Post sentencing discussion and the upcoming appeal

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BiB.................Whether it would or not is totally irrelevant.
It's not up to the forensics to decide whether the judge.............18month down the line, is going to find their evidence 'worthy' of note or damning to the prosecution or the defence.
They should be trained to take that evidence and produce it for the case in question.
Just because Masipa made a total *advertiser censored*-up of this case shouldn't stop 'ALL' evidence being taken or filed or photographed for later use by the investigating officers and i note cherwells reservations about SAPS.
My whole point is there was evidence/or possible evidence in the OP trial that could have been used to nail his sorry *advertiser censored* for murder but it appears (might not be in the public domain) it is not being used..............phone took from scene as a prime example.
I just think the contents of his fridge/spare bedroom/sink/waste bins/garage/sitting room etc etc should have been photographed and noted as a matter of course.
As a parent myself i would have expected this in a possible murder case...............but maybe that's just me lol:)
Appreciate your responses though that's why this site is so good :)

Agreed

Some evidence might have been collected/photographed but not used at Trial by the State… just like the pair of jeans found outside
 
The sequence is slightly different according to Stander. I'll take a closer look at the differences.

Yes… but if I had to decide which person I found more credible and reliable, Dr Stipp would be it... hands down.
 
WhatsApp messages

Here's a file I've collated so far of the Reeva's and Oscar's WhatsApp messages. Let me know if you spot any errors or can point me to any I've missed. For each date, the format is time, message id, sender and message text. Some messages are incomplete, with missing parts indicated by '...'

Does anyone know what this was about? Where were they on Saturday 26 January, I wonder.

Sun 27 Jan 2013
Yesterday wasn't nice for either of us but we managed to pull through and communicate well enough to show our care for each other is greater than the drama that attacked us.
 
I just find some of their messages really weird .. I mean in that quite often they don't really seem to flow. Sometimes Reeva appears to be answering something that OP has said (and vice versa, I think) and yet there is no message there for them to be replying to. Even some of the individual messages are a bit odd because they are only half sentences.
 
I just find some of their messages really weird .. I mean in that quite often they don't really seem to flow. Sometimes Reeva appears to be answering something that OP has said (and vice versa, I think) and yet there is no message there for them to be replying to. Even some of the individual messages are a bit odd because they are only half sentences.
Some of the messages shown by You are in the wrong order! They have printed them in message id sequence which doesn't always work. Where messages overlap they can sometimes appear with reversed message ids. I've been going through mine and switching them with more detailed information. I'm still updating (there's a lot of new messages since I first posted earlier). Part messages are where I can only see part of the message. What the times and message ids to get a feel for whether the messages actually follow on or are part of a separate conversation. I'll be adding more messages later this evening and tomorrow.
 
WhatsApp messages

Here's a file I've collated so far of the Reeva's and Oscar's WhatsApp messages. Let me know if you spot any errors or can point me to any I've missed. For each date, the format is time, message id, sender and message text. Some messages are incomplete, with missing parts indicated by '...'

What a great doc, thanks so much!

Fri 18 Jan 2013

03:27:06 54991 Reeva Morning angel just woke up to go to the loo. I’m sorry you’re feeling down L and on the night I have the worst signal and pr craziness! ...

That's 3:27 in the morning, right? So OP had some indication that Reeva sometimes got up in the middle of the night to use the toilet.

I don't want to make too much over it but OTOH people tend to be consistent in their bathroom habits. It makes me think Reeva had done so in the past when she was at Oscar's house. I often get up late at night while my husband rarely does. He's fully aware that it's me moving around and not some intruder.
 
WhatsApp messages

Here's a file I've collated so far of the Reeva's and Oscar's WhatsApp messages. Let me know if you spot any errors or can point me to any I've missed. For each date, the format is time, message id, sender and message text. Some messages are incomplete, with missing parts indicated by '...'

just looking - again - at the phone records you created [many thanks!]. why do you think that, in some cases on the records, contiguous connection times [to the same tower] are given two separate entries? in other cases many phone records are bunched together under one connection time...

example: reeva's phone
d24 on your chart

versus
d34/d35
d36/d38
d49/d50
 
Does anyone know what this was about? Where were they on Saturday 26 January, I wonder.

Sun 27 Jan 2013
Yesterday wasn't nice for either of us but we managed to pull through and communicate well enough to show our care for each other is greater than the drama that attacked us.

Found this on google:
Reeva and Oscar at Tashas All White Party on the 26.1.2013
with pic:

26012013OscarReeva.jpg


Don't know, what happened there. The "normal" jealousy problem, I think. OP doesn't look well, it seems to me.
 
