Rebecca Nalepa - suicide or murder? #6

[defense101]

Meh, it could be a side factor, stress contributor, part of motive, secrets to keep, the dog ate the contract, blah blah blah:crazy:

:seeya: Time, imo the side factor and stress contributor was MS's accident as well as the dog arfed the contract and blah blah blah :crazy:

 

[time]

I think that is quite possible!

 

[Inobu]

I would venture to say that Defense101 was trying to convey that most likely, the corporation and its holdings are beyond the scope of SDSD's investigation.

Factor that support his view............

Wednesday evening, former District Attorney and current defense attorney Paul Pfingst showed up at the crime scene. Pfingst confirmed to News 8 that he had been hired to represent someone connected with this case, although he would not specify who his client is.

"I'm not Jonah's lawyer. I've never spoke with him. As far as I know he's not a suspect of any type," Pfingst said in a statement.



What does this mean?

In a criminal trial the prosecution must disclose to the defense, before the trial, all relevant evidence they have. The above statement indicates that Pfingst was gathering information based on that facet of the law. This means that the case is being presented. His statement was made on July 18

The probability of SDSD presenting a corporate espionage, extortion or SEC type investigation is extremely low.


Inobu

 

[StJohn]

I'm catching up on everyone's ideas, so many good avenues to explore! I'm still intrigued by the Medicis angle, more on that later.

Just wanted to say a word about the suicide theory-- as I've said, I personally feel very strongly that RN's death was murder, not suicide. My opinion is not based on her reportedly sunny, life-affirming personality -- a person who doesn't fit the stereotypical suicidal personality (depression and/or bipolarity and/or family history of severe depression/suicide, and/or a traumatic head injury and/or a serious-terminal illness, etc.) can take their own life in dire circumstances.

( I respectfully disagree that the 9/11 example is applicable here -- those who jumped from the Towers did so in panic or to escape the horror of the fiery death that literally drove them to the
windows and out. They did not stop and plan an elaborate, naked, self-binding. They leapt in terror beyond any imagining. Whatever agony that RN may or may not have felt due to MS's brain death, I don't think it equates to a literal fireball driving her out a window. But then very little ever could equate to those poor 9/11 victims. Still so awful to imagine what they endured at the last).

But that's not to say that causing a sweet child's death wouldn't make her want to
kill herself. It would sure make ME want to kill myself -- except that, like RN had, I have people who count on me to live no matter what Ive done. Even if I caused a child's death, my mom, sibs, friends, and extended family, including
several young children who love me -- all of whom have loved me longer than three years --would all need for me to live. Would I hate myself so much for
accidentally causing a child's brain-death that I would betray every other person in my life, including my own blood family (and my boyfriend too), by killing myself?

No. And Im not any stronger or saner than you are. I'm average. So far, it seems that RN was, too. She had the same kinds of ties that I have, that you probably have. Would I bail on my kid sister because I accidentally caused a
child's brain death?

But okay, say I did decide to betray everyone, including my parents and siblings, my own blood family, and kill myself because I caused the accidental
brain-death of my boyfriend's child. Would I do it in the most public, embarrassing, in-your-face way I could think of? Would I really go far, far out
of my way to do something genuinely bizarre, public and oh-so-elaborate to essentially say a giant "*#*# you!" to the world, particularly my parents, because I was just so remorseful?

Would I do it in my boyfriend's own house, while he sat at his dying son's bedside, so he'd have my mess to clean up?

Would I do it in a way that would make him a sure target for a police investigation, and negative public speculation -- because I just felt so terrible for causing profound devastation already? Nothing says "Sorry I killed your child!" like making the parent a murder suspect. (and come on, unless she was genuinely mentally feeble, she would HAVE to have known that suicide in this
manner would, shall we say, invite inquiry).

Nope. Not unless I actually hated said boyfriend and everyone else, and believed the world revolved around me. And if I happened to be THAT narcissistic, I wouldnt kill myself to begin with.

And yes, that's me, not RN, but so far, Ive heard nothing that tells me that RN was so terribly different from an average bear like me.

So given all this, in my opinion, the elaborate, freakish means of death does not match the scenario of suicide as (1) an impulsive, desperate flight from guilt, or (2) an act self-punishment due to unbearable remorse. Too calculated for the former, too punishing to JS (and all loved ones) for the latter.

