Rape allegations mount against Bill Cosby #1

[Trident]

So what you are saying then, is that you won't believe the allegations without proof, yet there is truly nothing you can point to as defining, convincing proof.

As I said, Catch-22.

If ya can't prove the crime, why would you want anyone to do the time, or the disgrace?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

So what you are saying then, is that you won't believe the allegations without proof, yet there is truly nothing you can point to as defining, convincing proof.

As I said, Catch-22.

Evidence is is self explanatory. Something the proves the crime. I figured that was pretty clear.

 

[Donjeta]

So what you are saying then, is that you won't believe the allegations without proof, yet there is truly nothing you can point to as defining, convincing proof.

As I said, Catch-22.

No one ever got raped.

I'm happy now.

 

[Donjeta]

Evidence is is self explanatory. Something the proves the crime. I figured that was pretty clear.

What Izzy is saying is that there is nothing that could even in theory prove it to your satisfaction.
There could be no DNA evidence from when it wasn't collected because people didn't know about it.
And anyway, there is plenty of DNA in consensual sex too so that tells us nothing about whether rape occurred.
DNA doesn't tell us whether either person was conscious at the time DNA was left.
If there are bruises... well but there could be bruises in rough consensual sex or if you wanted to fake rape you could injure yourself on purpose, or maybe you fell because you were so high.
If there is eyewitness testimony, your words are that we shouldn't assume that they're telling the truth.

So what's left? God forbid one of us gets raped one day, what's the proof we should take care to collect?

Assuming that all the people who can't prove their claims are lying and should be discounted leaves us assuming that a great deal of real true rapes never happened.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

No one ever got raped.

I'm happy now.

No sadly women do get raped. And those rapists should pay.. but when we have people running around making accusations without proof then those who really have been victimized are stigmatized.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Evidence is is self explanatory. Something the proves the crime. I figured that was pretty clear.

If it's that clear to you, give an example of self-explanatory evidence that irrefutably proves the crime.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

What Izzy is saying is that there is nothing that could even in theory prove it to your satisfaction.
There could be no DNA evidence from when it wasn't collected because people didn't know about it.
And anyway, there is plenty of DNA in consensual sex too so that tells us nothing about whether rape occurred.
DNA doesn't tell us whether either person was conscious at the time DNA was left.
If there are bruises... well but there could be bruises in rough consensual sex or if you wanted to fake rape you could injure yourself on purpose, or maybe you fell because you were so high.
If there is eyewitness testimony, your words are that we shouldn't assume that they're telling the truth.

So what's left? God forbid one of us gets raped one day, what's the proof we should take care to collect?

Assuming that all the people who can't prove their claims are lying and should be discounted leaves us assuming that a great deal of real true rapes never happened.

So whose issue would that be. If I run out of the house and accuse someone of rape in 1984 and yet I have no evidence should they be prosecuted? No. No prosecutor would take on a case they can not prove.
I have had bruises from cleaning my house. Bruises only tell that you were hurt unless... You go to the hospital after the attack and they can document everything and see the fresh injuries.

I am not discussing evidence any more. We all know what evidence there needs to be to prove a case.

And some of us have been assaulted and that could be why we want to make sure that when people cry rape they can prove something happened.

 

[Donjeta]

If ya can't prove the crime, why would you want anyone to do the time, or the disgrace?

Soo.... the women who say they were his victims should have known instinctively that he was a bad guy and assumed that rape might happen if they allowed him to "mentor" them in a private space. The rest of us should assume that he's a splendid fellow who'd never rape anyone unless there's proof. Why?

 

[DexterMorgan]

If a 15 year old was in the Playboy Mansion with Bill; Then her parents,Hugh Heffner and others are to blame. So why didn't she accuse others.

 

[Donjeta]

So whose issue would that be. If I run out of the house and accuse someone of rape in 1984 and yet I have no evidence should they be prosecuted? No. No prosecutor would take on a case they can not prove.
I have had bruises from cleaning my house. Bruises only tell that you were hurt unless... You go to the hospital after the attack and they can document everything and see the fresh injuries.

I am not discussing evidence any more. We all know what evidence there needs to be to prove a case.

And some of us have been assaulted and that could be why we want to make sure that when people cry rape they can prove something happened.

Yes but in the meantime you're making damn sure that no one can prove something happened by putting the bar so high and indefinable that nobody can reach it in a date rape case where they were in a room together voluntarily.

What will you say if you get assaulted and can't prove it? Will you think it your duty then to stay quiet and let your attacker keep his reputation and warn nobody that he's a bad guy?

I don't believe Cosby will be prosecuted but if you were attacked by somebody in 1984 and that person is still around and available to attack more people I'd like to know so I can avoid being in a room alone with him.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Yes but in the meantime you're making damn sure that no one can prove something happened by putting the bar so high and indefinable that nobody can reach it in a date rape case where they were in a room together voluntarily.

