Rebecca Zahau Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion #3

[Tortoise]

No. Not the knob either. Oh wait, perhaps shes a 'non shedder', just as AS is? [emoji1]

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Ah okay, so the argument is a non sequitur. I shall not waste another second dwelling on it!

 

[Tortoise]

Hi Tiffanie :wave:

The very same week Rebecca’s civil trial began, he chose not to attend a *scheduled* public debate. The heavily promoted 20/20 episode was to air the following day. Any chance he was concerned he might be asked questions about Rebecca’s case?

A cardboard cut-out :laughing:

 

[MyBelle]

Was Rebecca's DNA found at the spot where the door had been wiped?

Where RZ's DNA, and only RZ's DNA, was found--such as the knots on the rope--is the evidence heard by the jury. Obviously, if DNA wasn't found, it wasn't introduced as evidence.

 

[Tortoise]

Where RZ's DNA, and only RZ's DNA, was found--such as the knots on the rope--is the evidence heard by the jury. Obviously, if DNA wasn't found, it wasn't introduced as evidence.

So that's no then. :tyou:

 

[MyBelle]

No. Not the knob either. Oh wait, perhaps shes a 'non shedder', just as AS is? [emoji1]

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If she was a "non shedder" then how did RZ's DNA get on the knots, knife and the bedframe?

 

[Tortoise]

Wait, didn't Adam handle the knot on her wrists?

 

[MyBelle]

So that's no then. :tyou:

Yes, RZ's DNA was found on evidence directly tied to her death. Please don't twist my posts. Thanks.

 

[MyBelle]

Wait, didn't Adam handle the knot on her wrists?

He checked her pulse and cut her down. No testimony that he ever touched the knots, iirc.

 

[Tortoise]

Yes, RZ's DNA was found on evidence directly tied to her death. Please don't twist my posts. Thanks.

That's not twisting your post. You did not back up your argument that Adam wiped off his own DNA but left hers.

 

[Tortoise]

He checked her pulse and cut her down. No testimony that he ever touched the knots, iirc.

He loosened the wrist knot to get his hand underneath.

 

[MyBelle]

That's not twisting your post. You did not back up your argument that Adam wiped off his own DNA but not hers.

I did not say Adam wiped off his own DNA. Again, STOP TWISTING MY POSTS. Thanks.

 

[MyBelle]

He loosened the wrist knot to get his hand underneath.

That was not Adam's testimony.

 

[Tortoise]

I did not say Adam wiped off his own DNA. Again, STOP TWISTING MY POSTS. Thanks.

I specifically asked about the spot that was wiped.

 

[Lilibet]

We are debating whether this case is a suicide or murder. In discussing suicide, there is nothing inappropriate with looking at an individuals emotional state, stresses in her life, or personal history. Emotional hyperbole is just a “shut-up” manuver to make people who don’t agree go away. But WS exists to provide discussion...DISCUSSION...and debate.

The murder proponents are doing the same analysis with Adam. I don’t think they are doing it because they “delight” in trashing Adam’s character and spirit. I think they are attempting to make yr case for murder.

This is what I meant about the emotional undercurrent in this discussion. No, RZ and her life, mistakes and issues are not off bounds (Not unless Tricia decides to make her Board function this way)

RZ is not, by virtue of her death...now elevated to human perfection. AS has been convicted of nothing. He may be a victim too...of false accusation. Like the years of ugly posts here about a grieving Mother who lost her only child...were false accusation. I understand Tricia wants them identified and removed now. That is gracious and appropriate.

The Romano sisters were victims of false accusation. Mr Greer’s apology affirms that. Yet that was part of the discussion. No one was trying to “trash their character and spirit.”

WS is a discussion Board and Tricia and the Mods strive mightily to be fair, even when the majority might desire that no one be allowed to post unless they agree with majority opinion.

Unfortunately, you have chosen to come in at the end of a long series of posts (shown below) without realizing what had gone on before screecher’s frustrated comment. Jessica jumped on with a comment that was a red herring and derailed the point Betty was making. And no matter the reasonable explanations given, she escalated the diversion focusing on the fact that Rebecca didn’t answer Nina’s texts...as if this was a very irresponsible thing on Rebecca’s part. It was a rude and demeaning interruption of a train of thought, had nothing to do with suicide or murder and derailed the whole conversation to the point that screecher said it was impugning Rebecca’s character when I asked what difference it made whether Rebecca called Nina. This is certainly not the first time this has happened.

