Rebecca Nalepa - suicide or murder? #4

[Quester]

First off, let me say that I enjoy and look forward to your posts. Secondly, as I always say, just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you...
I would say it's definitely a "battle of life and death", but since LE won't confirm or deny anything, we don't yet know if the battle was a self-fulfilling prophecy. I do agree with what was said upthread... perfect storm caused by both DS and JS.

Thanks for the kind words, jstwondering!

I completely agree with you on your paranoid statement [haha - that didn't come out right but you know what I mean].

And also, very nice addition of the phrase: "self-fulfilling prophecy"! If true, it does add an interesting and fateful dimension to this double tragedy.

 

[gngr~snap]

Hey sugar..yes the police said her car was home and they did run her plates..they even asked neighbors. The disturbance..I believe..was the neighbors at JS house seeing the rescue pick up Maxie and then taking RN and GS to the ER behind the ambulance. The police never indicated a disturbance nor did dispatch.

So if the neighbors said there was a disturbance to media ..IMO it was rescue and police there because of Maxies fall.

Not 2 women fighting.

I have looked at hospitals on maps ..closest to JS home is about 10 blocks away..there is a golf course next to it. JS made it to hospital very quickly..so he was only a few blocks from hospital. all of this is very close..IMO

CBS 8 affiliate, neighbors reported a 'police disturbance' at Dina Shacknai's home on the day of Max's ... I can't find the original story anymore.
It's a blank explorer page?
It was probably police knocking loud on her door.
I was thinking if shortly after midnight at DS's 7/11- maybe JS went to get kids from Mom's houes for the weekend (late Sun night)... if there was a big fight that between DS and JS and both kids were injured. Max sustained a head injury the steps was made up and Rebecca wasn't going to take the blame for JS and DS behaving like wild animals.
-just working out different ideas.
but I think people just saw police looking for her.

 

[Curious Me]

You may be right. She may have been dead already.
Usually in suicide by hanging (where the airwat was cut off not allowing oxygen to the brain) you would only see black/dark hands and feet. Maybe a little discoloration around the mouth.
The blood is pulled by gravity.Their faces are still flesh tone.

Not that anyone wants to see but for those with a morbid curiosity...
about suicide by hanging *photos google it and go to images.
I have a link if anyone wants to see not photoshopped/fake pics.
(they are black and white):waitasec: I think

Black faces come from traumatic hangings where blood vessels or arteries are broken. This can happen due to jumping or the sheer weight of the person.
IMO she was murdered already dead before the staging was done.She was hogtied, layed in the grass while a table was located, the rope was tied and toessed toward the ground in the dark. the french doors were shut. When trying to retrieve the rope from the balcony to set the scene the old table broke.- so 911 was called and told of the "intended" scenario as instructed by ?whomever? to get their payday.
The media HAD to say she commited suicide in the nude by hanging herself.

The mnasion did not have security cameras but it might have had a security system. Looks like a sign in the grass by the front door. If it was set that night
makes me think she knew her attacker. -well that and how violent police said it was.

BBM Good post, gngr~snap.

 

[rosetattoo]

I agree how could anyone be angry at MS because of this?Bedwetting can occur for many reasons. DS is a psychologist. I think we can all agree she loved her son. If it were me and JS was disciplining MS in front of me...well just stand back. I would ask JS to step in another room and tell him that this is a medical issue and for him to let a doctor evaluate and treat MS. How sad. :sigh:

I can see having a fight starting with the bed wetting. When my kids went through that stage, it could get pretty tiring to have a kid wake in the middle of the night and need sheets changed. Maybe DS said something like "why don't you take a turn doing this? Why do I always have to do it?" and JS reacted angrily. Granted fighting and swearing at each other in front of the kid, who then might feel like it was his fault, is completely inappropriate.

 

[Quester]

I don't remember all the details but that reported argument over bed-wetting just reeked of passive-aggressive behavior to me.

In other words, they weren't arguing over the bed-wetting, they were indirectly arguing about everything else.

