Revisit - Did CA/GA cover up 7-16-08

[JBean]

I've thought this way too. Does pig decomp really smell similar enough to human decomp for them to be confused? Maybe they thought Casey had put something disgusting/dead pig in the car and abandoned it to be towed w/enormous fees just to be a spiteful b!tch? I think at least Cindy could have been thinking that- I'm not sure about George bc of the things he has said/admitted in interviews.

But IF the smell of human decomp is so distinctive and was so strong then why didn't ANY of those cops that were in and out of the house July 15 say-- hold on a minute-- we must have a dead body??!!

I've never really heard anyone question either George or Cindy enough about just how much cleaning was done. Could Febreze really have covered it? That's quite a commercial for Febreze.

This was a very hotly debated issue at the time. The responding officers seem to pay it no mind. They were coming in the door as Cindy was telling dispatch the car smelled, so imo all that info gets to the officers.
It has never made sense to me that they had a missing child report, a car that smelled like a dead body and they didn't seal off the car. rather they picked it up many many hours later the next day. That is like leaving a crime scene open to anyone to walk through it.
I thought that perhaps they didn't smell it at all. but there was testimony in the bond hearing that they did smell the odor coming from the car. So,coupled with the fact that Cindy reported it in the 911 call I can not understand why, if it was so bad, it wasn't a priority issue.

 

[capps]

This was a very hotly debated issue at the time. The responding officers seem to pay it no mind. They were coming in the door as Cindy was telling dispatch the car smelled, so imo all that info gets to the officers.
It has never made sense to me that they had a missing child report, a car that smelled like a dead body and they didn't seal off the car. rather they picked it up many many hours later the next day. That is like leaving a crime scene open to anyone to walk through it.
I thought that perhaps they didn't smell it at all. but there was testimony in the bond hearing that they did smell the odor coming from the car. So,coupled with the fact that Cindy reported it in the 911 call I can not understand why, if it was so bad, it wasn't a priority issue.

That is weird. You're right JBean,it doesn't make sense. Actually,that would be very good for the defense: My clients are saying it did not smell like a dead body. If it was an obvious smell of human decomp I'm sure the officers would have noted this...but they didn't. Hmmm.

ETA: Oh wait,I see your post says that they DID smell the odor. That's craziness that they didn't seal it!

 

[JBean]

That is weird. You're right JBean,it doesn't make sense. Actually,that would be very good for the defense: My clients are saying it did not smell like a dead body. If it was an obvious smell of human decomp I'm sure the officers would have noted this...but they didn't. Hmmm.

ETA: Oh wait,I see your post says that they DID smell the odor. That's craziness that they didn't seal it!

well imo, they did not find the odor very remarkable. So it makes me wonder.

 

[sumbunny]

well imo, they did not find the odor very remarkable. So it makes me wonder.

cindy went fabreeze crazy for a bit as well..

human decomp is a very sweet smell *disgustingly sweet* and some fabreeze scents can be very sweet as well.

just a thought.

 

[Steely Dan]

IMO...This is enough to convict KC...forget forensics...this is proof beyond a reasonable doubt towards motive.

All the prosecution needs, IMO, are the comments she made to the cops and her taking them all over the place when she said the kid had been missing for a month.

well imo, they did not find the odor very remarkable. So it makes me wonder.

As sumbunny pointed out it may have been mixed with a fresh dose of Febreeze or something else. However, I think the 911 call should have been enough for that.

Does anyone know if it was patrolman or detectives that were sent to the house?

 

[Tuffy]

cindy went fabreeze crazy for a bit as well..

human decomp is a very sweet smell *disgustingly sweet* and some fabreeze scents can be very sweet as well.

just a thought.

Lee doesn't describe it that way though. If you thought someone had just sprayed too much fabreeze, you wouldn't react like he did, or the way Cindy did. She described it as a "damn dead body" and Lee couldn't stand to be in the garage for more than a couple of minutes.

It is really strange that LE didn't think it was worth taking the car then.

 

[TakeNote]

im not sure what the law is....but i always thought that LE noticed the smell....but they couldnt at that point do anything about it.....they may have had to get a SW first....? they were there on a missing person.....not sure but maybe they had protocol to follow....?

im sure the A's cleaned as fast as they could......

i think they were all in shock at first....
they new...but didnt want to know.....to painful to except
that turned into denial.....then guilt.....then cover up

 

[Leila]

IMO...This is enough to convict KC...forget forensics...this is proof beyond a reasonable doubt towards motive.

