Post your theory-****NO DISCUSSION****

[mlc9852]

The only theory I can think of that ties all the facts together is that Deborah arranged the kidnapping herself, so that she could make a clean break with Jeremy. This presupposes, however, that she knew someone who was willing to take the child and squirrel her away until the case went cold. It certainly wouldn't be a very intelligent thing to do, but then, Deborah comes across as a bit wanting in the quality, as well as being something of a schemer.

And where would DB go? She has no job, no money, no car, no driver's license. Would a family member be willing and able to support her and two children? JI would have an excellent chance at getting custody, especially with her drinking and the baby gone missing on her watch. If anything, JI would be more likely to want to get away from DB, IMHO.

 

[MissJames]

Hello fellow sleuths!
I've been lurking for years, since Scott Petterson, and finally got enough courage to post something about this case that I think hasn't been mentioned. If I remember correctly, the couple (or one of them) said that the "kidnapper" took the cell phones so that they couldn't use them to dial 911. Well, the problem I have with that statement is:

How would a "kidnapper" know that they didn't have a land line also? There could have been land line phones in the basement, kitchen, master bedroom, etc. In my opinion, DB HAD to get rid of those phones because of the evidence tied to them. So, to me, that means the "kidnapper" was DB, JI, or someone that they knew very well, well enough to know that they didn't also have a land line. :waitasec:

I agree ,and welcome!! Please keep posting :seeya:

 

[mlc9852]

Ever since I heard about the drinking buddy's estranged husband, I have been stuck there. Military trained, and now seeing what his specialty was has me even more leaning that way. Too coincidental that first nite Jeremy is gone and first nite he has to stay away from his home. His FB page leads me to believe he is controlling. I can see him getting revenge on DB for interfering in his marriage and giving baby Lisa to someone else. I think he could easily pass a LDT. He was picked out by MT, which further makes me suspicious. He appears to have the physical ability to carry something weighing 30lbs w/o difficulty. The dog didn't bark (familiarity), the house layout was known, and Lisa probably knew him as well. His alibi could be a buddy- who knows, LE hasn't discussed it. MOO/ JMO

I thought LE already checked his alibi - he was at work during the time Baby Lisa disappeared. Not sure of the timeline he was supposed to be working and I don't have a link, but I know I read that.

 

[MissJames]

Well first, I just find it hard to believe that this SODDI took time out from abducting this child to hunt down three cell phones - even if he walked right past them when he first walked into the house, why would he pick them up - ?? Doesn't make sense to me - not even the "so they couldn't call anyone theory." My neighbor is 20 feet away - I'd be over there faster than it would take me to find my own cell phone banging on their door to USE THEIR PHONE!!!!

The other thing I question is the spotting of a man carrying a child through the street - up to miles away - with a half naked baby in his arms...... Come on - where was the "getaway" car??? You abduct a child and then walk miles with it ---- to where??? the bus stop? train stop? Where was this person's final destination?

Is it possible that this was staged in the hopes that a lot of people might see this scenario and that the "child" in this man's arms wasn't baby Lisa - that baby Lisa was already dead and whoever this person was, was just carrying a doll or something through the streets to make it look like an abduction - come on, you don't walk miles with an abducted child - give me a break.
__________________

:yes:

 

[Debthree]

Sorry for quoting myself ...

To add to my mounting circumstantial evidence theory......
Who knew JI was working that night?
Who knew DB had been drinking?
Who bought additional booze that night and why?
Who knew their own spouce was not suppose to be home that night? Alibi?
Who knew when the lights went out?
Who hung around for an hour after the lights went out and why?
Who knew the layout of the house and neighbourhood?
Who is staying close to DB, JI & team?

ETA: Who is not answering media's questions?
ETA#2: Who would have been comfortable turning on the lights w/o fear of getting caught? Or have a good excuse for being there inside the home should they get caught?

Do you think that the spouse of that person is involved or did that person work alone?

