Related Issues and Food for Thought

[SnooperDuper]

It also helps to avoid a homicide investigation when there are no known friends or relatives who question why an animal activist and overall humble man would possess a gun and shoot himself in the head with it.

Well not so fast: the kind of activist WM was involved in was a real cowboy, and he had guns (to use on people)

Then again there may have been questions if anyone other than his son and his ex wife knew the truth about how he died. If WM had a sibling or any other close relative to speak on his behalf, I think that investigation would have gone a little differently. I'm sure the same evidence (and perhaps more) was there at the time of WM's death, there was just no one concerned enough to pressure LE to look for it. More likely there was someone there weaving a tale of depression and steering the investigation towards suicide.

I also understand that while the TPS may have closed the investigation, the coroner's office had not. So at least some official office was aware that something didn't seem right about that "suicide". It's still a problem that it was so easily disregarded by TPS based on their questioning of the victim's sole heir and that the coroner's office wasn't pressing for a thorough investigation though IMO.

Then again, perhaps some electronic or witness evidence came after the investigation was closed and someone thought they had gotten away with murder?

MOO

Well using a photo of yourself with a bloody eye as your avatar in gaming is making light of a very disturbing situation. After finding your father dead with a blown out eye, who would ever want to remind themselves of that sight? DM?

I think part of DM's problem is his demographic: he's young enough to be deeply interested in using technology and wealthy enough to afford devices on the cutting edge. These things do come with a price though: your privacy. They keep a years-persistent log of whenever you're active on them and where you happen to be, and in the case of sms even what you say.

Some of the new technologies out there include mind-boggling breaches of privacy in order to provide a technological advance, e.g., these Samsung Smart TV's by design record what people are saying in the room and export that to a third party company that converts it to text...that Samsung has the right to save and analyse.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102407345
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-31296188

Every time there is a new technology like this you wonder how long it takes for LE to tap into it. The Craigslist Killer case was very interesting at the time because it used a very new form of evidence, the GPS data from the Blackberry PM used. All this data is being collected by companies for research or analysis, but once LE discovers that the info is being collected, they can get a warrant and request it from the company. How long can companies keep your information? Aw, sheesh, think of how many times you've been asked to read a Privacy Policy and hammered I Agree blindly. If you want to keep your information out of the hands of LE, what you have to do is decline all of those Privacy Policies and refuse to use those companies' products and services. Once you agree to be logged by a company you are in turn agreeing with that company's policies towards cooperating with LE. Make an account on Facebook and you'll know the whole data package is going to end up in the hands of LE if it comes to that.

Another thing is unlike your average Subway worker, http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...ebrates-cops-death-facebook-article-1.2217230 DM's employer didn't care what the heck he was posting online, be it *advertiser censored* shoots or gory eyeballs. There was no holding back for DM online, no force to restrain him except himself.

 

[Alethea Dice]

It can easily happen? Only if you follow step 1: move to the USA

At 5:20 in that video, "The Heart of the Problem" is revealed to be the complexity of the law in the US.

Surely the complexity of the law in the US is not a Canadian problem.

The biggest difference in Canada IMO is that LE does not have to stop interrogating you when you retain your right to remain silent. I would think that would only increase your chances of incriminating yourself, when the questioning goes on and on and on with no regard to your right to silence.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2007/11/02/right_to_remain_silent_not_a_given_court_says.html

JMO

 

[swedie]

Well not so fast: the kind of activist WM was involved in was a real cowboy, and he had guns (to use on people)



Well using a photo of yourself with a bloody eye as your avatar in gaming is making light of a very disturbing situation. After finding your father dead with a blown out eye, who would ever want to remind themselves of that sight? DM?

I think part of DM's problem is his demographic: he's young enough to be deeply interested in using technology and wealthy enough to afford devices on the cutting edge. These things do come with a price though: your privacy. They keep a years-persistent log of whenever you're active on them and where you happen to be, and in the case of sms even what you say.

