Rape allegations mount against Bill Cosby #1

[LinasK]

I don't know why filing a civil suit seems to cement the idea that these women are lying. In the cases where the statute of limitations has passed, this is basically their only remedy.

I'd want to hit him where it hurts, and for me, it would be less about me getting the money and more about him having to give it up. It would be about making him pay in the only way I could, and it would be SOME kind of acknowledgment that he did it and was being forced by the court system to suffer in some way for it.

BBM. Agreed! That's why I donated my uncle's blood money. I didn't want it, but neither did I want him to have it. I wanted him penalized somehow, so I donated it to Bay Area Women Against Rape in his name!

 

[Slebby]

Ohh the hypocrisy... Scolding women for having eight or ten sexual partners... how many people has Cosby had sexual encounters with? Whatever you think of the rape allegations it doesn't seem like he's been particularly monogamous in his life.

Your comment reminds me of the questions about wife Camille. Many wonder how she can stay by his side, so placid and, imo, falsely serene in the AP interview. I think the Cs dealt with the infidelity in their marriage long ago. I may be wrong but perhaps Mrs. C now conflates the rape allegations with his infidelities for which he is already forgiven. Maybe she sees it as nothing new, nothing but infidelity, rather than a sex crime.

JMO


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[IzzyBlanche]

Yes, wonder how many illegitimate children Cosby has from mothers both conscious and unconscious.

The hypocrisy is truly breathtaking.

 

[waitin'4thewrld2chg]

Your comment reminds me of the questions about wife Camille. Many wonder how she can stay by his side, so placid and, imo, falsely serene in the AP interview. I think the Cs dealt with the infidelity in their marriage long ago. I may be wrong but perhaps Mrs. C now conflates the rape allegations with his infidelities for which he is already forgiven. Maybe she sees it as nothing new, nothing but infidelity, rather than a sex crime.

JMO


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Yes, she must have come to terms with all of this in some way, so maybe for her it is simply infidelity.

I can't see a wife arriving at that conclusion, though, without first sprinkling a huge salt shaker full of rationalization and/or denial over the whole concoction.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Wow, the cognitive dissonance must be overwhelming.

“I just don't like dishonesty,” Camille Cosby once told Oprah Winfrey in an interview in 2000. “I don't like a lack of integrity. I think integrity should permeate every aspect of your life. And if you don't have it, I'm going to feel it, and that's the end of it.”

...

“When I look in the mirror, I know I'm looking at an honest person. I know I'm looking at myself, and I'm not looking at someone else I project to the world. What you see here is what you see everywhere I go....”

She added that she does not let dishonest people into her home. [Editorial comment from me: except Bill, that is. ]

Link: http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2014/11/21/camille-cosby-bill-cosby-sexual-abuse-scandal/

 

[Donjeta]

Oprah: Did you ever feel you were living in Bill's shadow?

Camille: I never felt overshadowed, but I looked up to Bill. He is seven years older than I, and he has always had a maturity, even when he was 26, when we married. So I respected his wisdom and his knowledge....

Read more: http://www.oprah.com/omagazine/Oprah-Interviews-Camille-Cosby#ixzz3KaprdY2Y

Oprah: I read that you and Bill went through a time in your marriage when you were both focused on selfish needs.

Camille: We were both young. We had to go through a lot. It's difficult to learn to live with somebody, to be unselfish and to be responsible for your behavior—and even to think how you hurt others if you do certain things.

Oprah: Like fool around?

Read more: http://www.oprah.com/omagazine/Oprah-Interviews-Camille-Cosby#ixzz3KaugDfOn

Oprah: I've always heard that we should love unconditionally.

Camille: No. That creates the long-suffering female. I think you have the right to not love someone if that person is not lovable.

Oprah: That is so powerful.

Camille: And that concept has to apply to a marriage, a lover, a business associate, a publicist. Even your children have to know that they are not lovable sometimes, that you don't express love for them if they can't love you back. I think it applies to everyone in your life.

Oprah: That makes sense. Over the years, women have said to me, "I love him. I love him." And I say, "Love is not supposed to hurt."

Camille: Love is supposed to feel good.

