn't sure to start off with if he was or he wasn't but he turned out not to be, but then somehow or another I ended up being drawn back in again, yet I told him at that point that I was only going to help him 'as a friend'. Sadly, It doesn't work like that though, because they start on that whole thing of manipulating you again and the whole cycle starts again. It can also depend on where you yourself are in life .. I was at a fairly vulnerable point in my life when I met him, so he was able to manipulate me more easily than would've been at any other point in my life .. had it been now, or previously, I would've just told him to sod off*, even if he was in a bad way or thought he had been concussed, because I'm normally a much stronger person and wouldn't be taken in by such a load of old rot .. but at at time, and when you are with these types of people, they wear you down so much and they twist your mind so much that you don't know which way is up, and you end up just being drawn back in again .. and that is what I think would've happened to Reeva if she had texted him to say it's off, he would've tried all sorts of things to draw her back in again and I think there is evidence of that already having happened in their relationship .. definitely on one occasion, and probably more times. I think she wanted 'out' before, going by some of her whatsapp messages, but ended up going back in and you can see from what she was saying that she just wasn't at all sure about it, she was having a struggle trying to work out whether Pistorius was ok or not, and that's because of his Jekyll and Hyde nature. Seriously, she was doomed right from the start .. poor girl :-(


* I doubt even that would've worked though because these types of people are obsessed, and even if I had told him to sod off I very much doubt he would've done .. and it's only whey *they* decide the relationship is over that they will actually let it drop. That was the time when I was able to get out of my abusive/violent relationship was when he decided he had had enough .. he sent me a 12 page email telling me how horrible I was, how he thought I had raped him (yep, really .. that is what he accused me of) and then he stopped all communication with me ... thank god! Finally I was allowed to go free. It really is just the luck of the draw who you get involved with, and if anyone had ever said to me years ago that I would end up in a relationship like that, I wouldn't have believed them because, to me, I was a strong person and always thought I would never stand for any of that kind of nonsense .. but that's not how it works, and it was a very hard lesson for me because I was always one of those to say 'but why doesn't she just leave him' if ever I heard about a woman who had been in such a relationship. Now I know different!
 
Did you see Mandy's tweet? (Sorry I don't know how to copy and paste a tweet)

Someone asked her about it and if she was going to reveal the msgs and all she said was "When the lawyers let us?"

This upsets me because it feels like Reeva is going to be disrespected when she is not around to defend herself. Do you think it has anything to do with that Emg account that used to badmouth Reeva?

BBM .. at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what Reeva did (not to me it doesn't, anyway) because whatever anyone has done, it does not mean they deserve to be killed in such a horrific way. What is needed here is the truth, and I couldn't give a damn what Reeva did .. it would never justify what Pistorius did to her. Pistorius will always be, and must always be, remembered as the 'bad guy' here .. he is the one who committed the most foulest of all sins/crimes, anything that Reeva did should pale into insignificance in comparison.
 
Does anyone know when his contractor buddy who heard the three thunderclaps at 3:08am first showed up at OP's that morning? Was it before or after the police peered out the windows and saw the ladders?
In the You interview Christo Menelaou woke at 03:08 to what sounded like three thunderclaps. About an hour later he went to the bathroom, looked out of the window and saw all the lights in OP's house on and blue and red flashing lights outside. He had a quick shower and drove over to Oscar's house. So maybe around 04:30?

Colonel van Renburg and Constable Prinsaloo arrive at 03:55; Hilton Botha arrives at 04:15. Various other persons have also arrived in this time (see Timeline).

OP is taken to the garage between 04:50 and 05:12. Security guards are outside the house.

So if you're exploring whether the ladders might initially have been in the garage it's a non-starter. There was no chance of moving the ladders out of the garage without being seen and how would CM even know to do this? The ladders were where they were seen and later photographed IMO.
 
Does anyone know when his contractor buddy who heard the three thunderclaps at 3:08am first showed up at OP's that morning? Was it before or after the police peered out the windows and saw the ladders?

That same thought crossed my mind too, Val ...
 
While Good-Loyal-Ex-GF Jenna may have posted tweets of support for OP early on, surely even she has got to see him in a very different, much darker light now. How could she not? He’s a convicted killer. It could have been HER in that toilet.

Like Sam Taylor, no doubt each of his ex’s (and all his one-night stands) are thanking their lucky stars they’re rid of him.

Well, I guess it's possible that Jenna has also been manipulated .. she probably can't see the wood for the trees now .. :-/
 
In the You interview Christo Menelaou woke at 03:08 to what sounded like three thunderclaps. About an hour later he went to the bathroom, looked out of the window and saw all the lights in OP's house on and blue and red flashing lights outside. He had a quick shower and drove over to Oscar's house. So maybe around 04:30?

Colonel van Renburg and Constable Prinsaloo arrive at 03:55; Hilton Botha arrives at 04:15. Various other persons have also arrived in this time (see Timeline).

OP is taken to the garage between 04:50 and 05:12. Security guards are outside the house.

So if you're exploring whether the ladders might initially have been in the garage it's a non-starter. There was no chance of moving the ladders out of the garage without being seen and how would CM even know to do this? The ladders were where they were seen and later photographed IMO.

It crossed my mind but no, I was actually wondering if that was how OP seemed to know the ladders were out for his bail statement, or if indeed he himself had seen them still outside the previous evening, perhaps when he opened his balcony doors.
 
While Good-Loyal-Ex-GF Jenna may have posted tweets of support for OP early on, surely even she has got to see him in a very different, much darker light now. How could she not? He’s a convicted killer. It could have been HER in that toilet.