 

[gngr~snap]

BBM

..At the press conf.Tim Curran of the sheriff's dept. announced that they found a woman who was deceased,it's my opinion that some news articles mistakenly heard 'distress' and went with that.

http://www.10news.com/news/28534601/detail.html

- Police officers responding to a report of a possible death
shortly before 7 a.m. Wednesday found a woman in "distress"
at the 27-room manor, according to the San Diego County Sheriff's Department...and called in paramedics to administer aid
The police were responding to a death! Why would they call in medics?
* I don't know sounds lke she may have had a pulse. Why would they have brought the cervical collar if she was dead? :banghead:
Remember her trainer said she was a fighter!

<snip>
-... Medics pronounced her dead at the scene a short time later.
And maybe that's not what happened we don't have the 911 call.
They they have analyzed it!

Authorities said Adam Shacknai called 911 to report the death.
Adam reported her dead! Major red flag unless she was in rigors or he thought she had been up there long enough.

http://www2.fbi.gov/publications/leb/2008/june2008/june2008leb.htm#page22

In this case, the caller immediately declared the mortality of the victim. The subsequent investigation revealed that the caller had been romantically interested in his neighbor. He later confessed that he killed the victim because she refused to date him.
In the homicides in which mortality was not obvious, 23 percent of the callers accepted the death of the victim. Of this total, all were guilty of the homicide.

 

[WestCoastLady]

http://www2.fbi.gov/publications/leb/2008/june2008/june2008leb.htm#page22

Thank you for this - very interesting read!

 

[Salem]

WARNING:

ALSO - please remember, we do NOT sleuth minors, we do NOT post identifying information about minors, we do NOT name minors.

If a minor is a victim or has been publically named by LE as a perp, then their name may be used. In this particular case, the ONLY minor that may be identified by name is Max, because he was a victim. ALL other minors are OFF THE TABLE.

This is a strict rule and your cooperation is appreciated.

Thanks,

Salem

ETA: Further explanation on minor names. Even when quoting from MSM or other sources, if the minor is not the victim or the perp, we change the name to initials. We do NOT quote the name of the minor. This is to protect the minor. Please keep that in mind. Try to put yourself in the shoes of the parent of that minor. What would you think if your child's name was splattered all over the web.

Thanks Guys!

There is a lot of sleuthing of minors in this thread. Anyone who posts additional information about minors and their facebooks or other social networking accounts after this post will be recommended for a TO.

We DO NOT sleuth minors.

Post lands at random.

 

[MizStery]

We don't know the details and which one of them argued about what.
Usually people assume it's the father who was not happy, but we don't know that for that particular case, do we?

Hi Jenny,
In one of the articles i.e "Reports allege history of domestic violence" I thought there was mention of a incident between Dina and JS who both consider themselves academics ....over some issue. I was certain it was the bedwetting. But,I have said it before and I will say it again I have been wrong. I looked and cannot find the article. But we are on thread #4 and I have read about a bizillion articles.

I do agree with other posters who point out that they clashed on most things. And I agree that we do not know whom or what or even which parent JS or
DS instigated the bedwetting argument. I apologize to add confusion to a story that you need a roadmap to follow. :banghead:

 

[sargenet]

WARNING:

We DO NOT sleuth minors.

.

My apologies. I have edited my comment. I actually wasn't trying to sleuth the minors... I was trying to find info on DS and AS on social sites. Especially since nothing has been heard about DS in the last few weeks. I ran across some photos that were just heartbreaking when looking for info on DS....wasn't even expecting to find the photos at all and commented on them in error (newbie here!!). Have removed original info..

 

[katydid23]

I can see having a fight starting with the bed wetting. When my kids went through that stage, it could get pretty tiring to have a kid wake in the middle of the night and need sheets changed. Maybe DS said something like "why don't you take a turn doing this? Why do I always have to do it?" and JS reacted angrily. Granted fighting and swearing at each other in front of the kid, who then might feel like it was his fault, is completely inappropriate.

I went through a period of bed wetting when I was about 6 or 7 and I can remember my divorced parents bickering about it , not knowing I could hear them. My mom was convinced that if nobody gave me anything to eat or drink after dinnertime that I would not be able to wet my bed. She would blame others for giving me water or juice 'too late' when I soiled the sheets. Too bad she didn't recognize the connection between bed wetting and sexual abuse in my case though. I can see how it is much easier to think it is from drinking water after 9 pm.