Read more: http://www.oprah.com/omagazine/Oprah-Interviews-Camille-Cosby#ixzz3KauRaq7p

 

[Nova]

I didn't mean you thought that, I have no idea what you think, but there are plenty of doubters of JD for those reasons previously mentioned imo. And of course it happens that there are women/men that want the attention and make up stories, but I don't think JDickinson is one of them. Does she have a pattern of making up rape stories on tv or false statements in court just because she may be an attention-seeking celebrity, or that is the kind of attention that she would want? I don't think so but I'll admit I don't know her (assuming all allegations true). It seems to me more likely that if someone wants the fame and fortune or the attention in Hollywood that one would not go about it falsely accusing someone of rape or discuss the unsavory aspects of Hollywood. I don't think this will further anyone's career, it's more likely they'll be damaged by it. I don't think how people are portrayed on tv etc is who they are in real life. But everyone is entitled to their opinions. I haven't dismissed any of the alleged victims yet unless shown otherwise. JMO

It just so happens I went to junior high school with JD. (Wikipedia is wrong that Debbie Dickinson is JD's younger sister. Debbie, a lovely and highly intelligent girl in those days, is my age and was in my classes throughout junior and senior high. If Wiki is right about JD's birthdate, Debbie and I are a year older.)

I don't remember if I ever knew JD, but we have plenty of mutual friends who say JD was known as "wild" way back then, in South Florida. However, nobody I know has ever called her a liar. (Note: by "wild" I do not mean sexually promiscuous, necessarily, just that I'm told JD wasn't big on following rules. She transferred to another school after junior high, so I'm sure I didn't know her after that.)

 

[Donjeta]

In the Oprah interview there seems to be an element of "us against the world" when she speaks of some things that went on. Eg. it seems like the Autumn Jackson case was stressful not so much because he cheated on her but because outsiders wanted to air the couple's private dirty laundry. If his shows were not full it wasn't because people weren't interested, it was because of a government and press conspiracy that made people avoid the show. Then their son's murder which she says tied the family closer together.

I wonder if the rape allegations tie into that, as one more obstacle that the world is throwing at their way.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Carla Ferrigno's account:

From article 1, BBM

She and her date and Bill started to play pool and in the middle of the game, she looks up and asked where Camille was.
'She's probably gone to bed,' Cosby told her.
'Things are starting to feel odd now. I'm from the South and you always say good night to your guests so I asked, "Why didn't she say goodnight?"'
'He said she was probably tired...'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ed-Camille-Cosby-left-room.html#ixzz3KbTkB07b

Article 2

But she could not believe what she perceived as the callousness of Camille Cosby.

“She’s known all these years,” Ferrigno said. “That made me so sick that I knew that. She disappeared, not even with a goodbye, nothing. I mean, I was in her home. She could have said goodbye. You know that she’s known this her whole life.”

Ferrigno strongly condemned not just Cosby, but his wife of 50 years, Camille. Camille was shown by Cosby’s side in a recent Associated Press interview in which Cosby asked a reporter that his refusal to address the rape allegations be “scuttled.” Camille sat beside her husband, smiling.

“That is disgusting that she would stay with this man, because she knew what was going on, and I wasn’t the first one and I wasn’t the last, and she’s still there,” Ferrigno said in an interview with the “John and Ken” radio show.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ncluding-former-playboy-bunny-carla-ferrigno/

Regarding the part I bolded, this is an excellent point. It is unimaginable that the gracious persona depicted in the Oprah interview wouldn't have the manners to say goodnight to her guests.

Also, it seems clear that Bill Cosby felt free to attack Ferrigno with no fear that his wife might interrupt him. Curious.

 

[lawstudent]

In the Oprah interview there seems to be an element of "us against the world" when she speaks of some things that went on. Eg. it seems like the Autumn Jackson case was stressful not so much because he cheated on her but because outsiders wanted to air the couple's private dirty laundry. If his shows were not full it wasn't because people weren't interested, it was because of a government and press conspiracy that made people avoid the show. Then their son's murder which she says tied the family closer together.

I wonder if the rape allegations tie into that, as one more obstacle that the world is throwing at their way.