What will you say if you get assaulted and can't prove it? Will you think it your duty then to stay quiet and let your attacker keep his reputation and warn nobody that he's a bad guy?

I don't believe Cosby will be prosecuted but if you were attacked by somebody in 1984 and that person is still around and available to attack more people I'd like to know so I can avoid him.

Im sorry... what?

First of all I did not set the standards. They are set that way by the law. Prove the charges. If you have allegations show something that backs that up. Other than just your word..

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

If a 15 year old was in the Playboy Mansion with Bill; Then her parents,Hugh Heffner and others are to blame. So why didn't she accuse others.

This case I will watch but all I can think is why would a 15 yr old be at the playboy mansion? And if she was 15 and her parents were aware of what happened why would they not run to the cops and hospital and make sure they had everything they needed to get him???

Something else sounds good and fishy here too..

 

[Trident]

Soo.... the women who say they were his victims should have known instinctively that he was a bad guy and assumed that rape might happen if they allowed him to "mentor" them in a private space. The rest of us should assume that he's a splendid fellow who'd never rape anyone unless there's proof. Why?

You're not making any sense to me. If you want retribution, you need proof that you have been hurt. Where's the beef?

 

[Donjeta]

Im sorry... what?

First of all I did not set the standards. They are set that way by the law. Prove the charges. If you have allegations show something that backs that up. Other than just your word..

This discussion is not a court of law.

Do you believe it's possible that someone might sometimes tell the truth and not be able to prove it?

 

[melissasmom]

A quick Google search on false rape allegations : http://www.icdv.idaho.gov/conference/handouts/False-Allegations.pdf

This study shows between 2%-10% of allegations are false. Sooo, just going off the high end percentage, if 30 women have come forward stating Cosby raped them, that means that 3 of them may be lying.

The victim-blaming and "they are lying for money" is rather disturbing, particularly when it comes from other women. Personally, you could not pay me enough money to come forward with false accusations of rape, especially against a celebrity. Public humiliation and people calling me a liar? Nope, I would pass. (which is why I think there are probably MANY more victims we will never know about)

 

[Trident]

This case I will watch but all I can think is why would a 15 yr old be at the playboy mansion? And if she was 15 and her parents were aware of what happened why would they not run to the cops and hospital and make sure they had everything they needed to get him???

Something else sounds good and fishy here too..

Exactly. Mighty fishy, all the way around in my opinion.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

A quick Google search on false rape allegations : http://www.icdv.idaho.gov/conference/handouts/False-Allegations.pdf

This study shows between 2%-10% of allegations are false. Sooo, just going off the high end percentage, if 30 women have come forward stating Cosby raped them, that means that 3 of them may be lying.

The victim-blaming and "they are lying for money" is rather disturbing, particularly when it comes from other women. Personally, you could not pay me enough money to come forward with false accusations of rape, especially against a celebrity. Public humiliation and people calling me a liar? Nope, I would pass. (which is why I think there are probably MANY more victims we will never know about)

The problem with statistics is that they give you a ball park not truth. They have no bearing on what actually is going on now.. Only after to compare it to.

 

[Donjeta]

You're not making any sense to me. If you want retribution, you need proof that you have been hurt. Where's the beef?

I'm not talking about retribution. I'm talking about the paradox where you're saying the alleged victims should have taken personal responsibility and known better and assume that Cosby is a bad guy and rape might happen avoid being near him at all costs. But if it's also wrong to take the alleged victims' claims seriously because he's to be allowed to keep his reputation intact, it means that everybody should assume that Cosby is a good guy until proven otherwise and would never rape anyone...

I just can't reconcile these two views. Should you assume he's a bad guy or else you're to blame when you get raped - but if you assume he could be a bad guy because there are people saying so that's also wrong because you're ruining his reputation without proof?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

This discussion is not a court of law.

Do you believe it's possible that someone might sometimes tell the truth and not be able to prove it?

No. Not when it comes to public allegations. If you can prove it by all means stand up and speak. But if you can't then I don't people should be able to cry rape without proving it.

What happens when it turns out that there is no proof. That nothing says this really happened... then what? We just assume he is a bad guy for life? Without a chance to face accusers and put on a defense??

To me this is all social media fodder.. nothing more.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

This case I will watch but all I can think is why would a 15 yr old be at the playboy mansion? And if she was 15 and her parents were aware of what happened why would they not run to the cops and hospital and make sure they had everything they needed to get him???

Something else sounds good and fishy here too..

Yeah because no 15-year-old ever told her parents she was going somewhere and actually went somewhere else, or spent the night with a friend and then went somewhere with that friend that she didn't tell her parents about.

And no 15-year-old ever didn't tell her parents about something bad that happened to her when she was doing something she wasn't supposed to do because she didn't want to get in trouble for doing something she wasn't supposed to do.

Fifteen-year-olds just don't think or act like that.