Like Sam Taylor, no doubt each of his ex’s (and all his one-night stands) are thanking their lucky stars they’re rid of him.

I would think of AK, the russian model, as a potential victim: 33 yo, successful woman with self-consciousness. Thank god, she didn't move in with OP and lived in New York at the time, far enough away from that threat in the form of a violent sports star/killer.
 
Did you see Mandy's tweet? (Sorry I don't know how to copy and paste a tweet)

Someone asked her about it and if she was going to reveal the msgs and all she said was "When the lawyers let us?"

This upsets me because it feels like Reeva is going to be disrespected when she is not around to defend herself. Do you think it has anything to do with that Emg account that used to badmouth Reeva?
Here's the twitter conversation:

susan wilson &#8207;@susanmcbrierty Nov 27
@MandyWiener do you know anything re Oscar and Reevas unseen msgs that Aphrodite Jones refers to in her interview?

Mandy Wiener &#8207;@MandyWiener
@susanmcbrierty maybe :)

susan wilson &#8207;@susanmcbrierty 23h23 hours ago
@MandyWiener lol so when you going to share info. These msgs would they really shed a bad light on both parties? As A Jones said

Mandy Wiener &#8207;@MandyWiener
@susanmcbrierty when the lawyers let us...
 
http://www.legalspeaks.com/2014/04/oscar-pistorius-and-his-domestic-violence-valentines-day-killing/

Oscar Pistorius and His Domestic Violence Valentine&#8217;s Day Killing

The whole defense seems so bizarre that Pistorius thought an intruder was hiding in the bathroom. Then again, the arguments and reasoning by an abusive lover or spouse never seem to make sense. It is reported by the World Health Organization that anywhere between 40% of women killed worldwide are killed by their loved ones as a result of domestic violence. According to World Bank data, women worldwide between the ages of 15-44 are more likely to be a victim of rape and domestic violence than cancer, motor accidents or war. A U.S. government study shows that 1 in 4 women will be the victim of domestic violence by a boyfriend or husband. Violence is defined as pushing, punching, hitting, slapping or attacking with a weapon. These startling facts are also reported in the United Nation&#8217;s Secretary-General&#8217;s In-depth Study on Violence Against Women, 2006. None of these facts will bring back Reeva Steenkamp. Awareness may help to save the lives of other women in similar situations.
 
http://sallydavies.co.za/fury-words-part-2-oscar-reeva-intimate-partner-violence/

....................
Many perpetrators (not all) show emotional instability – rages and unpredictable mood swings which are worse if there’s a compromised mental state as in drug or alcohol abuse, or brain injury which is more common than most people think (more on that later).

Finally, violence is more likely if perpetrators believe they will not be held accountable. They may manipulate others to take the blame, rely on social status to shield them, or discredit the victim with descriptions such as drunk, loser, mentally unstable, bad man/woman. Perpetrators of abuse usually play cruel mind games, causing partners to mistrust their own ideas and experiences, entertain false hopes of change, believe their own actions and attitudes have caused the abuse, or that they deserve it.

Early intensity is a common feature. ...........................
 
I think he was probably aware that they were being left there every night .. and he only said that all other stuff about asking for them being put away in the garage at night to cover himself/to try and show he was conscientious about his security (which, clearly, he wasn't if you take all the other things into account).

That was damned lucky for him that those ladders were there .. it does make me wonder if he used that knowledge of them being there to just go free rein and kill Reeva, because without them being there, he would've been well and truly stuffed with his version. Then again, would he have been stuffed? Liars like him are able to think up an excuse for absolutely everything .. no doubt if the ladders hadn't been left there, he would've just said he thought they had been, as he was having work done on the house and that in the panic of the moment he wasn't thinking straight and he had no idea if they were or they weren't, blah blah .. so, whereas I was thinking the ladders are a 'make or break' thing for his version, actually they might not be. It's just incredible how people like him can think up some little story/excuse/lie for absolutely everything in the blink of an eye .. I know I keep saying it, but that was exactly how my ex partner was and it was really scary.

Initially, I was so suspicious of OP that I used to think that he had asked his friend, Christo Menelaou, to leave or even put the ladders there as part of his premeditation.

This tweet raised red flags for me:

https://twitter.com/MediaSlut/status/328202854500290560/photo/1

Brotherly love? or More?

I also read this tweet:

Daniel Howden
@howden_africa
There were builders ladders at #pistorius house but not next to bathroom window as defence said

Tweeted on 20 February, 2013

If the Defence said the ladders were next to the bathroom window at the bail hearing as this suggests, this seems like deception to me.

Surely OP knew where the ladders were. Also, was the window large enough for an intruder to get in.

I had hoped that Christo would have taken the stand to explain.
 
Oscar took everything from us: Reeva&#8217;s mother opens up
28 November 2014 12:18

June Steenkamp, mother of Reeva Steenkamp who was shot and killed by Oscar Pistorius, will break her silence in a Carte Blanche interview on Sunday.

On Sunday night on Carte Blanche on M-Net (DStv 101) at 7pm, Steenkamp takes Sankaree Govender into her home after almost two years of media silence, sharing her most intimate thoughts about life without her daughter.

While Carte Blanche can&#8217;t broadcast the full interview, it will be made available on MultiChoice&#8217;s DStv Catch Up service right after Sunday evening&#8217;s Carte Blanche episode.

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/oscar-took-everything-us-reevas-mother-opens/
 
Does anyone have a complete version of the May 2013 You interview with Christo Menelaou? The extract I have is from the preview here
 
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