Retrial for Sentencing of Jodi Arias - 11/3/14 Hearing - Part 2

[Hatfield]

It is frustrating, and I'm torn as to what would be the more just result, DP or LWOP, given the possible ultimate end result of each. I take comfort in the fact that it appears now likely that she will at least spend the rest of her life in prison, whether she gets to eventually socialize or lives in isolation, she has at some point to compare her life to what it could have been had she not decided to commit her horrific act, and hopefully that will have all the weight it should for her to live with.

Good point. I think she is just now beginning to realize she may not get out anytime soon.

For me personally, I thought of 1 other reason I maybe favoring the DP. The title and stigma alone if she gets "Sentenced to Death". I think just the sheer stigma of that is coming into play for me, regardless of whether it happens or not.

I think a lot of it for me falls back into the whole principle of the thing, and her getting the sentence she deserves. If she would have showed any remorse, I most likely would not feel the way I do about her and the sentence I think she deserves.
She continually shows to me that she is not sorry for what she has done to him.

 

[Steve44]

Good point. I think she is just now beginning to realize she may not get out anytime soon.

For me personally, I thought of 1 other reason I maybe favoring the DP. The title and stigma alone if she gets "Sentenced to Death". I think just the sheer stigma of that is coming into play for me, regardless of whether it happens or not.

I think a lot of it for me falls back into the whole principle of the thing, and her getting the sentence she deserves. If she would have showed any remorse, I most likely would not feel the way I do about her and the sentence I think she deserves.
She continually shows to me that she is not sorry for what she has done to him.

I don't think she's sorry in the least for the act itself, only for getting caught, and convicted. As for what you said about her getting the DP, true enough as far as it goes, but it will only allow her to cry 'poooor meee!!! with more conviction and to garner more sympathy from those misguided enough to be so inclined, so, I don't know...

 

[bznbear]

It seems like they are trying everything sleazy to either get the DP off the table or a mistrial.

Also, she is not getting retried here! She already has been convicted of 1st Degree Murder. Nothing new should come out during this phase to change mitigating factors unless its more lies, lies, lies.

And, you're right josie, they've have plenty of time to prepare, but it seems like Jodi and Nurmi can't agree.

Speaking of Nurmi, isn't he the that said "I cant stand Ms. Arias 9 out of 10 days". He, himself has made out Jodi to be a monster, and he is supposed to be defending her?!

ITA Elle, everything sleazy indeed for those purposes.

This is how I see it: KN stands, his back to a precipice, heels over the edge scuttling stones down the dark jagged walls. Above him, the vortex of madness, which is JA, roars in rage, rancor and demand. KN raises his fist and shakes it, yelling at the court, at JM, at the COA, at the media, for making him do these awful things. But, what he fails to admit is he took those giant strides that put him on that precarious and hateful edge.

She is a monster, and he is defending her in a monstrous way, imho.

 

[Hatfield]

I don't think she's sorry in the least for the act itself, only for getting caught, and convicted. As for what you said about her getting the DP, true enough as far as it goes, but it will only allow her to cry 'poooor meee!!! with more conviction and to garner more sympathy from those misguided enough to be so inclined, so, I don't know...

So true about how a DP sentence will allow her to gain more sympathy from her minions, as well as probably getting even more sympathizers that will come out of the woodwork.

It is such an interesting topic about the advantages and disadvantages, and I have learned so much with this case.

I believe Katie and others have brought up Victims rights and that much more can be done along those lines. It will be nice to see changes in the future that help the victim and their families more.

Until more is done or changes are made, there probably is no right way or wrong way to think about things.

I am glad Travis family has been working closely with Juan. It sounds to me that Juan is trying to do what their family wants, and that is good enough for me to side with what they desire. I am pretty sure that Travis familiy has been educated on things to come, and if they still choose to pursue the DP, I am fine with their decision.

 

[Steve44]

ITA Elle, everything sleazy indeed for those purposes.

This is how I see it: KN stands, his back to a precipice, heels over the edge scuttling stones down the dark jagged walls. Above him, the vortex of madness, which is JA, roars in rage, rancor and demand. KN raises his fist and shakes it, yelling at the court, at JM, at the COA, at the media, for making him do these awful things. But, what he fails to admit is he took those giant strides that put him on that precarious and hateful edge.

She is a monster, and he is defending her in a monstrous way, imho.

