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[giagreen]

That's a BIG possibility. Normally there's a 3 call system (for in call: which is when the customer comes to the providers location). First they call to set up the appointment. They call back 1 hour prior to confirm and get a nearby address. Once they get close they call again (normally from the parking lot so the provider can see them) and then they get the room #. What I'm wondering is if maybe he went through all 3 steps but then drove off?

a NC/NS would explain so much.

OR doing all 3 steps, (or however many they require) and showing up - claim to be LE - cuff and place in the back of the car. I really think the car is rigged with the locks. I only say this because of those that do work the streets. But what you brought up is a huge huge possibility.

There's been many accounts of men that do this, only to stalk the providers till they vacate their incall location out of fear. Sometimes the clients will sit and wait for other clients to appear and chase them off OR call LE themselves. There are some real nut jobs out there.

I bet he called so many women during his sprees and they don't realize they dodged the bullet (so to speak, no pun intended). He had to have been at least a lil off via the phone to not have more victims.

I'm intrigued about the woman who ran and hid from her driver. I'd love to hear details about this or a link to his detailed account.

there is a thread on the 2nd page here about Shannon Gilbert (SG) and her whole story about running from her driver that night. I was going to post it for you but not sure how. SG story is very intresting. Yet just flat out confusing because it doesn't seem that she was murdered by the LISK or at all.

 

[Tracey1409]

I've always thought that these girls (GB4) were probably more naïve than we think. These weren't streetwise streetwalkers. They hadn't been in the game for years. ALC saw her sisters car and money and thought Hey this is easy! I also think they somehow thought Craigslist would be safer than standing on street corners.

 

[giagreen]

Astro,
I really wish you new more about all these girls right now. lol Because MBB is another one who is very intresting when it comes to her last being seen/heard from. IMO it's a lot like MW. That being the reason why I think they were being watched. But that's just me and it could be a number of possibilities.

 

[Gerontion]

Thanks for the insights Kitty. Drugs are one thing I proudly admit to being naieve about. I only really know snippets from here and there

I just picked up a couple of drug snippets reading here tonight. For example, "skiing and trees" and something about a "slobbering, nodding out fetish"!

 

[Tracey1409]

Astro,
I really wish you new more about all these girls right now. lol Because MBB is another one who is very intresting when it comes to her last being seen/heard from. IMO it's a lot like MW. That being the reason why I think they were being watched. But that's just me and it could be a number of possibilities.

This is why the Natasha Jugo thing worried me a little ... when a family member said Natasha thought she was being followed. That's another story though and we just don't have hardly any info on this poor girl.

Anyways guys ... It's getting light over here and my eyes have had it! My blinks seem to be getting longer and longer lol!

Be safe all ... Nighty night :seeya:

 

[AstroKitty]

He probably did watch them. Given that they were selected online - all Caucasian, near the same age range and body build - there's got to be more common threads stringing them all together.

If anyone wants to post links to news sources with each case that you recommend - I will absolutely read them. I will google the cases (I did read the wikipedia on this) and check out "serial killer" fan sites, which usually have tons of detail - as well as gore sites that tend to have twice as much detail. I want to know everything.

I really wish the driver and boyfriends / pimps would contact me. I won't narc on them or pass judgement. I just want to know how trusting these women were in general and what it took for them to let their guard down. I'm not interested in the life choices of their friends or associates.

Also, a lot of people think online is safer than the streets (it is) but it's also super easy to post an ad and then sit around waiting calls or emails. Plus it's more exposure as it's advertising and escorts can charge far more than street girls.

For instance: street prices go abit like this (remember it's dependent on the area and the girl themselves)

sex: ranges from 40-60
oral: 20
greek (anal) 40-80

Most fall into the 20-50 range (car dates)

Escorts start at 80 (15 minutes) and go up to thousands. Again, all depending on the girl/agency and her reviews. If she's just a CL prostitute - no reviews, no website, low budget if you will ...
15 minutes/ 50-80
30 minutes/ 80 - 100
1 hour/ 150 - 200

High end:
1 hour min/ 300 -2 grand
90 minutes and so forth. The higher end prefer no less than 90 minutes and a 24 hour notice. And generally use only email until the person is verified and screened - then they use their phone and exchange #'s.

When you're booked through an agency, the agency takes care of it all and you only call them to check in that you've arrived and received the funds. There's always a code word in case things are shady and you need help (something like "yes everything is FINE") a word that wouldn't tip off the client. Some agencies don't want the responsibility of knowing what you discuss with the client and rather the provider contact the client to formalize the date - in that case it's down to the 2-3 call system. But you still would be required to check in via phone.

