Questions and Hopefully Answers in the Cooper Harris Case

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There is a thread here titled ------one key piece of guilty evidence.
There are reasons listed why people think JH is guilty.
 
Dont think thats allowed on this thread, which is why I posted the name of the thread above.
 
fruity said:
I have heard about postmortem sounds, but I don't believe RH heard them. I think the choking was part of his story, he had to think of something so that he had witnesses. He knew he couldn't call 911 himself.
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Ross has said he can't hear out of his right ear. He said he heard Cooper choking in his car seat...
 
EvilSoup said:
I respectfully disagree. I think Cooper's inert body may have emitted a slight smell. After all, Roscoe only worked about 6 hours that day (lazy).

However after disturbing Cooper's body, I could see how the smell would overwhelm. I think this is what the witnesses and police smelled.

Not that I think there was no odor prior to removing Copper from his seat, but I think it could have been negligible. Once Ross realized the funky odor was his son, he maybe decided not to drive all the way to the theater, and pull over sooner.

But I truly think the smell of decomp was made worse by removing Cooper from his seat. It may have even loosened his sphincter, releasing feces and fluids from his bowels that were kept inside while he was strapped so tightly into his seat.

In any case, police have not elaborated, so really it is anyone's guess. We are all just trying to figure out WTF really happened.
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Slacker JRH may have only worked 6 hours that day but Cooper was inside the hot vehicle 7 hours. [iirc, 9:21a - 4:26p]

It is a known fact that people urinate and defecate when they die since all muscles, this includes sphincters, relax at TOD releasing the contents of the bladder and any contents in the lower intestines. This fluid could be captured by a diaper, depending on quantity, but I suspect Cooper also vomited when his core temp began causing symptoms of heat stroke. Furthermore, Cooper may have lost control of these bodily functions earlier when/if he suffered seizures from the hyperthermia. Whatever contents that may be left in the GI system began to ferment and create toxic gases that cause bloating and foul odors.

Little Cooper's life ended by, at least, eleven, or for an hour and a half, when JRH returned to toss light bulbs into his vehicle at 12:30. Those odors just from Cooper's diaper were not at all sweet smelling after 90 minutes in the enclosed heat and the bodily fluid odors only became worse as the day progressed in that hot car.

IMHO JRH verified Cooper was gone at 12:30 because he could smell the stench already, even in those few seconds with his driver's door open. In fact, I believe that a few hours later, the odor was so strong that the LEO on scene knew this baby boy had been dead for hours and wondered how JRH could drive an enclosed vehicle, while bearing the odor of decomposition, for any length of time, without realizing someone once very alive; was now dead inside his vehicle.

Per the PCH, if JRH was into viewing videos of people dying, perhaps he also relished in the fermenting aroma of death.
 
PoirotryInMotion said:
Nice or not, I'm using the word RH used--"choking." To me, that's a far cry from gas being expelled from a dead body. Choking involves spasmodic gagging and/or attempts at coughing.

While I'm familiar with the not-so-nice sounds and ways of a dead body (including spasmodic arm movements, even), I'm not going to give RH an out in this. It will be interesting to see if the State asks him in more detail about the "choking" he heard from the back seat. JMO

(And thanks for the link-work. I do appreciate that.)
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Found a link! About the moving and noise making.

http://h2g2.com/edited_entry/A2451683

"This is probably the most chilling manifestation of somatic death. The feet and legs of a corpse are seen to twitch or move hours after death has occurred."

"On the odd occasion, when these gases reverberate against the vocal cords, noises may even be produced."

All posts are MOO
 
gngr~snap said:
Found a link! About the moving and noise making.

http://h2g2.com/edited_entry/A2451683

"This is probably the most chilling manifestation of somatic death. The feet and legs of a corpse are seen to twitch or move hours after death has occurred."

"On the odd occasion, when these gases reverberate against the vocal cords, noises may even be produced."

All posts are MOO
Click to expand...

Just a passing thought I had - not my opinion - just another "what if's"

What if.....RH thinks he confirmed at lunchtime Cooper has died.
Now he's driving to meet up at movies and notices a moving and vocal Cooper.
Maybe the odor was from his own pants needing to be changed :giggle:

Sorry, no disrespect to Cooper - I needed to lighten up my own mood.:blushing:
 
Ruby said:
Just a passing thought I had - not my opinion - just another "what if's"

What if.....RH thinks he confirmed at lunchtime Cooper has died.
Now he's driving to meet up at movies and notices a moving and vocal Cooper.
Maybe the odor was from his own pants needing to be changed :giggle:

Sorry, no disrespect to Cooper - I needed to lighten up my own mood.:blushing:
Click to expand...

Actually I think that is a really good theory!
 
