BBM Exactly what I was thinking... so I'm wondering, just when was this "grateful for everything you're doing" given in relation to the interview for the article?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BI4Cwd1CUAAHCrl.jpg
Post sentencing discussion and the upcoming appeal
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BBM Exactly what I was thinking... so I'm wondering, just when was this "grateful for everything you're doing" given in relation to the interview for the article?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BI4Cwd1CUAAHCrl.jpg
AJ_DS
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I agree fully…
However imagine a case where there is no bail statement nor plea explanation… much less contradicting statements or omissions…
I believe the system becomes unfair when the accused can stay completely silent, study all the evidence and then fabricate a story that fits the evidence but contradicts the charges.
… add to that the aggravating factors of contradictions and omissions and I believe much adverse inferences are warranted.
At least he's not been seen sporting a "Survivor" t-shirt yet, has he?:gaah:
My mistake (well spotted), I typed it too fast (can't find a way to cut & paste from the magazine viewers yet). The quote ends before 'But the following morning ...', which is a standalone comment in the article. How You Magazine know this I don't know.
Not just that, but isn't that basically what was found in RS's stomach contents, with some greens?
It's not long after Christo says "I just tried to help where I could by caring for the dogs and making sure Frankie had food." after OP had been arrested.
Appears that Frankie can't cook ... just after the bit where OP talks about getting Frankie to cook it says "He [OP] asked Lizzy [Christo's domestic worker] if Frankie could drop in every afternoon when she was cooking so he could learn ..."
cottonweaver
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Regardless of the breakfast picnic issue, I am getting confused here about this SG affadavit and whether it can be relied on .
For example in the post earlier on this page you rightly point out:
"2. Reeva had planned to surprise OP at home that evening BUT had planned for OP to eat dinner in Joburg and come home afterwards… since OP insisted on coming home early, Reeva had no choice but to go out to buy last minute groceries to prepare a dinner."
I always understood, from the texts between Op and RS that she had NOT been intending to cook him dinner that night - or are you saying you think she did intend to, but didn't expect to have to get on with it so fast but he had come home early and so she had to rush out to buy the stir fry ingredients.
Back to the picnic point - it's all too suspicious - reminds me of hearing the first rumours the morning after - she had turned up unannounced as a surprise and he mistook her for an intruder.
Whilst it does not surprise me at all that SG's and Christo's accounts of a picnic are similar, it's interesting that they also mirror some of those first wrong reports on morning of 14.2.13, which of course the female lead cop had to denounce with the "I don't know where the rumours of OP mistaking her for an intruder have come from... but they are not from us. " ( paraphrased)
Thanks, I was more wondering, was one of the things OP was thanking him for was doing this article? I would think at least some of that info should have been kept for trial... unless it was just more pr spin. We never did get to hear from CM on the stand, where he could be cross examined, right?
No, just for looking after the dogs and Frankie. The text is before the article.
cottonweaver
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I am just reading the Christo best friend interview now, thanks Mr Fossil. Always good to read something new.
Just looking at page 1, what jumps out for me is the first, only words OP says to his best friend.
Christo has just gone round to OPs, police there, it's 11am and IMO the very first and only exchange between them is significant in it's brevity, timing and of course its self-serving as usual.
"He came out the door in his grey trackpants.....when he reached me and grabbed me and hugged me. He said in my ear 'I thought she was a burglar."
It reiterates what most of us think. OP certainly stuck with the script didn't he! All he ever said - whether to Stander, Carice, Stipp, all the cops: the central lie about an intruder but was always careful to not provide the back-up detail. No - "OMG i heard xyz and I thought.... how could I have done that.... I didn't know she was ...I don't know how its possible she was in bed right next to me ....what have I done.."
Its not what I expect an innocent, "in love" person to say to the best friend when they first clap their eyes on them in such a highly charged context. Obviously it can't be proved but it just seems off to me. Its already about the story, maintaining the story - how very Pistorius is that! Its not about the horrific act/loss/Reeva.
The detail came later in bail statement, fleshed out during pre- bail jail time. Conniving.
Maybe I am being unfair so....OTOH, in Masipa's world ..
the only other interpretation I can think of, in his favour: by 11am when he sees Christo, OP is just exhausted and resigned to it all and is basically stating - it was a mistake. His core story never changed blah-blah blah.
Do I actually share the latter view? No.