When you have a driver you check in with both the agency and the driver. Some agencies require you to take the funds to the driver as a formality so that the provider isn't robbed, the driver physically sees you are OK and it gives a chance for the provider and driver to exchange information about the client without being overheard. Some drivers walk the lady to the door, collect the funds (so that the $ never touches her hands) and walks out with it while she stays behind. This is a determent so that the client won't beat/rape or rob the girls. They see that a man with a gun in his pants knows where he lives and means business.

A lot of girls employ drivers for this reason alone.

 

[AstroKitty]

I just picked up a couple of drug snippets reading here tonight. For example, "skiing and trees" and something about a "slobbering, nodding out fetish"!

There's no such thing as a nodding out fetish, I was being sarcastic.

Nodding out is what people do on heroin or opiates
Skiing means doing coke/ blow
Trees because weed is green and buds look like lil' trees. Haven't you ever wondered why those terms were in CL ads when you sleuthed?

Also "tina" means ice or meth
"420 friendly means smoke weed and provides it

 

[giagreen]

This is why the Natasha Jugo thing worried me a little ... when a family member said Natasha thought she was being followed. That's another story though and we just don't have hardly any info on this poor girl.

Anyways guys ... It's getting light over here and my eyes have had it! My blinks seem to be getting longer and longer lol!

Be safe all ... Nighty night :seeya:

Right on...It always seemed to me that it's like obious that MBB and MW were being watched and followed tho many disagree with me. And then I find it funny how SG and Natasha thought they were being followed or well with SG we know she was by MP but that is neither here or there. Now with MB and ALC it's a little diffrent and then that switches up everything about thinking they were being watched.
Unless if this guy was so good at what he does that he new when MB would be coming back home from her call that night and was also waiting for ALC to be headed home. We need to remember ALC address was listed on a website. And her life was being threatend on there. So who knows she could of been being watched as well. It is so hard to say and I go back and forth anyways.
Anyways have a goodnight.

 

[genericwhitemale]

I'll openly admit that my knowledge of the street pharmaceutical market isn't too great, but I know a little bit. Say we flip this whole thing around. What if he trolled CL and found girls he suspected were into drugs, then offered them up in exchange for sex? Like a "Hey, let's get high and then see what happens" type of deal? Only he didn't use, but let the girl(s) dive into his stash, then he turned on them. I have a friend that used to go to strip clubs when he was single and entice the dancers with Xanax and other Schedule 1 narcotics. It was a successful tactic for him as he got many a girl back to his apartment for the night.


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[AstroKitty]

There are guys (or LE) on CL that in NYC offer up trade for Perc's (percocet) or bars (xanax 2mg). So I have seen it, and I agree totally about it working in strip clubs.

 

[deedee21]

No one is sure that "he" the LISK actually offered her five times her rate. That is just one theory out of plenty.

She told her roommate he offered her that much.

 

[deedee21]

Regarding the first girl mentioned here. Did LE ever consider that the person who murdered her had been a client that same day or possibly the day before? he would know her hotel and room #. It's highly possible he called before she left and she mentioned she could see him later, because she had an errand to run. He laid in wait for her to exit her room, he could have rented a room there himself even. But I think it's far more likely that he had seen her, knew her hotel and pounced on her either as she left or as she returned. If it was a motel - it would even be easier to stalk her because he wouldn't have to enter a building, but simply watch the door from the parking lot. *this is one of the reasons that girls work for 1 day out of a hotel and then relocate

Do you know the hotel that he tried to get the last girl to meet him at?

The same hotel Megan walked away from.

 

[giagreen]

She told her roommate he offered her that much.

I understand that. But what I am saying is if that was even the LISK who offered that money to her. I have my doubt for a few reasons. I know that a lot of people disagree with me on here about my theory and that's okay. But I've just been thinking a lot that LE would have gone back and seen what number had called her that day. Along with the other women. But nothing has seemed to come of that. Not even a fake phone. From what I understand they were able to interview a few of the men who had last contacted some of the women and they all checked out. So to me it is looking less and less like this guy had even called some of the girls.