Mr. Fossil,

you are doing an extraordinary detailed work!!! You are not an employee of FBI, you are sure??

Thank you very much for the enormous effort!

:loveyou:
 
just looking - again - at the phone records you created [many thanks!]. why do you think that, in some cases on the records, contiguous connection times [to the same tower] are given two separate entries? in other cases many phone records are bunched together under one connection time...

example: reeva's phone
d24 on your chart

versus
d34/d35
d36/d38
d49/d50
There appear to be a number of reasons that connection can be dropped, for instance temporarily losing signal because of movement. In some of the instances you give we see a switch to 2G and back to 3G which is where the 3G signal has been lost, is re-established with 2G and then upgraded to 3G as soon as a 3G connection has been negotiated. Another reason can be where a call ends (a known iPhone fault according reports on iPhone forums at the time). It's not a perfect service.

If I look at my iPhone signal I often lose signal in my house and get it back again within seconds. Reeva only loses 20-odd seconds of connection throughout the whole period, so her phone is doing well.
 


(Hope you have a bit of free time - this post's a mini-blockbuster. :lol: :D )


So, is the author above full of #### or has he nailed a bulls eye? Here’s my take.

The Oscar Pistorius story is a consummate, now cautionary tale of white, male privilege. It’s highly likely (at least according to me lol) there would never have been Olympic sports-hero Oscar Pistorius, had he not come from an exclusive, privileged background.

One can talk about equality, “rainbow” societies, social justice all day long anywhere in the world but the ugly truth is that those fine goals will always remain more illusory ideals than reality. The world’s powerful elite do not want equality, social justice, equal opportunity and especially not serious competition. Their often ruthless, exploitative, oppressive, even sociopathic agendas, their crimes and offenses are endlessly enabled, sanitized and hidden by their wealth, class, race ... and all too often, enforced through entrenched patriarchy.

One doesn’t become much more privileged in this world than being a rich, white male.

238 years after the Declaration of Independence, my America is still staunchly dominated (and decimated) by rich, white men (however nameless and behind the scenes they may be - that’s where the real power lies).

Longstanding US culture idolizes the “self-made” man as the highest ideal, a paragon of manly virtue who gains his wealth and status through “rugged American individualism” - one who stoically pulls himself up by his bootstraps against impossible odds.

Except this pervasive, insidious social meme (with rare exceptions) is pretty much all pure HOGWASH.

The vast majority of the rich and stratified in the US are born into or marry into money (one very notable exception are professional athletes). Don’t you believe for one second America doesn’t have royalty - we do ... we just don’t call them that. Like the powerful Pistorius family, these peoples’ extreme wealth and privilege make them, for the most part, untouchable.

The very best (worst? lol) US example I can offer is Mitt Romney, the poster boy for rich, white, male privilege. In my view, he’s the epitome of the unindicted corporate criminal (his shady, tax-dodging, job-destroying deals are legendary public knowledge). IMHO, he’s the ultimate shyster, wheeler-dealer, opportunistic, 100% unrepentant, exploitative, self-promoting predator, who was born with a platinum pacifier in his mouth ... and he’s all too happy to tell you how he did it all by himself ... how he’s a heroic captain of industry, the consummate self-made man. LOL Sorry, NO. One only needs review his 2012 Presidential campaign videos and interviews to see that he, his wife, family, associates and entire upper-crust social circle are 100% clueless to the brutal realities the Rest of Us face all over the planet.

Americans are taught from childhood that if you just work hard enough (if your job isn’t outsourced to some third-world hell hole), you, too, can be rich and famous (maybe even President! ha ha) ... or at least live a post-2008-Wall-Street-Meltdown, scaled-way-down, faux-mini “American Dream”; you’re blamed and scolded that if you’re poor and marginalized and exploited it’s your own fault.

Except it’s all one Big Lie.

The Lie that systematically attempts to indoctrinate, control and exclude the bottom 99%. It’s nothing but pure propaganda that blinds the lower-class “riff-raff” (you and me) to the brutal truth of the rigid system that keeps them down by design and keeps the 1% perpetual winners.

“I’m Oscar Pistorius. I always win.”

Yes, the entire game is rigged from top to bottom - privilege and power operate by the same play book all over the world. Sports, politics, Wall Street, education, healthcare system, prisons, judicial system, labor, etc. - all systematically exploited by those in power to keep power.

So where am I going with all this? What does predator-capitalist poster boy Mitt Romney have to do with sports darling Oscar Pistorius?

They may be many years and continents apart, but they were both popped out of the same exact mold.