 

[gngr~snap]

That was very nice. Thanks for sharing. She did like her blue eyeshadow. Something made me think while watching the tribute, what if she was pregnant when she died. Just adding more rumour lol.

Ok TOTAL SPECULATION HERE
My dear Watson!:websleuther:
It was said he was "about to propose" to Rebecca.
Think he was gonna do it at the party?
Maybe that's why brother was there so quickly?
Just said because of injury since RN died?- How horrible would it be to say I came for the engagement party she didn't know about, now she's dead.
KARMA! ok this is crazy but..
DS knowing about the upcoming engagement, asks GS to gently" trip" with her brother down the stairs and go call 911. even if he is not hurt real bad.Blame it on the dog and ask RN to take it to the dog sitter. Until MS is "better..
(so he will be admitted for observation)
This gets JS out of the house for a night and RN alone.
Now she will have her chance to "off" RN in a premeditated murder scheme so she can continue to live the life she is accustomed to.
No new wife or kids to affect her alimony/child support
MS's inheritance and no young step mom to steal away her son's affections.
GS was not her daughter and didn't live with MS full time, so she might could coonvince her:shush:
ok follow me here...
DS "arranges" to be unavailable that morning.
Leaves her car at home to throw police off a bit.
GS does it but it goes
HORRIBLY WRONG!
they both fall and get injured
MS is gravely injured.
you good so far?
MS is brain dead because of her love of $
She will lose ALL the child support she had.
(maybe he had a life ins policy/many kids don't)
The life she is accustiomed to is gone as well as
any hope of seeing JS on a regular basis to drop off MS.
RN will have ALOT more of the wealth DS wanted,
and posibly children with JS that will inherit it his fortune.
she really has to eliminate her!
NOW SHE IS SEETHING MAD!ullhair:
she goes to do the deed gets very violent
strips RN of all her dignity hogties her
and puts her on display where JS can
see her from the the picture window on the stairs
or the window in the Master bedroom in all
her glory when he comes home from the hospital for a break.
and gets out of there before sunrise.
DS returns to the her dying sons bedside to relieve JS
No one is the wiser. ONLY DS does not know that
AS was in the guest house!!
AS finds RN at sunrise, calls 911 and then JS.
JS never returns to the home.
No one can place DS there right?
but wait! what clue do we have that it WAS her?
Her MO? NOISE!!! LOUD MUSIC!!!
how many times in the last 3 yeras did police respond to
DS's home with complaints about noise??? 3-4

How many times did police respond to the
Spreckels Mansion in the last 3 years? 0
IT gets worse...:behindbar
She thinks she pulled it off.
only she will be arrested for double homocide
and spend the rest of her life in a cell, maybe even on death row,
UNLESS she mysteriuosly dies or REALLY commits suicide!
It totally blew up in her face!
She lost everything over wanting
to get rid of the other woman.
~ case solved.:giggle:
no. seriously the woman would have to be
certifiable to do that.

 

[Morag]

Verry interesting- but why would GS be the least bit inclined to do a dangerous favor for her father's second wife? But the proposal and pregnancy ideas...mmmm.

 

[time]

http://www.10news.com/news/28534601/detail.html

- Police officers responding to a report of a possible death
shortly before 7 a.m. Wednesday found a woman in "distress"
at the 27-room manor, according to the San Diego County Sheriff's Department...and called in paramedics to administer aid
The police were responding to a death! Why would they call in medics?
* I don't know sounds lke she may have had a pulse. Why would they have brought the cervical collar if she was dead? :banghead:
Remember her trainer said she was a fighter!

<snip>
-... Medics pronounced her dead at the scene a short time later.
And maybe that's not what happened we don't have the 911 call.
They they have analyzed it!