But all that said, this too must be said --what do I know? Not a thing, really, so my opinion really is nothing but MOO -- not just "my own opinion" MOO but also about as meaningful as a cow's MOO without some facts!

But I just can't shake the instinct that this woman did not strip, tie herself up with odd, unwieldy bindings, painfully contort herself into a bizarro pretzel, dive off her boyfriend's house in hopes that the whole rickety hogtie-style contraption would work out in suicide rather than severe fractures, and do that without regard to her own loving family -- just to say how sorry she was for
hurting someone accidentally.

Sometimes--oftentimes-- the simplest answer turns out to be the right answer. So for me, with the facts we know, it's murder.

(But the simple-is-right maxim does whack my whole Medici conspiracy theory,
lol)

First, let me clarify that the 9/11 example I used was not to suggest that RN's circumstances compared to what the WTC victims were facing. My point is, that none of us know for sure what we would or would not do until we are actually in such a situation. Ronald Maris, the forensic suicide expert I quoted, stated that suicide is an escape for the person who is suffering - at the point in time of the act, they can see no other way out of their pain. As far as RN being like you and me, well, maybe, but none of us who post here (that I am aware of) knew her personally. And one difference between RN and you and me is that she actually did find herself in this unthinkable situation. As for why she would allow herself to be found in such a humiliating state, nude, in the courtyard of her boyfriend's mansion? Well, I can't answer that one. But we don't know what the state of her relationship with JS was at that point in time. There may have been a heated argument, he may have stated, or implied, that they were over. She needed comfort, she was surely hurting, he may not have been willing to give it to her, may have made her feel to blame. It does seem that if RN did commit suicide in such a manner, she intended to send a message.

All that being said, I find myself less interested in posting on this thread as time goes by as I see most of my fellow posters who were inclined to see this as a suicide have stopped posting. I have sensed subtle, and sometimes not-so-subtle implications that if you don't think this was a murder, then your thinking is not quite right. Not from every poster here, but the majority.

 

[Bonepile]

All that being said, I find myself less interested in posting on this thread as time goes by as I see most of my fellow posters who were inclined to see this as a suicide have stopped posting. I have sensed subtle, and sometimes not-so-subtle implications that if you don't think this was a murder, then your thinking is not quite right. Not from every poster here, but the majority.

I have not .. I think my first couple of posts indicated "suicide". Having been a part of the results of suicide 10 or 15 years ago I can tell you that it is not a subject one wants to comment on, to think about, to analyse too much or to come to the conclusions as to the why cause I will NEVER know the why.

With regard to RN the blue scarf is the asian symbol for immortality color wise and fits my impression of her favorite color. If you look at most photos of her she is wearing blue. Clothes, ear rings, heavy eye shadow so why not wear it in death her final statement. As I pointed out in what seems ages ago JS may have threatened her may have screamed at her" if my son dies I will kill you" and she realized that everything that was important to her in this life was about to be gone, finished, done with, and she would carry the blame of this child's death with her for the rest of her life, and even her family would disown her .. so ... she did herself in. Plain and simple. BUT ... I want to think of this horrible incident as a murder, a not so carefully planned murder to take on the appearance of suicide, a murder staged in the absolute darkness of night or behind the doors of that patio in the light ... and who knows .. maybe it is just that.

So do not give up .. do not think for a minute that the suicide exponents have all but faded away cause they have not, and hopefully will not.

 

[Quester]

I’m still on the fence, hanging sideways on one side [murder] with one leg hooked over the top, but still on the fence.

Re: suicide theory – I think we’re seeing less posts about this theory because there is less to speculate on. Without new news there’s not too much more we can say that hasn’t already been said. My take is that IF suicide, there may have been a breaking point. RN may have been either overwrought with feelings of guilt about MS [she could have been but I don’t believe this was her breaking point], OR she may have been devastated by the combined MS brain-death under her watch PLUS JS dumping her or harshly blaming her [dumping and blaming are my speculations; I believe this combination could have been her breaking point] which could have caused her to take her life in such a dramatic, shocking, and humiliating fashion.

Re: stock/company/industry info – Personally, I think this is another fascinating aspect to these cases. Whether or not it has anything to do with these cases is yet to be seen. In the mean time, WOW!

