Post sentencing discussion

[Deleted member 102539]

Venereous (= lustful)? Ok, maybe not.

"... and sometimes I just feel venerated as I'm still learning to read you when you tired and sick."

I think, venerated could be.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Feb 14, 2006 - Nodded off at the wheel after setting off for Vicky Miles’ house, 400 miles from his, at 3am after they had a blistering row. One side of the vehicle was completely destroyed

2008 - His ex-stylist, Francois Louw, witnessed a terrifying temper tantrum

2009 - Cassidy Taylor-Memmory charged OP with assault when he punched a door so hard it fell on her leg following an argument with his then-girlfriend. Case took 4 years to settle

Feb 2009 - Boating accident

2011 - Stormed out of a BBC radio interview after taking exception to a question about his fight to take part in non-disabled athletics

Oct 2011 - Drunk and extremely abusive to 2 women at Kings of Leon concert

June/July, 2012 - Attends shooting range with friends, including Francois Hougaard, and fires at a watermelon which explodes. He says,” It’s a lot softer than brain but *advertiser censored** it feels like a zombie stopper.”

July/Aug 2012 - Temper tantrum at Paralympics when he loses a race to Brazilian, Alan Oliveira whom he wrongly accuses of using illegal blades

Room-mate, Arnu Fourie changes rooms to get away from OP’s constant screaming on the phone

Nov 2012 - Shoots through the sunroof of a car

Nov 4, 2012 - Enraged by jealousy, confronts and swears at Quinton van der Burgh at Kyalami racetrack about his relationship with Sam Taylor

Nov 2012 - Started sending threatening SMSes to Van der Burgh

Nov 2012 - Marc Batchelor, a friend of van der Burgh got involved and he and OP exchanged threatening SMSes with OP threatening to break his legs

Jan 2013 - Tasha’s shooting incident

Feb 2013 - Shoots and kills Reeva

Apr 2013 - 52 days after killing Reeva he turned up, uninvited, at a private party in Illovo, Joburg, hosted by a businessman. Guests said he was drunk, knocking back one drink after the other, including tequila shots. He hit on Kesiah Frank, a beautiful blonde model who holds a law degree. He asked her to dance and flirted with her repeatedly until she made it clear she was not interested.

Apr 2013 - Out partying with friends at the Kitchen Bar, throwing back shooters and patted a friend’s girlfriend on the bottom. Patrons were shocked and thought it horribly insensitive to go out for drinks with friends so soon after Reeva's death.

OP was accompanied by Craig Lipschitz who was involved in a vicious brawl with former bouncer, Guil Yahav. Lipschitz is always accompanied by 4 bodyguards. Yahav was implicated in the vicious murder of another bouncer, Patrick Caetano who was hacked to death with a butcher’s knife at the Kyalami Business Park and was caught on CCTV.

July 2014 – OP attended The VIP Room nightclub with Guil Yahav He was intoxicated and got involved in an argument with Jared Mortimer. The club’s bouncers were asked to remove him after he then got into a confrontation with another man.


Miscellaneous:

2002 - At 15 he was allowed to drive Carl’s car illegally around Pretoria.

2004 - Bought his first car when he was 17, too young for a driver’s licence.

Mothers had to remove their children from the gym because of his continual swearing.

His biographer Gianni Merlo said, "He could get very furious suddenly"

The events in April 2013 are the same events or not?

 

[jay-jay]

CARICE:

I remember Carice testified to what she heard before she talked to her dad, then talking with her dad, then what went on she after they went to OP's house.

(Aside: When she mentioned who they encountered outside, I think the population of the entire world collectively and simultaneously said, "Frank?! Who's Frank?!" ha!)

Anyway, someone went back over with her again what had happened BEFORE she talk with her dad - and - what SHE heard from blocks away.

As her testimony ended for good and she stepped down, her voice had trailed off after the last thing she said, which was, "...and I wondered what had happened to the lady."

That really bothered me because she had testified twice that the ONLY thing she heard was Oscar crying. If the ONLY thing she heard was OSCAR crying, how did she know at that point in time she was describing that any lady WAS involved?

No one followed up with her then and I don't recall anyone bringing that up at the time on here.

Does anyone remember that and thought it was odd?

BBM .. Yes, that has been mentioned/discussed a number of times on here :thumb: .. definitely odd, and definitely let the cat out the bag as to what she really heard!

