Related Issues and Food for Thought

[Juballee]

What if we are shocked in another way, because the real story turns out to be nothing like the narrative people expected?

 

[SnooperDuper]

What if we are shocked in another way, because the real story turns out to be nothing like the narrative people expected?

Uh...CN had a bail hearing where they went over some of the facts of the case, and hundreds of people attended and paid witness...

If there was an unexpected narrative at that time, don't you think it would have hit the rumour mill?

 

[Juballee]

If it were really that shocking and horrific, I don't think the bail would have been granted for her, personally.

Isn't the whole point of the publication ban to prevent the rumour mill from tainting people's opinions before trial? I imagine that it works both ways.

 

[SnooperDuper]

If it were really that shocking and horrific, I don't think the bail would have been granted for her, personally.

I agree: I think she found herself in a situation where she knew something, but while she cut out LE she also cut out DM. (LE said right up to her arrest that she was not cooperative, and while MS faces breach of recognizance charges because of contact between MS and his gf, DM and CN apparently did not make the same mistake.)

Isn't the whole point of the publication ban to prevent the rumour mill from tainting people's opinions before trial? I imagine that it works both ways.

After CN's hearing there was no flurry of articles pondering is DM might be innocent. I think CN's hearing was an assurance that DM was involved, and that they have the right people.

 

[Tamarind]

I agree: I think she found herself in a situation where she knew something, but while she cut out LE she also cut out DM. (LE said right up to her arrest that she was not cooperative, and while MS faces breach of recognizance charges because of contact between MS and his gf, DM and CN apparently did not make the same mistake.)



After CN's hearing there was no flurry of articles pondering is DM might be innocent. I think CN's hearing was an assurance that DM was involved, and that they have the right people.

I cant quite follow that logic (jmo). The hearings so far would not have revealed the defenses side of the story IMO. Some things may have been touched on but the trial hasn't occurred yet so we still don't know much. As for the media, I think, true to form, they will be catering to the crowns position for the most part. Should the truth be that DM and or MS is innocent, I imagine they will sensationalize their reporting to reflect that outcome when the time comes. My own opinion.

 

[Alethea Dice]

If it were really that shocking and horrific, I don't think the bail would have been granted for her, personally.

Isn't the whole point of the publication ban to prevent the rumour mill from tainting people's opinions before trial? I imagine that it works both ways.

I agree. People would be "stunned" even if it wasn't what they were expecting. The writer made that comment in November of 2014. Although she attended all but the first morning of CN's bail hearing, I don't believe that she has attended all of the court hearings. Many of her entries include statements such as "the Hamilton Spectator reported". Regardless, the comment was made before these recent pre-trial hearings, so her opinion may have been based on either CN's bail hearing alone or things she has heard through the rumour mill that haven't been reported. I generally find publication bans work quite well here in Canada and not much gets out to the general public.

JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

I personally don't think CN's bail hearing would have been a big deal. The Crown would need to show reason why she should not receive bail. She isn't considered a danger to the public, she isn't likely to skip town (with her bracelet on), she has a surety and a place to live, she has no criminal record, and her involvement was only after the fact. The Crown would have had to lay out their case to show there was a murder, but some of the evidence and the Crown's strategy is all that would have been revealed.

JMO

 

[Arnie M]

.

Remember it is a publication ban
It is not a .... do-not-say-anything-to-anyone ban.

There is always the possibility that associates of the arrested people know a lot , and there is nothing stopping them from discussing it in a coffee shop with whomever they want

It would not be illegal to listen to those rumors or hearsay , but it would be illegal to publish them.

 

[Juballee]

Even places like this.

 

[Arnie M]

Even places like this.

Yes ...

 

[Sillybilly]

Even places like this.

It's not entirely clear to me what you mean, but if you are referring to violations of the PB, there have not been any posts here which have done so. If you or anyone else thinks there are violations, please alert on them immediately. Thanks.

 

[Arnie M]

It's not entirely clear to me what you mean, but if you are referring to violations of the PB, there have not been any posts here which have done so. If you or anyone else thinks there are violations, please alert on them immediately. Thanks.

Its not about that at all

 

[Tamarind]

.

Remember it is a publication ban
It is not a .... do-not-say-anything-to-anyone ban.

There is always the possibility that associates of the arrested people know a lot , and there is nothing stopping them from discussing it in a coffee shop with whomever they want

It would not be illegal to listen to those rumors or hearsay , but it would be illegal to publish them.

I think its about this (bold)... rumours can spread just by the power of suggestion. Placing a JMO or IMO or MOO after a rumour or potential rumour doesn't necessarily quell the germination of such rumours FWIW. Not saying it happens here but that, like much else, is subject to interpretation.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Rumour? I hear LE has no evidence

What makes opinion blow up into rumour?

This is a discussion site so it is a war of opinion vs. opinion, not fact vs. fact.

I think it's been shown that LE only shares the information that suits them, and even contradicts the truth if that what they need to do. (E.g., when DM was arrested, they announced that they were still looking for him, an unidentified man with an "Ambition" tattoo.) So we cannot turn to LE for facts or the truth.

Many people are suspicious of the media and suggest they are untruthful. Newspaper articles conflict in the details. So we cannot turn to the media for facts or the truth.

There is now no one close to the case posting here. There are no more verified insiders to provide facts or truth (that even then, others won't accept).

DM wrote to friends and family that he is not guilty of the charges against him. Should we believe him? (LOL it is too bad DM never wrote/contacted CN all that time...DM can tell people that weren't there that he's not guilty but what would he write someone who had firsthand experience showing that he was involved? Lies for friends and family but alternative reality for the gf...)