Just looking at page 1, what jumps out for me is the first, only words OP says to his best friend.
Christo has just gone round to OPs, police there, it's 11am and IMO the very first and only exchange between them is significant in it's brevity, timing and of course its self-serving as usual.
"He came out the door in his grey trackpants.....when he reached me and grabbed me and hugged me. He said in my ear 'I thought she was a burglar."
It reiterates what most of us think. OP certainly stuck with the script didn't he! All he ever said - whether to Stander, Carice, Stipp, all the cops: the central lie about an intruder but was always careful to not provide the back-up detail. No - "OMG i heard xyz and I thought.... how could I have done that.... I didn't know she was ...I don't know how its possible she was in bed right next to me ....what have I done.."
Its not what I expect an innocent, "in love" person to say to the best friend when they first clap their eyes on them in such a highly charged context. Obviously it can't be proved but it just seems off to me. Its already about the story, maintaining the story - how very Pistorius is that! Its not about the horrific act/loss/Reeva.
The detail came later in bail statement, fleshed out during pre- bail jail time. Conniving.
Maybe I am being unfair so....OTOH, in Masipa's world ..
the only other interpretation I can think of, in his favour: by 11am when he sees Christo, OP is just exhausted and resigned to it all and is basically stating - it was a mistake. His core story never changed blah-blah blah.
Do I actually share the latter view? No.
I thought exactly the same thing, cottonweaver .. it just sounded to me like he was trying to instill in everyone/enforce the belief that he really did mistake her for a burglar. It's just not normal behaviour for someone who really did make a mistake, is it and I would expect someone who really had made a genuine mistake to have behaved more like you said there. There also seems to be quite a lot of 'the lady doth protest to much' about Pistorius's behaviour and actions, post shooting, too.
AJ_DS
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What I'm suggesting is that Sam not only contradicts herself, but also Reeva's messages, OP's testimony and divaris's affidavit trying to find a way to make those contradictions less contradictory by invoking an alleged surprise breakfast picnic only serves up more contradictions witch is to be expected when fabricating a story.
On one hand, Sam says Reeva was her best friend who confided in her and that Reeva had explained in great detail what she had bought and planned for OP on Valentine's day On the other hand, Sam talks and texts to Reeva as she was oblivious to all these Valentine plans . you can't have it both ways.
cottonweaver
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Aha! Now I get it.
Incidentally it seems like everyone is everyone's best friend in the circles they move in.
My brain hurts - with the nutella pancakes, chicken and cheese autopsy evidence, chicken and cheese "still in the fridge the next morning" plus the potential chicken and cheese picnic breakfast!!:thinking:
I want a photo of the fridge contents if Botha's still got 'em :tantrum:, preferably weighed, plus the food wrappers from the refuse plus the receipts from the food mart. I'll take the Reeva receipts for the Nutella and heart biscuits too if anyone has got them and Mr F will be able to give it a good go.
AJ_DS
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Indeed, I too would like more information rather than less.
From my POV, the simplest and most straightforward story is almost always the truth… because Life is almost always simple and straightforward.
If someone says they wish to leave and go home… it's because they wish to leave and go home
This does not mean that people don't sometimes lie to cover up a surprise…
… but when the people alleging a surprise act in a contrary manner with the principal colluder, contradict themselves and others, omit to mention such critical information under oath in a criminal investigation… I suspect the planned surprise is a fabrication.
cottonweaver
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Agreed the whispering " in the ear" part didn't help either. Sounded conspiratorial even though Christo has no part in any of this. (Do wonder if PR Annaliese Burgess/British PR team approved the copy for that interview?)
Although Batchelor said that everyone in their circles believes OP shot her in a rage, Christo probably believes all the hair shirt scenes/texts post killing is a sign of OPs innocence just like Masipa.
I thought the Aimee tweet /quote that JudgeJudi posted a couple of pages ago was interesting, where Aimee says,
( paraphrased) "Love means.... still loving someone even though you have seen their filthy heart". Can't find it now, but closest she has come to honesty to date.
Easy for Aimee to say of course, 1) she didn't have to be on the end of his abuse 2) she's still alive to love and tweet her heart out.
But...going back to that old chestnut ...does she suspect he is guilty? Yes, she probably does. In which case, that's not a close family, it's a charade.
(A charade in which of course she had a non-speaking part, playing a dead girl... who she loved ..help me out, what was the phrase from Uncle Arnie about Reeva?....."crept into our family's hearts/ we all loved.")