 

[Cherwell]

Well, not sure that would make sense. For starters it wasn't Valentine's Day until 12:00 midnight and so inelegant for a very new GF to be even mildly reproaching a fella they hadn't yet told they loved for forgetting a valentine's card or present not even due until the next day! Bit of a dampener on any romantic or surprise elements to an incipient relationship and imo would make most prospective OHs run a mile!

And how could Reeva have pre-empted OP hadn't arranged for a huge bunch of flowers or whatever to be delivered to her the next day? And since it wasn't planned she spend the night OP could have easily wheedled out of any faux pas by saying he wasn't expecting her to be there so hadn't collected her present, etc.. and rush out the next day to get her a card and something.

"Roses are red, violets are blue
Today is a good day to say I love you"

I would just take that as a Valentine greeting. I don't think it necessarily indicates that she hadn't expressed love to him before.
I agree with the rest of what you say here, though.

 

[Cherwell]

One would think that it should. A forum member recently reminded us that Janet Henzen du Toit was the sister-in-law of Natalie du Toit. My thoughts then went into overdrive. I found several photos of Natalie and OP at special events in SA (sort of open days) where it seemed fairly obvious family members might well attend. There are quite a few photos of N and OP together at these events. Even if JHdT did not meet him, I cannot believe that he would not have been discussed but maybe that would not be enough for JHdT to recuse herself. I am just sniffing out possibilities. Like others, I think JHdT may have had "rather large fingers in this pie".

Hang on. Has this been proved as a fact, that the assessor is related to Natalie?
I haven't seen any evidence to confirm this, only speculation.
I think Du Toit is quite a common name in SA.

 

[Estelle]

The only comment worth making about Oscar Pistorius is that he is not an Afrikaner. Despite his surname which, incidentally, is of Dutch origin, being a Latinisation of “baker” (“pistor” means “baker” in Latin), he was raised as English and attended English schools. So if one’s culture makes one commit murder or shoot your girlfriend through the bathroom door, English must be lethal.

http://praag.org/?p=16570

 

[jay-jay]

"Had a 96% headshot over 300m from 50 shots! Bam!" Pistorius tweeted.

Police have played down reports that Pistorius shot dead Steenkamp thinking she was an intruder, saying they had dealt with domestic incidents at his residence and will oppose bail.

Police said there had "previously been incidents at the home of Mr Oscar Pistorius".



I found this, old news on 15.2.2013. I like to mention it, because of the ominous verdict.

I would like to know what the other previous incidents *plural* were .. I know about the Taylor-Memmory one, obv, but the police quite definitely said 'incidents' plural.

 

[Cherwell]

And about the *advertiser censored*.

People keep saying that OP was looking at *advertiser censored* that evening. But he can't have been - the records show that the *advertiser censored* site was only accessed for a few seconds (Mr Fossil will have the exact time). This sounds like he clicked on something (a search result or a bookmark perhaps) in error, and then moved straight on to what he was really looking for. Or possibly it was an unwanted pop-up - I used to get those a lot until I installed good blockers.

I'm not saying he never viewed *advertiser censored* - he may well have had the site bookmarked - but he couldn't have been watching it then.

 

[Estelle]

Hang on. Has this been proved as a fact, that the assessor is related to Natalie?
I haven't seen any evidence to confirm this, only speculation.
I think Du Toit is quite a common name in SA.

It's still only speculation but IMO it is very likely that they could have mixed in the same circles and that she could be biased and in favour of a light sentence due to his disability.

 

[jay-jay]

Are you thinking of the theatre event where he was drunk and called the women lesbians? I have never heard of the restaurant incident.

Where was Francois Hougaard with him? Do you mean the zombie stopper event? OP was in Italy without Francois I would think.

According to this, this is Hougaard with him at the 'zombie stopper' firing range ..



http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-pictured-gun-used-3193993

Edit: apologies, just seen this one has already been answered (catching up here!)

 

[Interested Bystander]

Hang on. Has this been proved as a fact, that the assessor is related to Natalie?
I haven't seen any evidence to confirm this, only speculation.
I think Du Toit is quite a common name in SA.

I thought it had been determined on the forum some long time ago but, if not, I retract fully. I am presently looking into whether there is any information on the web that can verify this. Thank you for your query. I would not like to erroneously suggest she is the sister-in-law.


NB I have deleted my posts referring to JHDuT. I did not realise that this was more than likely a rumour.

