Post sentencing discussion and the upcoming appeal

[Estelle]

Don't we need to be careful with this kind of statistic? Does a representative proportion of people who think OP is innocent attend these events? Or are we saying 95%+ of people think he is guilty of murder?

On 26/10/13, I asked a Mod to put this poll up: What will be the outcome of the Oscar Pistorius trial?

Almost 68% voted for murder. The voters were a combination of WS members and the general public so not all of them had subscribed to the OP threads.

Here is the link:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...e-of-the-Oscar-Pistorius-Trial&highlight=POLL

 

[Estelle]

I didn't watch the video (can't stand the sight of Pistorius), but noticed this gem on the linked page:

"One day she [OP's mother] was looking out of the kitchen window and Carl was playing around and Aimee was toddling around and Oscar was stomping around in the dog’s bowl.

"She shouted out of the window, 'Oscar, get out of the dog’s bowl! You’re wetting your feet!' And then she realised that he didn’t feel that, and she just said, 'carry on in the dog’s bowl Oscar.'”

Why on earth would it be all right for him to misbehave with the dog's drinking water because he didn't have real feet to get wet? Wouldn't you tell any child to stop doing that?

Why hasn't Sheila Pistorius' second husband's name or marriage been mentioned in most of what you read about her. Did he abandon the children once she died?

http://www.geni.com/people/Sheila-Pistorius/6000000017201272181

 

[JudgeJudi]

Why hasn't Sheila Pistorius' second husband's name or marriage been mentioned in most of what you read about her. Did he abandon the children once she died?

http://www.geni.com/people/Sheila-Pistorius/6000000017201272181

I've searched high and low and I can't find his name anywhere. I haven't been able to find any details of the wedding or Sheila's funeral for that matter. All I've found is that they got married several months before she died.

I'm not entirely certain of the cause of death either.

1) dies after suffering an adverse reaction to medication after being wrongly diagnosed with hepatitis
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...1769/Oscar-Pistorius-Timeline-to-tragedy.html

2) Silcock says, “She’d had a brain haemorrhage at that point
http://www.enca.com/sheila-pistorius-she-taught-oscar-never-give

3) drug complications following a hysterectomy
http://www.geni.com/people/Sheila-Pistorius/6000000017201272181

4) But so it was: when Oscar was just 15 his mother, then aged 42, died of cancer.
http://wynbergrotary.org.za/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Wynpress-Vol-64-Issue-9.pdf

 

[Cherwell]

Why hasn't Sheila Pistorius' second husband's name or marriage been mentioned in most of what you read about her. Did he abandon the children once she died?

http://www.geni.com/people/Sheila-Pistorius/6000000017201272181

Given that he was only briefly married to their mother, I can't see why he would be expected to take responsibility for them, given that their father was alive, and there was also a large extended family.

 

[Estelle]

It's Aphrodite, not April, if you'll forgive me for the correction.

I'm not overly impressed with her knowledge of the case, going by that interview.

Thanks for correcting me, Cherwell. It's very strange but I must have had this little girl on my mind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_April_Jones

Fancy being called Aphrodite!

 

[Estelle]

Just thought I'd share this review of June's book:

http://www.thesouthafrican.com/reeva-a-mothers-story-by-june-steenkamp/

Here is an interview with Melinda Ferguson, the co-author of the book with Patrica Taylor. Just click on Thursday and then click on part two

http://cliffcentral.com/podcasts/

Here is an interview with John Carlin about his new Oscar book

http://www.capetalk.co.za/articles/989/chase-your-shadow-oscar-pistorius-s-tragic

Who has bought June's book, "A Mother's Story"? I feel we should buy it to support her and the establishment of the women's refuge.

If you do not intend to buy it, why not?

 

[Estelle]

That message your last link showed raises more questions than it answered imo, I'm assuming(hopefully correctly) that it's from OP to RS because of the house reference... so is that what RS meant by having let go with him(also was that during the Cape Town "holiday" after which he apparently changed?), was it a one time event that she wasn't certain she wanted to repeat(possibly due to the rumours of who OP had spent time with in the Cape when RS wasn't there), who? was never sulky or moody(his previous gfs?), and then the whole needing to be put first for it to work(to which RS had apparently subsequently told him(referring to the previous link you posted)). :/
http://www.africanman.co.za/?p=3185

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ius-and-Reeva-Steenkamp-Loved-like-crazy.html

