Post sentencing discussion and the upcoming appeal

[Mr Fossil]

Mr. Fossil mentioned a few posts below this one saying he thought it might have been a conversation about the window. He's right about most things ( everything) so he may be right but I wrote my post the second after I heard that exchange and, as I sit here, now, still feel it's about the light.

Have to go vote (US) and do errands, then will come back and figure this out. If I am correct, I'll find the dates and times of the others for you.

THAT being said, MF has the entire transcript. If I'm wrong, I'm going to cry louder than OP because I think it really will confirm or me that I'm losing my mind. (not sarcasm)

I'd love you to be right, that would be a real gem if he'd said that but alas, I couldn't find it (the link to the transcript was in my original reply if you want to get yourself a copy. It's not always 100% accurate).

 

[ColonelMustard]

I do think that OP had beat the door up pretty good before he shot RS, I think this huge splinter could very well be evidence of that from before he shot her to death.
View attachment 62741

I don't see how a splinter that big could have fallen on her and then into the toilet once she had fallen back by the magazine rack and was cowering over the toilet before the final shot to her head.

When you take into account the angle of impact to make that first opening above the lock I would surmise that the chunk that broke through, splintered and that rather large piece flew into the room and fell into the toilet. After he decided to go get his gun RS probably was trying to listen to what he was doing when he returned and started firing. I think she could see him and he her, or at least enough of where she wasn't that he was able to aim close enough that he would have had to have hit her.
View attachment 62742

Thanks so much for this -AND- the closeup of the toilet bowl has such high resolution that I almost got sick to my stomach studying it.

 

[ColonelMustard]

Conflicting info AGAIN. So is the application going before Masipa or direct to the SCA?

Nathi Mncube ‏@mncube_nathi · 53m53 minutes ago
Now that the papers have been filed, we await the date of the hearing. The application for leave to appeal will be heard by
the same judge.

I like the way the NPA has worded the application.

Although recognising Masipa's position ( Honourable and Ladyship) they have also stated she 'erred' on several occasions.
Straight out they are telling her she was wrong.
They then tell her to make herself available to answer questions from the Supreme Court judges..............oh my!!
Like a naughty little schoolgirl:facepalm:

Well I'm sorry but I have absolutely no sympathy for her or her 2 assessors.
They cocked up big time.

A woman was heard screaming for her life and photo 55 shows the crime scene that morning and they totally ignored it all to go in favour of someone who they said was a bad witness etc etc.
disgraceful judgement..............lets hope the Supreme Court judges have more nous !.
As Nel has said once again............OP's testimony should have been thrown out and disregarded by the court......simple.

Really! The SC gets to/will actually question MASIPA????
Will that be in private?
If so, will the transcript be available later?

ANYTHING to get some clue about what she could POSSIBLY have been thinking in this clusterf*ck

 

[ColonelMustard]

You'd have thought not. The judge is responsible for the sentence (as she clarified when she appeared for sentencing with her Assessors at each side) and the law. The Assessors assist with fact. But I don't know for certain.

Since they help with facts, not only should be questioned, they should be fired.

I mean, the verdict gave the wrong locations of Reeva's wounds a couple of times!!

 

[ColonelMustard]

BBM - I still don't believe it was Uncle Arnold who asked for the restriction on alcohol to be lifted. As far as family input goes, it could well be that Roux discussed the matter with O. Pistorius.

UBM - I think the reason police didn't rush OP off for an alcohol test first thing was because they saw no evidence that OP was under the influence of alcohol. (Had they thought so, imo they could have given him a simple breath-analysis onsite which would indicate whether or not they needed to put a rush having him further tested.)

RE: Last sentence in Soozie's post: It was Uncle A. who incorrectly thought OP never drank. Roux and OP knew better. I believe that the reason behind Roux asking the Court to remove the restriction was twofold. #1 It was an unreasonable restriction due to neither the DT nor the PT claiming that OP was drinking the night he killed RS. #2 The restriction could imply that alcohol was involved.

Just my opinion, but I think there was no Breathalyzer test because they:

1. He was THE Oscar Pistorius
2. They believed what he was saying.

 

[Interested Bystander]

OT but interesting.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Policeman-acquitted-of-wifes-murder-20141103

Chris Mangena got this cop off a murder wrap. The mind boggles!

 

[foxbluff]

Here's the PDF of the appeal. Forgive me if it's already been posted. I'm all behind.

http://www.pod702.co.za/Eyewitnessnews/docs/141104NPA.pdf

Thanks so much for this. How lucky are we to get our grubby little paws on a transcript of the appeal this soon after filing!?!? I'm off to read...

 

[akp]

OT but interesting.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Policeman-acquitted-of-wifes-murder-20141103

Chris Mangena got this cop off a murder wrap. The mind boggles!

If the news report is to be believed, then

In a report, Mangena said in his view Leah Nkuna had probably been sitting in the bath and her wounds were most likely self-inflicted, although the possibility of someone else inflicting them could not be ruled out.

and

Mangena was adamant the crime scene had been tampered with and the murder weapon and cartridge case removed from the scene.

In other words, she committed suicide, then removed the waapon from the scene! I do not know what to make of it.