I don't think the guy is such a victim of circumstance as you make him out to be, either in the public's or his own mind. Look at what he chose to do with his law degree in his private practice. Him saying he didn't like her was strategy, not necessarily truth, as easy as it is to believe. Every step he's taken has been taken consciously and deliberately, with one end in mind.

 

[ElleElle]

Here's Det. Flores and Jodi phone interviews.

She says "his fists" were the only weapons she knew of. Oh, so no gun hidden in the closet?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmXxck9IiFQ

Should have said "gun" hidden in closet. :blush:

 

[bznbear]

I don't think the guy is such a victim of circumstance as you make him out to be, either in the public's or his own mind. Look at what he chose to do with his law degree in his private practice. Him saying he didn't like her was strategy, not necessarily truth, as easy as it is to believe. Every step he's taken has been taken consciously and deliberately, with one end in mind.

Yes, we agree, and, sorry if unclear. That's what I was inferring when I wrote he's failed to admit he took those strides. He's most definitely the maker of his current bed, though he would have others believe differently, imo.

 

[Steve44]

The part that floored me: The only danger Travis was in from me was "spiritual endangerment".

Thank goodness Juan transformed her "I'm innocent."
to "I'm as innocent as a lie."

 

[bsk]

RR, I feel like I remember in Juans closing, he stated she had left nothing behind, and referenced her fog. For example, if she was in such a fog, then how come she had the mind to retrive all of her belongings.
I'm not 100% certain though.

BBM - Apparently nothing other than a bloody palm print.

 

[katiecoolady]

Hello Katie,

I must say that I now realize a lot of what you have been explaining to us for quite some time now.

I now realize some of the pros + cons of the DP VS a life sentence, and the almost gauranteed endless appeals and more attention that JA would get if given the DP.

Its a much more complicated thing than I had thought when this trial first started so long ago. I am seeing advantages and disadvantages that I hadnt realized to the extent that I realize them now.

Nurmis bizarre methods have started to show us how obscenely far some of the appeals + objections can go. It will no doubt continue even if she gets DP.

However, I do think the particular judge in this case has all but faciliated his methods and increased the length of this trial much longer than it needed to be. So, in that avenue, this case is somewhat of a unique situation because I think another judge would have had this over a long time ago.

For the time being, I am sticking by the State and Juan and still agree with them trying to get the proper sentence that JA deserves. I think my main reason is that that particular verdict would keep her isolated more and away from other prisoners to prevent her from possibly harming another human. In addition to hopefully preventing her from being able to so willingly communicate with the outside world and other privileges that she would get if given just a life sentence. I do think she deserves a just punishment for what she has done and still feel the DP is a more proper punishment for her. I do understand she may never actually get executed and understand the lengthy appeals, however, the time spent behind bars I believe is different when under a DP senthence and I am weighing that into my thinking.

Anyway, thanks so much for helping us all understand a lot of how these things work. If we had a different judge from the beginning, I honestly think this would have been over by now.

Since we are stuck with the current process, I am willing to take a deep breath and suffer along with the rest of us until the time finally comes where her sentence can be handed out. Whenever that will be.

Hi Hatfield,

And my hat is definitely off to you and others for your fortitude in sticking with this process. I couldn't agree more about this Judge. A funny and odd little aside, in our second trial that Judge was so , what's the word, ballsy?, that he had his own gun up on the bench with him during the entire trial. How Wild West was that?

Judges have swung so far worrying about fairness that they've lost sight of fairness. Know what I mean? The fairness factor is skewed so far in favor of our society's worst of the worst that the pendulum just has to swing back and maybe this trial will be a turning point. In that line of thinking, Travis' life was also not in vain.

Jodi Arias is the worst of the worst and she does deserve the death penalty with no doubt. And...she will be afforded more of the privileges she is right now just for that very reason, and even moreso as time goes on if she ends up on Death Row. It's a definite conundrum and one that will force change I feel certain.

It's hard to imagine what makes sociopaths suffer as they don't have normal human emotions and are quite adaptable. She will adapt wherever she lands and live in her lala land of fantasy that Travis got what he deserved and she is receiving some kind of accolades as she entertains herself daily with the details of her heinous crime. That's just a reality as I see it.

Her sentence and the subsequent "suffering" is more a factor for the rest of us, and primarily Travis family/loved ones. So, I hope she gets the DP for that resolution for them. And hope she doesn't get it for their future.

This and other frustrations are reasons it's healthier for me to keep my distance. Yet here I am, posting. A living conundrum myself.

Anyway, hi.