IIRC Reeva did not spend time with her parents at Christmas and spent it alone (or with the Myers) in Joberg. Is that correct? Oscar went to Cape Town with a group. But Reeva expected to spend time with OP then. But she spent time with him over New Year? IIRC she paid for her own airfare to go down there to be with him as she was smitten and wanted to be with him. But he did not invite her. She asked herself to be with him. So when was the date they apparently had sex? 11th January? In Cape Town? I am rusty on these events these days. But IMO Reeva had backed off sexually since her first sexual encounter with OP whenever that was. As Reeva seems to be like I was at that age - if it's not about love, then why do it? Maybe she had heard things in the meantime about his being with other girls so unless he wanted an exclusive relationship, she decided that she was not going to be available to him sexually. They could have shown affection but she had turned off sexually wanting her own independence but still willing to date him and occasionally stay at his house but not for sex until she felt he was fully committed to her. This could have fully sexually frustrated OP if he had a high libido and he could have had resentment towards Reeva for denying him sex and her teasing him but not delivering. This could have been because he was accustomed to one night stands or sex on the first night and women worshiping him. But Reeva had become a challenge to him sexually at least so his resentment could have been building up when he realised that Reeva had become a challenge to him as she usually left him about 10pm to go home to sleep alone meeting Cecil Myers half way. He had once enjoyed sex with Reeva so why not do it again? So IMO Reeva was an old-fashioned girl where sex meant love. For all we know, Reeva probably denied him of sex that night of 13/14 February which could have made him even more sexually frustrated. that hurt

 

[Mr Fossil]

Here's another indication that OP originally intended his version to be that he went out on to the balcony.

In the bail hearing (Feb 2013) Roux challenges Warrant Officer Hilton Botha as follows:

But now you have it and you see his version... now did you care to test his version in the following respect: you go to the house, you walk to the balcony, you are outside on the balcony and you bring the fan in?

As Nel points out to OP in the trial, why would Roux explicitly state in the bail hearing that OP went out on to the balcony if OP hadn't told him so?

OP says Roux made a mistake.

From the trial transcript (p176).

 

[Cherwell]

In the bail hearing (Feb 2013) Roux challenges Warrant Officer Hilton Botha as follows:

But now you have it and you see his version... now did you care to test his version in the following respect: you go to the house, you walk to the balcony, you are outside on the balcony and you bring the fan in?

On another point, it amazed me at the time (and still does) how much was expected from Botha at this early stage. None of this would have been brought up at an English bail hearing, and rightly so.

 

[jay-jay]

I just happened upon this .. http://cadaily.net/world/june-steenkamp-claims-oscar-pistorius-never-loved-her-daughter-reeva/ .. the wording is hilarious!

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I just happened upon this .. http://cadaily.net/world/june-steenkamp-claims-oscar-pistorius-never-loved-her-daughter-reeva/ .. the wording is hilarious!

bbm

Must be! I can't even translate the odd wording. :smile:

 

[Val1]

I just happened upon this .. http://cadaily.net/world/june-steenkamp-claims-oscar-pistorius-never-loved-her-daughter-reeva/ .. the wording is hilarious!

Google translator ftw? What I noticed and found quite sad was the article at the bottom of that page, any guesses that that case won't be investigated properly, even though it certainly sounds suspicious to me? :/
http://cadaily.net/world/south-afri...star-killed-by-burglars-at-girlfriends-house/

 

[Lux et Veritas]

In a nutshell, most of what OP tells us didn't happen.

Can I query where you found that he pointed the gun away from Reeva when he put it down on the bath mat. I'd don't recognise this bit.

I'm searching through my tons of notes / links and as soon as I find it I'll post.

 

[44ALLAN]

According to OP, Reeva is so scared and believes the intruders are coming closer to her, that she doesn't say anything to him.



So why did she slam the toilet door just as he approaches the bathroom in his final version?

This significant sound startle is not part of his bail statement. Why did he add it? I'll post my answer shortly.

Better question is..................Why did the State not ask these questions ?

 

[44ALLAN]

I think he was probably aware that they were being left there every night .. and he only said that all other stuff about asking for them being put away in the garage at night to cover himself/to try and show he was conscientious about his security (which, clearly, he wasn't if you take all the other things into account).

That was damned lucky for him that those ladders were there .. it does make me wonder if he used that knowledge of them being there to just go free rein and kill Reeva, because without them being there, he would've been well and truly stuffed with his version. Then again, would he have been stuffed? Liars like him are able to think up an excuse for absolutely everything .. no doubt if the ladders hadn't been left there, he would've just said he thought they had been, as he was having work done on the house and that in the panic of the moment he wasn't thinking straight and he had no idea if they were or they weren't, blah blah .. so, whereas I was thinking the ladders are a 'make or break' thing for his version, actually they might not be. It's just incredible how people like him can think up some little story/excuse/lie for absolutely everything in the blink of an eye .. I know I keep saying it, but that was exactly how my ex partner was and it was really scary.

