Post sentencing discussion

[Mr Fossil]

When I click the link Mr Fossil provided...I get a page that has a link..if you click that link..you will get to his screen that has the timelines and witness statements..

Hope that works for you..

Thanks for helping. I hadn't realised it wasn't working properly. I've tested the links with Chrome and IE11 and in both instances the files open immediately for me without having to click anything else.

I've now added a separate tab in each of the spreadsheets that provides links to all the other resources, so once you're in one you can easily find the others. Have still to add the same facility to the Word documents (the witness location maps).

Here's a reminder of what's available:

Phone usage charts GPRS and call charts for each phone (0020, 4949, 5353) derived from displayed ZZ exhibits
Timeline Covers 13-14 February 2013
Witness locations (aerial) Google Earth view, showing where the witnesses live and empty plots at the time
Witness locations (graphic) A graphic version of the above, with Guard Track locations indicated
Witness testimony analysis A detailed analysis of the witnesses testimony as given
Witness testimony analysis 2 An analysis of the witness testimony based on Johnson's call time being inaccurate (a possible Prosecution chronology)

These files, especially 'Witness testimony analysis 2', are updated frequently so it's worth checking them out every now and again. They're put up for discussion purposes and I welcome additions, corrections and alternative views.

 

[Lyra500]

Martin Hood said they were going to appeal both the verdict and the sentence, and perhaps appeal the factual findings, too. I imagine it will be the new judges who decide on all those factors, but I'm not sure. As for a retrial, I thought there couldn't be one, but...

Professor James Grant, from Wits Law School, said Pistorius could face a retrial.

"The State is allowed in exceptional circumstances to appeal when the court makes a mistake of law".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...295/Could-Oscar-Pistorius-face-a-retrial.html

Seriously?

Right from the beginning again?

Oh my goodness.

I'm not sure my constitution could take it - can't they just look at the verdict and the sentence, declare them a load of bobbins and replace them with something sensible?

 

[sleuth-d-]

RBBM

That's pretty common for a narcissist actually. They're incredibly manipulative and attempt to control everyone and everything. The most successful are often high-powered CEO's and entrepreneurs - but even they often have chaotic, 'out of control' social lives - multiple divorces, poor relationships with peers, family, and their kids, etc. It's gotta be like a juggler keeping 20 balls up in the air - their whole being is based on lies, manipulation, control and a fragile facade - and eventually a ball, or ten, are going to fall. No one can tell a narcissist where they're going wrong because narcissists are never wrong. Never. And...if someone does call them out for their bad behaviour, a narcissist will adapt their behaviour to be more covert (like less physical, but more emotional or financial abuse) or the narcissist will simply cut ties - totally - with their detractors.

Personally, if I'm right with my armchair dx, I don't see OP learning any lessons from this experience. Not killing Reeva, not facing trial, not prison, and not post-prison restrictions. OP, if he is a narcissist, will always feel he is 'above' any punishment and is being maliciously persecuted. I'm not an optimist when it comes to NPD - they're highly resistant to treatment as nothing is wrong with them - it's the rest of the world at fault. And in this case no treatment will even be available since apparently nothing is amiss. Um. Yeah. Okay.

In prison, I think he will adapt very well - that's what narcissists do out of necessity for survival - they adapt constantly and become highly skilled at it.

JMO and FWIW

ETA: An appeal! :confetti:

based on your thinking here, do you believe he would repeat the offence... i.e. the amount of prison time will not make any difference to his behaviour once released.

 

[ColonelMustard]

Good nights read .. . or morning reading . . wherever you are, it's a good read

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/opinionista/2014-10-27-the-pistorius-appeal-bring-it-on/#.VE65HyKG-Sp

Hey, I thought you went off to bed or to take a nap or something. You're back. fftobed:

 

[ColonelMustard]

Miss/Mrs Colonel lol.................I'm with you all the way .

Forgive me for this though please..................I'm really feeling sorry for him tonight I really am.

44Allan, are you really?? That's OK.

We must have been separated at birth because for a nanosecond, I felt sorry for OP, too.

Not only that, but I also felt sorry for Masipa for a minute.

Then, I snapped right out of both. :fireworks::fireworks::fireworks::fireworks::fireworks::fireworks:

 

[cottonweaver]

Seriously?

Right from the beginning again?

Oh my goodness.

I'm not sure my constitution could take it - can't they just look at the verdict and the sentence, declare them a load of bobbins and replace them with something sensible?

Personally, I think opportunity of a re-trial would be great although I think it's very, very remote. It's the only way we would ever get to dolus directus.

