Retrial for Sentencing of Jodi Arias - 11/3/14 Hearing - Part 2

[katiecoolady]

Any sentence would allow her to have an attorney appointed at public expense for her appeal.

I charge $350/hr for appeals. A direct appeal in this case (not post-conviction relief so not including any ineffective assistance of counsel issues) would take me, I would estimate, 175-250 hours depending on the sentence (life vs. death), the helpfulness of trial counsel, etc.

ETA: After reading KCL's post, I must add that I am not volunteering to take on the appeal, for pay or otherwise lol.

LOL! Thanks for backing up my post though...with a professional validation! What do you think of Arias' parents claiming they are soliciting $$ for "legal defense" and "appeals"?

 

[Steve44]

I've decided that I would be ok with her receiving LWOP. My reasons for wanting her to get the DP isn't because I think it will ever been implemented, but because it will put her on death row, and isolated for the most part. It will take away any audience that she can perform for and it will remove most personal attention she will receive. Someone like her will wilt without an audience in an atmosphere where she will control very little of those around her, unlike what she has been able to do in this trial.

Maybe that's a compromise society can eventually reach; no DP, but replaced with 'Life In Isolation'. Of course there will always be those to take up the cause and cry 'too cruel', but to me, it seems a reasonable compromise, it will be used as an ultimate punishment after all, and I bet it would hit the sociopaths where it hurts most.

 

[AZlawyer]

LOL! Thanks for backing up my post though...with a professional validation! What do you think of Arias' parents claiming they are soliciting $$ for "legal defense" and "appeals"?

I think they specifically said that they wanted the $ so they could hire one of the best private appellate attorneys rather than being stuck with the appointed attorneys (who, by the way, are pretty good at the job since it's all they do). Last I heard they had raised $30,000 or so. IMO not enough for their purported purpose. Note that my estimate above was for one direct state-court appeal--no post-conviction proceedings or appeals to a higher court.

 

[janx]

Wasn't Nurmi supposed to have filed something with the COA by Friday? What did he file? Will we even hear about it?

 

[Steve44]

Ok this question is one that I can answer. And I made the mistake of clicking on a video last night where Jodi's parents are soliciting money for an appeal.

My sister's killers are German citizens who never had any money other than what they stole off various victims or garnered from pawning my sister's possessions. They were only in the US a few short months before incarceration so clearly never contributed a dollar in taxes. They have no family with any money being raised for them in the two plus decades they've been incarcerated--both on AZ Death Row for 18 years--one still remains, the other in General population now.

There have been tens of millions of dollars spent on their appeals by both State and Federal taxpayer dollars. We were told the mental retardation appeal alone that took SEVEN YEARS to get to court cost taxpayers at least TEN MILLION DOLLARS alone. One appeal issue--10 million. ZERO of which was provided by either of them.

My point is Jodi Arias parents are lying. The money they are soliciting will not go to any appeals or legal defense. That will be entirely covered by taxpayer dollars. ENTIRELY. And it's excellent attorneys too that they get, willing to either work probono or rake in the kinds of millions of dollars that go to this sort of thing over the years. It's a lucrative business for them.

The money Jodi Arias family is seeking is being used for something (likely their own expenses in attending the trial and put in to Jodi's account) but they are fraudulently advertising it's for legal defense because they don't need it for that.

Hope this answers that. Her appeals lawyer will be provided. In fact lawyers will line up for the job. For free (oh wait, we the taxpayers will pick up the bill).

Blech.

Wow Katie, thanks for posting. That is truly disgusting.

 

[Steve44]

Double posting bug squashed...

 

[AZlawyer]

Wasn't Nurmi supposed to have filed something with the COA by Friday? What did he file? Will we even hear about it?

He and JM both filed their Responses to Petition for Special Action on Friday. They are not available online AFAIK.

 

[Steft50]

Wasn't Nurmi supposed to have filed something with the COA by Friday? What did he file? Will we even hear about it?

I thought he was appealing the appeal ruling on the closed courtroom secret witness thing? I didn't pay close attention to why the judge let him not call a witness till this Wednesday so I could be confused.