I wouldn't call them rumours but I think there are persistent ideas that hang around because they seem relevant. E.g., early on the chop shop suggested organized crime and DM's protestations of innocence suggested that he was a pawn controlled by powers greater than him. Now wouldn't that just explain everything.

However I suspect it is more along the lines of the CL case.

As a teen growing up in a small Canadian town, CL could hardly have been more typical, blending in as a likeable and occasionally rowdy jock.

From a well-to-do family known to many in Fort St. James, B.C., CL was the kind of no-trouble kid to make a parent proud.

Police say he murdered four women between 2009 and 2010, but to those who knew him, there was nothing to suggest a poisonous mind or a soul sick with murder.

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/10/19/accused-serial-killer-was-a-totally-typical-kid

 

[Tamarind]

Rumour? I hear LE has no evidence

I think we hear that their evidence has not stood the test of trial yet. :waiting:

What makes opinion blow up into rumour?

This is a discussion site so it is a war of opinion vs. opinion, not fact vs. fact.

Yes I am aware of opinion v opinion. Opinions are also known to be the origin of many rumours. Rumours are opinions that sprout legs with the help of others who perpetuate that same opinion rather than form another opinion of their own JMO

Like I said, I am speaking generally not pointing fingers.

I think it's been shown that LE only shares the information that suits them, and even contradicts the truth if that what they need to do. (E.g., when DM was arrested, they announced that they were still looking for him, an unidentified man with an "Ambition" tattoo.) So we cannot turn to LE for facts or the truth.

Yes I agree LE does only share what suits them and that it can contradict the truth. I think translated that means they will lie if they feel they need/want to. I also agree we can't look to LE for facts and truth. :waitasec:

Many people are suspicious of the media and suggest they are untruthful. Newspaper articles conflict in the details. So we cannot turn to the media for facts or the truth.

I agree with you we cannot turn to the media for facts and truth.

There is now no one close to the case posting here. There are no more verified insiders to provide facts or truth (that even then, others won't accept).

So basically we have nothing of substance to go on. People can only voice opinion. I agree. If an opinion gets repeated and touted as truth or backed up and given credence, it could soon become a rumour. I again am speaking generally and it is my opinion only.

DM wrote to friends and family that he is not guilty of the charges against him. Should we believe him? (LOL it is too bad DM never wrote/contacted CN all that time...DM can tell people that weren't there that he's not guilty but what would he write someone who had firsthand experience showing that he was involved? Lies for friends and family but alternative reality for the gf...)

We have no idea what CN knows, like you said, we have no information that can be relied on regarding her case.

I wouldn't call them rumours but I think there are persistent ideas that hang around because they seem relevant. E.g., early on the chop shop suggested organized crime and DM's protestations of innocence suggested that he was a pawn controlled by powers greater than him. Now wouldn't that just explain everything.

It may explain things for some people I guess. I would need a lot more to go on. JMO

 

[Arnie M]

I think its about this (bold)... rumours can spread just by the power of suggestion. Placing a JMO or IMO or MOO after a rumour or potential rumour doesn't necessarily quell the germination of such rumours FWIW. Not saying it happens here but that, like much else, is subject to interpretation.

My thinking was not about rumors or suggestions , more like "hints"

For example: one policeman said .... " what they did to TB would make your hair curl " (paraphrased)

So when a fairly knowledgeable reporter says ... " when everything comes out about the Millard story, people are going to be stunned ... I take it as a hint ... a hint that as bad as this murders already look .... it could be even worse than we now imagine.

And it adds to the mystery , we are all here because of the mystery surrounding this unusual case , we have long ago dealt with the shock of the killing itself.

 

[Tamarind]

My thinking was not about rumors or suggestions , more like "hints"

For example: one policeman said .... " what they did to TB would make your hair curl " (paraphrased)

So when a fairly knowledgeable reporter says ... " when everything comes out about the Millard story, people are going to be stunned ... I take it as a hint ... a hint that as bad as this murders already look .... it could be even worse than we now imagine.

And it adds to the mystery , we are all here because of the mystery surrounding this unusual case , we have long ago dealt with the shock of the killing itself.

That is definitely one theory Arnie, I also think it could possibly mean that things are not quite what people have begun to expect. The mystery is indeed what has many posting here together with the need for truth IMO.

 

[SnooperDuper]

My thinking was not about rumors or suggestions , more like "hints"

For example: one policeman said .... " what they did to TB would make your hair curl " (paraphrased)

So when a fairly knowledgeable reporter says ... " when everything comes out about the Millard story, people are going to be stunned ... I take it as a hint ... a hint that as bad as this murders already look .... it could be even worse than we now imagine.

And it adds to the mystery , we are all here because of the mystery surrounding this unusual case , we have long ago dealt with the shock of the killing itself.

I think simply people are going to be morally disgusted by DM's lack of respect for the lives of others. I think it is going to be a moral shock when people see how blatantly and coldly that he killed. IMO.

 

[Tamarind]

I think simply people are going to be morally disgusted by DM's lack of respect for the lives of others. I think it is going to be a moral shock when people see how blatantly and coldly that he killed. IMO.

There's you thinking that, and me thinking something completely different. I guess one or both of us will be in for a surprise.

 

[SnooperDuper]

There's you thinking that, and me thinking something completely different. I guess one or both of us will be in for a surprise.

I think the people that deny the reality of the situation, and all the evidence against DM to date, will naturally face the biggest surprise as reality crashes down on them and DM is convicted of all three murders.