Some of the new technologies out there include mind-boggling breaches of privacy in order to provide a technological advance, e.g., these Samsung Smart TV's by design record what people are saying in the room and export that to a third party company that converts it to text...that Samsung has the right to save and analyse.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102407345
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-31296188

Every time there is a new technology like this you wonder how long it takes for LE to tap into it. The Craigslist Killer case was very interesting at the time because it used a very new form of evidence, the GPS data from the Blackberry PM used. All this data is being collected by companies for research or analysis, but once LE discovers that the info is being collected, they can get a warrant and request it from the company. How long can companies keep your information? Aw, sheesh, think of how many times you've been asked to read a Privacy Policy and hammered I Agree blindly. If you want to keep your information out of the hands of LE, what you have to do is decline all of those Privacy Policies and refuse to use those companies' products and services. Once you agree to be logged by a company you are in turn agreeing with that company's policies towards cooperating with LE. Make an account on Facebook and you'll know the whole data package is going to end up in the hands of LE if it comes to that.

Another thing is unlike your average Subway worker, http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...ebrates-cops-death-facebook-article-1.2217230 DM's employer didn't care what the heck he was posting online, be it *advertiser censored* shoots or gory eyeballs. There was no holding back for DM online, no force to restrain him except himself.

So Snooper to simplify it and as an example, if SB decided to press charges for defamation against people who create say fb groups using fake names and then post nasty, untruths and rumours about her and/or Tim, LE can obtain that information to provide as evidence correct? Interesting how some people are not too bright thinking by using a fake name to create an account hides their true identity. They believe they can say whatever they want and are untouchable and invincible. LE can trace the culprit's true identity through their fake account obtaining their IP address correct? IIRC TM, Tori's mother threatened to sue for libel against certain people who were posting lies about her on a fb group. I wonder if she ever did, maybe it's still being worked on by her lawyer. MOO.

 

[swedie]

The biggest difference in Canada IMO is that LE does not have to stop interrogating you when you retain your right to remain silent. I would think that would only increase your chances of incriminating yourself, when the questioning goes on and on and on with no regard to your right to silence.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2007/11/02/right_to_remain_silent_not_a_given_court_says.html

JMO

And that is why LE continue questioning suspects. Many time they can break the person and the truth eventually comes out, just like in RW's case. That right is exactly as stated: you have a right to remain silent. LE can talk all they want but the accused doesn't have to answer anything. Fair game IMO. Typical saying, when you have nothing to hide, you hide nothing.

 

[Alethea Dice]

It also helps to avoid a homicide investigation when there are no known friends or relatives who question why an animal activist and overall humble man would possess a gun and shoot himself in the head with it. Then again there may have been questions if anyone other than his son and his ex wife knew the truth about how he died. If WM had a sibling or any other close relative to speak on his behalf, I think that investigation would have gone a little differently. I'm sure the same evidence (and perhaps more) was there at the time of WM's death, there was just no one concerned enough to pressure LE to look for it. More likely there was someone there weaving a tale of depression and steering the investigation towards suicide.

I also understand that while the TPS may have closed the investigation, the coroner's office had not. So at least some official office was aware that something didn't seem right about that "suicide". It's still a problem that it was so easily disregarded by TPS based on their questioning of the victim's sole heir and that the coroner's office wasn't pressing for a thorough investigation though IMO.

Then again, perhaps some electronic or witness evidence came after the investigation was closed and someone thought they had gotten away with murder?

MOO

BBM - You are saying MB knew the truth about how WM died? Has she been charged then? Do you have a link?

Honestly, speaking from experience, it makes no difference how strongly the family feels that a death is suspicious. If LE deems it is a suicide, that's where it ends. However, that being said, I find it even more discouraging to think that you are correct in that LE will only look for evidence of foul play in a suspected suicide if they are pressured into it by family or friends. How easy it would be to get away with murder if that were truly the case.

The coroner's office would not confirm whether the case had been closed and reopened or whether it had never been closed.

The coroner’s office did not clarify if the case had been concluded and then reopened or what impact the cremation would have on an ongoing investigation.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/05/17/tim_bosma_ancaster_man_was_killed_inside_truck_source_says.html

Originally viewed as a suicide and, although his body was cremated, Wayne’s death is still “an ongoing investigation,” said Dorothy Zwolakowski, a strategic advisor for the Ontario Coroner’s Office.

