Post sentencing discussion

[Cherwell]

Yes it is worrying. I'm rapidly getting cynical again.

So, if Massipa doesn't budge, and denies the appeal, that's it?

No, I think they can then appeal directly to the Supreme Court.

 

[cottonweaver]

I'm afraid I can't agree with that. I was very disappointed with his final arguments. I expected him to make a compelling narrative of the prosecution's version, but he did not. He didn't present a clear order of events, and allowed Masipa to take Roux's deceptive timeline as common cause. This should have been spelled out much more clearly. His "Baker's Dozen" failed to impress me at the start - I felt that there were better points to be highlighted.

I agree with a lot of the above Cherwell. Doubtless Nel will have had some niggling regrets about the way he played it at certain points.( ie He is bound to be self -critical, he is a top prosecutor - you don't get to be that successful without self/ "post-match" analysis. )

As one possible explanation for Nel focusing mainly on Baker's Dozen, I think he was understandably underscoring the lack of credibility of OP's account, as main witness, as key to the case. I remember reading quite a few legal analysts during trial days saying that if Masipa viewed OP's testimony as unreliable & suspect she would have no choice to strike it all out and then instead she would have to focus on state's case and witnesses - as the only other evidence, basically. (Will try and find the links but many of our old posts have been wiped here on WS)

Unfortunately she did not do that and instead went with the comms data as the backbone of the facts, and even worse Roux's version of that data. Plus instead of striking out his testimony as she did with Vergeer she did in fact believe parts* of his testimony despite saying he was unreliable. (Then she topped it off with the point about subjectivity - what was in his mind at the time, he intended to shoot but not to kill. Perverse. Plus mis-application of legal distinctions.) Did Nel expect that*? It seems not. Would love to read Nel's account, in the future, of why he presented the case as he did and whether he thinks he miscalculated in terms of reading the judge.

As Mr Fossil and AJDS before him, have pointed out some of this data is suspect and incomplete anyway and SAPS did not do a good enough job on this part of the investigation.

I think even Masipa will have, by now, via ANC Women's League etc, come across accounts which arguably, demonstrate OP has a history of DV of which the killing of Reeva was a culmination, even though it was never mentioned throughout the trial.
She must also have been back to re-read distinctions of dolus eventualis and error in persona etc. Can't see her writing he memoirs or ever feeling need to justify it, even after retirement.

Way back on verdict day, I expressed my empathy for her - how mortified she must when she wakes in the morning be.... blah blah. When she then later, purposefully picked a sentence not exceeding 5 years which allowed early release on house arrest I realised my "sympathy" was mis-placed. She doesn't need it She is a grown woman who has shown she can stand up for herself and her own viewpoint even if she is wrong.

 

[04009margaret]

It has also emerged that the athlete sported a mysterious black eye in a video filmed a month ago for a charity campaign.

The Paralympian lent his support to a South African *campaign for gay and lesbian youth. But charity bosses were surprised when he turned up for filming with a black eye.

In the video message recorded to raise awareness for the It Gets Better campaign in South Africa, Oscar instructed young people who were being bullied about their sexuality to 'not retaliate'.

An It Gets Better charity source told the Sunday Mirror: 'Oscar turned up on the day of filming with a very angry *looking black eye.

'Oscar was keen for the filming to still go ahead and didn’t seem to mind too much. Although eyebrows were raised, Oscar wasn’t forthcoming on how he managed to get the injury.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ay-arrives-Pistoriuss-home.html#ixzz3HPYUbNbQ
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

http://www.mambaonline.com/article.asp?artid=7888

PISTORIUS DROPPED FROM GAY YOUTH CAMPAIGN
Mon, 18 February 2013

Maybe, this is another "accident/incident" which is still missing on the long list, JJ?

Could this be the same black eye?

"He claimed Pistorius had a bad temper, and that at the meeting the athlete had a black eye because he had been involved in a fight with a friend the night before. “The man I heard on the phone is a different man from the image given out there. He carries a gun everywhere and I have seen him be controlling to women.”

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/tales-of-oscar-s-temper-and-threats-1.1471504#.VE-UbfmUeSo

 

[JudgeJudi]

A couple of questions:

1. Do you think OP could attend if he wanted to?

2. To save trees, time, and expense -- and move the court into the 21st Century -- can't the panel receive everything on CDs vs. printing everything out?

