Rape allegations mount against Bill Cosby #1

[Donjeta]

I am finding some of the verbiage being used as part of these discussions to be most interesting. Bill Cosby is being "pilloried" and "crucified"? Oh, come off it.

The media are doing what media do - they are reporting. They seem to be giving the straight-forward facts regarding each allegation as it is revealed. What should they do? Fail to report it?

I suspect this whole thing is not over - not by a long shot.

He may find it shocking because he's used to people being quiet and silencing things to death. When the same allegations were in the media previously people seem to have shrugged and then went back to giving him honorary awards and speeches in awe of his excellence.

But the journalists aren't doing their job if they're not reporting on something like this imo.

 

[Trino]

And lest we forget, back in the 1960's and 1970's the law did very little to accommodate a rape victim in the courtroom. Often the victim was cross-examined more harshly than the accused and unless she had an “impeccable” reputation the outcome of the trial was that the rapist walked and she was branded an “easy” woman.

Rape shield laws started trickling through the judicial system in the late 70's but it took a number of years before all courts recognized them and even more before society accepted that rape is rape, regardless of what the woman was wearing or if she had consumed a cocktail.

Is it any wonder that the women who encountered BC would have been reluctant to come forward? Many were aspiring actresses and models. IMO at least in some of these cases it came down to facing jurors who were certain to judge them as immoral or goldiggers, let their rapist walk free, and at the same time destroy any future they hoped to have in their chosen career. Rock. Hard place.

http://www.vawnet.org/Assoc_Files_VAWnet/RapeShield.pdf

I certainly understand your point. However, didn't some of the women continue a relationship with BC?

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

I wonder what is going thru BC's mind during all this tumult. I bet he never expected this explosion of negative publicity and is a very miserable person to be around right now. Can only imagine what his home life is like these days.

I keep going back to BC's reported off-camera demeanor as mentioned by alleged victims and acquaintances: BC chiding an alleged victim that she was in the presence of "Mr Cosby" - as if he was God-like; BC demanding that the female staff of the Letterman Show watch in silence as BC ate curry; the video interview of BC lecturing the reporter on "integrity" and acting so domineering. What an ego.

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

"The comedian called the next day, asking her out to dinner and to meet her at the Whitehall Hotel. Masten went up to his room -- not suspicious at all, she said -- and four of Cosby's friends were with him watching sports, smoking cigars and playing cards."

"Cosby asked Masten if she wanted a cocktail before dinner, preparing a glass of Grand Marnier and ice behind her. She took it and drank it, she said."

"The next thing I knew, it was 4 o'clock in the morning," she alleged. "I woke up in a bed naked, bruised. He was laying next to me, and I slithered out of the bed... I got myself together, I went downstairs, I got in a cab, and I went home."

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/05/showbiz/bill-cosby-playboy-accusations/

I wonder if this alleged victim remembers who these BC friends were and if they will be interviewed.

 

[Donjeta]

I certainly understand your point. However, didn't some of the women continue a relationship with BC?

Some had continued contact, yes.

Janay Palmer married Ray Rice the day after he was indicted for knocking her unconscious. That might prove he didn't do it... except we all saw the video. People's minds work in mysterious ways sometimes.

 

[BirdycatNY]

Here's an old article on Marty Singer, attorney for Hollywood actors etc:

Guard Dog to the Stars (Legally Speaking)
By MICHAEL CIEPLY
Published: May 21, 2011
LOS ANGELES

"Mr. Singer acknowledges that defamation suits are tough to win, and seldom pay much. Usually, his aim is suppression. “Our goal is to try to kill the story, to take action before things get out,” says Mr. Singer, who will warn reporters against the consequences of falsehood, or, if he must, trade information to limit damage.

Even when those tactics don’t work, the publicists who refer clients to Mr. Singer in moments of crisis have the comfort of knowing they have recruited the best.

“Does he get results? Absolutely, yes,” says Kelly Bush, a Hollywood publicist whose firm, ID, asks Mr. Singer to help protect a star perhaps a half-dozen times a year. “I’ve had only success with Marty Singer.” "

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/22/business/22singer.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Some had continued contact, yes.

Janay Palmer married Ray Rice the day after he was indicted for knocking her unconscious. That might prove he didn't do it... except we all saw the video. People's minds work in mysterious ways sometimes.

That is not the same thing. She lives with him and in a cycle of abuse. That is her husband. That these women had continued contact says something big to me. If you are assaulted by someone who drugged you and you think you were raped, You don't show up again to see him. That is an easy fix.