 

[deedee21]

I understand that. But what I am saying is if that was even the LISK who offered that money to her. I have my doubt for a few reasons. I know that a lot of people disagree with me on here about my theory and that's okay. But I've just been thinking a lot that LE would have gone back and seen what number had called her that day. Along with the other women. But nothing has seemed to come of that. Not even a fake phone. From what I understand they were able to interview a few of the men who had last contacted some of the women and they all checked out. So to me it is looking less and less like this guy had even called some of the girls.

There was probably a burner phone.

 

[giagreen]

There was probably a burner phone.

What exactly is a burner phone? I understand there are prepaid phones. But even then wouldn't the number still show up? Does a burner phone stop the number from showing up?
The only thing I've read about a prepaid phone being used is when calls were made to MB boyfriend-pimp using the name mickey mouse. So I've always wondered why they never seemed to find the same thing on any of these girls phone. However I guess if they did that would prob be something LE wouldn't share with the public.

 

[giagreen]

Astro,
Now that I think of it that is another question I've got. When running a check on a client do you not go with him or put him on some list if they are using a prepaid phone...or how do you go about checking out his identity to make sure he is not giving a false identity?
And have you ever ran across any men who have tried to lie about their identity? If so any of the phones used ever come back to a guy named mickey mouse? I know it's a long shot but you never know.

 

[Gerontion]

I understand that. But what I am saying is if that was even the LISK who offered that money to her. I have my doubt for a few reasons. I know that a lot of people disagree with me on here about my theory and that's okay. But I've just been thinking a lot that LE would have gone back and seen what number had called her that day. Along with the other women. But nothing has seemed to come of that. Not even a fake phone. From what I understand they were able to interview a few of the men who had last contacted some of the women and they all checked out. So to me it is looking less and less like this guy had even called some of the girls.

Some of the points you make in this post are well worth repeating. There has been no evidence presented of the G4 having a john in common. Their last calls/contacts have no known common demoninator. What ties them together is they advertized on CL, had some somewhat similiar age/stature/profiles, and were found together at Gilgo Beach, having been disposed of in similar manners. I like Peter Brendts hypothesis about a stalker. Let's call the guy an "outlier". He nibbled around the edges of the trade. MBB disappeared from a bus terminal. MW dissapeared from outside a hotel. ALC disappeared a block from her home in a suburban neighborhood. MB was yet another entirely different scenario (that I can't offhand recall). It is hard to find an MO there.

 

[Gerontion]

There's no such thing as a nodding out fetish, I was being sarcastic.

Nodding out is what people do on heroin or opiates
Skiing means doing coke/ blow
Trees because weed is green and buds look like lil' trees. Haven't you ever wondered why those terms were in CL ads when you sleuthed?

Also "tina" means ice or meth
"420 friendly means smoke weed and provides it

BBM
I know you were. Actually, you were being funny. I was trying to acknowledge that. Funny thing, a poster upthread admitted to "nodding and smiling". I suppose that's a better thing than "slobbering and nodding".
As for the rest of the terms of the trade, I am thankfully way behind. I vaguely recall terms such as "horse", "works", "dope", "pot", "I dig a Pony". But I have the feeling that you could bring me up to "speed" real quick.
But seriously, you bring a much needed and much appreciated fresh perspective to this case. The tricky thing about following it is trying to keep the separate elements "compartmentalized". Once you jump on the carousel of simultaneously trying to work on the G4, Manorville, AC, and SG, all at the same time, you will get a headache. We have all been there. In my humble opinion, and if I may be so bold, you could best help us out by concentrating on the G4.

 

[mcme]

From what I understand they were able to interview a few of the men who had last contacted some of the women and they all checked out. So to me it is looking less and less like this guy had even called some of the girls.

I've thought this all along. It's my belief that LISK knows where hookers gather and what they look like, then goes there and waits for the right moment. A kind smile or hello at the right time can be very disarming to any young lady. I think if there had been any contact at all with any of these women beforehand, LE would have linked it up and jumped on it. Completely random/chance encounters between LISK and his victims explains alot.

 

[genericwhitemale]

A kind smile or hello at the right time can be very disarming to any young lady. I think if there had been any contact at all with any of these women beforehand, LE would have linked it up and jumped on it. Completely random/chance encounters between LISK and his victims explains alot.

These were working girls. They weren't out there looking for a boyfriend, they provided services for money. I'm sure being a semi-normal guy that wasn't a total weirdo helps, but that's about all that should be necessary. Didn't the killer phone ALC several times the day she was last seen alive before she left to meet up with the guy? There's been a lot of talk that he doesn't kill every girl he comes across, just when the urge strikes. This was also the case with Joel Rifkin.



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