She could not say whether the case was reopened because of recent events or had never been closed.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/dellen-millard-suspect-in-tim-bosmas-death-was-always-a-little-different-classmate-says

JMO

 

[Sillybilly]

The coroner's office would not confirm whether the case had been closed and reopened or whether it had never been closed.

<rsbm>

I note in the linked articles they used the word "still" on a couple of occasions, but I suspect the coroner's office did not confirm either way so as not to influence proceedings.

 

[Alethea Dice]

<rsbm>

I note in the linked articles they used the word "still" on a couple of occasions, but I suspect the coroner's office did not confirm either way so as not to influence proceedings.

Yes, they did. And technically, if it was closed at one time and re-opened, it's still the same investigation continuing now. So yes, it's still an ongoing investigation regardless. Two different reporters asked two different employees of the coroner's office, and neither would confirm if it had been re-opened or had never been closed. I'm sure they did have their reasons for not confirming, but we still cannot say, as was suggested, that "while the TPS may have closed the investigation, the coroner's office had not" and that "at least some official office was aware that something didn't seem right".

JMO

 

[hopingforjustice]

BBM - You are saying MB knew the truth about how WM died? Has she been charged then? Do you have a link?

Honestly, speaking from experience, it makes no difference how strongly the family feels that a death is suspicious. If LE deems it is a suicide, that's where it ends. However, that being said, I find it even more discouraging to think that you are correct in that LE will only look for evidence of foul play in a suspected suicide if they are pressured into it by family or friends. How easy it would be to get away with murder if that were truly the case.

The coroner's office would not confirm whether the case had been closed and reopened or whether it had never been closed.



http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/05/17/tim_bosma_ancaster_man_was_killed_inside_truck_source_says.html



http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/dellen-millard-suspect-in-tim-bosmas-death-was-always-a-little-different-classmate-says

JMO

BBM

I personally do not think she knew, but even if she did I don't believe it is a chargeable offense for her to not speak up.

(many months ago I posted this as a general question in this forum and was told by many helpful members that knowing of a crime and its perpetrator and not reporting it is not illegal--it only became illegal if you in some way assisted in the crime or acting to cover it up)

 

[Alethea Dice]

And that is why LE continue questioning suspects. Many time they can break the person and the truth eventually comes out, just like in RW's case. That right is exactly as stated: you have a right to remain silent. LE can talk all they want but the accused doesn't have to answer anything. Fair game IMO. Typical saying, when you have nothing to hide, you hide nothing.

It can also lead to false confessions, such as what happened with these seven people.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/famed-detectives-interrogation-techniques-derail-murder-case

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/youre-guilty-now-confess-false-admissions-put-polices-favourite-interrogation-tactic-under-scrutiny

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/widely-used-police-interrogation-technique-can-result-in-false-confession-disclosure-1.389125

"If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." The problem with that is that it assumes that you have never, ever done anything that could ever be construed as suspicious or controversial by anyone at all, and that the people who are asking or looking for information about you have only pure motives and intentions. Pieces of information don't always mean the same thing to all people. It all depends on their perspective how they interpret those pieces of information.

By the same token but on a different level, "if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear", no one should be concerned at all about all those tracking devices on their phones and computers or how often the government or LE is looking at your personal and private information. What's important about privacy if you have nothing to hide?

JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

BBM

I personally do not think she knew, but even if she did I don't believe it is a chargeable offense for her to not speak up.

(many months ago I posted this as a general question in this forum and was told by many helpful members that knowing of a crime and its perpetrator and not reporting it is not illegal--it only became illegal if you in some way assisted in the crime or acting to cover it up)

I don't think she did either. But, according to AB, she was there at the time. So if she knew and was there, I guess it would follow that she would have helped to cover it up at the least. I personally don't think it's right to accuse a family member of knowing about a crime when there has been absolutely nothing ever reported to indicate that in any way.

JMO

 

[hopingforjustice]

I don't think she did either. But, according to AB, she was there at the time. So if she knew and was there, I guess it would follow that she would have helped to cover it up at the least. I personally don't think it's right to accuse a family member of knowing about a crime when there has been absolutely nothing ever reported to indicate that in any way.

JMO

Hmm I will have to go back and read AB's post again. I recall her stating that she was there when the police arrived but nothing to insinuate she was there for the crime/and or act of death. Perhaps I recall incorrectly.