A few times, I have seen suggestions made (on WS) that perhaps Ross had left the child in the car before. This related to Leanna's response at the daycare, and possible "excuses" for watching/researching hot-car deaths online. In essence, the suggestion was that she knew he'd done it at least once and while he may have argued "all's well that ends well" Leanna was concerned enough to want to "prove" to him how dangerous this was and how badly it could end.
I do not know whether there is any truth to this SPECULATION, however if it DOES come to light that Leanna had "caught" her husband doing this previously (either for a quick trip into a store, or by forgetting to drop him at day care en route to work) what is HER culpability? Is she "neglectful" for leaving the child in the care of someone who not only had the potential to do this, but also a history of having done so? Do you feel that she is AS GUILTY (if we assume he really did make a terrible mistake and did not premeditate any of what happened) as her husband? Should she be facing the same charges?
Could "did you say too much?" relate to telling them about these past incidents? If so, she may already have realized she could be held accountable if he had, and it was HER behind she was trying to cover, not HIS.
 
LisaB said:
A few times, I have seen suggestions made (on WS) that perhaps Ross had left the child in the car before. This related to Leanna's response at the daycare, and possible "excuses" for watching/researching hot-car deaths online. In essence, the suggestion was that she knew he'd done it at least once and while he may have argued "all's well that ends well" Leanna was concerned enough to want to "prove" to him how dangerous this was and how badly it could end.
I do not know whether there is any truth to this SPECULATION, however if it DOES come to light that Leanna had "caught" her husband doing this previously (either for a quick trip into a store, or by forgetting to drop him at day care en route to work) what is HER culpability? Is she "neglectful" for leaving the child in the care of someone who not only had the potential to do this, but also a history of having done so? Do you feel that she is AS GUILTY (if we assume he really did make a terrible mistake and did not premeditate any of what happened) as her husband? Should she be facing the same charges?
Could "did you say too much?" relate to telling them about these past incidents? If so, she may already have realized she could be held accountable if he had, and it was HER behind she was trying to cover, not HIS.
Click to expand...
Not if she im'd him that morning and asked
Get to work ok?
and his reply was
Hell yea!!

If that is not what the im says
and it wasn't sent that morning, then sure, she should a the very least check in daily and MAKE SURE Cooper got dropped off.

Also if this im is him saying yea, got to work ok,
why would he not remember Cooper right then?
Was he lying to her on purpose?

All posts are MOO
 
It could be possible that RH was texting someone/a few different people at the time LH sent the "Get to work OK?" message and he responded to her with the "Hell Yeah!!" message that was meant for someone else - accidentally and didn't feel like backtracking/explaining was necessary.

MOO
 
I guess it's possible RH could have been responding to someone else. I.don't see.how the way text and im is set up on iPhone, but I don't understand him at all anyway.

All posts are MOO
 
Unfortunately, I do on occasion on my Android, which is similar. A new text from her could have popped up and he didn't realize it.

I just wanted to throw it out there. Not that it really makes a difference, but I am trying to wrap my head around why he would respond that way...
 
ishouldbworking said:
Unfortunately, I do on occasion on my Android, which is similar. A new text from her could have popped up and he didn't realize it.

I just wanted to throw it out there. Not that it really makes a difference, but I am trying to wrap my head around why he would respond that way...
Click to expand...
The only thing I could come up with is he was irritated that she was checking up on him.

So instead of Yes, honey.

He replied
Hell yea!!

:dunno:

All posts are MOO
 
LisaB said:
A few times, I have seen suggestions made (on WS) that perhaps Ross had left the child in the car before. This related to Leanna's response at the daycare, and possible "excuses" for watching/researching hot-car deaths online. In essence, the suggestion was that she knew he'd done it at least once and while he may have argued "all's well that ends well" Leanna was concerned enough to want to "prove" to him how dangerous this was and how badly it could end.
I do not know whether there is any truth to this SPECULATION, however if it DOES come to light that Leanna had "caught" her husband doing this previously (either for a quick trip into a store, or by forgetting to drop him at day care en route to work) what is HER culpability? Is she "neglectful" for leaving the child in the care of someone who not only had the potential to do this, but also a history of having done so? Do you feel that she is AS GUILTY (if we assume he really did make a terrible mistake and did not premeditate any of what happened) as her husband? Should she be facing the same charges?
Could "did you say too much?" relate to telling them about these past incidents? If so, she may already have realized she could be held accountable if he had, and it was HER behind she was trying to cover, not HIS.
Click to expand...

I think your narrative is what happened. And, in that case (barring any further evidence to the contrary), I do not hold LH responsible for what happened to Cooper. The responsibility is 100% on RH.

I would imagine conversations they had about the car would involve RH reassuring his wife that he would never put his son danger. And wouldn't most people believe that? If you viewed videos of the dangers of car death and then talked about it, I cannot imagine anyone saying they would keep doing it. It's completely reasonable for LH to trust the father not to continuing putingt his child in danger once he realized the danger.