Not sure all the ear witnesses would feel the same- after the way they were treated in court in Cross exam.

And how on earth would the Defence find any credible experts- they already scraped the bottom of that barrel and it's come up dry.

Agreed - declaration of "bobbins" will be made and then more:jail:

Also, re Zweibel's interesting post upthread - prison could have been the treatment OP needed, but after the appeal announcement I can't see him settling down to do his time at all.
Doubt the "venerable" OP will be quite so keen to run his prison Literacy classes now- which is probably a good thing! What was he going to teach them - Oscar speak?

 

[Mamadoos]

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Carl.

Do us all a favour mate and don't patronise us thank you very much.

It is 'evidently' clear that your brother 'murdered' Reeva.
The ear witnesses were not lying about what they heard.
Photo 55 shows quite clearly that your brothers version is quite frankly a 'crock of sXXZ' and a total lie.
Half the world can see this....................he murdered her mate quite simple.
Someone heard an argument/raised voices just before he blew her brains out ffs.

You know it...........Aimee knows it.............Unc Arnold knows it and so does the Defence team who have blagged their way through this farce from day one.
Disgraceful from the lot of you.

So please stop insulting our intelligence with your silly meaningless tweets TIA.

Your brother is a murderer...............live with it.....................Reeva can't !

I love how you always tell it straight! In total agreement.

 

[cottonweaver]

Miss/Mrs Colonel lol.................I'm with you all the way .

Forgive me for this though please..................I'm really feeling sorry for him tonight I really am.

I thought that was a dose of British sarcasm- am I wrong?

 

[AW2B]

I've added a second tab to my new interpretation of the witness testimony to test the time events take, their logical dependencies and constraints, and to confirm whether the suggested sequence is plausible. So far, so good, but it's still a work in progress. Views on event times or concerns are welcome.

Mr Fossil..this is the link I was referring to..it takes me to a page that has a link that would take me to your page..

 

[sleuth-d-]

Published on Oct 21, 2014
Oscar Pistorius's uncle, Arnold, says the sprinter's family accepts the court's judgement, after the athlete was sentenced to five years in a South African jail for the culpable homicide of his girlfriend.

Oscar Pistorius's uncle on Tuesday said the sprinter's family accepted the court's judgement, after "The Blade Runner" was sentenced to five years in a South African jail for the culpable homicide of his girlfriend.

"The court has now handed down judgement and sentence, and we accept the judgement," said Arnold Pistorius in a statement outside court. "Oscar will embrace this opportunity to pay back to society."

"This has been an incredibly hard and painful process for everyone involved, the Steenkamp family, our family and Oscar," he said.

"We are all emotionally drained," he said. "The case that was set down for three weeks originally has been dragged out for seven months."

He criticised the state for trying to find the 27-year-old guilty of premeditated murder and the "collateral damage" caused by that persistence.

"One of the most distressful parts for me of this whole trial, was how the truth became totally irrelevant for the state's attempt to make the premeditated murder stick."

A day after Pistorius's brother and sister launched a media blitz to affirm Oscar Pistorius's innocence, Arnold Pistorius called for privacy.

"I appeal to all of you as the media, to accept the ruling of the court, after 20 months of relentless public trial, I would ask ladies and gentleman of the media to let us move forward in this process."

He added that "as an uncle, I hope Oscar will start his own healing process as he walks down the path of restoration. As a family, we are ready to support and guide Oscar as he serves his sentence."

http://youtu.be/m7NyohKOOFw

==============
(My bold, above.)

Uncle Arthur, you'd better buck up.

The truth will set YOU free and, in case you didn't notice, the NPA has just pulled the plug on your emotional drain. :bath:

"As a family, we are ready to support and guide Oscar as he serves his sentence."

all the support op needs... in those carrier bags, but no support as far as his legal bill goes.

tbf, i can imagine op is going to need some serious support in the coming days, having first to come to terms with actually being in prison [i always thought he would do anything to avoid this] ... now comes the knowledge of the appeal. [i assume the lawyers' visit would have been to brief him on this possibility]

 

[ColonelMustard]

Thanks for helping. I hadn't realised it wasn't working properly. I've tested the links with Chrome and IE11 and in both instances the files open immediately for me without having to click anything else.

I've now added a separate tab in each of the spreadsheets that provides links to all the other resources, so once you're in one you can easily find the others. Have still to add the same facility to the Word documents (the witness location maps).