 

[Wendy101]

I am not at all impressed with motorcycle man supposedly picking a person from a line up. First of all motorcycle man didn't contact police for about a week. Second of all he wasn't given a line up right then. Why? Did he tell police he could recognize the person or not? If he did say he could recognize the person why wouldn't police have given him a line up? This line up was given to him quite recently. He also claimed he picked someone they have been showing pictures of. While I can't be sure as to what he means by that, it sounds to me like somebody showed him the pictures of the man prior to the line up. And when first asked to describe this man by the press, he didn't claim the man was all dressed in white. After the video of the white blob appeared, then the man was dressed all in white. What did he tell the police at that first interview and what description did he give them then?

I think Mr Abeyta was the one who showed him photos..asked him to identify who he saw...

"We have a potential suspect, we have an eyewitness who positively identified the suspect in a lineup of photos," Abeyta said.

So perhaps, Mr A showed Mr Motorcycle a group of photos of potential suspects for "his" investigation - Mr. Motorcycle pics out DB - THEN they go to LE and Le runs a line-up and Mr. Motor pics out JB from a line up also? Or was it just photograps from Mr. A??

Was LE involved inthe "line-up" at all?

http://www.examiner.com/missing-per...aby-lisa-s-family?CID=examiner_alerts_article

 

[GoodGurl]

Has it been reported who the other neighbor couple (sighting at 12:15 IIRC) identified?

oops, sorry, I posted in the wrong thread...that's what I get for being a newbie and thread hopping. sorry.

 

[MissJames]

IMO, this goes back to something JI started to say in an early interview. IIRC, he was asked "who might do this? " and he responded something to the effect , "someone who was cheating on......."

People in this family know what happened to this baby. There is an undercurrant of something else going on ,something that is keeping ALL of baby Lisa's family quiet. If DB harmed Lisa ,why is JI staying quiet,especially considering that earlier statement? If JI did something ,why would DB lie for him? If JI suspects someone outside of the family,possibly someone involved with DB,why not spill?Why support DB ?

I really think there is something more to this story than just Lisa's disappearance.

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

Do you think that the spouse of that person is involved or did that person work alone?

At this point I am thinking the spouce was involved, and I think she passed the bay through the window, but not totally 1000% on that yet, just 90%. As to someone else's question, "Where is baby Lisa?" I wish I knew.

 

[Wendy101]

IMO, this goes back to something JI started to say in an early interview. IIRC, he was asked "who might do this? " and he responded something to the effect , "someone who was cheating on......."

People in this family know what happened to this baby. There is an undercurrant of something else going on ,something that is keeping ALL of baby Lisa's family quiet. If DB harmed Lisa ,why is JI staying quiet,especially considering that earlier statement? If JI did something ,why would DB lie for him? If JI suspects someone outside of the family,possibly someone involved with DB,why not spill?Why support DB ?

I really think there is something more to this story than just Lisa's disappearance.

I agree. IMO the ONLY person JI would lie for is his son. I can see DB covering that up also out of guilt for being neglectful...

 

[balaney]

my theory:

D introduced her neighbor S to DB's brother. They had/are having an affair. S's husband J is jealous. He is not staying at home that night but is aware of what is going on. D and S and the brother party until 10:30. S and the brother go to S's house. Husband of S - J shows up and either enters D's house looking for the brother or knows the brother is at S's (used to be his) house and with his wife and little girl. J decides to punish somebody and picks D and boyfriend J by taking their daughter Lisa - he is paying them back for allowing D's brother to steal his wife and daughter.
The phone call placed from D's phone - probably the brother calling the dope house looking for drugs.
J took the phones - did not know that none belonged to the brother thought he would read the texts between his wife and D's bro.
When he entered the house he found nobody was around and turned on lights looking for the brother. When he realized D was out of it, he grabbed the phones and the baby. He had parked a ways away as to not let his wife see his car.
He initially just took the baby thinking D's husband would be home soon and panic and did not think the scenerio through. Probably left the baby someplace close by for awhile thinking someone would find her when they started looking - just enough to put fear in to them. But, J got home much later than expected and the baby was moved again due to fear since it had not been found yet. Afraid now of kidnapping charges in this mess, he disposes of the baby.