She is not to blame for what her husband did on his own.

JMO with an open mind in case further evidence is presented.
 
LisaB said:
A few times, I have seen suggestions made (on WS) that perhaps Ross had left the child in the car before. This related to Leanna's response at the daycare, and possible "excuses" for watching/researching hot-car deaths online. In essence, the suggestion was that she knew he'd done it at least once and while he may have argued "all's well that ends well" Leanna was concerned enough to want to "prove" to him how dangerous this was and how badly it could end.
I do not know whether there is any truth to this SPECULATION, however if it DOES come to light that Leanna had "caught" her husband doing this previously (either for a quick trip into a store, or by forgetting to drop him at day care en route to work) what is HER culpability? Is she "neglectful" for leaving the child in the care of someone who not only had the potential to do this, but also a history of having done so? Do you feel that she is AS GUILTY (if we assume he really did make a terrible mistake and did not premeditate any of what happened) as her husband? Should she be facing the same charges?
Could "did you say too much?" relate to telling them about these past incidents? If so, she may already have realized she could be held accountable if he had, and it was HER behind she was trying to cover, not HIS.
Click to expand...

Inthedetails said:
I think your narrative is what happened. And, in that case (barring any further evidence to the contrary), I do not hold LH responsible for what happened to Cooper. The responsibility is 100% on RH.

I would imagine conversations they had about the car would involve RH reassuring his wife that he would never put his son danger. And wouldn't most people believe that? If you viewed videos of the dangers of car death and then talked about it, I cannot imagine anyone saying they would keep doing it. It's completely reasonable for LH to trust the father not to continuing putingt his child in danger once he realized the danger.

She is not to blame for what her husband did on his own.

JMO with an open mind in case further evidence is presented.
Click to expand...

Would it not be negligent for her to leave him with a caregiver she knew had a propensity for leaving him behind in the car? Her response at daycare makes it sound as if this was NOT something he'd done just once, and was very clearly her first thought. I had a sitter for my daughter when she was a baby. I provided a car seat. One day I got a call that the sitter's child was in the Emergency Room and I needed to come to the hospital to get my 13 month old. When I arrived, the grandmother, other children, and my daughter were sitting in the babysitter's car (she was in the hospital with her injured child) and there was no car seat. I took her home and began looking for new daycare. If my child had subsequently been injured in an accident with that sitter, I could not have forgiven myself if the car seat was not in use, since I KNEW IN ADVANCE the sitter was NOT using it regularly.
 
LisaB said:
According to: http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2...oy-died-hot-car-death-georgia-search-warrant/
Harris would not have been able to see his son (from the driver’s seat) in the older model.
This is the first time I have heard this! I was under the impression the child was MORE visible in the smaller seat. Anyone?
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I think what they mean is that a forward facing seat would have made it easier to see him at a glance in a mirror or the backseat, whereas in the rear facing seat basically only the top of his head is visible. It's technically true but the wording of the article makes it confusing. The rear facing seat was positioned in the middle of the back seat so the top of his head should have been easy for JRH to see.
 
LisaB said:
Would it not be negligent for her to leave him with a caregiver she knew had a propensity for leaving him behind in the car? Her response at daycare makes it sound as if this was NOT something he'd done just once, and was very clearly her first thought. I had a sitter for my daughter when she was a baby. I provided a car seat. One day I got a call that the sitter's child was in the Emergency Room and I needed to come to the hospital to get my 13 month old. When I arrived, the grandmother, other children, and my daughter were sitting in the babysitter's car (she was in the hospital with her injured child) and there was no car seat. I took her home and began looking for new daycare. If my child had subsequently been injured in an accident with that sitter, I could not have forgiven myself if the car seat was not in use, since I KNEW IN ADVANCE the sitter was NOT using it regularly.
Click to expand...

I would without any hesitation dump a babysitter who put my child in car without a car seat. I wouldn't bother to ask questions or educate her, I would simply fire her and move on.

If the other parent of my child did something like this, I would do everything possible to educate him....and I would trust him to comprehend the danger and mend his ways.

I'm not fighting about it as we don't even know if this scenario is what happened (though it makes sense to me). I find it very reasonable to expect a couple to converse about these child-rearing situations and to end the conversation with reassurances to each other and trust. Parents are perfectly capable of mending their ways and being trusted, and I would assume LH was reassured that RH wouldn't do it anymore. Of course, this is all speculation anyway.

I wouldn't bother giving a sitter a second chance, but I would trust the father of my child once dangers were discussed. RH, it turns out, wasn't trustworthy, but she didn't know that. His actions are 100% his responsibility in this case.

He's not so feeble that he can't understand the dangers and needs mommy-wife to do everything. The guy should've been able to handle the task of taking his own child to daycare without someone mistrusting him.
 
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