Remains found confirmed as Jacob Wetterling/Suspect led LE to Remains #2

[Ottojr]

Present you evidence on a specific case.

This is where things get weird.

Heinrich admits to murdering an 11 year old boy!

Did it end there?

????

Based on research, probably not!

Now what?

 

[otto]

But they weren't similar or consistent with his shoes and tires. They were exact---because it was HIM. As far as pattern of wear on the shoes, it would have been the same. For example, if they found there was wear on the outside of the left heel, a year later there may be more wear to the outside of the left heel but the pattern wouldn't change to wear on the inside of the right heel. The pattern would be the same---just more pronounced.

According to the search warrant, the prints and tracks were not an exact match. I have never in my life heard that a shoe print was an exact match to someone's shoe unless the shoe and the print are examined at the same time. I have heard that the print is "consistent with" the shoe belonging to a suspect. "Consistent with" is the best that can ever be said.

If I'm mistaken, perhaps someone can provide a link to a criminal case where a shoe print at a crime scene was an "exact match" to a shoe.

 

[otto]

There have been plenty of convictions for crimes based on shoe prints or tire tracks. I'm asking you since you're the one claiming it's not enough.

Do you happen to recall one of those cases where a shoe print was an "exact match" to a shoe?

 

[Ray_of_hope]

I've listened to the same podcast!

The interviews of (or lack there of) the neighbors at the time is shocking. I'm not defending anyone.

Im not in a position to ***** about anything. Others have that privilege if they want. I'm not one of them.

LOL, this was in response to Otto thinking that the two boys I mentioned from the Podcast were the ones with JW on the night he was abducted.

 

[otto]

Well I completely disagree. It has already been stated previously that if a shoe or a tire is missing a piece of tread or worn in a certain area, that shoe or tire can be declared a perfect match

My point earlier and I'll say it again, what are the ODDS that a man who the police have been looking at, as a person who has an interest in young boys, would ALSO have the SAME shoes and TIRES, (two completely independent pieces of evidence) that are 'consistent with' two separate tracks that were left at the fresh crime scene where a young boy was abducted.

Not talking even a bank robbery here, but a young boy was abducted. I don't think I'm the only person thinking that maybe someone dropped the ball on that one.

I think we need a link to support the claim that criminal cases include evidence of a shoe print at a crime scene being an "exact match" to a shoe. I keep reading that it is possible, but there are no links.

The search warrant in this case does not state that the print was an exact match.

 

[IBsleuthin]

Heinrich admits to murdering an 11 year old boy!

Did it end there?

????

Based on research, probably not!

Now what?

It did NOT end there and there is a police report to prove it from 1991.

 

[otto]

I've heard experts on Forensic Files discussing that shoe prints with wear patterns and nicks, etc can be as identifiable as finger prints.

The problem with that is that every day new nicks are added to the soles of shoes, which is why the print and the shoe are never an exact match.

 

[otto]

The shoe, the tire, the show, the tire??

We know it was Heinrich!

We know his shoe, and his car.

We do now, but at the time of the crime, no conclusion could be drawn based on a shoe print and a tire track, and that is all the evidence they had.

 

[VermilionGirl]

Just listened to that podcast and it was outstanding. DH may have been stalking and harassing boys in that very same neighborhood leading up to Jacob's abduction and we never knew about it.

Yes! And if LE had done their job and paid attention to these boys, they could have made a call on the police scanner to other departments to watch for a small, boxy blue car-with a description of the driver. That could have been done within the first 10-20 minutes, if not sooner. My gosh, there were 3 cops in St. Joes, with not a lot of "police action". Something as simple as that could have been a game changer. Infuriating.

 

[otto]

The two boys mentioned in the MPR second podcast were neighbors of JW and had been stalked/harassed prior to JW's abduction. They both saw the man and the vehicle. It was reported to the police. Years later one of the boys managed to get a copy of both reports and he saw the details described were identical on each report. He spent years thinking that LE had not followed up because their descriptions of the person and the car hadn't matched. DH and his vehicle would have been a match.

It doesn't matter that someone could connect Heinrich with his own car, the problem was that no one knew what type of car was used during the abduction of Jacob.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

http://www.science.marshall.edu/murraye/Footprint Lab.html
" A shoeprint can be unique because of many variables: wear patterns can show how long it was worn and sometimes the walking pattern of the shoe's owner (pronated, pidgeon-toed). Some marks, cuts and scratches are unique to a particular shoe. Even a rock stuck in the treads of an athletic shoe can remain and leave a unique characteristic. The design of the sole is a class characteristic as is the size. However, some types of shoe are sold in limited quantities in certain sizes and markets. For shoeprints, forensic scientists lifting with electrostatic devices. Photography is the major technique used to record shoe prints and tracks. It can be enhanced with chemicals, and is often combined with casting for impressions. For additional information read the attached discussion from the Encycloperia of Forensic Science."
(snipped)
"Footprints and stride length can be used to estimate height of the person who left them.

A related topic was featured on a recent episode of CBS's NUMB3RS where they used a mathematical formula to estimate a person's height and weight according to footprint depth."