 

[Donjeta]

It would certainly be wise to stay the hell away after the first time or even before that but you don't have to live with an abuser to be in a manipulative cycle. You may try to explain it away and denial is a strong force. Some of them were very young, and there were outside pressures such as people expecting that an association with Bill Cosby would finally make the girl's career. With the influence in Hollywood and the money he'd have had special kind of carrots to dangle in front of the girls and keep them coming back in the hopes that he'd make good on his promises finally. And at first you might try to explain things the best way, blaming it on drinking too much or illness etc. if you wake up confused and aren't exactly sure what happened to knock you out.


Here's Barbara Bowman talking about her story:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lid-harrowing-years-rape-hands-TV-legend.html

'He zeroed in on that like a laser beam.'My mother totally trusted him, too. She would have never let me into dangerous hands. She sent me off with her blessings. She wanted me to have these opportunities.'

Now, in retrospect, Barbara believes this was all part of Cosby's plan — to 'gain my mother's trust so that she wouldn't butt in and get in the way.'By the time I was drugged and raped by him in New York, he'd already broken me down, brainwashed me and made me feel like there was something wrong with me if I resisted his sexual advances.

'Bill would say that he needed to guide me, and that I must trust him. When he'd fill me in on my next itinerary to meet him, he would say, "You're not going to fight me this time, are you?" He'd remind me that if I was going to be a successful actress, I'd have to break down my barriers and "learn to be vulnerable."

'I knew something was wrong, that this was a twisted situation, but if I resisted, I was failing him and failing my good fortune. He was a pot of gold and I needed to take good care of it.'

Barbara said there were times she'd push him away, but then she'd give in. It was Reno, Nevada. 1986. Cosby's hotel suite was darkened.

'He turned out all the lights. It was completely pitch black. He laid me down on the couch and started caressing and touching me all over. Then he put my hand on his penis, covering it with his hand. He had me masturbate him. I couldn't see what was going on. When it was over, I ran out of the room and threw up.

'It was so invasive and frightening and humiliating. There was no way I could tell my mother. I couldn't even admit it to myself. I tried to convince myself that I'd imagined it. That it was a one-time thing, that it wouldn't happen again. And I was paralyzed with fear.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...years-rape-hands-TV-legend.html#ixzz3LDoY8bXb
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

If you believe her there were several things at work there. Denial, fear of disappointing her mother, manipulative skills, the lure of promises of fame and fortune...

From some of Cosby's statements it seems to me that he'd like this passed by as a few gold diggers regretting it later but even if the women were gold diggers it would still be a crime to give them pills to knock them out and then proceed to have sexual acts without their consent.

 

[BirdycatNY]

An old article on Constrand investigation below:

New Developments in Cosby Fondling Investigation
Jan. 27, 2005
Reported by ABC News Chief Legal Correspondent Cynthia McFadden on "Good Morning America."
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Story?id=446798&page=1

"A source close to the investigation told ABC News that Cosby's version of what happened between him and the woman and his accuser's story are similar in many ways. The dispute, the source told ABC News, is whether the contact between Cosby and the woman was consensual."

 

[Slebby]

I'm reposting this article, even though it was posted earlier. I read it again. I am so impressed with what Oswalt Patton has to say, he get's it, he understands what was taken from these women. Warning: lots of cussing....

http://www./1657701/actorcomedian-p...sby-comedians-have-known-for-long-fking-time/

… just imagine, he did the s**t he did to these women when they were young and they were on this upswing. ‘Oh wow! My life is starting, my career’s starting… I’m gonna meet Bill Cosby,’ and this awful thing happens. They can never talk about it, so he’s just shot the ground out from under them. Not just in that one incident, but for decades of their lives when they’re supposed to be enjoying the time when they’re in their physical prime, in their mental prime, enjoying life. Some guy takes that away from them, he doesn’t lose a second of sleep over it…

And this...
"...but at worst he lives in comfy seclusion for the last years of his life. He lives in absolute luxurious exile for the rest of his life. That is one of the horrors of life.'”

 

[Gardenlady]

That is not the same thing. She lives with him and in a cycle of abuse. That is her husband. That these women had continued contact says something big to me. If you are assaulted by someone who drugged you and you think you were raped, You don't show up again to see him. That is an easy fix.

Maybe they simply weren't strong enough, or smart enough (I don't think that, for the record - I think the reasons are more complex and deeply psychological, but I'm just going hypothetically). Maybe they had no common sense (again, hypothetical - I don't believe it). Maybe they were still hoping for stardom.