As soon as we learned about the fight, which Cindy denies happened, we had the motive. The mere fact that Cindy denies the fight ever happened, means it plays a pivotal role, providing the catalyst for all that happened afterward..............Casey's rage which led to Caylee's death.

On July 3rd, Cindy knew that fight was what drove Casey to leave home taking Caylee with her. At that point, she thought that Casey was only punishing her by not letting her see or talk to Caylee. Cindy didn't know that Casey had taken Caylee away from Cindy forever.

 

[Gma Kat]

I think that CA "knew" something as soon as that car pulled in the driveway....but a small part of her had hope that she was wrong. I think that while she cleaned up the car she still hoped that she could get KC to produce Caylee. In the back of her mind, she left open the possibility that Caylee was alive, but her deliberate actions were her "motherly" instincts to protect her daughter kicking in. When she finally got KC home and found out that KC would not or could not produce a safe and live Caylee her gut reactions kicked in. She was realizing that her fears had been confirmed. She called 911 because in that moment of anger and panic(her real feelings unfiltered)..she wanted KC punished. She wanted KC held accountable. She wanted Caylee and KC was an afterthought. It was after she realized that night that Caylee was never coming home that she began her agenda to protect KC. Again...motherly instincts kicking in.

what she said

 

[JBean]

cindy went fabreeze crazy for a bit as well..

human decomp is a very sweet smell *disgustingly sweet* and some fabreeze scents can be very sweet as well.

just a thought.

So that would mean in the 30 seconds between CA hanging up the phone with the dispatcher that she told the car smelled like a dead body and the officers walking in, the car didn't smell anymore?
Personally I think the repsonding officers missed it and the detectvies picked up on it. JMHO of course. but considering CA told them about it, I still don't get it.
A dead body smell would perhaps indicate a crime scene and I gotta believe they can seal it off.
I also think that if they asked CA and GA for the car at that moment to help find their grandchild they would have handed it right over. but we will never know.

 

[Mystic]

IIRC the last call CA made was about Caylee being missing, wasn't the smell of the car on a separate call? not verbatim... 'my daughter is here and she just told me my grand-daughter has is missing, has been missing for 31 days' I just seem to remember this similar discussion on another thread hmm And that was a reason that someone mentioned here that the responding Officers from the last call may not have had the full reports of other calls.

I may be wrong but I doubt CA mentioned the smell of the car again to LE when they arrived.

 

[JBean]

IIRC the last call CA made was about Caylee being missing, wasn't the smell of the car on a separate call? not verbatim... 'my daughter is here and she just told me my grand-daughter has is missing, has been missing for 31 days' I just seem to remember this similar discussion on another thread hmm And that was a reason that someone mentioned here that the responding Officers from the last call may not have had the full reports of other calls.

I may be wrong but I doubt CA mentioned the smell of the car again to LE when they arrived.

In the 3rd call she made the commnet about the smell and the officers showed up during that call.

Dispatch relays all the information to the responding officers so they should know exactly what is going on.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2424494&postcount=15"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Revisiting the 911 Calls of 7-15-08[/ame]


ETA: I cannot even imagine that dispatch did not pass that information along to the repsonding officers. It is a pretty critical piece of information. I think they type it all into a central computer system and i gotta beleive that info is transmitted somewhere. The officers need to know what dispatch knows.

 

[RubyB]

Something to Ponder:

Pretend for a moment that on 7/15, Caylee was perfectly safe with a babysitter, and that the reason Casey refused to take Cindy to pick up Caylee right that moment was because Casey resented being hunted down at Tony's and ignominously forced to leave, just because Cindy was angry at being deceived and she wanted to see Caylee right that minute.

Based on the above, how would you feel about Cindy's words and actions from the moment she contacted Amy until just BEFORE Cindy heard KC tell Lee in the bedroom that she hadn't seen Caylee in 31 days? (At which point she made the 911 call)

I have a problem getting into that head space and here's why. KC was already in a heap of trouble unrelated to Caylee being missing by the time CA got to her on 7/15. CA had been lied to and pretty much jerked around over the course of the last month. We know about stolen gas cans, the business trip to Tampa and the ensuing car accident, the "we're in Jacksonville and having a great time!" and the cat & mouse w/Lee stories. I would also add that although it was said a long time ago and forgotten by most, CA had told KC's former friend & neighbor, Britnee (sp?), that KC was luring her out of the house w/promises of seeing Caylee so she could go in and retrieve some of her things. Since G&C had just deposited their stimulus check before having to pay upwards of $500 to get the Pontiac out, I'm betting that CA was hotter than Hades and hip to KC and her antics by that time. I am of the opinion that CA had every right to show up @ Tone's and drag her out by the scruff of her neck. KC had no right to any moral indignation after what she'd been putting everyone through. To pretend your scenario I'd have to give KC the benefit of the doubt on all that went before, and I can't go there.