 

[akp]

I speculated this back in March and did a lot research into it but they were reported to Mods who removed my posts. I am convinced they knew each other. Just her body language used to give me that impression. I would love them to interview Masipa and for it to be revealed that Henzen-du-Toit wrote the verdict reasonings.

Telegraph, March 28:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...old-moments-before-athlete-to-take-stand.html

Note in particular the fifth paragraph:

Pistorius, who had been sitting in the dock praying before the judge came in, looked crushed as he was ushered out by his family. "He was all geared up, he was giving evidence today," one member of his family told The Telegraph.

Now that we know how he messed up even after the break, it is easy to see how `ready and geared up' was OP at that point. And this disappointment, `crushed' etc almost sound staged to me.

We are in the realms of speculations here, of course, but there might be something in it after all (what is a sleuthing forum without some amount of speculation, as long we acknowledge it?) and there is no harm trying to follow it up. It could very well have been to give OP time to prepare AFTER State's cards were all disclosed.

 

[Estelle]

And about the *advertiser censored*.

People keep saying that OP was looking at *advertiser censored* that evening. But he can't have been - the records show that the *advertiser censored* site was only accessed for a few seconds (Mr Fossil will have the exact time). This sounds like he clicked on something (a search result or a bookmark perhaps) in error, and then moved straight on to what he was really looking for. Or possibly it was an unwanted pop-up - I used to get those a lot until I installed good blockers.

I'm not saying he never viewed *advertiser censored* - he may well have had the site bookmarked - but he couldn't have been watching it then.

So OP did not watch *advertiser censored* at all that night? In that case, he must have been even more sexually frustrated! LOL

 

[Mr Fossil]

And about the *advertiser censored*.

People keep saying that OP was looking at *advertiser censored* that evening. But he can't have been - the records show that the *advertiser censored* site was only accessed for a few seconds (Mr Fossil will have the exact time). This sounds like he clicked on something (a search result or a bookmark perhaps) in error, and then moved straight on to what he was really looking for. Or possibly it was an unwanted pop-up - I used to get those a lot until I installed good blockers.

I'm not saying he never viewed *advertiser censored* - he may well have had the site bookmarked - but he couldn't have been watching it then.

18:29:58 types ‘youj!zz’ into Google search
18:30:02 selects the free pornographic video web site for mobile devices ‘m.youj!zz.com’
18:30:25 selects the video ‘videos/5/1/1/6/’ which starts playing on the iPad
18:30:46 types 'autotrader sa' into Google search

 

[Estelle]

EWN Reporter ‏@ewnreporter

#OscarPistorius Vergeer is employed by the state - the Dept. says her application to consult privately for Pistorius wasn’t approved. BB

 

[jay-jay]

May well be true but OP didn't go ahead and shoot him. If OP had thought someone was in the toilet he could easily have shot into the ceiling a warning shot or in the very top of the door. According to OP he was shouting loudly. An intruder hearing that would have probably have taken cover right at the back of the toilet in a corner, no doubt crouched (not standing immediately behind the door). He knew the gun licensing rules inside out. I still don't doubt he knew exactly who he was shooting, especially after Mrs Van der Merwe's evidence about hearing an argument. Why on earth would she make it up? I think the fact the JP threw out ALL earwitness evidence was a very bad decision. These people had no axe to grind and were only trying to help. I cannot help feeling OP's prayer requests for Reeva, etc, was to saturate the "audience" in order to hopefully sway opinion. MOO.

BBM .. what proves it to me that she did hear that argument is that the defence never actually refuted it (and they absolutely would've if it hadn't been true). Instead, they tried to bring her testimony down by saying that it must've been another house she heard that coming from and not OP's .. in other words, the defence actually believed her that she heard the argument, so there definitely was an argument in a nearby house to EVDM's, and the chances of it having been another one and not OP's at the exact same time of night as all the other evidence points to (stomach contents, iphone activity, etc) are nil .. it would be a mighty coincidence if a couple in another neighbour's house was having an argument at that precise time of the night/morning .. and then, hey, guess what, a woman gets shot at not long after 3am that same night/morning .. at Pistorius's house!

EVDM's ear-witness evidence was damning to the defence, and the only thing they could do to rebut it was to say she'd been mistaken about where she heard it coming from, i.e. it happened, and not only did it happen, it most definitely came from OP's house because the chances of it having come from elsewhere on that very same night/morning at the right time to fit the crime are ZERO.