Authorities said Adam Shacknai called 911 to report the death.
Adam reported her dead! Major red flag unless she was in rigors or he thought she had been up there long enough.

http://www2.fbi.gov/publications/leb/2008/june2008/june2008leb.htm#page22

In this case, the caller immediately declared the mortality of the victim. The subsequent investigation revealed that the caller had been romantically interested in his neighbor. He later confessed that he killed the victim because she refused to date him.
In the homicides in which mortality was not obvious, 23 percent of the callers accepted the death of the victim. Of this total, all were guilty of the homicide.

Very interesting, thank you.

I wish there was more in the article about the killer making a 911 call when the victim has been dead for a while - in other words, they just walk in and find them already dead.

 

[branwynbreeze]

I have a headache and am trying to catch up on thread, but a number jumbled thoughts have been going through my mind. I will try to express some as clear as possible. Heaven knows I'm not good at doing that on a good day.

1. Not sure if this has been mentioned, but:
http://www.memorialhospital.org/library/general/stress-the-3.html

Five Stages Of Grief

Denial and Isolation.
At first, we tend to deny the loss has taken place, and may withdraw from our usual social contacts. This stage may last a few moments, or longer.

Anger.
The grieving person may then be furious at the person who inflicted the hurt (even if she's dead), or at the world, for letting it happen. He may be angry with himself for letting the event take place, even if, realistically, nothing could have stopped it.

Bargaining.
Now the grieving person may make bargains with God, asking, "If I do this, will you take away the loss?"
Depression.
The person feels numb, although anger and sadness may remain underneath.

Acceptance.
This is when the anger, sadness and mourning have tapered off. The person simply accepts the reality of the loss.

From tragic deaths in my family the final stage seems at times not to be achieved or perhaps altered to a way it can be accepted. There has been incidences where I have gotten a different story depending on who I asked. My dad told me one relative was murdered, my uncle told me it was suicide. This happened when I was a small child. I believe suicide, my dad could not accept it, I think.

Some where swept up the rug. One of my cousins is a psychologist, but was shocked when I sent her news clippings/pix of her dad testifying as a child in murder of his father. She also didn't know that her father ID'd his stepfather when he committed suicide.

My uncle is the worst family gossip ever and the one to notify all when there's a pending funeral. When one of my cousins committed suicide a couple years ago he wouldn't give any details except coroner is awaiting tox report. I had to ask another cousin for details which it turned out to be connected to another family incident.

I guess my long rambling point is people may believe what is the easiest (or safest or their mental well being) for them to comprehend despite facts at time. While truth may be known in back of some minds, it's too painful to deal with. This along with PR firm may be reason no JS/DS statements.

 

[justice be served]

Having read now everything on the posts - albeit without total recall! - here's my theory only for what's it worth:
JS, although obviously accomplished professionally, has perhaps evolved personally into a megalomaniac over time. His continual upgrading of wives, controlling attitude expressed by the frightening quotes per DS on police reports, narcissim with his looks, obvious PR stance which intimates that money buys public opinion (and defense!), taste in housing/company hdqtrs and legal wrangling speaks to a man that believes he is above the common person and the law.
RN, as lovely as she was, perhaps wasn't as loving or committed to JS' children. Some may have thought she was bordering on abusive to the youngest. Once MS was accidentally injured, JS blamed RN based on those intimations of abuse. JS staged the outing of RN to look like a sexual incident gone wrong based on RN's known kinky intimate tastes. During his rage (justified, of course, in his megalomaniac mind), music was turned up loud for cover up. Whether the dirty deed was done personally by JS, JS's brother or by a "for hire" (doubtful in my mind) -- JS was the real perpetrator just doing what he does best -- controlling the object of his disdain and thinking he's smart enough to make the deed look palatable with a story to match. Problem is, in his rage, it really was not thought through very well at all and it became a mish-mash of both suicide and S&M as a story. As smart as a person may be - no one thinks very well during rage.
Just my little opinion based on the blogs.

 

[CuriousAmazon]

DS knowing about the upcoming engagement, asks GS to gently" trip" with her brother down the stairs and go call 911. even if he is not hurt real bad.