 

[Tuba]

Since Arias is going to be litigating issues, as her attorney tells it, I think she will raise questions about his and Willmott's failure to locate evidence of her bruises. She was sure there were telling photos on a misplaced hard drive and then she was sure Matt M. would provide a statement that he had seen them. Martinez destroyed that one, since Matt's observations were accomplished over the phone, as the story evolved. But she will refer such questions to Matt M. anyway.

She probably will not relinquish her vilification of the victim as a pedophile as well as a bruiser. This, despite the absence of any incidents and the lack of any record of such interests. And her own wish that her children & Travis' would one day play together, as voiced to his friends. Bearing in mind she wanted to exclude him from those of his friends who had children because of his deviant nature. Let's call it The Charge of a Thousand Contradictions.
As ShadyLady says, she just won't give it up. Such a strange attachment she has to this, considering her murder was rabidly personal, not an effort to correct matters for society as a vigilante for justice. I just have to add that if the image landing at her feet "in the chaotic way that paper falls" were a scene in a movie, it would be cut. In the original & in her retelling.

She will have more issues, with the t.v. & print media and the social media. She will blame the prosecutor, the sheriff and law enforcement. She will recall a childhood of neglect & physical punishment. But do not call on Patti W. who characterizes Jodi's early life as idyllic and say Jodi always made those fantastic claims.

Does any of this sound like remorse or even ownership of the moral turpitude of her actions? We know what she thinks: "Jodi Is Innocent". She has said it and she has put that word out all over. Maybe we should complain because she is polluting the communications web with her gross, gigantic LIE.

 

[katiecoolady]

The issues with the DP, and this trial in particular, may be signs of a confused and uncertain society, yet the confusion and uncertainty are borne of a sincere desire on society's part to be truly fair. Turn the clock back 50, 100, 250 years, and slavery was an established fact, minorities were openly and universally discriminated against and fairness was as much a function of your heritage as anything else. Times of transition and change are by their nature unsettling and confusing, and that has always been exploited by the less selfless elements of society to try to get their way. It's the price we pay for real change, but since the basis of this current turmoil in our legal system is to establish a more true foundation for justice, it is bound to land there eventually, in spite of the motion sickness, and anger, the process may cause.

I agree...real change happens in any system by crossing a river of Chaos to get there. And Jodi Arias is stirring the Chaos pot using her wooden spoon with glee. It's nauseating and yes motion sickness but necessary. And I also believe necessary to keep speaking out loud about it so we don't get buried in complacency. The Truth will rise, she will subside in to an evil blur with the likes of Scott Peterson and society will rise.

I'd like to see a study on what would truly make a sociopath suffer, create those kinds of conditions and put these worst of the worst of the worst in them to live out the rest of their lives in obscurity. But that's just me right now. Disgusted by the faux-power I'm seeing her and hers exert. It's just flat out gross.

 

[RadarLuv]

Afternoon all. Wow, have I lost track. Anything happening since they called break til Wed last week?

 

[katiecoolady]

Since Arias is going to be litigating issues, as her attorney tells it, I think she will raise questions about his and Willmott's failure to locate evidence of her bruises. She was sure there were telling photos on a misplaced hard drive and then she was sure Matt M. would provide a statement that he had seen them. Martinez destroyed that one, since Matt's observations were accomplished over the phone, as the story evolved. But she will refer such questions to Matt M. anyway.

She probably will not relinquish her vilification of the victim as a pedophile as well as a bruiser. This, despite the absence of any incidents and the lack of any record of such interests. And her own wish that her children & Travis' would one day play together, as voiced to his friends. Bearing in mind she wanted to exclude him from those of his friends who had children because of his deviant nature. Let's call it The Charge of a Thousand Contradictions.
As ShadyLady says, she just won't give it up. Such a strange attachment she has to this, considering her murder was rabidly personal, not an effort to correct matters for society as a vigilante for justice. I just have to add that if the image landing at her feet "in the chaotic way that paper falls" were a scene in a movie, it would be cut. In the original & in her retelling.

She will have more issues, with the t.v. & print media and the social media. She will blame the prosecutor, the sheriff and law enforcement. She will recall a childhood of neglect & physical punishment. But do not call on Patti W. who characterizes Jodi's early life as idyllic and say Jodi always made those fantastic claims.

Does any of this sound like remorse or even ownership of the moral turpitude of her actions? We know what she thinks: "Jodi Is Innocent". She has said it and she has put that word out all over. Maybe we should complain because she is polluting the communications web with her gross, gigantic LIE.