 

[Cherwell]

18:29:58 types ‘youj!zz’ into Google search
18:30:02 selects the free pornographic video web site for mobile devices ‘m.youj!zz.com’
18:30:25 selects the video ‘videos/5/1/1/6/’ which starts playing on the iPad
18:30:46 types 'autotrader sa' into Google search

Aha, I didn't realise there was more than one click. Well, that makes me wonder if he was going to watch it, and then changed his mind. Interrupted, perhaps? Did Reeva come into the room?

 

[JudgeJudi]

Excellent post, Judi. I will forever believe that the docs had to have seen more in OP than they presented. Either that or OP was really, really slick in playing them.

To find nothing wrong except depression and PTSD (resulting from incident), given his previous history, is astounding. In essence, they declared OP’s mind is normal, his personality fine. This is frightening. His aggressive, murderous behavior with girlfriends and adversaries is not fine, not normal.

They failed him and society. They would have done him a great favor had they told the truth. Then again, perhaps OP is the consummate con man and fooled even the experts?

I agree - he’ll be even more dangerous once he’s out of prison. What more could a bitter man lose and why would he care?

Fooled? Oh, Lux, this isn’t like you to be so discreet. Let’s just say it like it is. He lied to the doctors at Weskoppies.

Prof Scholtz report

P8, 2.2.9
He is a social drinker but always has to keep his training program in mind therefore he doesn’t allow himself to become inebriated.

P.19, 3.4.2 – History of the boating accident on 21 February 2009

3.4.3 – Description of the injuries sustained. Dr Scholtz quotes a report from Milpark Hospital which say “There is no evidence of acute intra cranial trauma”. OP reported that he had made a full recovery from his injuries.

P.20, 3.4.5
Memory – He denied experiencing any difficulties.
However as Judge Greenland points out, he does suffer from oscarphrenia – meticulous recollection of even obscure details, with sudden amnesia on simple but critical events ... but only in the courtroom.

Irritability – He reported that once he was pain-free he was no longer irritable.
From what I’ve read, he’s frequently irritable if he doesn’t get his own way.

Concentration: Planning abilities – He reports that his ability to plan has been intact.
“I didn’t have time to think”

Initiative – He reported no difficulty in making decisions post-accident.
OP stated during the trial that he could only remember things up to the time of the shooting. I’m uncertain what sort of decisions Scholtz was interested in. However he certainly had no difficulties making bad decisions, e.g. allegedly saying at the bail application “I always win”, gatecrashing a private party, getting drunk and trying to pick up a Reeva lookalike model 52 days after the killing, out partying with friends, one of whom was a very shady character, Craig Lipschitz, 2 months after killing Reeva, drinking and patting a friend’s girlfriend on the bottom, going on holidays in Mozambique and being photographed with his buddies living it up and having a good time, meeting a new girlfriend Leah Skye Malan, and going to a nightclub where he got into two arguments during the latter stages of the trial. Yes, he has no difficulty in making any and all decisions to continue living his life, as far as he’s able, just as he’s always done. The only problem is that he’s watched and targeted now so he stays home and reads his bible and thinks about Reeva … oh, and cries for her. Not a day goes by that he doesn’t think about her. Right.

Impulsivity – He denies experiencing any difficulties.
The incidents on the way back from the Vaal River outing with Sam Taylor and Darren Fresco:

a) Telling the police officer off about handling his firearm.
b) Shooting through the sunroof.

The incident at Tasha’s.

P.26 Unfortunately once again there were incidents of crime that he was exposed to or experienced ... One example is seeing a dead girl on an embankment ... after she had been thrown from the train.

To my mind seeing a girl’s body in the distance is not being exposed to crime or experiencing it. For this to be mentioned at all he would have been a passenger on the train, witnessed the girl being attacked and thrown from the train. I’ve seen many bodies, though not as a result of crime. Seeing a person who’s still alive with a leg almost completely severed and screaming in pain or people drenched in blood from top to toe from their injuries and screaming is far more horrific.

Part 1 of the mental evaluation:

https://www.scribd.com/doc/232719397/Full-document-Oscar-Pistorius-mental-evaluation-Part-I

 

[Paul_1900]

CORRECTION: In Sept 2012, Sam Taylor and OP went to the Seychelles.