AJ_DS
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Me too…
A normal individual would be far less concerned with explaining how it happened to anyone who would listen … OP was overly anxious to peddle his version from the get go : Stander, Stipp, Christo, Aimee, etc…
Most people would rather not make an enemy of a rich and influential living individual… better to have him as a friend indebted to you...
… as for betraying a poor deceased individual… nothing to be gained or lost… simple self-serving human nature.
Lux et Veritas
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I’m convinced that 284 Bush Willow has got to be Christo Menelaou’s house. (see aerial photo below)
That Christo was not called as a key witness is astounding. His status as OP’s BFF aside, he had direct, first-hand knowledge of the crucial ladders. Equally astounding, he did not provide a witness statement in support of OP at bail hearing, as did Justin Divaris, Sam Greyvenstein, etc. He had first-hand knowledge of their relationship - OP and Reeva were visitors at his house on at least one occasion (4 days before her death) and very likely multiple times. It's very telling that Christo was “invisible” during the entire trial, just like Frank. These two knew plenty and had the 'goods' - instead we get the rather useless, at best neutral testimony of neighbors Mike and Rica.
Add to the CM weirdness -
1) It’s 4:08 am and you see your BFF is clearly in trouble but what do you do? You take a SHOWER before heading around the corner to see wtf is going on! Seriously, who does that?!! I find it not only highly improbable but highly suspicious. So, if he lied and didn’t take a shower, what was he really doing from the time he heard three “thunderclaps” (LOL) at 3:08?
We know OP was on his phone a lot that night; we know data was deleted from OP’s phone. Were communications (i.e. texts) between OP and Christo wiped? Is it possible Christo did wake at 3:08 am, heard/saw way more than he lets on (i.e. pretty much everything), immediately went around to OP’s house and if the ladders were not already outside, helped OP to move them out from the garage? Remember, this is the same guy who was burglarized via ladder in the same estate (amazing coincidence, no?).
2) Why would Christo (284) DRIVE to OP’s house (286) right around the corner? It’s ridiculous. The reasonable man (a young contractor in good physical condition) would simply take off and sprint instead of wasting time finding car keys and getting the car out of the garage. He may have driven his car to the scene to appear that he lived much farther away - to distance himself as an immediate neighbor with a full view of OP’s house across the empty lot (like the Stipps).
IMHO, my scenario explains a couple things:
1) It explains why OP would contact Stander first on his version and not his BFF just around the corner - CM had already been to OP’s house first. OP only wanted friendly Stander as official, carefully-chosen first witness, his arrival curiously timed perfectly with OP’s “tragic” descent down the staircase with Reeva. This wasn’t “remorse” - it was cold, deceptive stage management.
2) It explains why CM took his time taking a “shower” and getting to OP’s house around 4:30 am(?) - he wanted to distance himself in the official police time line - all to downplay his close relationship with OP, his very close physical location and his true knowledge of the event.
Hell, for all we know, OP could have demanded that Frank help him move ladders out of the garage by threatening his health/life if he didn’t play dumb. This could explain why Frank was already dressed and OUTSIDE in the street when security and Stander arrived. Whether ladders were moved or not, at OP’s command no doubt, Frank literally distanced himself from his boss and the crime scene - voila ... no other witness except OP.
Throw in Christo and three guys silently moving ladders would be a snap. Seeing as OP’s expansive, open-plan house had plenty of space to maneuver through double outside doors, I think it’s entirely possible (however improbable) the ladders could have been moved directly from the garage through the house to the yard with no chance of being seen. That theory being thrown out there, I still believe the ladders were always left in the yard, contrary to OP’s fearful, “security-conscious” bleatings.
Lux et Veritas
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OP claims to have SCREAMED Reeva! Reeva! Reeva!.
Many here believe both the bathroom window and balcony doors were always open that night (all the opening/closings pure fairytale).
Why did NO ear witnesses (state or defense) ever hear Reeva Reeva Reeva? Its a rather unique name that cannot easily be confused with other names or words, IMO. It never happened.
But, OP made sure witnesses had no problem hearing his pitiful crying and Help Help Help.
Many here believe both the bathroom window and balcony doors were always open that night (all the opening/closings pure fairytale).
Why did NO ear witnesses (state or defense) ever hear Reeva Reeva Reeva? Its a rather unique name that cannot easily be confused with other names or words, IMO. It never happened.
