Post sentencing discussion and the upcoming appeal

[Mr Fossil]

Oscar Pistorius to appear in court on Tuesday

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6RYTozvUBI&feature=youtu.be

 

[Lux et Veritas]

OP says he asked Stander to call an ambulance in his bail statement but never mentions it again. The story thereafter is that he called Stander to help, which Stander confirms. I've always wondered why he originally said he called Stander to ask him to call an ambulance and yet OP's next call was to Netcare. Perhaps he asked Stander and Stander said it's best to call them yourself so that you can describe Reeva's injuries? Or he never asked Stander.

I think you're exactly right, Mr Fossil. OP never asked Stander to call Netcare. Along with his own no doubt blubbering, unintelligible, waffling phone call to Netcare (who bizarrely told him to bring Reeva himself lol... i.e., instant excuse to remove her from the horrific death scene), it's clear the LAST thing he wanted first on the scene was an ambulance or the cops.

They would have screwed up his carefully constructed screenplay.

Reeva had to be DEAD and Stander had to arrive FIRST.

 

[soozieqtips]

OP says he asked Stander to call an ambulance in his bail statement but never mentions it again. The story thereafter is that he called Stander to help, which Stander confirms. I've always wondered why he originally said he called Stander to ask him to call an ambulance and yet OP's next call was to Netcare. Perhaps he asked Stander and Stander said it's best to call them yourself so that you can describe Reeva's injuries? Or he never asked Stander.

I've mentioned this before, but OP said as he was carrying Reeva downstairs (remember he needed "help" to lift her...), that Stander told him to put Reeva down, as an ambulance was on its way. Was that OP's way of trying to incorporate his lie about having asked Stander to call for one?

Bear in mind no one had called an ambulance at that point. No one called for one until Dr Stipp turned up and asked Stander if he'd called an ambulance, to which he replied "No". Then Stipp got Stander to call for one while he was still there. So Stander, Carice and OP were all hanging around a severely injured woman, and NONE of them called an ambulance until Dr Stipp forced the issue.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

With the application for leave to appeal now just 4 days away, here's a reminder of the links to my various resources:

Key questions (KQ) - arising from phone data and beyond (supports WTA2)
Timeline (TIM) - 13/14 February 2013
Phone usage charts (PUC) - 3 tabs, one each for 5353, 4949 and 0020
WhatsApp messages (WAM) - from the trial and more
Witness locations (aerial) (WLA) - Silver Woods satellite view from May 2013
Witness locations (graphic) (WLG) - inc vacant plots and Guard Track locations
Witness testimony analysis (WTA) - based on evidence given
Witness testimony analysis 2 (WTA2) - possible Prosecution chronology based on Johnson's call time being fast (see also KQ)

Comments, corrections, additions and alternative views always welcome

If a new thread starts up I'll post again at the start of the thread.

Mr Fossil, you really are a Websleuths :Crown: treasure!

THANK YOU :loveyou: so much for all the hard work you do, for all the fine, detailed resources you so generously share.

 

[soozieqtips]

The parents of Reeva Steenkamp today backed calls for Shrien Dewani to give evidence over the murder of Anni Dewani - supporting her parents' campaign to ensure the case is not dismissed.

Barry and June Steenkamp urged the judge to make the accused face justice on Monday, and offered their condolences to Vinod and Nilam Hindocha whose daughter, like Reeva, was shot dead in South Africa.

Mr Steenkamp and Mr Hindocha spoke on the telephone from Port Elizabeth and Cape Town and discussed the similarities in their cases.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...sure-judge-make-face-justice-murder-Anni.html

 

[Cherwell]

I've mentioned this before, but OP said as he was carrying Reeva downstairs (remember he needed "help" to lift her...), that Stander told him to put Reeva down, as an ambulance was on its way. Was that OP's way of trying to incorporate his lie about having asked Stander to call for one?

Bear in mind no one had called an ambulance at that point. No one called for one until Dr Stipp turned up and asked Stander if he'd called an ambulance, to which he replied "No". Then Stipp got Stander to call for one while he was still there. So Stander, Carice and OP were all hanging around a severely injured woman, and NONE of them called an ambulance until Dr Stipp forced the issue.

Perhaps the reason nobody rushed to call an ambulance is that it was obvious that Reeva was already dead of an unsurvivable injury.

 

[soozieqtips]

Perhaps the reason nobody rushed to call an ambulance is that it was obvious that Reeva was already dead of an unsurvivable injury.

I agree, which is why it was such an obvious lie that OP asked Stander to call an ambulance, proved by the fact an ambulance didn't arrive until Dr Stipp got involved.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

I've mentioned this before, but OP said as he was carrying Reeva downstairs (remember he needed "help" to lift her...), that Stander told him to put Reeva down, as an ambulance was on its way. Was that OP's way of trying to incorporate his lie about having asked Stander to call for one?

Bear in mind no one had called an ambulance at that point. No one called for one until Dr Stipp turned up and asked Stander if he'd called an ambulance, to which he replied "No". Then Stipp got Stander to call for one while he was still there. So Stander, Carice and OP were all hanging around a severely injured woman, and NONE of them called an ambulance until Dr Stipp forced the issue.