I'm sorry but I have to keep going back to the fact that the prosecution were mediocre ,at best, in their case and there are numerous examples.
Your point in question about the ladders.
Why was the builder not called to the witness box and asked when/how/who was the last people to attend OP's house and disconnect his alarm/remove sensors/his gutters/paint his house/use the ladders etc etc etc......................WHY?
OP was allowed to give his version without proper XE as there was no verification to his account of events and situations.
Totally amateurish and hence the appeal..................he should have been banged up in prison for executing Reeva many months ago IMO.

His whole story is complete and utter rubbish and the whole world knows it.
Roux/Uncle/Aunty/Carl/Aimee need to realise their lives will never be the same.
I doubt they will though or even notice it.

 

[44ALLAN]

I'm searching through my tons of notes / links and as soon as I find it I'll post.

I can remember it but can't help with finding it unfortunately lol.
I think it was when Nel was asking OP why he left the gun on the bathroom floor.....still cocked and ready to shoot !
He asked why he took it to the bedroom and opened curtains/blinds/climbed over bed etc with cocked gun still in hand..............Nel said OP was lying and he had put the gun down immediately after shooting Reeva through the door.
Really nice of OP to be concerned about Reeva's welfare....................like the plank of wood falling in and hurting her more.................or have I dreampt that bit?

 

[Interested Bystander]

I'm sorry but I have to keep going back to the fact that the prosecution were mediocre ,at best, in their case and there are numerous examples.
Your point in question about the ladders.
Why was the builder not called to the witness box and asked when/how/who was the last people to attend OP's house and disconnect his alarm/remove sensors/his gutters/paint his house/use the ladders etc etc etc......................WHY?
OP was allowed to give his version without proper XE as there was no verification to his account of events and situations.
Totally amateurish and hence the appeal..................he should have been banged up in prison for executing Reeva many months ago IMO.

His whole story is complete and utter rubbish and the whole world knows it.
Roux/Uncle/Aunty/Carl/Aimee need to realise their lives will never be the same.
I doubt they will though or even notice it.

The trouble I see there is that the builder is one of OP's best friends.

 

[44ALLAN]

The trouble I see there is that the builder is one of OP's best friends.

Maybe so but I doubt he would be doing the work....................get the workers on the stand fgs.

When were you last at the accused house?
Did the accused know you were working there at that time?
When did you paint the accused house last?
Did the accused know you were there?
When was the last time you removed sensors from the accused house?
Did the accused know you had removed sensors from his house?
When was the last time you used ladders at the accused house?
Where did you leave the ladders?
What date was that?
Were you told to put the ladders in the garage?
They were found in the garden...............why were they not in the garage?
Did Frank help you when you were there?
What was his role and where did he reside?
Did you ever set the alarm off whilst working there?
Why did you never set the alarm off?
Who switched the alarm off for you when you were working on the property?
Did you ever set the neighbours alarm off?
Did the neighbours dogs ever bark when you were there?
Did the accused dog's ever bark at you?
Was it a safe estate?
Could intruders get past the security easily..............................god almighty why were these questions not asked including thousands of others.

It stinks to high heaven it really does.

 

[Val1]

Maybe so but I doubt he would be doing the work....................get the workers on the stand fgs.

When were you last at the accused house?
Did the accused know you were working there at that time?
When did you paint the accused house last?
Did the accused know you were there?
When was the last time you removed sensors from the accused house?
Did the accused know you had removed sensors from his house?
When was the last time you used ladders at the accused house?
Where did you leave the ladders?
What date was that?
Were you told to put the ladders in the garage?
They were found in the garden...............why were they not in the garage?
Did Frank help you when you were there?
What was his role and where did he reside?
Did you ever set the alarm off whilst working there?
Why did you never set the alarm off?
Who switched the alarm off for you when you were working on the property?
Did you ever set the neighbours alarm off?
Did the neighbours dogs ever bark when you were there?
Did the accused dog's ever bark at you?
Was it a safe estate?
Could intruders get past the security easily..............................god almighty why were these questions not asked including thousands of others.

It stinks to high heaven it really does.

BBM I see what you did... For the record, yes I agree too much testimony was let in without documented evidence or even a proper foundation.

 

[Val1]

Better question is..................Why did the State not ask these questions ?

Two reasons off the top of my head, to keep HB off the stand and because the judge let the DT introduce testimony without a proper foundation/evidence to support it. I also think the PT was so certain that the law was on their side that they forgot DT teams aren't about the truth, but whatever will grant them a win for their client.