I hope I don't get in trouble for saying this (hopefully this is okay with the Moderator)...but there's some confusion here to the relation: GS is not related to DS, so I don't think this scenario is even slightly possible. GS is from the 1st marriage; MS is from the 2nd, so they are considered "half" brother/sister.

 

[defense101]

Hmmmmm ....... Is somebody already publicly setting up their defense?

Namely: Not guilty of murder due to temporary insanity as a result of RN having murdered the boy.

I think what he meant is that without the one happening the other wouldn't have, so they are connected. IMO

 

[gngr~snap]

How can you get mad about a child wetting a bed?
Someone has rage issues.

I can't see JS really worrying about it HE didn't change beds and do laundry.- I'm sure "the help" did it. (I'm assuming they were seperated at that time.)

[added my previous post for clarity here]
Just an educated hunch based on the appearance of the good Dr. (retired?, known as a hire-able consultant for trials) into this case, his having linked the two incidences, as well as the facts of the cases (as we know them to date) and the players (as much as we understand of them thus far).

I am now of the opinion that he does work with blinders on. Doesn't need all the lifestyle and personality. (I think he hears dead people!)

I interpreted Dr. Spitz's statement that the individual bodies and circumstances shouldn't be looked at individually, but collaboratively, since they occurred in the same area, under questionable circumstances, within a short period of time
Basically, no different than what a lot of posters on the thread have said.
It's not really "setting up a defense" - he was saying what they needed to look at.
He's not even seen the medical records, so he can only say how they would go about evaluating it. He has no more insight into this case than we do. Also, my perception of him from a telephone call is that he's not likely to go along with a theory of the case if he does not feel the science doesn't go along with it It's why the firm I work for didn't use him in the case we asked him to look over - his medical opinion wasn't good for our client. He's very stubborn and set in his opinions, once made.

I have learned as crazy as an old timer sounds... they have a lifetime behind them that I can't fathom. They may not be able to set the timer on the DVR- but they can peg people. (within reason) he's done a few autopsies in his life... obviously can't exlain why or how he came to his conclusions...

Verry interesting- but why would GS be the least bit inclined to do a dangerous favor for her father's second wife? But the proposal and pregnancy ideas...mmmm.

It was supposed to ba a "feigned injury"
Munchausen syndrome?
Maybe she just wanted to ruin the party/moment
for attention for her and her hurt child.
If she wanted to kill RN... she needed her alone.
How else could she get MS and JS out of the house?
I think GS was planning on leaving on Wed, after the party.
She was running out of time!
It was all about timing!
MS gets hurt from a "fall" like all rambunctious
6 year olds do.
I'm taking GS out of the equation.
There is no proof he even fell.(yet)
Maybe it wasn' trauma.
Maybe it was hypoxia. From respiratory distress.
All we have heard for sure is he was found
at the bottom of the stairs. No pulse or respirations.
DS could have given him something to make him
appear under the weather...like a little stronger than
benedryl....... and maybe dad gave him another medicine
for something else not knowing mom gave him something
earlier that evening?? He got a double dose/had an
interaction passed out at steps or fell down them?
come on... someone had to light the wick on
that stick of dynamite. DS didn't live there....
I can't make it work.but you are right. she would not involve GS
or anyone that could tell so it had to be her!
But how?
:dunno: well it's just words!
It had to be about that party!
or not...

 

[CuriousAmazon]

RN, as lovely as she was, perhaps wasn't as loving or committed to JS' children. Some may have thought she was bordering on abusive to the youngest.

In every photo I've seen, which is basically only two or three, with both RZ and DS, they appeared to be comfortable. He looked happy when he was in her arms. I also have not heard anything about her even being abusive, actually quite the contrary.

JS staged the outing of RN to look like a sexual incident gone wrong based on RN's known kinky intimate tastes.

I understand people discussing the sexual incident gone wrong theory because of the Carradine story, but I don't believe this at all. Every indication was that she was raised religious and was a Christian. Not to say that doesn't happen behind closed doors, but usually people with kinky fantasies have a history there so someone an ex-wife/girlfriend or ex-husband/boyfriend, witness at a swinger party, teens/neighbors spying on RZ, etc would have made some sort of statement to that effect by now.

Just my two cents.