Edited to add post

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/201...tigation-into-the-death-of-wayne-millard.html

A source who was on the scene at the Millard family home the night police investigated the death, said that those present included Dellen Millard, his mother and Wayne&#8217;s ex-wife, Madeleine Burns, and Dellen Millard&#8217;s ex-fiancee, who cannot be named due to a publication ban. As far as I can tell, these are the only people police initially questioned about Wayne Millard&#8217;s death. They did not talk to anyone at the multi-million dollar business he had just launched nor do they appear to have spoken to others with whom Wayne Millard had regular, even daily, dealings.

After re-reading this..I still feel it was referring to her just being there when the police arrived on scene. But JMO

 

[Kamille]

BBM - You are saying MB knew the truth about how WM died? Has she been charged then? Do you have a link?

Honestly, speaking from experience, it makes no difference how strongly the family feels that a death is suspicious. If LE deems it is a suicide, that's where it ends. However, that being said, I find it even more discouraging to think that you are correct in that LE will only look for evidence of foul play in a suspected suicide if they are pressured into it by family or friends. How easy it would be to get away with murder if that were truly the case.

The coroner's office would not confirm whether the case had been closed and reopened or whether it had never been closed.



http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/05/17/tim_bosma_ancaster_man_was_killed_inside_truck_source_says.html



http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/dellen-millard-suspect-in-tim-bosmas-death-was-always-a-little-different-classmate-says

JMO

MB knew the truth that WM died from a gunshot wound to the head since she was apparently called to the scene that evening. Neither her nor DM apparently chose to tell that truth to any family, friends or business associates of WM. I did not indicate that she knew the truth about how he got the gunshot wound to the head. She knew and believed what she was told by her son obviously. So did LE apparently.

Police also reopened the death investigation of Wayne Millard following his son’s arrest. The coroner’s office has never closed the investigation.

http://t.thestar.com/#/article/news...toronto_police_search_farm_for_third_day.html

I guess it just depends what story you read in MSM regarding the coroner. Same news media, 4 months apart.

MOO

 

[Alethea Dice]

Hmm I will have to go back and read AB's post again. I recall her stating that she was there when the police arrived but nothing to insinuate she was there for the crime/and or act of death. Perhaps I recall incorrectly.

Edited to add post

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/201...tigation-into-the-death-of-wayne-millard.html

A source who was on the scene at the Millard family home the night police investigated the death, said that those present included Dellen Millard, his mother and Wayne&#8217;s ex-wife, Madeleine Burns, and Dellen Millard&#8217;s ex-fiancee, who cannot be named due to a publication ban. As far as I can tell, these are the only people police initially questioned about Wayne Millard&#8217;s death. They did not talk to anyone at the multi-million dollar business he had just launched nor do they appear to have spoken to others with whom Wayne Millard had regular, even daily, dealings.

After re-reading this..I still feel it was referring to her just being there when the police arrived on scene. But JMO

You don't have to be at the scene during the act to help cover it up. But it doesn't matter anyway because I doubt she knew and apparently I didn't read the post the way it was meant.

JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

MB knew the truth that WM died from a gunshot wound to the head since she was apparently called to the scene that evening. Neither her nor DM apparently chose to tell that truth to any family, friends or business associates of WM. I did not indicate that she knew the truth about how he got the gunshot wound to the head. She knew and believed what she was told by her son obviously. So did LE apparently.



http://t.thestar.com/#/article/news...toronto_police_search_farm_for_third_day.html

I guess it just depends what story you read in MSM regarding the coroner. Same news media, 4 months apart.

MOO

I apologize then if I misunderstood your post.

Then again there may have been questions if anyone other than his son and his ex wife knew the truth about how he died.

How do you know what was told to the close family and friends? All we know is what he told the people at the hangar, or "when people asked". Why would he tell business associates the details of the death?

Funny, that Star article was even written by one of the same reporters. I wonder if she asked the coroner's office again four months later and got a different answer, or if she forgot to check her notes.

JMO

 

[Arnie M]

.

Gee you guys ... when there is a death in the family it is pretty normal that relatives and close friends come over.... why suggest anything beyond that ?

.