I subscribe to the simple philosophy. The simplest explanation is probably the way it happened. [MS - tragic, freak accident; RN - suicide as a result of above combined reasons OR revenge/snapped murder] Granted, this may be a naïve philosophy in these particular cases with all that we are discussing about the company/industry. However, IF RN was murdered, I have a difficult time getting past the rage that a certain someone would have built up over the course of at least two years against RN coupled with an ultimate game changer on that Monday (MS’ brain-death), two days prior to RN’s discovery, which could have brought all of that passive, repressed rage to the fore and exploded. This very possible rage frightens me along with the unbelievable adrenaline powered physical strength that reasonably accompanies it.

[Note: I don’t believe that she would have turned into the Hulk but, relative to her normal strength, I have no doubt that she would have been super strengthened enough to have been able to do this deed.]

MOO

 

[time]

Ok, my two cents.

I think the suicide theory is hard to swallow. It's highly improbable and I think at least two experts have said so. Possible, maybe. Early on the suicide theory was talked about in detail with many describing how it was possible and why Rebecca might have committed suicide. The article on 'naked suicide' has been linked many times also. I would have a difficult time buying it as a suicide even if they said it was a suicide unless they had some darn good evidence and explanation to prove it.

Sorry for repeating, but did the whole suicide thing come up in the first place just because LE was pushed on the 'could it be a suicide' and said it's possible (that long LE presser)? Wondering since most comments on articles indicate this made LE look silly.

 

[Chablis]

BBM
I agree. Her anger and rage would not be about her meal ticket at all. It was about losing her husband and then, worst of all, her little son's life. I would be seething with rage if I were her. And I could be angry enough to lash out if I thought the woman was actually negligent and responsible for my child's death. But I cannot see myself going through all of that weird staging and tying knots and hogtying and throwing bodies over balconies...

Maybe she paid someone to do it, or had an angry brother, thats my bet.

 

[time]

However, IF RN was murdered, I have a difficult time getting past the rage that a certain someone would have built up over the course of at least two years against RN coupled with an ultimate game changer on that Monday (MS’ brain-death), two days prior to RN’s discovery, which could have brought all of that passive, repressed rage to the fore and exploded. This very possible rage frightens me along with the unbelievable adrenaline powered physical strength that reasonably accompanies it.

[Note: I don’t believe that she would have turned into the Hulk but, relative to her normal strength, I have no doubt that she would have been super strengthened enough to have been able to do this deed.]

MOO

Someone could have held a gun or knife to her, she complied, and was tied up partially which would mean they didn't have to overcome her. Even if she was tied up there could have been some attempt on her part to escape or struggle (just thinking about possible evidence they took, picture and rug). Until they divulge the tox screen, I think it's possible some one drugged her - either directly or indirectly. Of course, that could look like it was part of a suicide also unless they can tell it was taken too early to then have tied herself up.

 

[time]

Originally Posted by StJohn: All that being said, I find myself less interested in posting on this thread as time goes by as I see most of my fellow posters who were inclined to see this as a suicide have stopped posting. I have sensed subtle, and sometimes not-so-subtle implications that if you don't think this was a murder, then your thinking is not quite right. Not from every poster here, but the majority.

I think you are feeling that way because it may be more the minority, but I also think a lot of posters interested in this case have quite posting because there hasn't been any new evidence. I'm not really on the fence. I think the chance it was suicide is very very small, but you are free to have your own opinion and offer support for it. If it helps I'll refrain from commenting on that theory. I don't think posters are pressuring anyone to give up that opinion, they are just arguing for what they think. I'm not sure what else one can do?

 

[jstwondering]

Ok, my two cents.

Sorry for repeating, but did the whole suicide thing come up in the first place just because LE was pushed on the 'could it be a suicide' and said it's possible (that long LE presser)? Wondering since most comments on articles indicate this made LE look silly.

Snipped by me Regarding the above BBM question.
Stay with me for a second... you know on every case LE says so&so is "not a person of interest", and you're like WTH, of course they must be a person of interest by the mere fact that they are the victim's ________ (insert husband/dad/mother/enemy/known molester/evil twin/etc.)

From the second I heard about this case, which I'm pretty sure was before the presser, the reporters were talking about how crazy this case was because LE said that it was a probable suicide, mainly because she was reported to be found hanging by AS. They even tried to justify it (in regards to NZ being found naked and bound) by saying you'd be surprised at the weird suicides that they've seen.