But, OP made sure witnesses had no problem hearing his pitiful crying and Help Help Help.
AJ_DS
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I’m convinced that 284 Bush Willow has got to be Christo Menelaou’s house. (see aerial photo below)
That Christo was not called as a key witness is astounding. His status as OP’s BFF aside, he had direct, first-hand knowledge of the crucial ladders. Equally astounding, he did not provide a witness statement in support of OP at bail hearing, as did Justin Divaris, Sam Greyvenstein, etc. He had first-hand knowledge of their relationship - OP and Reeva were visitors at his house on at least one occasion (4 days before her death) and very likely multiple times. It's very telling that Christo was “invisible” during the entire trial, just like Frank. These two knew plenty and had the 'goods' - instead we get the rather useless, at best neutral testimony of neighbors Mike and Rica.
Add to the CM weirdness -
1) It’s 4:08 am and you see your BFF is clearly in trouble but what do you do? You take a SHOWER before heading around the corner to see wtf is going on! Seriously, who does that?!! I find it not only highly improbable but highly suspicious. So, if he lied and didn’t take a shower, what was he really doing from the time he heard three “thunderclaps” (LOL) at 3:08?
We know OP was on his phone a lot that night; we know data was deleted from OP’s phone. Were communications (i.e. texts) between OP and Christo wiped? Is it possible Christo did wake at 3:08 am, heard/saw way more than he lets on (i.e. pretty much everything), immediately went around to OP’s house and if the ladders were not already outside, helped OP to move them out from the garage? Remember, this is the same guy who was burglarized via ladder in the same estate (amazing coincidence, no?).
2) Why would Christo (284) DRIVE to OP’s house (286) right around the corner? It’s ridiculous. The reasonable man (a young contractor in good physical condition) would simply take off and sprint instead of wasting time finding car keys and getting the car out of the garage. He may have driven his car to the scene to appear that he lived much farther away - to distance himself as an immediate neighbor with a full view of OP’s house across the empty lot (like the Stipps).
IMHO, my scenario explains a couple things:
1) It explains why OP would contact Stander first on his version and not his BFF just around the corner - CM had already been to OP’s house first. OP only wanted friendly Stander as official, carefully-chosen first witness, his arrival curiously timed perfectly with OP’s “tragic” descent down the staircase with Reeva. This wasn’t “remorse” - it was cold, deceptive stage management.
2) It explains why CM took his time taking a “shower” and getting to OP’s house around 4:30 am(?) - he wanted to distance himself in the official police time line - all to downplay his close relationship with OP, his very close physical location and his true knowledge of the event.
Hell, for all we know, OP could have demanded that Frank help him move ladders out of the garage by threatening his health/life if he didn’t play dumb. This could explain why Frank was already dressed and OUTSIDE in the street when security and Stander arrived. Whether ladders were moved or not, at OP’s command no doubt, Frank literally distanced himself from his boss and the crime scene - voila ... no other witness except OP.
Throw in Christo and three guys silently moving ladders would be a snap. Seeing as OP’s expansive, open-plan house had plenty of space to maneuver through double outside doors, I think it’s entirely possible (however improbable) the ladders could have been moved directly from the garage through the house to the yard with no chance of being seen. That theory being thrown out there, I still believe the ladders were always left in the yard, contrary to OP’s fearful, “security-conscious” bleatings.
Good post…
If I'm not mistaken the 3:08AM time came from Christo's mouth… if Christo is colluding with OP then we can't put much reliability on that time.
My thoughts on the ladders was always that they were left there and that nobody gave them a second thought not even OP… they were conveniently integrated in OP fabricated story… but the ladders did not play a significant role in the defence or the verdict… had they not been there to begin with the outcome would have been the same.
The shower is odd to say the least… it makes no sense to me unless you had something you absolutely needed to wash off… like blood from a crime scene
Is it possible that Christo was first on the scene ?… came over to OP's house because he heard Reeva screaming for her life… entered OP's house moments after OP shot Reeva ?
...could explain how Frank entered OP's house and was told "get the *advertiser censored** outta my house"
… could explain why OP's front door was unlocked and open when Carice, Johan, Baba, etc.. arrived at OP's house
Personally, I never bought OP's story that he had the presence of mind to unlock and open all the door before picking up Reeva with the intent of carrying her outside to his car
lolastareyes
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