I have no doubt that OP pulled the same incoherent, blubbering act on Netcare that he did on Baba. (No wonder an ambulance never showed up till Stipp got the ball rolling himself! Had Stipp never appeared at the crime scene, it’s likely only the cops would have called Netcare when they arrived at 3:55am.) Not only did OP simply want to get his obligatory calls to Netcare and security on the official call log, he wanted to make damn sure she was DEAD before paramedics arrived. It’s clear to me that even before Stipp arrived, Stander could see Reeva was already long dead.

What’s even more galling is that the good Dr. Stipp was among Masipa’s “unreliable”, trashed State witnesses. Geezus, he was the only one there trying to get her medical assistance!

Oh, and this is the same Olympic athlete who supposedly couldn’t lift Reeva (he calls an old guy for help LOL) - but miraculously, suddenly does exactly that all by himself with no problem. Stander just needed to show up and witness OP’s tragic descent down the stairs with his beloved, “dying” Reeva. When you really think about all the details of this murder, all the outlandish impossibilities and improbabilities, how all the tiny, damning pieces fit, Oscar really is an ice-cold, calculating, devious sociopath of the worst kind.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

I agree, which is why it was such an obvious lie that OP asked Stander to call an ambulance, proved by the fact an ambulance didn't arrive until Dr Stipp got involved.

Exactly. On OP’s version, both Stander and Reeva FAILED to do what he asked, call Netcare and police respectively. How is that possible, not once but TWICE?

Worse, OP “whispered/shouted/screamed” for Reeva to call the cops multiple times. It’s simply illogical that she - hearing her desperate boyfriend’s screams of alarm - would not even attempt to call the police and that Stander would refuse to call Netcare immediately if OP had requested it.

It’s a slam dunk OP never asked either of them to make calls.

Stander would logically assume OP had already called Netcare BEFORE calling him - as any reasonable person trying to save a life would instantly do.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

That white cable on the white couch can't be the missing cable ? Can it ? Lol

 

[44ALLAN]

Hi everyone,

Does someone perhaps have the link to OP's testimony where he said "I....I wanted to ask Reeva...why she was calling the police"?

Thank you so much in advance!

Is that the same testimony that the prosecution didn't pick up on and question him about it ?
No one on the team heard that?
Yeah rite !!!!

I flippin heard it .......................................

 

[Lux et Veritas]

You know ... this entire case is so very depressing. I’m tired.

Here we are, armchair sleuths who can pick apart, minutely dissect, fully reassemble all the parts into a highly logical whole and see the Big Ugly Picture (even if a couple chunks are missing) - while Masipa & Co. blithely hands down 24K garbage.

I fully suspect that in the month before the verdict, neither she nor her assessors ever went back over the evidence and testimony with a fine-tooth comb, except perhaps to re-read some fuzzy passage or view a disputed photo. They had long ago already made their decision. Masipa’s amateurish, sliced-and-diced, duck-taped verdict and sentence both reeked of having been cobbled together the night before (making corrections from the bench is a dead giveaway).

As many here noted at the time, when Masipa commented that she didn’t want to “punish” OP “twice” by requiring him to attend Westkoppies as an in-patient, she carelessly let slip her severe bias. How could she punish him twice when she had never even punished him once?! It’s clear now that she saw his “remorse” as sufficient punishment and had not Nel warned her about potential “mob justice” in his closing arguments, I have no doubt she would have given OP a suspended sentence and mansion arrest.

I simply cannot see the SCA upholding this monstrous miscarriage of justice - especially not with straight faces, their heads held high. (Masipa has essentially been rendered a laughingstock by a majority of the legal community and the public. That alone speaks volumes of the gross travesty of her judgement and sentence. Common sense in judging evidence and plain reading of unambiguous law does not require a law degree.)

I predict the SCA will bring down the hammer on both OP and Masipa.

 

[44ALLAN]

I've mentioned this before, but OP said as he was carrying Reeva downstairs (remember he needed "help" to lift her...), that Stander told him to put Reeva down, as an ambulance was on its way. Was that OP's way of trying to incorporate his lie about having asked Stander to call for one?

Bear in mind no one had called an ambulance at that point. No one called for one until Dr Stipp turned up and asked Stander if he'd called an ambulance, to which he replied "No". Then Stipp got Stander to call for one while he was still there. So Stander, Carice and OP were all hanging around a severely injured woman, and NONE of them called an ambulance until Dr Stipp forced the issue.

I have a feeling the Stipps/Johnson/Burger/Van der M ??................anyway...........I have a feeling they have been cuddled and placated non stop by the prosecution for them to keep schtum until the final outcome.........they must be livid/mortified/distraught/confused and bemused that their evidence has been ignored.
Their 'trauma', if that's the right word, must be horrendous after hearing this poor (Reeva) woman pleading for her life whilst being executed and they witnessed it only to be given nothing more than a cursory mention by the judge................"you never heard that Masipa said".... you heard Oscar.......................WTF !!! lmfao.

