Questions I Have Not Found Answers To

[zoomama]

OT but thank you OTG for your question last evening on Tricia's radio show about the telephone in the basement and the possibility of the position of the phone since it was a wall phone for the hang up.

 

[Junebug99]

How is this misinformation?? He clearly never states that the GJ brought up charges. liar liar

This is a prime example why this board is so full of misinformation and rumors.
When you see proof you still deny it. If he said the Grand Jury chose not to indict that would be lying. Omitting info doesn't equal lying.

Grand Jurys have indicted innocent people before. An indictment doesn't equal guilt.

 

[Charterhouse]

Listen to the True Crime radio cast last night 12/29/2013. About 30 minutes in Chief Kolar spoke about the JBR case. It was very good. I had to laugh about a secret password to get into some of the meetings.

This case was really handled so poorly and on so many levels it is amazing. Even down to the reporters who were allowed information on the case was fixed. Also, what one specific reporters pay off was for doing a Ramsey Good Job reporting this case. Her bonus was the scoop on JMK. Those kind of bonuses I could do without.

Thanks again otg, koldcase and cynic for your questions as well as everyone else who asked such great questions. I wish you could have asked more. (We had the heavy hitters on last night)

It was very interesting that JK has not been contacted by any R or their attorney. As Tricia said, that speaks volumes.

Since the topic of this thread is Questions I have not found answers to, I will say that after listening to last nights show there are many questions that we don't have answers to as well as questions LE did not have answers too. Now if the DA's office has answers to some of these questions I fear we will never know. JMO

 

[Junebug99]

Ramsey's are damned if they do, and damned if they don't regarding suing. If they sue they must be guilty, if they don't sue they must be guilty.

 

[Charterhouse]

You are right Junebug99. I think the Ramseys are damned. IMOO

 

[Charterhouse]

I do have a question.
Did JK say last night that FW called 911 after he and JR found JBR? I was doing other things at the time and I don't know if JK said that about FW call when he ran upstairs after finding JBR or he was speaking of PR call.
Anyone?

 

[Landonsmom02]

This is a prime example why this board is so full of misinformation and rumors.
When you see proof you still deny it. If he said the Grand Jury chose not to indict that would be lying. Omitting info doesn't equal lying.

Grand Jurys have indicted innocent people before. An indictment doesn't equal guilt.

I'm not denying anything. If you read my previous post, he was very careful with his repsonse at the conference. If nothing to hide to why not come out and say yes they voted for an indictment but I'm not signing. Sure an indictment doesn't equal guilt but JBR deserved her day in court. AH denyed her that. He never said yes or no about an indictment. Again he was very careful with his words. What a snake,imo!

 

[DeeDee249]

There is something called a "lie of omission". AH did more than just NOT say there was an indictment. He said there WAS NONE. THAT was a lie.

 

[questfortrue]

I'm not denying anything. If you read my previous post, he was very careful with his repsonse at the conference. If nothing to hide to why not come out and say yes they voted for an indictment but I'm not signing. Sure an indictment doesn't equal guilt but JBR deserved her day in court. AH denyed her that. He never said yes or no about an indictment. Again he was very careful with his words. What a snake,imo!

Here ya go, Landonsmom02, God bless Wikipedia! Among 28 different ways to lie:
Lying by omission
Also known as a continuing misrepresentation, a lie by omission occurs when an important fact is left out in order to foster a misconception. Lying by omission includes failures to correct pre-existing misconceptions. When the seller of a car declares it has been serviced regularly but does not tell that a fault was reported at the last service, the seller lies by omission. It can be compared to dissimulation. Or,
Misleading and dissembling
A misleading statement is one where there is no outright lie, but still retains the purpose of getting someone to believe in an untruth. "Dissembling" likewise describes the presentation of facts in a way that is literally true, but intentionally misleading.
Dissembing works for me.

 

[Anti-K]

I agree that AH lied by omission.

However, there is the question of justification; example: if AH believed that revealing the juror’s decision violated Co. secrecy rules. Of course, the court has since decided that such a revelation does not violate any rules but this doesn’t change much. It just means that, at least in this context, AH was wrong.

AH might have been, like most of us, afraid to say, yes, those pants do make your bum look fat! The decision to not mention the juror’s decision may have been influenced by a desire to avoid any sort of confrontation or public/media backlash.
Regardless, I don’t feel like I was lied to, but I think it’s pretty easy to understand how many people would think otherwise.
...

AK

 

[DeDee]

I agree that AH lied by omission.

However, there is the question of justification; example: if AH believed that revealing the juror’s decision violated Co. secrecy rules. Of course, the court has since decided that such a revelation does not violate any rules but this doesn’t change much. It just means that, at least in this context, AH was wrong.