BBM Nov 4 2012: Divaris introduced Reeva to OP at the Kyalami racetrack. That same day was when he had the altercation with Quentin van der Burgh. Later that day, OP phoned Reeva and asked her to accompany him to the Sports Awards.

So this should now read:

Nov 4, 2012 - Enraged by jealousy, confronts and swears at Quinton van der Burgh at Kyalami racetrack about his relationship with Sam Taylor.

Nov 2012: Started sending threatening SMSes to Van der Burgh.

Nov 2012: Marc Batchelor, a friend of van der Burgh got involved and he and OP exchanged threatening SMSes with OP threatening to break his legs.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/oth...gainst-his-tragic-fallibilities-30582424.html

~snipped for space~

Hi Estelle, Hi Judge Judi,
I am confused re the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] November 2012. . . . but might be completely off track here . . :waitasec:

Where did you see the information that it was the same day Divaris introduced OP to Reeva AND at the same day/event had his fight with Van Der Burgh ?

From news articles on the encounter with Van Der Burgh it reads “ soon after return from Olympics” , which took place from 25[SUP]th[/SUP] July – 12[SUP]th[/SUP] August. Wouldn’t that match also with Sam Taylors evidence that they broke up then she gave it a last try, and so they went to Seychelles ?
In his affidavit Divaris said “ on November 4[SUP]th[/SUP] I hosted a track day on Kyalami Race Track . . during lunch Oscar and Reeva . . were seated at my table “

I checked the Daytona Group Blog website, their FB and even some car sites. . .

• there is no event at all mentioned for November 2012 at Kyalami (many others, but none for Nov’12 till Feb’13 . . I would assume they list them all for promotion ? Especially if they have a lot of VIPs invited it cannot be a small event I’d guess)
• 8[SUP]th[/SUP] / 13[SUP]th[/SUP] August there is reference to launches of Aston Martin in their showroom
• 11[SUP]th[/SUP] August ’12 was a Mc Laren Owners Track day at Kyalami (but that would be one day b4 end of Olympics, so doubt OP was there – though he would clearly be invited as he had ordered a Mc Laren –erm . . turned out to be a lie)
• 17[SUP]th[/SUP] September FB entry with pic of OP and Aston Martin
• 4[SUP]th[/SUP] October Daytona hosted a launch of Aston Martin, but that was in their Joburg showroom
• 5[SUP]th[/SUP] /11[SUP]th[/SUP] October launch Mc Laren spider showroom
• 23[SUP]rd[/SUP] October OP was at Mc Laren Center in UK (there is pics of OP)
• January 2013 news + pic of OP driving his McLaren

So I wonder, did they delete some data ? Would not make much sense to me, why should they do it? But then it could not have been on the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] November that Reeva met OP first time.

I find this really strange . . . unless I am missing something completely

„Daytona Group 17. September 2012
The legend Mr Oscar Pistorius was in Cape town last week, and Daytona Group had given him the Aston Martin Vantage to drive, he was blown away by the performance and new 7 speed Paddle box “

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.399826080079211.91561.217799034948584&type=1

http://www.wheels24.co.za/News/Blade-Runner-buys-R35m-McLaren-20130120

http://blog.daytonagroup.co.za/?m=201209

 

[jay-jay]

18:29:58 types ‘youj!zz’ into Google search
18:30:02 selects the free pornographic video web site for mobile devices ‘m.youj!zz.com’
18:30:25 selects the video ‘videos/5/1/1/6/’ which starts playing on the iPad
18:30:46 types 'autotrader sa' into Google search

View attachment 62314

But what that shows to me is that he was doing several things on his ipad at once .. I do that both on my ipad, and on my laptop, where I have several tabs open at once and flip between them and go between different apps, then go back to something else I was doing. It may be that he got the *advertiser censored* video up and while he was waiting for it to start (adverts, etc, at the beginning of it) he flipped back to google to search cars, then back to the *advertiser censored* vid that had started by then. Also, there may have been a thought-out reason for doing those two things at the same time .. i.e. so that he had a search for cars already going that he could flip back to if Reeva happened to come in, and therefore she wouldn't see him watching the *advertiser censored*, and he could just say to her that he was browsing cars and that was all she would see if she happened to see his ipad. I know about that thing of keeping various tabs or apps open, so that they can be quickly flipped to ensure your OH doesn't see it, because that's what my ex used to do .. I noticed that whenever I walked in the room he would quickly flip the screen to something else (and therefore was up to something dodgy on the other screen he had just flipped from).