Here's a reminder of what's available:

Phone usage charts GPRS and call charts for each phone (0020, 4949, 5353) derived from displayed ZZ exhibits
Timeline Covers 13-14 February 2013
Witness locations (aerial) Google Earth view, showing where the witnesses live and empty plots at the time
Witness locations (graphic) A graphic version of the above, with Guard Track locations indicated
Witness testimony analysis A detailed analysis of the witnesses testimony as given
Witness testimony analysis 2 An analysis of the witness testimony based on Johnson's call time being inaccurate (a possible Prosecution chronology)

These files, especially 'Witness testimony analysis 2', are updated frequently so it's worth checking them out every now and again. They're put up for discussion purposes and I welcome additions, corrections and alternative views.

Mr. Fossil, I know that you don't sleuth for a living but have you ever seriously given it any thought?

You're REALLY good at it! And we appreciate you very much.

:websleuther:

 

[WilliamMunter]

Who is the woman hugging OP?

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2014/10/14/pistorius-went-the-extra-mile-for-children-manager

Kayla Nolan, alpha Pistorian. She has some sort of disability and a shrine to Pistorius in her house.

 

[Mr Fossil]

Mr Fossil..this is the link I was referring to..it takes me to a page that has a link that would take me to your page..

Aha! My mistake, sorry, the link shouldn't have a '+' at the end. Please use the links I posted above. Witness testimony analysis 2 is the new interpretation.

Thanks for letting me know.

As an aside, the '+' at the end gives me stats for each file. I can see how many hits it gets and whereabouts in the world the hits are coming from (e.g. country) so I know if they're proving of interest or not. Makes the world seem a very small place!

 

[Fuskier]

NPA has just announced decision to appeal verdict and sentence.

YES! It's a good day. Hopefully the NPA will seek the full bench. There is much agreement that an Appeal is warranted for several reasons, not the least including legal reasons for clarifying the SA law for lower courts.

 

[AW2B]

44Allan, are you really?? That's OK.

We must have been separated at birth because for a nanosecond, I felt sorry for OP, too.

Not only that, but I also felt sorry for Masipa for a minute.

Then, I snapped right out of both. :fireworks::fireworks::fireworks::fireworks::fireworks::fireworks:

It's okay to feel sorry for OP for ONLY a nanosecond...but...but..
feeling sorry for Masipa for a WHOLE minute is too much..I'm glad you snapped out of both..


:fireworks:

 

[Mr Fossil]

Mr. Fossil, I know that you don't sleuth for a living but have you ever seriously given it any thought?

You're REALLY good at it! And we appreciate you very much.

:websleuther:

Thank you. Would I have to buy a deerstalker and a pipe?!

 

[44ALLAN]

44Allan, are you really?? That's OK.

We must have been separated at birth because for a nanosecond, I felt sorry for OP, too.

Not only that, but I also felt sorry for Masipa for a minute.

Then, I snapped right out of both. :fireworks::fireworks::fireworks::fireworks::fireworks::fireworks:

Yup fraid so.....................I am really feeling sorry for him even though i know he is a murderer.
Dunno why to tell the truth because I would pull the lever on the gallows no problem if it was the verdict.
Very strange I must admit but hey i can't help my feelings.

ps
I feel sorry for Masipa too.....................what a mess they have both made of their lives although I doubt Masipa could have foreseen this outcome at the beginning of the trial !

Lol @ separated at birth....................hi sis

 

[44ALLAN]

I thought that was a dose of British sarcasm- am I wrong?

Hi cw....................it's not sarcasm I'm genuinely feeling sorry for the guy for what he has done to his life and his family and friends.

Hope that answers your question as I can feel the animosity toward my statement..............or was I wrong?

 

[Estelle]

Miss/Mrs Colonel lol.................I'm with you all the way .

Forgive me for this though please..................I'm really feeling sorry for him tonight I really am.

IMO it just goes to show that he should have pleaded guilty to murder in the first place and saved his money.

THIS IS KARMA (But only if the appeal is SUCCESSFUL, of course, which I predict it will be.)

I am so glad he will not be out on bail too awaiting this. I think they will want to keep him in prison until the results of the Appeal are known.

 

[Libra230]

This is very good news! My first time watching a trial and I was hooked not only with the trial but the sheer tenacity and informative posting in this forum!
I have lingered in the background reading the post sentence thread and waiting hopefully to hear that there would be an appeal.
I may have to hang around for the next stage of this car crash trial...but I will be in excellent company if you share my view that OP deserves much more than he got...It is not vengeance but Justice that has to be served.