So, in the spirit of my first paragraph, I think LE try to get away with answering as few questions as possible, and hold their cards as close to their vests as they can, regardless of what they are REALLY thinking. And hopefully, they investigate every possibility before crossing anything off the list. But in answer to your question that is bolded by me, I think LE weren't pressed to answer 'could it be a suicide', I think most people were thinking 'how could it be a suicide when she was naked and bound.'

IMHO

 

[Quester]

Someone could have held a gun or knife to her, she complied, and was tied up partially which would mean they didn't have to overcome her. Even if she was tied up there could have been some attempt on her part to escape or struggle (just thinking about possible evidence they took, picture and rug). Until they divulge the tox screen, I think it's possible some one drugged her - either directly or indirectly. Of course, that could look like it was part of a suicide also unless they can tell it was taken too early to then have tied herself up.

BBM - Yes, I agree.

IF murder, there are three hurdles that could require strength in the case of RN's death: 1) overpowering RN (by use of strength, threat of deadly force - as you suggested, or deadly force; 2) binding RN's wrists and ankles; and, 3) staging the hanging (hoisting her bound and conscious; bound and unconscious; or, bound, dead body over the balcony railing).

I believe that the rage I described in my previous post would have provided DS with enough strength to overcome all three of these hurdles.

MOO

On another note, could you please explain what you mean by indirectly drugging someone? TIA

 

[Paladine]

Someone could have held a gun or knife to her, she complied, and was tied up partially which would mean they didn't have to overcome her. Even if she was tied up there could have been some attempt on her part to escape or struggle (just thinking about possible evidence they took, picture and rug). Until they divulge the tox screen, I think it's possible some one drugged her - either directly or indirectly. Of course, that could look like it was part of a suicide also unless they can tell it was taken too early to then have tied herself up.

RBBM

I had that happen to me a loooooong time ago...someone held a knife to my throat and straddled me and told ME to take my clothes off...I did. By the Grace of God, imo, my friends busted into the room and saved me...it was a long time ago, and I'm okay...unlike many others we read about on this board...

So, this is possible, in my mind...but I admitted to my bias, straight up...

 

[Paladine]

As for the company, stock stuff...I think it may be relevant in a few ways...this isn't just any company. This company was founded by a main player in this saga, and he is the head of the ship, imo, and these contracts and court cases speak to me about character...and as others have mentioned, job stressors...was he a man on his way UP or way DOWN?

I do not think Big Pharma pulled a hit job...or that a competitor bumped his family off...I, too, believe the most obvious is usually the answer...now, evidence sure does help alot...and we haven't seen much at all...so, anything is possible, I guess. But is it probable is another question, in my mind...

Friends, we wait. Some more patiently than others...lol....

 

[time]

Good analysis on the strength. I hadn't thought about 'moving her body' - I had entertained the thought someone made her stand on something, then finished tying her. There is a problem of noise though. This makes me wonder if she was dropped from the balcony at all. Guess we don't know why Adam became aware she was out there, if she was actually hanging when he found her, and so on ... so I guess no point in going there as there are too many possibilities.

My comment about drugging - 'indirectly' could be adding something to a glass of wine she was offered or possibly offered sedatives given the situation or anything where Rebecca maybe wasn't aware she was being drugged but they weren't forced on her. I'm thinking access to drugs was no problem, but then again, it would have to look like a suicide move or I think it leads directly to x number of suspects anyway.

I don't think many here will support this theory, but I still think this could have been a professional hit - like someone said on the thuggy side or just staged to look like something else.

 

[time]

As for the company, stock stuff...I think it may be relevant in a few ways...this isn't just any company. This company was founded by a main player in this saga, and he is the head of the ship, imo, and these contracts and court cases speak to me about character...and as others have mentioned, job stressors...was he a man on his way UP or way DOWN?

I do not think Big Pharma pulled a hit job...or that a competitor bumped his family off...I, too, believe the most obvious is usually the answer...now, evidence sure does help alot...and we haven't seen much at all...so, anything is possible, I guess. But is it probable is another question, in my mind...

Friends, we wait. Some more patiently than others...lol....