 

[katiecoolady]

Maybe that's a compromise society can eventually reach; no DP, but replaced with 'Life In Isolation'. Of course there will always be those to take up the cause and cry 'too cruel', but to me, it seems a reasonable compromise, it will be used as an ultimate punishment after all, and I bet it would hit the sociopaths where it hurts most.

I'm all for the "Life Row" concept where conditions are harsher (meaning the isolation more severe). Then, just maybe, we could find out if anything would or could actually be a deterrent. A sentence that is never carried out (death) is impossible to even study.

 

[katiecoolady]

Wow Katie, thanks for posting. That is truly disgusting.

Please get your barf bag in advance because I'm getting ready to kick it up a notch.

Our biased Judge (Silvia Arellano) ruled that nothing could be allowed in this "mental retardation" appeal that was evidence from their lives past the age of 18. Meaning, EVIDENCE OF THEIR CRIMES (first degree murder including extensive premeditation and conspiracy) could not be allowed in this appeal which would decide the SENTENCE for their CRIMES. How slippery was that by a Judge who was against the DP, close to retiring and the ONLY finder of fact in that appeal?

Anyway, one of the expensive expenses (redundant I know) of their side was bringing an elderly man who appeared to be in his 90s who was an administrator at a school these men had attended several decades before. Let me see, I guess at least 40 years prior he had been involved in a school they'd attended in Germany. He was flown, along with his wife, to the US to testify in this appeal as to specific memories he had of these boys decades prior. His demeanor was gleeful and glib I'm sure as it was the only time he'd ever had the opportunity to take a trip to the US! With his wife no less! On our taxpayer dollars!

I considered it going something like this "oh surely you remember these boys and their retarded behavior in your school forty years ago...and surely you'd like a nice vacation for free to Arizona in the USA, go to the Grand Canyon, see the sights and have some fun! With your wife!". Hell maybe we even flew them first class to boot. I wouldn't be surprised.
He could barely walk, could barely string coherent sentences together but was one of the main witnesses Silvia Arellano relied on to make her determination that one of them was in fact mentally retarded. All on our taxpayer dollar. Oh and their attorneys of course had to travel to Germany at least once to gather up witnesses as well...on our dime of course. It goes on and on and on....here's a blog I wrote on more on this subject if you're interested.

http://twoinnocents.com/2014/10/24/death-penalty-thoughts-1/

 

[bsk]

I've been told for years by someone I trust completely that she believes the DP will be long gone in the State of AZ before Cindy's killers would ever be executed. But the harsh living conditions is enough for me. And now, separation as one was released back in to general population. I'm ok with all of that.
But yes, it's going I believe. It's too expensive for sure--thanks to those fighting to abolish it sucking our tax dollars dry fighting it. I just hope they don't transfer to fighting another harsh sentence once execution is off the table.

BBM - I've wondered exactly the same thing. They've tried to make it so expensive to administer the death penalty that states will start giving up on it. But since for those same people this whole process just happened to be a huge money-maker, then given a choice between patting themselves on the back and relaxing to enjoy their $$$ vs starting the whole cycle on LWOP or the like, it doesn't take a genius to figure out which one they are more likely to choose.

 

[Steve44]

I'm all for the "Life Row" concept where conditions are harsher (meaning the isolation more severe). Then, just maybe, we could find out if anything would or could actually be a deterrent. A sentence that is never carried out (death) is impossible to even study.

As far as the DP being an actual deterrent, I have my doubts. I'm thinking mainly of murder-suicides, those people don't seem to value life at all, that of others or their own. Besides, death itself is fairly easy, is it not? A matter of a few minutes, and I wouldn't count on criminals and sociopaths being too concerned with 'eternity' that's too subjective a measure to try to apply. But a life, THIS life, spent in long, endless isolation, that's something everyone can understand and agree is pretty horrible, and thus has a chance at providing deterrence.

 

[katiecoolady]

As far as the DP being an actual deterrent, I have my doubts. I'm thinking mainly of murder-suicides, those people don't seem to value life at all, that of others or their own. Besides, death itself is fairly easy, is it not? A matter of a few minutes, and I wouldn't count on criminals and sociopaths being too concerned with 'eternity' that's too subjective a measure to try to apply. But a life, THIS life, spent in long, endless isolation, that's something everyone can understand and agree is pretty horrible, and thus has a chance at providing deterrence.