So that last post of screecher’s becomes the jumping off point for yet another lecture saying that “the majority might desire that no one be allowed to post unless they agree with majority opinion.” That is simply not true! What we object to is thread derailment by means of red herrings, mostly designed to impute bad motives to Rebecca and that have NOTHING to do with suicide or murder. No one here is saying she was perfect or had perfect emotions. But it would be a sign of good will for red herrings not to be thrown like bombs in the middle of a conversation, with a bit of subtle and irrelevant Rebecca bashing tacked on for good measure. Frankly, I feel that there is a deliberate campaign of conversation interruption going on by a few.

Note to mods: Apologies for my rant standing up for what I believe is right. If you feel the need to give me my first time out in 10,129 posts...go for it. I just hope you send a few pot stirrers with me.

:cheers:


THIS IS THE CONVERSATION THAT WAS TORPEDOED BY THE “WHY DIDN’T REBECCA ANSWER NINA’S CALL?” RED HERRING. BETTY MADE A GOOD POINT, BUT AWAY IT WENT.

Yes, it doesn't make sense that RZ would ignore the phone call from Jonah when there was an ongoing family medical crisis. She would have answered the call and, if she missed it, she would have returned the call.

I agree with Keith Greer that she was deceased by the time Jonah placed his call. JMO, he may have known at that time she was deceased and his call and message were intended to establish a motive for suicide.

Agree, the message painted on the door in third person and the binding of her feet were just 2 examples where the killer went overboard and raised suspicion on her true cause of death.

She ignored the call from Nina, when there was an ongoing family medical crisis, did she not?

RZ may have been busy or indisposed at that hour. Nina's visit took place shortly before it's believed Adam began attacking her.

Rebecca was texting with Mary at the time Nina was there, a little before 10 pm. She would have heard Nina’s call and seen Nina’s texts that she was sending. She purposely ignored her. Why would she ignore Nina when Max was in the ICU?

How in the world would anyone know that information? Rebecca was probably unconscious at that point IMO.

Hi Lilibet, I do not assume the same about the maker of the statement. The truth is that Rebecca's phone records clearly show that text from NR coming in to her phone at 10:41, an hour after she stopped texting her sister. NR has consistently stated she sent it at 9:41, but doesn't matter, it *registered on RZs phone* as coming in an hour after she stopped texting her sister. There are links to the entirety of RZs phone records, but I am not going to track them down. Anyone who does will find that is the case. These things were not occurring simultaneously.

Because Nina wasn't at the hospital and Jonah was. RZ would have been communicating with him if there were any developments. She had already spoken for quite a while with Nina earlier in the day when she picked her up at the airport. RZ was engaged in a conversation with her sister, giving her updates.

Most likely, once she finished texting with her sister, she went to take a shower and get clothes ready for herself and JS for the next day. Based on evidence & blood patterns, Keith Greer thinks RZ took her shower. Put on the towel and left the bathroom to go into the master bedroom. Something caused her to go to the bedroom door and, based on blood patterns on the carpeting, she stood there for some time talking to someone (probably Adam, he was the only other person on the property). At that point, RZ was forced down the hallway to the back bedroom. She struggled again at the door to that room where her towel was pulled off. More blood stains were found on the carpeting there in the hallway where the towel dropped. Farther into the balcony bedroom, more blood was found on the carpeting, indicated she was laying there, nude for a while, probably when she was tied up.


Greer estimates she could have been killed by 11:30 pm

Source: Tricia's podcast with Keith Greer just before the wrongful death trial began

]

It was confirmed through Nina’s phone records and the accounts of the other people staying at Dinas that that phone call happened at 9:41, not 10:41.



http://www.cbs8.com/story/15982091/exclusive-max-shacknais-aunt-talks-about-coronado-mansion-deaths



Here are the calls and texts on Rebecca’s phone bill that show she was there when Nina sent a text at 9:41.

BBM

I’m simply trying to extend to you and model the same courtesy that I hope everyone can extend to all posters. Continually demanding links is unnecessary if we do that.


BBM

Thanks Verboten. I appreciate that information. As I said above, I hope assuming people are being truthful will set an example and end the constant cries of “link”! Perhaps I’m naive though.

I have received texts several hours after they were sent.