3. Won't they fast-track it because it's this case?

1) As he's in the big house, I doubt it. It's only legal argument between counsel.

2) I agree, but that's what I've read many times. PC's etc are used in court but hard copies are always provided.

3) Everything I've seen says 18 months if it's the Supreme Court of Appeal.

 

[Libra230]

Libra, until the regular Welcome Wagon sleuthers appear, let me temporarily assume that role so you know how glad we are to have you come out of the closet and join us in the trenches.

:wagon:

Thank you for your warm welcome ColonelMustard....Interesting times ahead and I hope Reeva Steenkamp gets justice.

 

[LaLaw2000]

"I do declare" means "thank you" and is said as one blushes. :blushing:

I'm from the deep south as in Louisiana. "I do declare" does not mean "thank you." Most often it meant surprise at what was being said, or even a mild form of expressing a distaste of something. Of course it doesn't matter and the saying is extremely very rarely said anymore.

I came back to this thread to ask if it is really true there will be an appeal in this case. I still don't know the answer!

Thanks!

 

[Cherwell]

So OP had a black eye in January, 2013 as the article you posted said it happened a month before. The article is dated 25 February, 2013. Has the video ever appeared online?

I don't remember a video, but I do remember seeing photos of an event where Pistorius had a visibly black eye.

(My internet connection is often slow, so I don't always watch videos.)

 

[Cherwell]

I came back to this thread to ask if it is really true there will be an appeal in this case. I still don't know the answer!

Thanks!

Certainly it's true that the NPA intends to appeal. It's been widely reported in the mainstream media.

 

[04009margaret]

I'm from the deep south as in Louisiana. "I do declare" does not mean "thank you." Most often it meant surprise at what was being said, or even a mild form of expressing a distaste of something. Of course it doesn't matter and the saying is extremely very rarely said anymore.

I came back to this thread to ask if it is really true there will be an appeal in this case. I still don't know the answer!

Thanks!

BBM

As previously posted this will answer your questions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo_mjQpcii4&list=UU8yH-uI81UUtEMDsowQyx1g#t=43

 

[JudgeJudi]

It has also emerged that the athlete sported a mysterious black eye in a video filmed a month ago for a charity campaign.

The Paralympian lent his support to a South African *campaign for gay and lesbian youth. But charity bosses were surprised when he turned up for filming with a black eye.

In the video message recorded to raise awareness for the It Gets Better campaign in South Africa, Oscar instructed young people who were being bullied about their sexuality to 'not retaliate'.

An It Gets Better charity source told the Sunday Mirror: 'Oscar turned up on the day of filming with a very angry *looking black eye.

'Oscar was keen for the filming to still go ahead and didn’t seem to mind too much. Although eyebrows were raised, Oscar wasn’t forthcoming on how he managed to get the injury.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ay-arrives-Pistoriuss-home.html#ixzz3HPYUbNbQ
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

http://www.mambaonline.com/article.asp?artid=7888

PISTORIUS DROPPED FROM GAY YOUTH CAMPAIGN
Mon, 18 February 2013

Maybe, this is another "accident/incident" which is still missing on the long list, JJ?

I'd say it should definitely go in. I found another one too where he raged about his pre-Olympic kit. Now I've just got to find my notes amongst my pages and pages on the PC plus handwritten notes. So that's 2 more. I'll keep the list going and maybe post once a week. There's bound to be more. I don't want to bore anyone.

 

[LaLaw2000]

If an appeal is truly in the works, then I am happy. Important facts of a case get lost when there are endless delays once a trial gets started, early adjournment, days off, and so forth.

I don't feel sorry for OP as some people do (as is their right). This is not a long enough sentence for snuffing out a beautiful young woman at the verge of success. OP has always been on a path of destruction and will continue to be. MOO

Masipa did not want OP to be convicted or spend one day in confinement, IMO, and neither did the female advocate. I don't care for either of them and feel they did not do an honest job of it. It would not have been the same for just a regular person on the street. A regular person would have gotten the maximum sentence, IMO.

This is all just my opinion.

:moo:

 

[Libra230]

:welcome6: It's never too late to join in here. The more the merrier. 99% share your views as you'll soon discover.