 

[Kamille]

I apologize then if I misunderstood your post.



How do you know what was told to the close family and friends? All we know is what he told the people at the hangar, or "when people asked". Why would he tell business associates the details of the death?

Funny, that Star article was even written by one of the same reporters. I wonder if she asked the coroner's office again four months later and got a different answer, or if she forgot to check her notes.

JMO

Thank you. It appears you did misunderstand my post. I did say she knew the truth about how he died, not the truth about how he was killed.

Considering what AB wrote after interviewing people who knew WM, what people who were in daily contact with WM said when they found out the truth about the gunshot and the fact that WM's own aunt didn't appear to even hear of his death or his memorial, let alone how he died, until much later, I am assuming that the true cause of his death was not disclosed to anyone. If there is anything to indicate differently, I'm not aware of it.

MOO

 

[Sillybilly]

.

Gee you guys ... when there is a death in the family it is pretty normal that relatives and close friends come over.... why suggest anything beyond that ?

.

IMO, the curious thing is that DM and the ex-fiancé had split in the spring of 2011 but she was at the home at the time of the investigation into WM's death in November 2012. With her name being subject to the pub ban, have to wonder what she may have to contribute, and to which death investigation.

 

[Arnie M]

IMO, the curious thing is that DM and the ex-fiancé had split in the spring of 2011 but she was at the home at the time of the investigation into WM's death in November 2012. With her name being subject to the pub ban, have to wonder what she may have to contribute, and to which death investigation.

Interesting thought (what the ex-fiance may now contribute)

In a presumed suicide and it would be understandable if DM reached out for emotional support to his ex and of course his mom , and probably did that before anyone else was called.

Now I speculate he could have set it up to be with his ex when he came home so that "they discovered the deceased" and then also call his mom to come over

That way he would just be one of the three mourners and not have to be alone trying to explain anything to authorities.

I has been said before that if told by family members it was suicide , police will have that mindset before they even arrive.

.

 

[Arnie M]

IMO, the curious thing is that DM and the ex-fiancé had split in the spring of 2011 but she was at the home at the time of the investigation into WM's death in November 2012. With her name being subject to the pub ban, have to wonder what she may have to contribute, and to which death investigation.

Further to that ...... it will be telling if it turns out DM (out of the blue) called his Ex to be with him on that exact day.

Such things will likely be brought out in the trial. Can't wait !!

.

 

[swedie]

Perhaps DM wasn't the first one who came into WM's house after his death? Did DM kill his father and leave the house knowing someone was suppose to show up, knowing they would find WM dead? When they showed up did they find the door unlocked and walked in, maybe it was common for that person just to let them self into WM's house? Perhaps they had a key to let them self in? Did they then call DM and he came home? Was DM out with his ex and she returned to the house with him? Could DM and his ex and MB have been out together that night and DM invited them back to the house? I still wonder about the mystery woman WM's was supposedly engaged to. I guess there could be so many scenarios but only one truth. Surely the truth will come out eventually, either through trial or the charged will plead guilty and the details will come out through sentencing. MOO.

It really does have the appearance someone was hiding something by not sharing the alleged suicide information with those close to WM. I suspect on DM's part it was because he didn't want to raise anyone's suspicions for fear they may go to LE with questions and/or information revealing DM and WM had a rocky relationship. People have sympathy for suicide victims and their loved ones so it's hard to understand why anyone would lie to cover it up. People should not be embarrassed by other peoples actions. But that's JMO.

September 11, 2013
McLane would not say whether Millard was home on Nov. 29, 2012, when police were called to the Etobicoke house he shared with his father.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...toronto_police_search_farm_for_third_day.html

April 10, 2014
Police were called to the house that November night before 7 p.m. from within the neighbourhood block, according to an ambulance report obtained by the Star. But it is not clear who made the call. That information was censored from the report and the Star was denied access to police records in the case.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...osma_killing_charged_with_2_more_murders.html

June 8, 2014
A source who was on the scene at the Millard family home the night police investigated the death, said that those present included Dellen Millard, his mother and Wayne’s ex-wife, Madeleine Burns, and Dellen Millard’s ex-fiancee, who cannot be named due to a publication ban.

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/201...tigation-into-the-death-of-wayne-millard.html