Thing is I don't think many of them think of long term consequences much anyway. Narcissists (which all sociopaths are) are in the moment thinkers...what they want in that moment and the grandiosity to think they can pull it off and not get caught. They are just a different breed of human (or non human) and somehow need to be consequenced as such. I'd like them to be deprived of all stimulation, including mirrors and tv's. I guess I'm just not feeling too charitable at the moment.

 

[shajon123]

OK, a little thought I have been thinking, why not just put all said inmates in all states on all LWOP/DP cases on an island with just food and water and let them have at it.... It would be the best solution for all concerned, and they can see who is the strongest to survive.... and of course, they can never leave the island alive.... JMO....I know, never happen, but what IF...

 

[Steve44]

Thing is I don't think many of them think of long term consequences much anyway. Narcissists (which all sociopaths are) are in the moment thinkers...what they want in that moment and the grandiosity to think they can pull it off and not get caught. They are just a different breed of human (or non human) and somehow need to be consequenced as such. I'd like them to be deprived of all stimulation, including mirrors and tv's. I guess I'm just not feeling too charitable at the moment.

Yea let's not set the bar too high here. Nothing's ever gonna be perfect unless our scientist friends figure out a way for all of us to jump into a parallel universe of our choosing (I'm waiting fellas...), but to figure out how to maintain a civilized society that has an option for severe but just punishment for the worst of us can't remain totally out of our reach, can it?

 

[Steve44]

Please get your barf bag in advance because I'm getting ready to kick it up a notch.

Our biased Judge (Silvia Arellano) ruled that nothing could be allowed in this "mental retardation" appeal that was evidence from their lives past the age of 18. Meaning, EVIDENCE OF THEIR CRIMES (first degree murder including extensive premeditation and conspiracy) could not be allowed in this appeal which would decide the SENTENCE for their CRIMES. How slippery was that by a Judge who was against the DP, close to retiring and the ONLY finder of fact in that appeal?

That was a hostile, duplicitous, biased attack on the victims by a judge who cared nothing for the facts of the case, and only saw it as means to an end in her opposition to the DP. I'm sorry for you Katie.

 

[katiecoolady]

That was a hostile, duplicitous, biased attack on the victims by a judge who cared nothing for the facts of the case, and only saw it as means to an end in her opposition to the DP. I'm sorry for you Katie.

That's exactly what it was and I have to say it was the most terrifying thing I had to deal with in the entire deal, since they were arrested. She could have set up a situation where they were BOTH up for parole in five years. From death row to parole. It was utterly horrifying. And thank you for caring.

I'm not kidding when I say that once these monsters get sentenced to death the primary people who care about anything having to do with them are those fighting to get them relief from their sentence. The victim is erased and no one really follows the case on behalf of the victim, other than families. It's pretty horrific honestly.

 

[Steve44]

OK, a little thought I have been thinking, why not just put all said inmates in all states on all LWOP/DP cases on an island with just food and water and let them have at it.... It would be the best solution for all concerned, and they can see who is the strongest to survive.... and of course, they can never leave the island alive.... JMO....I know, never happen, but what IF...

Well, the Networks would be all over this...

 

[katiecoolady]

arrrrrgggghhhh...I need to step away from twitter right now. Someone on there is trying to convince me that Jodi will get only ONE appeal on taxpayer dime if she gets the DP. WHO IN THE HELL DOES SHE THINK PAYS FOR THE REST OF THEM? Ok, I gotta sign off. :seeya:

 

[janx]

arrrrrgggghhhh...I need to step away from twitter right now. Someone on there is trying to convince me that Jodi will get only ONE appeal on taxpayer dime if she gets the DP. WHO IN THE HELL DOES SHE THINK PAYS FOR THE REST OF THEM? Ok, I gotta sign off. :seeya:

I saw that, KCL... Sounds as if some misinformation has been making the rounds as usual.