AH might have been, like most of us, afraid to say, yes, those pants do make your bum look fat! The decision to not mention the juror’s decision may have been influenced by a desire to avoid any sort of confrontation or public/media backlash.
Regardless, I don’t feel like I was lied to, but I think it’s pretty easy to understand how many people would think otherwise.
...

AK

I agree that AH lied by omission.

Regardless, I don’t feel like I was lied to

If you agree that AH lied by omission, why do you feel like you were not lied to by AH?

 

[Anti-K]

If you agree that AH lied by omission, why do you feel like you were not lied to by AH?

Because a lie of omission means information was left out of the telling and this is different than a lie which is a false statement.

Because, in this case, the lie of omission has no impact on the overall truth – that AH believed that they did not have “sufficient evidence to warrant a filing of charges.”
...

AK

 

[Meara]

Thanks, qft, for fetching the helpful Wikipedia information on 28 ways to lie (See also: 50 ways to leave your lover : )

Restated, dissembling uses the truth to tell a lie. Practiced by anyone in public office, it is more than dishonest. It is subversive.

When a person tells the truth in a transparent way, the effect is to level the playing field - morally, socially, politically, even spiritually. The person isn't exploiting the truth. Everyone gets the same information on which to base choices. This promotes justice.

When a person uses the truth to tell a lie, as AH did, he shares information but in a way that reserves power for himself. That is, the action disempowers others. He gets to make decisions based on complete information. Others get to make decisions based on what they think is complete the information. This promotes injustice.

Dissembling creates a double-bind because it both is and is not a lie. If we get caught up in debating it's a lie/no its not, we get stuck in the double-bind. While each side tries to win the debate, both sides are letting the dissembler define the debate. This distracts from the deeper desire, which is justice. Justice in this instance would have meant letting the public know both that the GJ had indicted both parents and that AH declined to prosecute so that the people could respond to the whole picture, not just the part AH allowed them (us) to see.

Raise you hand if you would have joined a grassroots movement to demand a special prosecutor if AH had said, 'Although the Grand Jury has handed up 18 pages of indictments against the parents, the prosecution team and I believe we do not have sufficient evidence to warrant the filing of charges.'

 

[Meara]

I do have a question.
Did JK say last night that FW called 911 after he and JR found JBR? I was doing other things at the time and I don't know if JK said that about FW call when he ran upstairs after finding JBR or he was speaking of PR call.
Anyone?

I don't know whether this will be helpful, since I didn't hear the broadcast, but, FWIW - in Thomas's book he says,

A panicked Fleet White ran up the stairs, grabbed a telephone, and punchd in a few numbers, then hung up. He ran back toward the basement, yelling for someone to call an ambulance, as if he had forgotten a detective was standing right there.

Schiller, in PMPT, says,

Fleet White was so upset he went into the kitchen. Arndt asked Hoverstock to lead everyone in the Lord's Prayer.....It was 1:12 P.M. when Detective Arndt grabbed a cellular phone in the kitchen and, returning to the living room, dialed 911.

 

[borndem]

Partial quote from questfortrue, and respectfully snipped:

The question I’ve never seen answered: From PR’s and JR’s public statements, why did they choose the age of 40 when BR might have a meltdown? (That was one of the central reasons they gave for hiring a psychiatrist for him.) Did the age of 40 have anything to do with PTSD? Just wondering out loud. And jmo.

Which girlfriend? He had a girlfriend whose name started with A, who lives in Atlanta. They dated around 2006. We are not sure, but we think he might be dating this new girl ("R") who does live in Indiana.

Maybe the fact that Patsy was turning 40 only a few days after JonBenet was killed has something to do with it?

bbm

Those are good questions, qft and 'hawkeye. What is the "magic" in this 40 years old thing -- we've all heard it & many of us (myself included) have been through that age, but we didn't turn green or anything, so what izzit?

Could it simply be the "midlife crisis" that some folks are said to have? And for some, mortality rears its ugly head. Dunno. Just thinkin' out loud, so to "speak."

 

[Mysteeri]

I have been wondering why no one (the family, friends or LE) seemed to express panic or even concern in the morning of the 26th when the ransom note clearly states that if the Rs talk to anyone "she (JB) dies". At least I don`t remember hearing or reading that this was discussed, am I wrong? *John was making arrangements to go to the bank and everyone waited for the phone call. All the while plenty of people were in the house and the kidnappers supposedly "monitored" the Rs, their actions and if they talked to anyone. Did anyone really study what the note said? The parents should be distraught that the kidnappers threatened to surely kill JB if they talked to anyone. And why on earth did the Rs invite all those people over- it makes no sense that they either did not read the whole rn or that they ignored the threats. You`d think a parent would hang on to every word it said especially about the conditions of her safe return.