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

my theory:

D introduced her neighbor S to DB's brother. They had/are having an affair. S's husband J is jealous. He is not staying at home that night but is aware of what is going on. D and S and the brother party until 10:30. S and the brother go to S's house. Husband of S - J shows up and either enters D's house looking for the brother or knows the brother is at S's (used to be his) house and with his wife and little girl. J decides to punish somebody and picks D and boyfriend J by taking their daughter Lisa - he is paying them back for allowing D's brother to steal his wife and daughter.
The phone call placed from D's phone - probably the brother calling the dope house looking for drugs.
J took the phones - did not know that none belonged to the brother thought he would read the texts between his wife and D's bro.
When he entered the house he found nobody was around and turned on lights looking for the brother. When he realized D was out of it, he grabbed the phones and the baby. He had parked a ways away as to not let his wife see his car.
He initially just took the baby thinking D's husband would be home soon and panic and did not think the scenerio through. Probably left the baby someplace close by for awhile thinking someone would find her when they started looking - just enough to put fear in to them. But, J got home much later than expected and the baby was moved again due to fear since it had not been found yet. Afraid now of kidnapping charges in this mess, he disposes of the baby.

not sure of who was wrinkling who's sheets, but I do believe you and I are on somewhat the same trail of circumstantial evidence, and possible motive. i'm also thinking JB may blame DB for giving SB moral support in their break-up. i'll ponder your thoughts, sounds plausible anyway. Thanks.

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

Although I am still stuck somewhat with my theory, I have been asking myself the same question that a lot of WS members have been asking, and that is why does DB not go before the cameras and plead for Baby Lisa's kidnapper to return her, or to tell the viewing public more about Lisa. I'm wondering if DB and or JI may have had a prelude of some kind that this may happen. What kind of threat, could the kidnapper have laid out to them? Although I still don't think DB and JI were "involved" in the child's disappearance, their behavior is odd, as were JI's words about who could have possibly committed this act. Were the boys' safety threatened, was there a threat to other family members threatened? What would cause them to stay mum if indeed a kidnapping did occur? Are they too afraid of something worse happening if they speak to authorities? So many questions and so few clues to build on.

 

[OR_Newshound]

A post I made that is in the Jury Room Sticky section now ... regarding Theories, it comes directly from the parent of a missing child that's listed here on this website:

Follow the link for the full thread, thanks.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7309565#post7309565"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

Theory conversations .... a general comment
I'm not sure if this is where to post this, I commented in one of the many Kyle Horman threads that reading the different theories made me uncomfortable, I've skimmed through the Lisa Irwin threads and cringed at things being said and it wasn't until the other day that it really hit home to me why ... but it was said by my girlfriend, who's the parent of a missing child that is listed here on Websleuths ... I have her permission to post this publicly:

Quote:
Carolyn Pospisil posted on her FB page October 27 at 3:41pm ·

I really need to stop reading comments on news articles. Especially on Missing Persons' stories. Lisa Irwin story case in point. If I read ONE MORE comment from people saying "if my child was missing I wouldn't do x y z." "If they aren't guilty why would the lawyer up?" or "that's not the way parents of missing kids act.", etc. I will melt down. You know what people? You don't know what you would do until you are actually in the middle of it. Every one reacts differently. There is NO NORMAL way to react if your child is missing. There is no way to determine what you would do. I hope to God you never know. And the "why would they lawyer up?" comments. Law enforcement is different everywhere. And while some do a fantastic job, others don't. Some are just downright nasty. You have no idea what happened behind closed doors with the police.

 

[Whisperer]

Hello fellow sleuths!
I've been lurking for years, since Scott Petterson, and finally got enough courage to post something about this case that I think hasn't been mentioned. If I remember correctly, the couple (or one of them) said that the "kidnapper" took the cell phones so that they couldn't use them to dial 911. Well, the problem I have with that statement is:

How would a "kidnapper" know that they didn't have a land line also? There could have been land line phones in the basement, kitchen, master bedroom, etc. In my opinion, DB HAD to get rid of those phones because of the evidence tied to them. So, to me, that means the "kidnapper" was DB, JI, or someone that they knew very well, well enough to know that they didn't also have a land line. :waitasec:

:clap:

______________

:welcome4:

 

[Whisperer]

Sorry for quoting myself ...

To add to my mounting circumstantial evidence theory......
Who knew JI was working that night?
Who knew DB had been drinking?
Who bought additional booze that night and why?
Who knew their own spouce was not suppose to be home that night? Alibi?
Who knew when the lights went out?
Who hung around for an hour after the lights went out and why?
Who knew the layout of the house and neighbourhood?
Who is staying close to DB, JI & team?