Hereditary wealth and privilege do NOT produce “self-made” men.

On the contrary, they mostly produce mindless, hedonistic clones, who are groomed to play and exploit the same system. They produce a rarified social strata of gross self-entitlement, heirs to the throne who feel little to no obligation to anyone or anything other than themselves. It’s a toxic, ‘inbred’ society that inevitably breeds a special type of sociopathy (How could it not? The dirty masses, lesser people, those “others”, anyone who threatens their sovereign power, prestige and fortunes must be held at bay, controlled or eliminated by any and all means, fair or foul.)

Oscar is NOT some magical, self-made man-god, He's not the little guy against impossible odds, some David against Goliath, a heroic underdog. He’s a product of exclusive social and economic privilege, the beneficiary of hereditary largesse he had no hand in creating. Oscar was no rags to riches story; this was no triumph of the spirit over horrific adversity; he did not scrap and hustle to pull himself up by his own bootstraps. He, like the vast majority of the global 1%, was already born on third base.

Does he have a natural gift for sports? Yes, he does. Did he physically work hard to achieve commercial “sports-hero” success? Yes, he did ... but no harder than so many other equally-talented, disadvantaged, all-but-invisible athletes. Do you really think a poor black/brown/purple-with-yellow-dots kid with Oscar’s same disability, same natural athletic talent and equal ambition would have gotten anywhere near the global pinnacle he did? Poor people, no matter how talented or virtuous, don’t have the personal, familial or societal resources to get the best education, the best medical care, access to the Best of Everything.

Success becomes easy when you’ve got all the perfect ingredients dropped in your lap.

* Who among the deserving-but-poor could even dream of hiring hand-picked medical / scientific research teams to promote their personal athletic cause, as privileged Oscar did?

* Who among them could afford attorneys to fight the IAAF ban in the international courts like Oscar did? Such narrow, self-promoting efforts take massive amounts of money and free time - assets poor people do not have.

* Would a poor, black amputee or perhaps Reeva Steenkamp, accused of murder in the same scenario, have been able to afford Oscar’s dream legal team - and his dream VIP prison sentence?

Money, class, gender and yes, race still open doors only to the special few. Make no mistake - the rich and powerful guard those doors zealously.

The sad truth is that money breeds money, power breeds power, privilege breeds privilege. It’s an entrenched, closed system (worldwide) that exists to protect and promote itself at all costs. The Pistorius family is part of that system.

So, why was Oscar worshiped as some heroic, self-made demi-god? (The world is full of genuine, unsung disabled heroes, whose names and deeds will forever remain unknown.) What exactly did Oscar valiantly “overcome” in his life, what trials and tribulations did he conquer - all on his own - to deserve such unconditional accolades and praise?

I say NOTHING.

He was merely a naturally gifted runner who had the great good fortune to have been born into a ready-made army of family wealth, slick family/multinational PR machines, national and international connections, plus other powerful allied interests - all who instantly recognized a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity in young Oscar. They stood behind him every single step of the way, aggressively enabled and excused his every sin and offense and catapulted him to international stardom.

Funny thing is, he never had any innate interest in track.

Ironically, it was his father Henke who did the sports stats research, who first noted Oscar’s world-class sprint time in high school.


With a hearty push by his rich, well-connected family and the irresistible allure of Olympic fame, even more fortune and glory, privileged Oscar simply sprinted from his Ivory Tower third base to the game-winning, world-series-title home plate.

He did not “overcome” his physical disability.
He did not “overcome” unique childhood trauma (death and divorce are common to many families).
He never knew anything else other than his "legs" from birth (Vorster’s “trauma” indeed).
There was simply nothing to overcome.
By every single account I’ve read - including Oscar’s own words - his childhood was nothing but generally happy and quite normal (if profoundly privileged).
He was handed everything he needed on a silver platter from the minute he was born - he wanted for nothing.

[To keep “hero” Oscar Pistorius in perspective, google Hugh Herr, professor at MIT and Natalie du Toit, Olympic / Paralympic champion - both who lost legs at age 17. Losing limbs as an adult is very traumatic - that’s overcoming true adversity, compared to losing them at 11 months, when one remembers nothing.]

Did Oscar take advantage of his natural athletic gift? Yes, he did. His rich, influential family guaranteed all avenues open to assure his success. In a sea of disadvantaged, yet gifted people around the world whose names we’ll never know, whose equal or greater talents and potential gifts to the world will die on the vine for lack of critical resources, lack of crucial support networks - how does that make Oscar even remotely special or exceptional?