 

[delilah]

Can I just say I'm so glad I'm not the only person who is currently spending her free time reliving Nel vs OP. It's amazing how much I missed the first time round, and listening to Nel going for the jugular is just breathtaking. I've just heard him snap at the DT for daring to talk during his cross exam (Oldfart whispering to Roux) - wow, who let the dogs out indeed! Go, Nel! Time now to read the NPA's grounds for appeal.

I have admitted my PTO (Pistorius Trial Obsession) to only a few close friends, and they all think I'm a bit nutty.

 

[delilah]

Thanks so much for this. How lucky are we to get our grubby little paws on a transcript of the appeal this soon after filing!?!? I'm off to read...

The grounds are nothing like I expected. Application for appeal against sentencing is quite brutal and full of hyperbole - I was expecting a load of legal jargon.

Maybe a tad too many whereases in the grounds for appeal against the verdict? : )

Nel and Johnson certainly haven't pulled their punches.

 

[AW2B]

Has this been discussed? This is so confusing..are they or are they not going directly to SCA???

I found this on twitter:

Mandy Wiener @MandyWiener · 11h 11 hours ago
#OscarPistorius The NPA wants to go directly to the Supreme Court of Appeal in Bloemfontein - not a full bench of the High Court.

 

[Fuskier]

Not read the appeal yet but already see from page 2 - solicitor Brian Webbers address is in Illovo.
http://www.pod702.co.za/Eyewitnessnews/docs/141104NPA.pdf

Remember all our conjecture re where Op was day of 13th feb? His evidence was that he was supposedly one appointment was a "financial meeting". I always thought that that meeting was pertaining to Cassidy-Memmory case and was the "sh£tty thing...and your'e a nice guy ...i don't know how to console you ...."etc referred to in the Reeva Oscar texts that day and reason he was so annoyed.

Earlier on in this thread, someone linked to a news article that says he was at a lawyers in Illovo daytime of 13th. So I am totally convinced now on that one - source of his initial mood was CM case still hanging over him. Didn't expect Webber would reveal that of course, sat in court all these months with his red face.

Anyway, jumping of from that then....emotionally blackmailed by OP to stay over as he had had a bad day, Cassidy-Memmory case was not settled....all because OP was violent towards a woman in his own home .... hours later kills a woman.
I could go on and on but I want to read the court papers that you've all kindly linked too....otherwise i really will have to get into all of these boxes from the loft!!!

BIB A precipitating factor? Agreed. Highly likely IMO.

 

[pandax81]

Really! The SC gets to/will actually question MASIPA????
Will that be in private?
If so, will the transcript be available later?

ANYTHING to get some clue about what she could POSSIBLY have been thinking in this clusterf*ck

Probably some misunderstanding of the terminology.

It is Masipa who is being requested by the prosecution to put questions (of law) to the SCA. This is the form by which the state 'appeals the conviction'.

However, Masipa must write a report for the SCA "giving her opinion upon the case or upon any point arising in the case" if she grants the appeal, or if she refuses and the state petitions the SCA as a consequence.

 

[mrjitty]

OT but interesting.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Policeman-acquitted-of-wifes-murder-20141103

Chris Mangena got this cop off a murder wrap. The mind boggles!

I have been wondering if parts of the investigation might have been bungled or not well investigated.

The whole Botha business, and some of the bizarre failures to produce detailed evidence on the technical side.

I was recently read the London Met scandals where cops deliberately sabotaged investigations and compromised evidence.

Oh to be a fly on the wall!

 

[lithgow1]

The quote below is from The Guardian. Carl P, in fact all of the P's, could take a leaf or two from June Steenkamp's book IMO. And to be honest, I guess I could too - I don't think there is any way I could be as forgiving, ambivalent even, about her daughter's killer as she appears to be. I guess deliberately adopting such an attitude is her way of finding some sort of acceptance of and peace with what happened but it takes a special kind of strength that I doubt many possess, myself included.

Steenkamp’s mother, June, said the appeal was a matter for state prosecutors rather than her family.

“This is now their job,” she told the Guardian. “They’re not happy with the verdict and sentence because they feel there were mistakes made. It’s not really going to affect me. It’s going to affect Oscar maybe but that’s not my business.”

She said the prosecutor had been hugely disappointed by Masipa’s verdict. “He did his utmost best. He’s devastated now, Gerrie Nel, but I can only say that he pulled his guts out for Reeva. He always spoke of her and he was doing his best. He did the best job anybody could do.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/04/oscar-pistorius-prosecutors-appeal-against-verdict

 

[44ALLAN]

I'm almost done re-watching OPs cross examination.

At least as I'm hearing it, when he was first recounting how he moved along the passage to the bathroom, he had previously said that it was pitch dark in the bedroom. When Nel asked how he could see where he was walking, OP said he was able to make out the bathtub(?), faintly because the bathroom was somewhat illuminated by ambient light coming in from the outside.

At a mid-point in OP's testimony, Nel pressed him hard about the light again and how it had been seen on. He asked OP who had turned it on. OP denied it was him and denied it was Reeva. Nel then gave him the old, "Well, if it wasn't you and it wasn't Reeva, who did turn it on? ...