Thank you Judgejudi..I like that both the verdict AND the sentence are to be challenged.

 

[LaLaw2000]

BBM

As previously posted this will answer your questions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo_mjQpcii4&list=UU8yH-uI81UUtEMDsowQyx1g#t=43

Yes, I have seen this. It hasn't happened yet and he mentions Nov. 3. I don't know, but I just don't take his word for it as definite.

Thank you though.

ETA: I will believe this when I see it.

 

[JudgeJudi]

So OP had a black eye in January, 2013 as the article you posted said it happened a month before. The article is dated 25 February, 2013. Has the video ever appeared online?

Why are we surprised. Look at the people he hangs out with and their enemies. Maybe he was caught in the cross-fire. Sorry, poor choice of word there. Marc Batchelor would be one who'd just love to give the poster boy a black eye. And this is before Valentine's Day.

 

[LaLaw2000]

Certainly it's true that the NPA intends to appeal. It's been widely reported in the mainstream media.

I have been wrapped up in another trial and saw nothing about this until last night.

Thank you!

 

[JudgeJudi]

NPA gives clarity on Pistorius appeal

The National Prosecuting Authority (NPA) spokesperson Nathi Mncube says there was an error in the paralympian Oscar Pistorius's conviction and sentence.

The State will appeal both the conviction and sentence in the Pistorius trial. Judge Thokozile Masipa sentenced Pistorius to five years in prison last week, for culpable homicide.

Worth listening to the interview: he says the application to appeal will go to Masipa and, if successful, it will be heard by the SCA

http://www.sabc.co.za/news/a/605e24...PA-gives-clarity-on-Pistorius-appeal-20142810

We're getting so much conflicting information. Someone posted up-thread that it was going direct to the SCA.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Could this be the same black eye?

"He claimed Pistorius had a bad temper, and that at the meeting the athlete had a black eye because he had been involved in a fight with a friend the night before. “The man I heard on the phone is a different man from the image given out there. He carries a gun everywhere and I have seen him be controlling to women.”

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/tales-of-oscar-s-temper-and-threats-1.1471504#.VE-UbfmUeSo

This is why former soccer player Mark Batchelor has decided to reveal details of what led to the fight, in November, in which Oscar Pistorius threatened to break his legs because the model had been his close friend. (Another black eye in January.)

 

[Mr Fossil]

We're getting so much conflicting information. Someone posted up-thread that it was going direct to the SCA.

That was an article in the Wall Street Journal IIRC whereas this is an interview with the NPA spokesman Nathi Mncube, so hopefully more reliable.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I'm afraid I can't agree with that. I was very disappointed with his final arguments. I expected him to make a compelling narrative of the prosecution's version, but he did not. He didn't present a clear order of events, and allowed Masipa to take Roux's deceptive timeline as common cause. This should have been spelled out much more clearly. His "Baker's Dozen" failed to impress me at the start - I felt that there were better points to be highlighted.

Absolutely, but I didn't mean the Heads of Argument for the judgment, I meant for sentencing. Was it called HoA for sentencing? I can't remember. I didn't like his HoA for the verdict at all either and I said as much. Too rushed, too disjointed, and I think I said at the time that posters here could have done it better. The Baker's Dozen was very disappointing. I think he thought he had it in the bag, well so did we, but it wasn't to be.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Could this be the same black eye?

"He claimed Pistorius had a bad temper, and that at the meeting the athlete had a black eye because he had been involved in a fight with a friend the night before. “The man I heard on the phone is a different man from the image given out there. He carries a gun everywhere and I have seen him be controlling to women.”

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/tales-of-oscar-s-temper-and-threats-1.1471504#.VE-UbfmUeSo

Batchelor said he ignored the “challenge” and was shocked to receive a call from a senior police official who asked that he attend a meeting with Pistorius. At the meeting three police “colonels” asked about the fight, intimating that Pistorius had friends in high places. (aha! so!)

The 30-year-old model died at Pistorius’s Silver Woods home after being shot four times. The police were called to the scene by neighbours, who reportedly heard shouting, with the shots following a few hours later. (early evening were police calls, rumors or not?)

However, the State did not oppose the defence team’s request to hold Pistorius at the Brooklyn police cells, and not at Pretoria Central Prison.
(allowed from Nel, but very special treatment!!)