I think you hit the nail on the head. I think Bill and Camille, for a variety of reasons, felt disconnected from most people, mostly due to their atypical lifestyle. I think a lot of 'power couples' become so overwhelmed by a sudden rise to fame and wealth and scrutiny that they really bond with each other and feel that their spouse is the only person who really knows them, both before and after the fame. It becomes 'us against the world.' Children and tragedies make that stronger. And that's why they stay even though people don't get it. It's not that they really try and argue an illusion of a perfect, faithful romance. It's that they have a connection that causes them to want to stay close and they aren't happy that others think they know better. It can be a screwed up marriage but a strong partnership. I do kind of get it, although obviously in this situation it sounds extremely problematic. I still have no comprehension of whatever goes on with Dottie Sandusky mentally, but I can somewhat understand Camille's twisted justifications if this is true.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Interesting article about Camille from 1998:

Mrs. Cosby's Racial Paranoia

What can be said about a mother who exploits the tragic death of her own son to deliver a racist diatribe against a nation that has showered her with privilege, making her family wealthy and famous beyond the wildest dreams of almost anyone alive, including the very objects of her hate? Yet that is exactly what Camille Cosby has done in a USA Today column: “America Taught My Son’s Killer to Hate Blacks.”

http://www.salon.com/1998/07/13/nc_13horo/

 

[lawstudent]

Interesting article about Camille from 1998:

I don't think that being massively rich cancels out the violent death of her son and social issues that she feels contributed, but that's another thread. But I do think this is interesting in that she and Bill were amazingly successful/rich and that is isolating in and of itself - I think it can be viewed as harder on black Americans because it is more of a rarity. Everyone has heard how Camille supposedly suggested the Huxtables be a doctor and a lawyer because she would never have been a painter and he would never have been a plumber (their original jobs). There is probably a sense of isolation, even more so decades ago, that comes from being so exceptional by anyone's standards, and then more so in comparison to other black Americans. The feeling that their lives wouldn't be viewed as realistic or accepted by audiences. I think all these factors has made them distrustful of others and very reliant on each other because their lives were so intense in many ways. I hope this post doesn't come off as political, because that's not what I'm getting at. I just think it could be a contributing factor to their seemingly strange bond.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I don't think that being massively rich cancels out the violent death of her son and social issues that she feels contributed, but that's another thread. But I do think this is interesting in that she and Bill were amazingly successful/rich and that is isolating in and of itself - I think it can be viewed as harder on black Americans because it is more of a rarity. Everyone has heard how Camille supposedly suggested the Huxtables be a doctor and a lawyer because she would never have been a painter and he would never have been a plumber (their original jobs). There is probably a sense of isolation, even more so decades ago, that comes from being so exceptional by anyone's standards, and then more so in comparison to other black Americans. The feeling that their lives wouldn't be viewed as realistic or accepted by audiences. I think all these factors has made them distrustful of others and very reliant on each other because their lives were so intense in many ways. I hope this post doesn't come off as political, because that's not what I'm getting at. I just think it could be a contributing factor to their seemingly strange bond.

BBM for focus.

I don't think it cancels it out either, but she is blaming the very same society that made her massively rich for the attitudes that led to the violent death of her son. She can't have it both ways, IMO. The same racist society culpable in her son's death cannot be the same racist society that made her and her husband fabulously rich by accepting the fictional Huxtables as realistic.

ETA: I'm not saying I thought they weren't realistic, but there has been a lot of reporting about whether the producers at the time thought they would be realistic.

 

[Crimson clover]

IMHO...Mrs. Camille's story is hers, and hers alone. Tabled for scrutiny... til her voice becomes 'vocal' in all BC's recent tabloid affairs.
I feel compassion...minute judgement for the wife, mother...whose shoes I do not wear.
She's accused of nothing...we should have to discuss.

 

[nrdsb4]

Can anyone provide links to articles detailing Bill's Cosby Show cast mates who have come to his defense after the latest round of rape allegations?

I figured the entire cast would be aghast at these allegations and would want to defend him publicly. I did see a snippet of the youngest cast member stating that he never laid a hand on her. She didn't state that she did or didn't believe the allegations against him, simply that she was absolutely not one of his victims.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I disagree.