Hopefully the end of this 'Carry on Murdering' farce will begin to be equalised starting Tuesday 9th.
Appeal to SCA allowed.
OP................you are a murderer and the SCA finds that you murdered your girlfriend and indeed all the earwitnesses heard her pleading for her life.................Masipa and her assessors will be stood down from any court in the land immediately after this debacle of justice and will never set foot in a court again.
How they allowed this evidence to be 'casually' thrown out is incomprehensible .
We sincerely apologise to all the witnesses who heard this poor woman being slaughtered and to the world who are sickened by the initial judgement.

Mr.Pistorius.................carry on with your basketball school for the next 15 year then ask for payroll.
You are now officially a murderer.
And that's at best IMO.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

This shower thing of CM is a huge mystery to me, too. Maybe his hair was still wet when he arrived at OP's house and he thought that could have been noticed and wanted to mention that himself as if sth normal in between the interview .. Maybe he was already in the shower ?

AT EIGHT minutes past three on the morning of Valentine’s Day Christo Menelaou woke with a start. He’d heard what sounded like three thunderclaps.

At his home in the Silver Woods Estate east of Pretoria he lay in bed waiting for the rain to start.(he was awake )

Almost an hour later he went to the bathroom.

When he opened the window and looked outside he couldn’t believe his eyes. His window looks out onto an empty plot and Olympic and Paralympic athlete Oscar Pistorius’ house.

The two men are close friends.

“His house used to be in pitch darkness at night, except for one light that was always on,” Christo (34) says. But that night all the lights were on and there were blue and red lights flashing outside the house.

http://drum.co.za/celebs/hes-heartbroken/

 

[44ALLAN]

Perhaps the reason nobody rushed to call an ambulance is that it was obvious that Reeva was already dead of an unsurvivable injury.

I agree but only a certified doctor can make that call.................even if they/dead person are 'obviously deceased'.
Imagine if you or I walked into a hospital carrying a person and told the desk clerk..............he/she's dead !

And they said ok lets take them down to the morgue................ain't gonna happen where ever it is... it needs a certified doctor

 

[Cherwell]

I agree but only a certified doctor can make that call.................even if they/dead person are 'obviously deceased'.
Imagine if you or I walked into a hospital carrying a person and told the desk clerk..............he/she's dead !

And they said ok lets take them down to the morgue................ain't gonna happen where ever it is... it needs a certified doctor

Yes, of course - but it explains their lack of urgency.

 

[44ALLAN]

Yes, of course - but it explains their lack of urgency.

Well I personally think OP was going to dispose of the body and somehow cover it all up..............so he had no intention of calling anyone in authority at all.

Your lack of urgency = my concrete boots in the harbour IMO .

The intruder story only came to the fore when security started phoning and Stipp landed on his door step...................Frank and his best mate and the Standers have a lot more to tell of that there is no doubt just hope they sleep at night !.

What happened to the lady........................................................................

 

[soozieqtips]

Perhaps the reason nobody rushed to call an ambulance is that it was obvious that Reeva was already dead of an unsurvivable injury.

I meant to add that if the Standers and OP realised it was obvious Reeva was already dead, then it would be pointless for Carice to try and stop the bleeding from Reeva's arm and hip (with towels, black bags and tape...) when there was a visibly fatal head wound. And if anyone had thought there was hope, why did no one call an ambulance? Things just don't make sense, and I trust the Standers account of events about as much as I trust any of OP's multiple versions.

 

[44ALLAN]

I meant to add that if the Standers and OP realised it was obvious Reeva was already dead, then it would be pointless for Carice to try and stop the bleeding from Reeva's arm and hip (with towels, black bags and tape...) when there was a visibly fatal head wound. And if anyone had thought there was hope, why did no one call an ambulance? Things just don't make sense, and I trust the Standers account of events as much as I trust any of OP's multiple versions.

At what precise moment did Reeva 'bite down' and clamp her teeth into OP's fingers that's what I want to know!
Can she do that 'after'death?
After the head shot.............is it involuntary?
How many minutes 'after death' would her body be able to do that?
Bearing in mind the head shot killed her................OP then ran all over the place/phoned people and opened doors /ran up and down the stairs etc etc................but then !!! after all that time he was seen by the Standers carrying her down the stairs with her teeth and jaw muscles firmly clamped on his fingers eh!!.
Or did it happen at the bottom of the stairs?
Carice said OP told her to put her fingers in Reeva's mouth while he went for tape and black bags.
Then Dr.Stipp had to try and do a 'procedure' to unlock her jaw from his fingers!! wtf!
Something doesn't make sense there surely?
Was Clarice after or before Dr.Stipp?
When were OP's fingers locked in Reevas mouth?
If he lay her down at the bottom of the stairs as per the Standers testimony then how could his fingers be 'clamped' in Reevas' teeth when Stipp arrived?
She was dead a long time before this.................unless his fingers were 'clamped' in her mouth immediately after the shooting in the toilet when he put them there to stop her ................well you know the rest !!
I'm confused now lol

 

[Val1]

That white cable on the white couch can't be the missing cable ? Can it ? Lol

View attachment 64948

You mean the one that looks like it was already in someone's handbag...