 

[Ray_of_hope]

The problem with that is that every day new nicks are added to the soles of shoes, which is why the print and the shoe are never an exact match.

Good point, unless it's close to the time of the crime.

 

[otto]

Present you evidence on a specific case.

This is where thing get weird.

It's rather normal to provide links to support factual claims around here. After reading several comments claiming that investigators can take a cast of a shoe print and make an "exact match" to a shoe, I am requesting a link. Given that the search warrant does not state that the shoe and tire casts were an "exact match" to those of Heinrich, I think it's fair to request a link.

So ... I would like to learn something new ... and I have requested a link to support the claim.
Nothing weird happening, just a normal request to ensure that we don't go off on a tangent based on a false premise.

 

[Rocco]

It should be pointed out that most people who are abused as children don't grow up to be abusers at all.

Any source for that statement? Just curious because I've never heard anyone state that.

 

[otto]

LOL, this was in response to Otto thinking that the two boys I mentioned from the Podcast were the ones with JW on the night he was abducted.

I responded to this comment:

"In The Dark Podcast 2: Two boys had seen and both stated they could ID the perp (in separate interviews) that had watched and tried to grab one of them. Both victim reports to LE showed that the car and perp ID were the same. One of the boys resembled and lived in the same neighborhood as Jacob and the incident with him happened prior to Jacob's kidnapping. The car they described fit the description of the one that DH had abducted Jacob in."

Who described the car "that DH abducted Jacob in"?

 

[Ray_of_hope]

It doesn't matter that someone could connect Heinrich with his own car, the problem was that no one knew what type of car was used during the abduction of Jacob.

This would have been a known stalker/harasser from the same neighborhood (with a history) that fit the physical description of the abductor of JW. He would have had to have been ruled out. But also, after comparing the tire and foot prints to DH and his car, there would have been even more information to make a case against DH.

 

[otto]

http://www.science.marshall.edu/murraye/Footprint Lab.html
" A shoeprint can be unique because of many variables: wear patterns can show how long it was worn and sometimes the walking pattern of the shoe's owner (pronated, pidgeon-toed). Some marks, cuts and scratches are unique to a particular shoe. Even a rock stuck in the treads of an athletic shoe can remain and leave a unique characteristic. The design of the sole is a class characteristic as is the size. However, some types of shoe are sold in limited quantities in certain sizes and markets. For shoeprints, forensic scientists lifting with electrostatic devices. Photography is the major technique used to record shoe prints and tracks. It can be enhanced with chemicals, and is often combined with casting for impressions. For additional information read the attached discussion from the Encycloperia of Forensic Science."
(snipped)
"Footprints and stride length can be used to estimate height of the person who left them.

A related topic was featured on a recent episode of CBS's NUMB3RS where they used a mathematical formula to estimate a person's height and weight according to footprint depth."

A lot can be learned with a shoe print, but a shoe print is never an "exact match" to a shoe. In court, a shoe print is described as similar to, or consistent with, a shoe. The prints found near the abduction site resulted in Heinrich being questioned, but he could not be charged with that evidence.

 

[IBsleuthin]

According to the search warrant, the prints and tracks were not an exact match. I have never in my life heard that a shoe print was an exact match to someone's shoe unless the shoe and the print are examined at the same time. I have heard that the print is "consistent with" the shoe belonging to a suspect. "Consistent with" is the best that can ever be said.

If I'm mistaken, perhaps someone can provide a link to a criminal case where a shoe print at a crime scene was an "exact match" to a shoe.

Happy to oblige.

http://lasvegassun.com/news/2010/feb/01/forehead-shoeprint-leads-felons-arrest-office-buil/

Then there's this:

http://www.forensicscienceresources.com/shoes.htm

But THIS?? This right here is the best article so far:

http://crimefeed.com/2015/11/18392/


And I quote: "DJ: There was a murder of a young woman. The suspect had stepped on the white blouse that the victim was wearing and had left a shoe print. I was able to get shoes from the suspect and the lab was able to match it, exactly to the print on the shirt. That never happens. They can often say it’s similar or consistent with a shoe, but the lab told me, ‘this is like a fingerprint. It’s an exact match.’ That’s the only time that ever happened."

It's rare but it DOES happen.

 

[Dum-Dum Sucker]

Just listened to that podcast and it was outstanding. DH may have been stalking and harassing boys in that very same neighborhood leading up to Jacob's abduction and we never knew about it.

I agree, Sigrun, the podcast is outstanding.

Patty tells that in the wee hours of the abduction she heard a report on the radio about Jacob. The report said that a boy was "lost in the woods." omg. Patty called the station to correct them. Seems they got that pitiful misinformation from the sheriff.

 

[VermilionGirl]

It doesn't matter that someone could connect Heinrich with his own car, the problem was that no one knew what type of car was used during the abduction of Jacob.

Please...All an officer would have to say is "keep your eye out for a blah, blah car; with a blah, blah looking driver. We had a report a couple months ago of a man stalking some kids around the same area. Could be nothing, but something to watch for." 10-4