Well to understand the Rs behaviour I don`t have to do mental gymnastics anymore (after abandoning IDI) but I wonder what the LE thought about this crucial part of the rn that morning.

Edit. *Patsy actually may have uttered all kinds of concerns that morning.

 

[gramcracker]

that part of the RN and the odd behaviors were immediately noticed, and reported by LEOs

patrol Officers French and Veitch were the first on-scene. French had no idea about the specific warnings in the RN until he read it. he was very surprised that PR had not mentioned in the 911 call that BPD should come in unmarked cars which they would have done, parking a couple streets away. that was protocol, if the circumstances required it

patrol Sergeant Reichenbach arrived next. French excused himself from interviewing PR and quietly told Reichenbach that "it looks like there's a kidnapping. But something's not right"

French included in his written report that PR "never took her eyes off me" and that he observed her "peeking at me through her fingers" when she was crying

LEOs found it odd that PR/JR avoided each other: rarely speaking to or making eye contact with each other, never touching each other, not sitting near each other. her focus was on her female friends and his focus was on his male friends

Detective Arndt stated that JR seemed unconcerned during the 2-hour window when the call was expected and he didn't stay near the phone. there were a couple calls from friends/family who'd heard the news and one of those times Arndt had to call out to JR wherever he was, to come answer the ringing phone

 

[dazeerae]

LEOs found it odd that PR/JR avoided each other: rarely speaking to or making eye contact with each other, never touching each other, not sitting near each other. her focus was on her female friends and his focus was on his male friends

Another question I have, which we will likely never know the answer to, is why didn't Patsy immediately run to the sound of John's agonized voice when he found JonBenet's body? The obvious answer is that she already knew he was holding their dead baby. She could have at least feigned concern. Was she busy gearing up for her Lazarus scene? Their behavior throughout the ordeal is incomprehensible.

 

[chlban]

that part of the RN and the odd behaviors were immediately noticed, and reported by LEOs

patrol Officers French and Veitch were the first on-scene. French had no idea about the specific warnings in the RN until he read it. he was very surprised that PR had not mentioned in the 911 call that BPD should come in unmarked cars which they would have done, parking a couple streets away. that was protocol, if the circumstances required it

patrol Sergeant Reichenbach arrived next. French excused himself from interviewing PR and quietly told Reichenbach that "it looks like there's a kidnapping. But something's not right"

French included in his written report that PR "never took her eyes off me" and that he observed her "peeking at me through her fingers" when she was crying

LEOs found it odd that PR/JR avoided each other: rarely speaking to or making eye contact with each other, never touching each other, not sitting near each other. her focus was on her female friends and his focus was on his male friends

Detective Arndt stated that JR seemed unconcerned during the 2-hour window when the call was expected and he didn't stay near the phone. there were a couple calls from friends/family who'd heard the news and one of those times Arndt had to call out to JR wherever he was, to come answer the ringing phone

Without restarting the whole "circumstantial evidence" argument (which most convictions are based on) all of these behaviors are stronger to me than the fiber evidence. People do react differently to grief, but if that RN had been real it is inconceivable to me that the parents would not have relayed that information immediately to the police. It is also inconceivable that they would be calling friends to come over. Not only because of the threat in the RN, but because of the tragedy. What sane person thinks to call their friends when they are dealing with their child's abduction?

Also very telling to me their behavior to each other. To me this ties in with PDI and John started to realize it when he read the RN. It could also be that they both participated in the staging and that avoidance was a kind of guilt.
Or they were blaming each other for the situation. That could mean either parent did it and the other, although covering for the other was still angry.
It could also mean BDI, they both wanted to protect him but each still blamed the other for not having done a better job protecting JB.

What it just does not mean is two shocked and frightened INNOCENT parents coming to terms with the tragedy that has just broadsided their lives.

Because when that happens very often even divorced parents will cling to each other in their shared grief. Kyron Horman's parents (I know that changed, but in the initial shock stage they were united), Completely innocent David Smith holding hands with that monster he was married to (but separated from) because he had no idea at that time what she had done.
Two parents that are still married and who, in fact, will remain married unable to even look at each other in the very first hours after their child is "kidnapped" and then found murdered in their own basement?

And they had no questions for each other or the Police? Did either hear anything, did either know of anyone that might have been watching JB. What about questions for the police? "Have you seen this type of thing before?" " Do you think they will return her if we pay the Ransom", "Do you think she could still be alive? nothing?

AND they are perfectly willing to send their son away with friends, without Police or private protection, when they think their daughter was just kidnapped???? No mother, not even a nut job like Patsy would let that child out of their sight.

Sorry, no how, no way.