ETA: Who is not answering media's questions?
ETA#2: Who would have been comfortable turning on the lights w/o fear of getting caught? Or have a good excuse for being there inside the home should they get caught?

:clap:

 

[Whisperer]

My theory is:

I'm thankful that my favorite crime illustrator, has decided get out the canvasses and start painting again. :great:

 

[Whisperer]

Deborah's flood of tears struck me as stemming from grieving for a deceased baby and tears of just plain fear that she would be found out as having caused Baby Lisa's death or disappearance. The tears could be from guilt as well. I have thought this from the first moment of seeing Deborah on camera.

If Baby Lisa is deceased, I feel she is in that river. The clicking sound could have been a stapler used when 'packaging' the body. I have a stapler that I used when upholstering my dining room chairs. It could drive staples through anything and made a very loud clicking sound! I also would think an electrician would have a stapler of that strength.

This still could be an elaborate hoax as well. If the boys were in school again, Deborah had many hours to either peruse the internet, play games, and read about all kinds of things on the 'net. She had plenty of time to dream up any and everything.

It might be helpful to know what missing babies/children cases Deborah has followed. Did she follow Baby Harmony Jade's case? There are so many similarities there.

Deborah got married at 17. Did she feel she lost out on sowing her wild oats and dating? Did she come to resent having to keep up with and tend to 3 children? Prior to Baby Lisa being born, she took care of two energetic boys but at least could send them out in the back yard to play. Then here came Baby Lisa and all of a sudden her job seemed to be during every waking hour. One of my theories is also that she just got tired of everything and was depressed. She felt stressed to the hilt and found herself becoming more and more short tempered. I do not find it to be unbelievable that she could have just snapped and hurt Baby Lisa very badly and death was the outcome. I don't feel she acted alone, and did have help from one and possibly two people very close to her.

I hope I am allowed to say that I think Deborah may have become addicted to an illegal substance and that led to money problems recently.

Bottom line on all of my theories is that Deborah is responsible for Baby Lisa's disappearance. I will be shocked if she isn't and will hang up my sleuthing hat forever.

Leave a hook open for my hat too...:lol: We are in this together!

:websleuther: :websleuther:

 

[Well Done 99]

my theory:

D introduced her neighbor S to DB's brother. They had/are having an affair. S's husband J is jealous. He is not staying at home that night but is aware of what is going on. D and S and the brother party until 10:30. S and the brother go to S's house. Husband of S - J shows up and either enters D's house looking for the brother or knows the brother is at S's (used to be his) house and with his wife and little girl. J decides to punish somebody and picks D and boyfriend J by taking their daughter Lisa - he is paying them back for allowing D's brother to steal his wife and daughter.
The phone call placed from D's phone - probably the brother calling the dope house looking for drugs.
J took the phones - did not know that none belonged to the brother thought he would read the texts between his wife and D's bro.
When he entered the house he found nobody was around and turned on lights looking for the brother. When he realized D was out of it, he grabbed the phones and the baby. He had parked a ways away as to not let his wife see his car.
He initially just took the baby thinking D's husband would be home soon and panic and did not think the scenerio through. Probably left the baby someplace close by for awhile thinking someone would find her when they started looking - just enough to put fear in to them. But, J got home much later than expected and the baby was moved again due to fear since it had not been found yet. Afraid now of kidnapping charges in this mess, he disposes of the baby.

I don't need to post my theory now ... (apart from a couple minor technicalities) you just did!

 

[Whisperer]

I don't need to post my theory now ... (apart from a couple minor technicalities) you just did!

This is interesting. LE gave a poly to the husband of the friend that was with DB that night..hmm. He must not have been able to provide an alibi that could be substantiated. During the evening, weren't the friend and he texting each other? I wonder why DB was not calling JI at work that night. It was his first night being away. Is there a possibility they were having some problems? She could have used her friend's phone to call and see how he was doing.

I noticed he never called DB either. Wouldn't he think she would be worried since he was five hours late??? These two had not connected despite the fact that he was pulling ten more hours of work that day? Since Starbucks was so close, did he come home for dinner or to grab a snack during those ten hours?