I agree ... this is the same as my train of thought. I think all of the 'context' surrounding these folks is relevant including finances, power, other lifestyle variables, motive, stress levels, past actions and so on. For those entertaining the suicide theory, I think the same still holds.

I hate to open this up, but someone commented on a news article that it looked like there was insider trading on Aug 8th on the Medicis stock. I have no expertise to evaluate this.

Right now, I am still very bothered by why we don't have clear answers on who was there when Max had his accident. I don't understand as in any other news story/death, it just seems that kind of thing is not an issue. At least I have never seen it be. Where are the journalists getting their info from? I saw one article where posters in the comment section who both claim they are from Coronado where arguing about this. One says people saw JS's daughter go with Rebecca and the other claims up and down that she had already left (with her brother) for SC.

BTW... when I said hit job, I don't think it was Big Pharma, etc. I think it would be someone close.

 

[time]

RBBM

I had that happen to me a loooooong time ago...someone held a knife to my throat and straddled me and told ME to take my clothes off...I did. By the Grace of God, imo, my friends busted into the room and saved me...it was a long time ago, and I'm okay...unlike many others we read about on this board...

So, this is possible, in my mind...but I admitted to my bias, straight up...

Ugh, I have a bias also as twice someone put something in my drink. The second time I was really lucky that one person in the crowd rescued me. It was a setup I guess to be gang raped. I only had a swallow or two of some Scotch. When I started feeling woozy, I went to the bathroom and locked myself in. My legs gave out. I couldn't have helped myself.

 

[Paladine]

All that being said, I find myself less interested in posting on this thread as time goes by as I see most of my fellow posters who were inclined to see this as a suicide have stopped posting. I have sensed subtle, and sometimes not-so-subtle implications that if you don't think this was a murder, then your thinking is not quite right. Not from every poster here, but the majority.

Well, all I can say is I'm sorry if I personally contributed to your feeling this way, St. John...it could very well be a suicide, just because I, for one, don't subscribe to that particular theory, doesn't make me right. or you wrong...it just indicates, at this point, we differ. It's all good...I find many change position throughout a case, sometimes shifting slightly, sometimes, more so....I hope you stay and post...:hug:

 

[time]

I would venture to say that Defense101 was trying to convey that most likely, the corporation and its holdings are beyond the scope of SDSD's investigation.

Factor that support his view............

Wednesday evening, former District Attorney and current defense attorney Paul Pfingst showed up at the crime scene. Pfingst confirmed to News 8 that he had been hired to represent someone connected with this case, although he would not specify who his client is.

"I'm not Jonah's lawyer. I've never spoke with him. As far as I know he's not a suspect of any type," Pfingst said in a statement.



What does this mean?

In a criminal trial the prosecution must disclose to the defense, before the trial, all relevant evidence they have. The above statement indicates that Pfingst was gathering information based on that facet of the law. This means that the case is being presented. His statement was made on July 18

The probability of SDSD presenting a corporate espionage, extortion or SEC type investigation is extremely low.


Inobu

I think this is as good a theory as any given the confusing news reports... Pfingst was hired to represent JS's daughter?

 

[Quester]

Good analysis on the strength. I hadn't thought about 'moving her body' - I had entertained the thought someone made her stand on something, then finished tying her. There is a problem of noise though. This makes me wonder if she was dropped from the balcony at all. Guess we don't know why Adam became aware she was out there, if she was actually hanging when he found her, and so on ... so I guess no point in going there as there are too many possibilities.

My comment about drugging - 'indirectly' could be adding something to a glass of wine she was offered or possibly offered sedatives given the situation or anything where Rebecca maybe wasn't aware she was being drugged but they weren't forced on her. I'm thinking access to drugs was no problem, but then again, it would have to look like a suicide move or I think it leads directly to x number of suspects anyway.

I don't think many here will support this theory, but I still think this could have been a professional hit - like someone said on the thuggy side or just staged to look like something else.

Thanks for your response, Time! I understand now.

BBM - Reading this sentence of your post made me flash on an image:

What if that blue scarf was used as a gag which minimized any noise? And, when RN was found in the morning, AS removed it so that he could provide some kind of aid? And, that is the reason we see, in photos, RN with the blue scarf appearing around her neck?

And the blue scarf gag concept could also be the reason why there has been no reports, that we know of, of a woman screaming in distress?