To relate that to this topic, there are 150 posts here filled with brain-wracking and suspicion of Cindy, and I'm wondering how much of that is due to her belligerant, overbearing treatment of Casey, including calling the cops, etc., when Cindy apparently didn't imagine Caylee had come to any harm.

In other words, are we subliminally thinking Cindy's behavior was so off-the-charts that she must surely have figured Caylee was missing or dead?

I'm thinking CA probably thought that Caylee was with a sitter of some sort and KC was being a spiteful b by not producing her. I don't think CA was capable of putting together in her head the smell and KC's unwillingness to produce Caylee at that time. CA had suddenly lost the upper hand in all things CMA. Perhaps she thought that by calling LE she could simultaneously get KC to produce Caylee and also get charges pressed for all the theft that had been going on. You know she was hoppin' mad about the whole car situation & catching KC in all those lies!! It was suggested by another poster somewhere (sorry I can't credit you) that that may have been CA's first steps in an attempt to have Caylee's custody status changed. That may well have been CA's frame of mind when she started this ball rolling; she was trying to get the upper hand back by finally forcing KC to deal with the consequences of her actions. IDK, but it makes sense to me.

Re-reading this, I'm not sure it's going to lead to any new insights among us whatsoever, but I'll post it here anyway, in case it might. :blowkiss:

I don't have any new insights but I feel compelled to share my opinions on CA's behavior. I'm not one to bag on CA for the things she has said & done. FWIW, I believe that there was a blow out w/KC & CA on the night of 6/15. I don't think it was about stealing money from her GP's account though, because that was water under the bridge at that point. I think it was more so a confrontation about KC's overall irresponsibility, lack of accountability and CA's frustration with it all. I'm sure that CA feels very guilty about it now and it causes her to behave in bizarre ways.

It's been said, "Your truth is your reality". She's got her own truth and her own reality, and I can live with that. I can't fault her because her mind didn't immediately go where LE's did. I admit that it's frucshtrating to witness her attempts to adjust the general public's reality, but whatever. The only thing that I hold CA responsible for is emasculating GA, and to some degree LA, as they too are entitled to their own realities. C has a lot of problems to deal with. But they're her personal problems. However she decides to compartmentalizes things in her mind is fine by me. You couldn't pay me to walk a mile in her shoes. Sometimes I just give my head a shake and mutter to myself "There, but for the grace of God, go I".

And back atcha :blowkiss:

 

[Bee Charmer]

If the anthonys hadn't connected the odor of decomposition in the trunk to the disappearance of Caylee, then why did they search under the playhouse and other places in their backyard?

Also, why did they clean the trunk and wash certain items from it?

IMO these parents knew Caylee was dead when they got that car.

 

[ZsaZsa]

As soon as we learned about the fight, which Cindy denies happened, we had the motive. The mere fact that Cindy denies the fight ever happened, means it plays a pivotal role, providing the catalyst for all that happened afterward..............Casey's rage which led to Caylee's death.

On July 3rd, Cindy knew that fight was what drove Casey to leave home taking Caylee with her. At that point, she thought that Casey was only punishing her by not letting her see or talk to Caylee. Cindy didn't know that Casey had taken Caylee away from Cindy forever.

From start to finish this has all been about Casey's hatred and absolute contempt for her mother. Cindy has not and could never be expected to understand that, so she rationalizes all KC's actions. This is far more about Cindy's arrogance and her 'martyrdom' than anything KC felt about Caylee. This was all for revenge..
At the first mention that her grand-daughter had been 'kidnapped' CA was just full of adrenaline and that brought about the final phone call. Once the adrenaline had worn off she understood the full implications of the smell in the car, but it was too late....

 

[Leila]

This was a very hotly debated issue at the time. The responding officers seem to pay it no mind. They were coming in the door as Cindy was telling dispatch the car smelled, so imo all that info gets to the officers.
It has never made sense to me that they had a missing child report, a car that smelled like a dead body and they didn't seal off the car. rather they picked it up many many hours later the next day. That is like leaving a crime scene open to anyone to walk through it.
I thought that perhaps they didn't smell it at all. but there was testimony in the bond hearing that they did smell the odor coming from the car. So,coupled with the fact that Cindy reported it in the 911 call I can not understand why, if it was so bad, it wasn't a priority issue.

I've wondered why the car wasn't impounded right away, the night of July 15th, by the responding officers. The only explanation I could come up with is that the dispatcher didn't relay the entire conversation with Cindy to the responding officers. She may have only given them the address and the fact that there's a missing two-year-old child.