Does any of that make it okay that he drugged them, and without consent sexually assaulted them?


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[Redbird]

I would like to remind everyone we have an ignore button. Sometimes this might help to break up these circular arguments that start to trivialize the BC scandal and I personally think are an insult to those of us commenting here that have been raped, For example, when one has to argue against a stance of "proof" of rape being indefinable I think the ignore button might be the best way to keep this thread going in an adult, meaningful way.

 

[Nova]

That is not the same thing.. In a case there would be evidence that would be more than just someone words most likely it would not be 40 years and there would be a case that was put on. That is something I could weigh and decide guilt or not..

Here we just have people saying something happened. They are not under oath, Just telling the media and calling someone a criminal. I can not just accept that and get on board. I am not in the habit of defending criminals but I am also not just going to jump on the media train and buy it all hook line and sinker without more than someone's interview on ET.

You need to watch a few episodes of LAW & ORDER SVU. Or read about actual rape cases. It isn't at all uncommon for a rape case to depend only on the testimony of the alleged parties. Physical evidence of rape is very fragile and short-lived.

It's fine to keep an open mind and I agree with you that we may not yet have evidence "beyond a reasonable doubt" (though a pattern of criminal conduct IS evidence of guilt and it's hard to deny we have enough accounts to at least suspect there was such a pattern). But we're not conducting jury deliberations here; we're having a discussion. Different rules of evidence apply.

 

[Nova]

Sure it has but we don't convict people based on that. Something that happens in the newspaper and something that happens in a court of law is different.

And nobody here has said Mr. Cosby should be convicted without a fair trial. But that doesn't mean private citizens aren't allowed to form personal opinions.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Iam sure Hollywood elites back in the 70's would have ousted Cosby along time ago. I doubt people like Lucille Ball, Joan Rivers, etc would have not use their power to expose him. Once the Monica Lewinsky debacle happened; Then these victims should have known that Cosby could have been exposed as well. By taking the money, tells me that it was consenual but due to him not making me a star; Why not take his money. He was drunk; He won't remember. Jmo

 

[MsMarple]

I certainly understand your point. However, didn't some of the women continue a relationship with BC?

Beth Ferrier had an affair with BC but she claimed she was drugged and raped in Denver after the affair ended. The December 2006 article in People magazine reported that two Jane Does went on to have consensual relationships with him.

In each case however, it's important to keep consensual relationships separate from incidents of rape. Courts today acknowledge that people in long term relationships, even married spouses, can and do rape their partners.

I'm hoping Frank Scotti will continue to talk about his role in protecting BC's sexual exploits and that people involved in the modeling agency that brought girls to BC knowing what would transpire will also come forward.

To me (MOO), that BC is accused of raping women he allegedly had ongoing affairs with says he was very much into the power aspect of sex.

The number of women who remain involved with abusive men is surprisingly high; the threads here at WebSleuths attest to that. The “why” remains a mystery to me but apparently it does happen.

 

[Redbird]

It would be nice to think this BC exposure will show we as women have made advances in blaming the rapist instead of blaming the victim and that women in the entertainment industry are starting to stand up against "casting cast" power that I am not naive enough to think does not exist. I wouldn't be surpised if a hundred women come forward to reveal what many in Hollywood have known for years about BC.

 

[Trino]

Barbara Bowman said BC assaulted her multiple times. Multiple times? I just don't get how someone would place themselves in a position to be assaulted multiple times. One assault was at his home; another was at a hotel room.

 

[BirdycatNY]

I am tempted to doubt Mrs. Cosby didn't have suspicions at least, but I have no proof (not even claims by victims); so I'll leave that issue alone.

Same here, best to leave it alone for now imo. But hypo speaking, if allegations true, CC also may be a victim of drugging by BC too if BC has some kind of fetish, like somnophilia or sleep rape. Not a psychologist, but theory proposed online by others (not posting because not sure of source). more on somnophilia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somnophilia

 

[BirdycatNY]

Barbara Bowman said BC assaulted her multiple times. Multiple times? I just don't get how someone would place themselves in a position to be assaulted multiple times. One assault was at his home; another was at a hotel room.

Married women/men can be raped repeatedly and stay married. Casual dating the same thing. I can't speak for her, but sometimes an individual denies the act or minimizes the seriousness of it. It's psychologically and emotionally complicated. Maybe there is a psychologist or expert on this board who can answer that for you b/c it's not easy to answer. jmo