Poor people all over the world are graced with natural gifts and exceptional talents of all kinds - but they’re stymied and road-blocked by an exclusionary system, a system designed to keep them out, their dreams all too often crushed by harsh economic, class, legal, racial, educational, etc. realities before those dreams can barely, if ever take root. (e.g. Go ahead, really smart poor people, apply to the Ivy League universities and see how fast they fall all over themselves to accept you. You won’t mind if they do a background/pedigree/credit check, including your off-shore bank accounts, right?). Do poor folks sometimes make it really big? Of course, but it’s the ultra-rare exception, not the rule.

There’s a reason it’s called the Haves and Have-Nots. The System is designed at every level to promote and maintain the success of the already successful - and one thing most rich, powerful, stratified people with a pathological sense of entitlement hate is genuine competition (monopoly is their ultimate game of choice); they target anyone who dares challenge their narcissistic moral, social and economic superiority.

Oscar never achieved global icon status all by himself.
He never made it big on his own dime.
He never had to fight for anything all on his own.
He enjoyed an endless army of endless resources at every level from day one.
He never honestly risked a damn thing.

Whether he won or lost, he always remained a privileged, rich, white guy.
Even after prison, he will still remain a privileged, rich, white guy.
Before his great fall, the media had damn near portrayed him up there along with Mother Teresa.
His gleaming blades were nothing more than prettied up, metallic spray-painted clay.

Just another very small, very arrogant, very selfish man.

So, where exactly does the “hero” part of Oscar Pistorius come in?

He certainly was no hero to Reeva Steenkamp.


In truth, it is she who should be lauded as a successful, self-made woman on her own merits alone.
 
03:27:06 54991 Reeva Morning angel just woke up to go to the loo. I’m sorry you’re feeling down L and on the night I have the worst signal and pr craziness! ...

That's 3:27 in the morning, right? So OP had some indication that Reeva sometimes got up in the middle of the night to use the toilet.
BIB - yes of course he did. I was surprised Nel didn't bring it up. Not only had Reeva stayed over the night before she was shot dead, but OP had other people who had stayed at the house previously (he said it was because he didn't like to be alone, or something), and so he absolutely must have been used to normal night-time noises, ie, people getting up to use the toilet, or going to fetch a drink. The fact he "accidentally" killed Reeva, when she would have been making the same normal night-time noises he was used to (and he knew she was awake, because she'd talked to him!!!) is suspicious beyond belief. But hey. He came up with a really quick and complicated 7-word excuse ("I thought she was an intruder") and in Masipasville, that means he's innocent.
 
BIB - yes of course he did. I was surprised Nel didn't bring it up. Not only had Reeva stayed over the night before she was shot dead, but OP had other people who had stayed at the house previously (he said it was because he didn't like to be alone, or something), and so he absolutely must have been used to normal night-time noises, ie, people getting up to use the toilet, or going to fetch a drink. The fact he "accidentally" killed Reeva, when she would have been making the same normal night-time noises he was used to (and he knew she was awake, because she'd talked to him!!!) is suspicious beyond belief. But hey. He came up with a really quick and complicated 7-word excuse ("I thought she was an intruder") and in Masipasville, that means he's innocent.

BiB..............don't get me started fgs please :)
 
Good post…

If I'm not mistaken the 3:08AM time came from Christo's mouth… if Christo is colluding with OP then we can't put much reliability on that time.

My thoughts on the ladders was always that they were left there and that nobody gave them a second thought not even OP… they were conveniently integrated in OP fabricated story… but the ladders did not play a significant role in the defence or the verdict… had they not been there to begin with the outcome would have been the same.

The shower is odd to say the least… it makes no sense to me unless you had something you absolutely needed to wash off… like blood from a crime scene

Is it possible that Christo was first on the scene ?… came over to OP's house because he heard Reeva screaming for her life… entered OP's house moments after OP shot Reeva ?

...could explain how Frank entered OP's house and was told "get the *advertiser censored** outta my house"

… could explain why OP's front door was unlocked and open when Carice, Johan, Baba, etc.. arrived at OP's house

Personally, I never bought OP's story that he had the presence of mind to unlock and open all the door before picking up Reeva with the intent of carrying her outside to his car

Wow, AJ, you make such an excellent point!

Unless one is getting ready to go to a super-early-morning job (or had the misfortune to encounter and piss off a skunk) - and given OP's dire, deadly circumstances, the very close proximity of CM’s house to OP’s house and his status as BFF (like “bothers”), an immediate 4:08am shower makes perfect sense to get rid of crime scene BLOOD.