Funny we both used this exact word at the exact time. Because that's what it's gotten to hasn't it? Gross. In all senses of the word.

 

[cindymac]

The part that floored me: The only danger Travis was in from me was "spiritual endangerment".

Yes... of having his spirit severed from his body.

 

[Steve44]

So true about how a DP sentence will allow her to gain more sympathy from her minions, as well as probably getting even more sympathizers that will come out of the woodwork.

It is such an interesting topic about the advantages and disadvantages, and I have learned so much with this case.

I believe Katie and others have brought up Victims rights and that much more can be done along those lines. It will be nice to see changes in the future that help the victim and their families more.

Until more is done or changes are made, there probably is no right way or wrong way to think about things.

The DP process and sentence itself is subject to forces of change in society right now so to try to make a firm determination of its suitableness in a particular case is to stand on shifting and uncertain ground. One could say it's clear enough she deserves it so she should get it, that's easy enough, but what course that sentence will actually take is anyone's guess.

 

[Steft50]

I've decided that I would be ok with her receiving LWOP. My reasons for wanting her to get the DP isn't because I think it will ever been implemented, but because it will put her on death row, and isolated for the most part. It will take away any audience that she can perform for and it will remove most personal attention she will receive. Someone like her will wilt without an audience in an atmosphere where she will control very little of those around her, unlike what she has been able to do in this trial.

 

[katiecoolady]

Someone refresh my memory. How do the appeals work, which sentence gives her the freebie appeal. I've heard various dollar figures thrown out there for hiring an appeal attorney. I'm wondering just how much it may cost her to hire one.

Ok this question is one that I can answer. And I made the mistake of clicking on a video last night where Jodi's parents are soliciting money for an appeal.

My sister's killers are German citizens who never had any money other than what they stole off various victims or garnered from pawning my sister's possessions. They were only in the US a few short months before incarceration so clearly never contributed a dollar in taxes. They have no family with any money being raised for them in the two plus decades they've been incarcerated--both on AZ Death Row for 18 years--one still remains, the other in General population now.

There have been tens of millions of dollars spent on their appeals by both State and Federal taxpayer dollars. We were told the mental retardation appeal alone that took SEVEN YEARS to get to court cost taxpayers at least TEN MILLION DOLLARS alone. One appeal issue--10 million. ZERO of which was provided by either of them.

My point is Jodi Arias parents are lying. The money they are soliciting will not go to any appeals or legal defense. That will be entirely covered by taxpayer dollars. ENTIRELY. And it's excellent attorneys too that they get, willing to either work probono or rake in the kinds of millions of dollars that go to this sort of thing over the years. It's a lucrative business for them.

The money Jodi Arias family is seeking is being used for something (likely their own expenses in attending the trial and put in to Jodi's account) but they are fraudulently advertising it's for legal defense because they don't need it for that.

Hope this answers that. Her appeals lawyer will be provided. In fact lawyers will line up for the job. For free (oh wait, we the taxpayers will pick up the bill).

Blech.

 

[AZlawyer]

Someone refresh my memory. How do the appeals work, which sentence gives her the freebie appeal. I've heard various dollar figures thrown out there for hiring an appeal attorney. I'm wondering just how much it may cost her to hire one.

Any sentence would allow her to have an attorney appointed at public expense for her appeal.

I charge $350/hr for appeals. A direct appeal in this case (not post-conviction relief so not including any ineffective assistance of counsel issues) would take me, I would estimate, 175-250 hours depending on the sentence (life vs. death), the helpfulness of trial counsel, etc.

ETA: After reading KCL's post, I must add that I am not volunteering to take on the appeal, for pay or otherwise lol.

 

[katiecoolady]

The DP process and sentence itself is subject to forces of change in society right now so to try to make a firm determination of its suitableness in a particular case is to stand on shifting and uncertain ground. One could say it's clear enough she deserves it so she should get it, that's easy enough, but what course that sentence will actually take is anyone's guess.

I've been told for years by someone I trust completely that she believes the DP will be long gone in the State of AZ before Cindy's killers would ever be executed. But the harsh living conditions is enough for me. And now, separation as one was released back in to general population. I'm ok with all of that.
But yes, it's going I believe. It's too expensive for sure--thanks to those fighting to abolish it sucking our tax dollars dry fighting it. I just hope they don't transfer to fighting another harsh sentence once execution is off the table.