If she knew, or even suspected, what her husband was up to and did nothing to stop it, she is complicit.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Can anyone provide links to articles detailing Bill's Cosby Show cast mates who have come to his defense after the latest round of rape allegations?

I figured the entire cast would be aghast at these allegations and would want to defend him publicly. I did see a snippet of the youngest cast member stating that he never laid a hand on her. She didn't state that she did or didn't believe the allegations against him, simply that she was absolutely not one of his victims.

None of the main cast members as far as I am aware. Which I find kind of curious. I figured same as you.

 

[Montjoy]

I disagree.

If she knew, or even suspected, what her husband was up to and did nothing to stop it, she is complicit.

I am also among those who think that Camille should not be part of this discussion. We have no evidence whatsoever that she knew or suspected that her husband is/was a rapist (as has been strongly and repeatedly alleged -- and I believe the allegations completely), so I do not think it fair to imply that she is/was complicit. If anything, I doubt that she knew, for if she did, she would have grounds for a pretty lavish settlement in a divorce, which I would guess she would want if she knew her husband was a rapist.

Sure, she no doubt heard that there were allegations, but I would not blame her for failing to suspect him. Many spouses build up an unshakeable trust in their partners, for better or worse, and it would be easy for anyone in her shoes to explain allegations away as attempt to extort money from a rich target. On the outside, it's much easier for us to see things for what they are.

At any rate, I don't see any reason to 'sleuth', question, or bash her here. This is about what Bill Cosby did on his own. Until we know more, I have to consider her a sort of victim in all of this, and I think that bashing her only victimizes her further. If we do find out that she knew about these attacks, I'd feel completely different.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I am also among those who think that Camille should not be part of this discussion. We have no evidence whatsoever that she knew or suspected that her husband is/was a rapist (as has been strongly and repeatedly alleged -- and I believe the allegations completely), so I do not think it fair to imply that she is/was complicit. If anything, I doubt that she knew, for if she did, she would have grounds for a pretty lavish settlement in a divorce, which I would guess she would want if she knew her husband was a rapist.

Sure, she no doubt heard that there were allegations, but I would not blame her for failing to suspect him. Many spouses build up an unshakeable trust in their partners, for better or worse, and it would be easy for anyone in her shoes to explain allegations away as attempt to extort money from a rich target. On the outside, it's much easier for us to see things for what they are.

At any rate, I don't see any reason to 'sleuth', question, or bash her here. This is about what Bill Cosby did on his own. Until we know more, I have to consider her a sort of victim in all of this, and I think that bashing her only victimizes her further. If we do find out that she knew about these attacks, I'd feel completely different.

I did say "IF she knew, she was complicit." I did not say "She knew, therefore she was complicit."

On other points, we will have to agree to disagree.

When 13 women accuse your husband of sexual assault with accounts detailing the same MO, how can you not suspect, even fleetingly, that they may be telling the truth?

According to many reports, Camille is the one who insisted--even against Bill, not to mention the producers--that the Huxtables both be college-educated professionals, and she got her way.

Yet she, as far as we know, allowed Bill to settle with Andrea Constand without a murmur. This isn't her "hearing about allegations," as if they were some sort of distant rumor.

IDK, it just seems to me that the same woman willing to go to the mat for fictional characters would be equally, if not more, willing to go to the mat for her husband to defend him--and prevent his extortion--against false allegations.

For clarity, I am not stating I believe she knew what he was up to. But I do think there is evidence (i.e., the lawsuit) that she had to have at least suspected it.

 

[lawstudent]

BBM for focus.

I don't think it cancels it out either, but she is blaming the very same society that made her massively rich for the attitudes that led to the violent death of her son. She can't have it both ways, IMO. The same racist society culpable in her son's death cannot be the same racist society that made her and her husband fabulously rich by accepting the fictional Huxtables as realistic.

ETA: I'm not saying I thought they weren't realistic, but there has been a lot of reporting about whether the producers at the time thought they would be realistic.

I know what the author was getting at, but he or she really oversimplified the issues and missed the mark in the execution of the argument. I imagine Camille also oversimplified a lot, as the death of her son probably was a very emotional topic. But I think that goes into the political pavilion. It does seem to show she is willing to take a stand, though, and isn't just a puppet of her husband.