(Another mystery - why would Christo even mention taking a shower in an interview?!! If anything, it puts him in a very bad/strange light and raises suspicions, as seen in this discussion. LOL)
 
Forgot to add this in my last post about the WhatsApp messages: What a selfish, whining, controlling twerp! It's the Oscar Show on every single channel. It made me so mad reading those messages! I'd bet my engagement ring that those close to Reeva were hoping she'd dump him. Bah!
 
There appear to be a number of reasons that connection can be dropped, for instance temporarily losing signal because of movement. In some of the instances you give we see a switch to 2G and back to 3G which is where the 3G signal has been lost, is re-established with 2G and then upgraded to 3G as soon as a 3G connection has been negotiated. Another reason can be where a call ends (a known iPhone fault according reports on iPhone forums at the time). It's not a perfect service.

If I look at my iPhone signal I often lose signal in my house and get it back again within seconds. Reeva only loses 20-odd seconds of connection throughout the whole period, so her phone is doing well.

the examples i cited are contiguous though. and 2g to 2g [or 3g to 3g] so there is no upgrade and no iphone 'call ending' fault, for example:
row 34 2g connection ends at 15:43:22
row 35 2g connection starts at 15:43:22
both on the same tower.

on a separate note, i have been researching vodacom and whatsapp queries people have had... regarding automatic polling by whatsapp [noticed in the early hours] and people seeing data usage when they were not using the phone. i wonder if this could apply in op's case?

still hoping for the elusive vodacom [or whatsapp!] engineer to pop in and assist with the binge whatapps/op early morning usage - that mystery is so frustrating.

keep up the excellent work.
 
Found this on google:
Reeva and Oscar at Tashas All White Party on the 26.1.2013
with pic:

View attachment 64888


Don't know, what happened there. The "normal" jealousy problem, I think. OP doesn't look well, it seems to me.

also, in the wider crop of the picture you post... reeva wearing a new bracelet...
http://assets-s3.usmagazine.com/upl...1115008_oscar-pistorius-reeva-steenkamp_1.jpg

first referenced 21 jan 2013 on instagram by reeva
http://instagram.com/p/UvCd4qwPaV/?modal=true


imo, this could be the bracelet referred to by op... the trinket type, where you can add new/additional/replacement elements. similar to the pandora brand. maybe a christmas present, or a post-cape town visit present.
 
<Posts respectfully snipped>

Thanks Mr. F. Have never read this before. ... the comment made about Frank is the first I've ever heard about his reaction to that night.

Interested in your quote :" ..Frankie was traumatised, especially because... he'd heard nothing. It bothered him a lot and he tended to cry a lot initially" says C.Menalou.

Surely people are traumatised precisely because they have experienced a trauma at first hand? That's my understanding of it basically. You surely don't get traumatised by what you did not see or hear? Regret, shock feeling terrified.. yes, self-reproach maybe.... that you woke up to this scene oblivious to what had been taking place... but traumatised and tears that you can't stop?
Michelle Burger was traumatised by Reeva's screams so much she was still crying on the stand and could not get those screams out of her head for a long time.

...could explain how Frank entered OP's house and was told "get the *advertiser censored** outta my house"

Personally, I never bought OP's story that he had the presence of mind to unlock and open all the door before picking up Reeva with the intent of carrying her outside to his car

I’d say that “something” was very likely Oscar Pistorius, telling Frankie to get the hell out of the house and keep his mouth shut.

It never made sense to me that OP went downstairs and left the door open for others to enter. He only needed to unlock it.

If Frank either heard or saw something that alarmed him and he wanted to check what was happening inside the house, he would have used his key and gone inside. He must have had a key because he needed to keep the house in good order when OP was away.

Had Frank gone upstairs and witnessed the blood and/or Reeva, this certainly would have accounted for him being traumatised and crying a lot. If this is what happened, he's reacted as any normal person would. It's more than a little interesting that neither Stander, his wife (who was more concerned about the media getting hold of the story) nor Carice, broke down when they saw Reeva's shattered body at the foot of the stairs and blood spilling out all over the floor.

Had Frank gone upstairs and witnessed the above, it makes more sense to me that OP would have told Frank rather than Reeva to "Get the *advertiser censored** out of my house". If he'd said that to her, she could just as easily have said words to the effect, "Okay, okay, I'm going" instead of locking herself in the toilet. Once inside, she could have said, "Oscar, I'll come out if you let me leave" but there's no way she would have said that because if nothing else she could, if she had her phone, have rung the police, or alternatively, left the house and reported it to the police and he wouldn't have given her the opportunity to do either.
 
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