But, that said, certainly during the course of interviewing all parties - George, Cindy, Lee, and Casey - someone must have told the officers about the sequence of events - getting a notice from the impound yard, picking up the car, and how terrible it smelled.

So, there's a lot of questions......................

Did Cindy tone it down and just say it smelled instead of saying it smelled like a dead body?

We know the garage door was open for ventilation earlier, right after the car was brought home, but was the garage door open or shut when LE arrived?

Did any of the officers inspect the car?

And one question I'd really like the answer to.......during all the time the police escorted Casey to the Sawgrass apartments, Universal, and other places, did anyone ever ask her why her car smelled so bad?

 

[JBean]

I've wondered why the car wasn't impounded right away, the night of July 15th, by the responding officers. The only explanation I could come up with is that the dispatcher didn't relay the entire conversation with Cindy to the responding officers. She may have only given them the address and the fact that there's a missing two-year-old child.

But, that said, certainly during the course of interviewing all parties - George, Cindy, Lee, and Casey - someone must have told the officers about the sequence of events - getting a notice from the impound yard, picking up the car, and how terrible it smelled.

So, there's a lot of questions......................

Did Cindy tone it down and just say it smelled instead of saying it smelled like a dead body?

We know the garage door was open for ventilation earlier, right after the car was brought home, but was the garage door open or shut when LE arrived?

Did any of the officers inspect the car?

And one question I'd really like the answer to.......during all the time the police escorted Casey to the Sawgrass apartments, Universal, and other places, did anyone ever ask her why her car smelled so bad?

She was crying about the smell less than 2 minutes before the officers walked in. This is all in one breath and I would be surprised if she didn;t repeat everything to the officers as they walked in because Cindy does repeat.
If dispatch is not relaying to the officers what they know, that is a problem. So either way i think someone blew it. They walk in with the mom saying she handed her kid over 31 days ago didn;t tell anyone, the grandma is crying about a dead body smell and they don't check it out?

It seems like no one even noticed the smell and the whole thing was almost an afterthought.

 

[RR0004]

So that would mean in the 30 seconds between CA hanging up the phone with the dispatcher that she told the car smelled like a dead body and the officers walking in, the car didn't smell anymore?
Personally I think the repsonding officers missed it and the detectvies picked up on it. JMHO of course. but considering CA told them about it, I still don't get it.
A dead body smell would perhaps indicate a crime scene and I gotta believe they can seal it off.
I also think that if they asked CA and GA for the car at that moment to help find their grandchild they would have handed it right over. but we will never know.

Could it be that the car was in the possession of the Anthony's and not Casey? I would imagine it took a few hours to sort out who were the criminals in this mix. JMO

 

[Steely Dan]

I've wondered why the car wasn't impounded right away, the night of July 15th, by the responding officers. The only explanation I could come up with is that the dispatcher didn't relay the entire conversation with Cindy to the responding officers. She may have only given them the address and the fact that there's a missing two-year-old child.

But, that said, certainly during the course of interviewing all parties - George, Cindy, Lee, and Casey - someone must have told the officers about the sequence of events - getting a notice from the impound yard, picking up the car, and how terrible it smelled.

So, there's a lot of questions......................

Did Cindy tone it down and just say it smelled instead of saying it smelled like a dead body?

We know the garage door was open for ventilation earlier, right after the car was brought home, but was the garage door open or shut when LE arrived?

Did any of the officers inspect the car?

And one question I'd really like the answer to.......during all the time the police escorted Casey to the Sawgrass apartments, Universal, and other places, did anyone ever ask her why her car smelled so bad?

I never thought of that. Good question. I'm thinking they didn't because that would've been released by now.

 

[Bee Charmer]

She was crying about the smell less than 2 minutes before the officers walked in. This is all in one breath and I would be surprised if she didn;t repeat everything to the officers as they walked in because Cindy does repeat.
If dispatch is not relaying to the officers what they know, that is a problem. So either way i think someone blew it. They walk in with the mom saying she handed her kid over 31 days ago didn;t tell anyone, the grandma is crying about a dead body smell and they don't check it out?

It seems like no one even noticed the smell and the whole thing was almost an afterthought.

I don't recall reading any reports by the investigating first responders, do you? Other then the arrest report. I am looking forward to hearing the testimony of the first LE on the scene and bet all of them mention the smell in that garage.

As for not impounding the car immediately, IMO they did. LE was at that home all night, it takes time to get a search warrant and I believe they got one as soon as they could and took the car away for processing.