On the final morning of OP's testimony (4/15), Nel asked him, again, who turned on the light. Now, without skipping a beat, he said Reeva did. Nel asked whether she turned it on before or after she went into the toilet. OP said it was before. Nel, asked him again to verify that's what he said, and OP said straight out, again, that Reeva had turned it on and it was before she went into the toilet.

Beyond being so confused that he didn't know what he was saying, if he was tailoring this story, too, it would have been in the wrong direction, would it not?

Anyway, re-watching this after such a long time and knowing what I know , now, OP's detailed inconsistencies are much easier for me to identify.

Sis.................everything OP said was a lie.
He knew where she was and he knew what he was doing it's as simple as that.

The prosecution know it...........
The defence know it..............
The judge knew it...........
The assessors for sure knew it...............
99.9% of the worlds lawyers know it.............
99.99999% of the world watching this FARCE know it................

He's a murdering and I'm lost for words why this 'application' is still mentioning /................ bordering on DE.
Why Nel?
It was murder.
You asked for it originally and your asking for it now ....AFTER the trial !!
He flippin knew where she was and he executed her and half the bloody estate heard it..............geezus wept ( nice geordie phrase and not religious at all btw )
You blew the trial being a puppy dog against all reviews of being a pitbull.....................given your chance by Masipa you asked for 10 year minimum !!!!!! wtf !!
She gave 5 year neigh 10 month !.
What was that all about eh !!!

Sod the respect to the court...............you should have said " M'lady I'm sorry but your verdict is a whole pile of crap and half the world is baying for your head do you want to consider? "
That is basically what you have just done with this application to appeal.
Lots of people making lots of money...............it stinks it really does.

4 witnesses to a woman screaming for her life just before the same witnesses heard loud noises/gunshots at the same time a women was butchered with gunshots in the same estate!
A photo ( 55) taken by the police photographer when entering the scene which totally and I mean TOTALLY shows the accused is lying and the judge and her assessors ignore this !

Sorry to all you Nel supporters out there but I could have prosecuted the case better than this and I'm an Electrician fgs !

Anyway rant over



You asked for murder originally why not stick to it..................probably too late now even though the appeal sounds good................you should have said all that during the trial though fgs !

 

[Interested Bystander]

I have been wondering if parts of the investigation might have been bungled or not well investigated.

The whole Botha business, and some of the bizarre failures to produce detailed evidence on the technical side.

I was recently read the London Met scandals where cops deliberately sabotaged investigations and compromised evidence.

Oh to be a fly on the wall!

I am stunned. They both lived in the same house, she was dead in the bath when he went to use it in the morning, the gun and cartridge had disappeared, he did not hear a gunshot, he had residue on his righthand, he was known to have threatened her. How on earth could Chris Mangena have even suggested it could have been suicide with gun and cartridge having been removed? I thought he was good but he has gone down in my estimation. This has to have been a "fix" from within the police force much like the Met Police scandals you mention. It shows just how cheap life is in SA and especially if one is a woman.

 

[LemonMousse]

Sis.................everything OP said was a lie.
He knew where she was and he knew what he was doing it's as simple as that.

The prosecution know it...........
The defence know it..............
The judge knew it...........
The assessors for sure knew it...............
99.9% of the worlds lawyers know it.............
99.99999% of the world watching this FARCE know it................

He's a murdering and I'm lost for words why this 'application' is still mentioning /................ bordering on DE.
Why Nel?
It was murder.
You asked for it originally and your asking for it now ....AFTER the trial !!
He flippin knew where she was and he executed her and half the bloody estate heard it..............geezus wept ( nice geordie phrase and not religious at all btw )
You blew the trial being a puppy dog against all reviews of being a pitbull.....................given your chance by Masipa you asked for 10 year minimum !!!!!! wtf !!
She gave 5 year neigh 10 month !.
What was that all about eh !!!

Sod the respect to the court...............you should have said " M'lady I'm sorry but your verdict is a whole pile of crap and half the world is baying for your head do you want to consider? "
That is basically what you have just done with this application to appeal.
Lots of people making lots of money...............it stinks it really does.

4 witnesses to a woman screaming for her life just before the same witnesses heard loud noises/gunshots at the same time a women was butchered with gunshots in the same estate!
A photo ( 55) taken by the police photographer when entering the scene which totally and I mean TOTALLY shows the accused is lying and the judge and her assessors ignore this !

Sorry to all you Nel supporters out there but I could have prosecuted the case better than this and I'm an Electrician fgs !

Anyway rant over



You asked for murder originally why not stick to it..................probably too late now even though the appeal sounds good................you should have said all that during the trial though fgs !

Agree with every word....but...DE IS murder. It's not manslaughter or murder lite....proper full on murder. That should make you feel a bit better!

 

[emirates1957]

I don't know if this a stupid question or not. Could the ricochet alone in a small tiled cubicle be enough to kill somebody?

 

[LemonMousse]

I don't know if this a stupid question or not. Could the ricochet alone in a small tiled cubicle be enough to kill somebody?

Yes...most definitely.