Retrieving wreckage from AirAsia Flight To Singapore- no survivors recovered

[CARIIS]

I noticed a hail core in the large storm (the black area indicates hail). I wonder if a hail storm would act like a bird strike with immediate results? Maybe the turbulence wouldn't down the plane, but a puncture hole or several could be devastating.

Both hail and thrunderstorms have taken down aircraft. Hail /rain did this one
Southern Airways Flight 242 was a DC-9-31 jet, registered N1335U, that executed a forced landing on a highway in New Hope, Paulding County, Georgia, United States after suffering hail damage and losing thrust on both engines in a severe thunderstorm on April 4, 1977.[SUP][2][/SUP]
At the time of the accident, the Southern Airways aircraft was flying from Northwest Alabama Regional Airport to Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport. Sixty-three people on the aircraft (including the flight crew) and nine people on the ground died; twenty passengers survived, as well as the two flight attendants. One of the initial survivors succumbed to his injuries several weeks later.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Airways_Flight_242

Severe weather did this - this was a huge wreck in terms of the number of lives it has saved as a result of the changes implmented after learning what windshear does to aircraft. A watershed crash:

At Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport, weather was also poor and an isolated thunderstorm developed in the vicinity of the airport. The flight crew noticed the isolated storms ahead, but decided to proceed through them anyway, which resulted in the aircraft getting caught in a microburst. At an altitude of about 1,500 feet (460 m), First Officer Price mentioned to Captain Connors that he saw lightning in one of the clouds ahead.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Air_Lines_Flight_191

Pan AM :
Flight 759 began its takeoff roll toward the east of the airport, with gusty, variable and rain laden winds swirling directly at its nose. McCullers and crew held the Boeing on the ground until 158 knots indicated airspeed was reached; seven knots above the aircraft's V2 takeoff safety speed of 151kt. About three dozen witnesses, several of them qualified pilots, saw flight 759 lift off about 7,000ft down runway 10 in, to quote one airline pilot, a “normal rotation, lift off and initial climb segment.” But it reached a height of only 100-150 feet before beginning to descend in a steep nose up attitude. At approximately 16:09, it clipped trees while veering to the left, struck a powerline, and crashed into the the middle-class suburb of Kenner, fireballing and destroying six houses,
http://www.airdisaster.com/special/special-pa759.shtml

Those are just a couple off top of my head - but it is a myth that thrunder storms do not impact flight. The only reason, now days , they are less prelevant is because of the technology that allows the areas to be a avoided ahead of time, as oppossed to any aircraft being able to just plow into! In all liklihood that is what we are going to see here.

He obviously had weather concerns - he practically doubled his fuel order.ANd half that part of the world has been flooding the last month - I would not be surprised if they dont get some trouble for flying in momsoon event

 

[CARIIS]

BBM, you know that always makes me nervous. Recent maintenance, it should be the opposite but I have seen it happen a lot, something wasn't done right... I do not think that is the case here though.

I think that is connected by all of us by car mechanics!! How often have you not had more hassle after a car repair! HA!

 

[HulaMum]

Yes, hail, in its most severe forms, damages airplanes and can have catastrophic results - damage to the leading edges, engine flame-outs and damaged windows. Most definitely a weather event to avoid.

Sorry, I am way behind and have not made it all the way through this thread. I probably won't be able to. For those of us with spouses and families in aviation, there is only so much we can take. Another missing airplane? I'm afraid that I can't let myself think about it enough to be of much help, if that makes any sense.

 

[CARIIS]

So is there a chance that people are still alive? Could the pilots have managed to go down in a controlled manner and now float on the ocean?

Sorry to be bearer of bad news, but highly unlikely. The seas from weather reports would be huge waves. The aircraft has wing hung engines, which would tear off typically.

The US AIr Hudson crash was a miracle, on glass smooth river, by a pilot who just happened to enjoy and train gliding planes (not commericial onees!)

I can only think of one in a jetliner where it did not break up (sure there are a couple more - but super rare).

Here is what tends to happen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE2Yn0cipTY

This one was amazing but the engines are not wing mounted, which matters!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C80grd2CrTI

 

[panthera]

which would be congruent with being close to stalling the plane...

Possibly the beginning of engine failure due to hail?

:waitasec:

 

[SCHMAE]

So is there a chance that people are still alive? Could the pilots have managed to go down in a controlled manner and now float on the ocean?

I am an idiot and I love HOPE so I'm going to say until something is found , there is hope !

 

[Elainera]

Sorry to be bearer of bad news, but highly unlikely. The seas from weather reports would be huge waves. The aircraft has wing hung engines, which would tear off typically.

The US AIr Hudson crash was a miracle, on glass smooth river, by a pilot who just happened to enjoy and train gliding planes (not commericial onees!)

I can only think of one in a jetliner where it did not break up (sure there are a couple more - but super rare).

Here is what tends to happen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE2Yn0cipTY

This one was amazing but the engines are not wing mounted, which matters!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C80grd2CrTI

Yea you're right. Sadly I must add.

Also if they would be alive there would have been phone calls coming from the plane.

 

[emirates1957]

In AF447 the Air France plane that stalled in the sky the pilots were in panic mode and couldn't right the situation. There has been discussion and concern on the airliners.net forum that pilots are seriously unprepared for exceptional events such as stalling and are over reliant on auto pilot.

I was just speaking to our aircraft engineers - Air France was pure pilot error. They pulled the nose up which stalled the aircraft, If they had of put the nose down they would have recovered.

 

[Elainera]

I am an idiot and I love HOPE so I'm going to say until something is found , there is hope !

You are certainly not an idiot

 

[sherbetjello]

Tim Vasquez, a former U.S. Air Force meteorologist who runs the Web site WeatherGraphics.com, analyzed available weather data and posits that, despite the presence of strong storms, atmospheric instability was unlikely strong enough to generate severe turbulence or microbursts. However, Vasquez believes it is plausible the aircraft encountered icing.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ditions-when-airasia-flight-8501-disappeared/

 

[Elainera]

They're saying on CNN now that if the plane crashed the emergency beacon locators (sp?) should have gone off.

 

[sherbetjello]

They're saying on CNN now that if the plane crashed the emergency beacon locators (sp?) shold have gone off.

That it didn't, has my hinky meter activated.

 

[CARIIS]

The longer it goes without seeing any wreckage, the more reason to compare the two missing planes regardless of how deep the ocean is where they went missing. I have never been convinced the other plane ever made it to the southern area where the searches have been conducted.

For the families' sakes, I hope they do find this plane and there is a logical explanation for the sudden loss of contact easily determined. I cannot imagine what they are all going through and the fact there were 17 children aboard this flight compounds the grief and despair. So very sad.

I know it seems like a long time at this point. But i think not finding anything at this point is more about weather and nighfall. That is what was so obserd about MAL its was perfect weather. They found TWA easily. Air France took some time cause they did not have last location.

I too agree I think today they will find evidence clearly indicating that a plane is down. I do not believe MAL "crashed" anywhere - think drones guys. It was taken. I cant think of a time in recent years where not one iota of an airliner was ever ever ever ever happened. IN the old days it happened all the time , not becuase there was not wreckage all over the water, for weeks, but becuase in those days, they had no idea where a plane was in flight- there is a difference! THere was no radar etc - so basically the plane no showed with no clue as to where it might have had trouble.

IN fact cant recall any large commericial jetlliner vanishing off the face of the planet earth. There have been small ones where nothing has ever been found - that takes us back to the same thing- they do not track general aviation flight - the buzz around as they like! Some of the personal jets vanish in third world areas - same reason technology.

MAL 370 was piloted with the exact same technology what we USA, Isreael, Russia, China use to fly drones thousands upon thousands a time a day. I think media (in conjunction with govt secrecy) has all of us believing drones are these little things!

There is no different technology needed to remotly fly this

than this :

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or this:

Same stuff - thrust, speed, weight, identical! JIMO

 

[Elainera]

Also on CNN, search effort will be hampered by 9 ft waves and rain, low visibility.

 

[Elainera]

I'm wondering right now, why are they so certain the plane is in the area they're searching? MH370 was thought to have continued flying until its fuel ran out. Why do they not assume this happened to this flight? Sorry if this is a stupid question :waitasec:

 

[CARIIS]

I was just speaking to our aircraft engineers - Air France was pure pilot error. They pulled the nose up which stalled the aircraft, If they had of put the nose down they would have recovered.

That is true , but there is more to the story! Ask em what role Airbus' "glass cockpit" had in the crash? They pulled the nose up becasue of erronous information being provided by pivot tubes, computer BUT they also had to deal with the computer was making the plane "DO" , what the computers were doing , adding to their total confusion as to what happened, what was happening, why what was happening etc.

 

[CARIIS]

Possibly the beginning of engine failure due to hail?

:waitasec:

sounds like a good possiblity - I am just thinking this is so Air France again, both AIrbus!

 

[emirates1957]

I noticed a hail core in the large storm (the black area indicates hail). I wonder if a hail storm would act like a bird strike with immediate results? Maybe the turbulence wouldn't down the plane, but a puncture hole or several could be devastating.

Severe hail at 32000 ft alone would panel beat the aircraft. The Captain would make a PAN call and request an emergency descent if it was that bad. An aircraft can be hit by hail and it would still be able to fly.

 

[SCHMAE]

You are certainly not an idiot

Well , yes I am because get this ...... supposing the plane has landed somewhere safe , same as 370 and all people are being treated well !!!!!!!!!!! **speculative**

This is me !

 

[CARIIS]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ditions-when-airasia-flight-8501-disappeared/

ah ha -- good wok ! that would take us back to iced up pivot tubes (speedometer) , false readings, computer confusing everything......Air France!