I've always thought his phone call to her was for the purpose to forewarn her and tell her to be wary.

This is Rebecca’s bill and shows she also sent texts during that time.

Ignoring a call from Nina, the twin sister of DS, who was wanting to grill her for a more detailed explanation and ignoring a call from her BF / lover are hardly the same thing. In fact they’re opposite and can’t possibly be viewed as a comparison IMO.

Nina wasn’t a source of information about Max’’s current condition, she had no reason to inform R if anything. In contrast she was seeking information from R about what happened that could possibly explain how Max really fell. N wanted a blow by blow detailed explanation.

Agreed. I can’t imagine that Rebecca really wanted to have a conversation with Nina at that point. She must have been exhausted. I’ve certainly refused to answer non-essential calls or even calls from dear friends who are long-winded when I don’t feel like talking. What difference does it make that Rebecca didn’t answer Nina? It’s not evidence of suicide.

It's an impungement upon RZ's character, that's why.

In other words, a 'trashing' of RZ's character, spirit.

Some delight in doing so.



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[Pi2016]

I did find a link that supports the Dr. telling the parents that Max may have been suffocated. A search warrant was issued after Dr. Peterson's suspicions were reported to police two days prior to RZ's hanging.

In a follow-up investigation, Dr. Brad Peterson said after four days of medical testing, they could not determine the cause of a cardiac arrest suffered by Maxfield Shacknai.

The search warrant goes on to say "Dr. Peterson did not feel the visible injuries were consistent with the cardiac arrest and brain swelling experienced by Shacknai. Dr. Peterson expressed concerns made based on the above factors, suffocation may have occurred prior to Shacknai's fall. Maxfield later died."

Search warrants also asked for belts, ropes, clothing, bedding, plastic bags, electrical cords, as well as other items capable of being used for strangulation or suffocation as part of the investigation into Max's fall.

Two days later, Rebecca Zahau was found dead at the same home where Maxfield Shacknai fell. The medical examiner has determined that she committed suicide.

http://www.azfamily.com/story/15527...i-suffocated-before-fall?clienttype=printable

Does anybody think that this info did not make it's way to Jonah Shacknai?

 

[Harmony 2]

mod note: Please do not personalize posts. With closing arguments on Monday I would hate to see members on time out and not being able to weigh in.

 

[minorone]

Does anyone have the link showing only 1 very small partial print of Rebecca’s foot when AS could have struggled trying to get her over the balcony railing? I was flabbergasted looking at those photos. I’ll try to find it for you Jessica.

http://www.drmauricegodwin.com/shoeprintanalysis.html

There are only right foot toe prints, but none from her left foot on the balcony. The police believed the toe prints to be Rebecca's as they looked the right size.

Dr. Godwin did a good schematic and analysis.

 

[screecher]

If she was a "non shedder" then how did RZ's DNA get on the knots, knife and the bedframe?

Jeez, your right!!! [emoji3]

Wait. She absolutely shedded on that darn pesky steak knife handle she was horrifically RAPED with right? But no shedding or prints on the blade? Hmmm.

But not on the paint tube, brush, or door knob going into that hideous hanging room. Or the balcony door and it's knob.

What about the light switch???

room or door knob on balcony door?

Only explanation must be she sheds when she wants and doesn't when doesn't want to ???

"the girl" must have out of this special powers !!!!


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[Brit]

just realized this- In her depo DS claimed JS gave Asian honor as a reason for suicide. He denied saying this during his testimony. But according to this article he also said something similar to investigators. Was Greer able to address this in court during cross exam? Or were these the investigators that the defense decided not to call along with the ME?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.to...6/shaknai-deaths-mystery-coronado-california/

Jonah and Dina were at Max’s side when Adam called. Jonah left the room to take the call. When he returned, Dina says, he told her that Rebecca had killed herself, and then he pantomimed stabbing himself in the stomach. “Why?” Dina recalls asking. “Asian honor,” Jonah said.

When investigators from the San Diego County Sheriff ’s Department came to interview Jonah at the hospital that afternoon, he said, “She comes from a true Asian background... they just look at things differently in terms of responsibility.”

 

[Lilibet]

mod note: Please do not personalize posts. With closing arguments on Monday I would hate to see members on time out and not being able to weigh in.

Oh all right, Harmony. I’ll be good. :truce: :sorry: eace: