Revisit - Did CA/GA cover up 7-16-08

[CitizenKim]

This was a very hotly debated issue at the time. The responding officers seem to pay it no mind. They were coming in the door as Cindy was telling dispatch the car smelled, so imo all that info gets to the officers.
It has never made sense to me that they had a missing child report, a car that smelled like a dead body and they didn't seal off the car. rather they picked it up many many hours later the next day. That is like leaving a crimhttp://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/woohoo.gife scene open to anyone to walk through it.
I thought that perhaps they didn't smell it at all. but there was testimony in the bond hearing that they did smell the odor coming from the car. So,coupled with the fact that Cindy reported it in the 911 call I can not understand why, if it was so bad, it wasn't a priority issue.

I know and I hate to armchair quarterback but...it's troubling for sure. Thankfully the brain trust on the Anthony side haven't been hammering that one home. I would be hitting that point constantly. Though it actually pains me to say it - Yea Jose! :woohoo:

 

[CitizenKim]

I tried, but I can't even answer this question. To me it is the most baffling moment of the whole case. When did Cindy shift from denial to action? The 911 call was genuine, imo. But the cleaning of the car, pants, knife, possible carseat switch, possible doll switch.. all before the 911 call, leaves me dumbfounded. I do however, think she was clearly in action once Casey was hauled off to jail, and has stayed in action. I also think that it's a little more about saving her own face than Casey's butt. She is quite a case study, that's for sure.

I must have missed info about the car seat and doll switch. I tried (unsuccessfully) to un-Casey my life for a while.

Can anyone help w/a link or explanation? Why is there speculation that Cindy did that? NOT that I would put it past her but I'm just curious as to where/why this theory got started.

 

[lizzysf]

It seems pretty clear now that Cindy started protecting Casey sometime after the 911 call and before LE picked up the car from their garage. She already had knew it was likely Caylee was dead, but had hope she wasn't.... (Still in shock). I think the truth sunk in for Cindy after Casey's tour w/ LE to Sawgrass, Universal etc. She avoided her emotional response to Caylee's death and directed her focus on saving Casey. It became clear she was about to lose both...and also her own image of the perfect mother, perfect daughter/family, which is a fantasy Cindy clings very tightly to.

 

[CuriousTwo]

I must have missed info about the car seat and doll switch. I tried (unsuccessfully) to un-Casey my life for a while.

Can anyone help w/a link or explanation? Why is there speculation that Cindy did that? NOT that I would put it past her but I'm just curious as to where/why this theory got started.

I don't think there's a link. I believe it's just speculation. CA admitted to spraying the car seat with Febreze and to wiping the doll's face.

 

[RR0004]

I don't recall reading any reports by the investigating first responders, do you? Other then the arrest report. I am looking forward to hearing the testimony of the first LE on the scene and bet all of them mention the smell in that garage.

As for not impounding the car immediately, IMO they did. LE was at that home all night, it takes time to get a search warrant and I believe they got one as soon as they could and took the car away for processing.

Besides, IMVHO, the "damage" had already been done, KWIM?

 

[Daylight/1257]

Regarding officers not impounding the vehicle that night, I don't think it was a slipup on their part.

Sometimes restraint has big dividends.

I suspect they had surveillance on the house that night to see if KC would get in the car and lead them to Caylee. At this point, they don't know who is dead. It didn't work this time, but it would be the better investigation technique.

 

[Just Jayla]

I must have missed info about the car seat and doll switch. I tried (unsuccessfully) to un-Casey my life for a while.

Can anyone help w/a link or explanation? Why is there speculation that Cindy did that? NOT that I would put it past her but I'm just curious as to where/why this theory got started.

We started speculating on the carseat first, it was noted that CA told LE she had purchased a black and white carseat for Caylee to use in KC's car, and an Eddie Bauer brown/black or grey/black one that she (CA) used in her truck.
However, photos of Caylee in KC's car show her in the one CA described using in her own truck, and the black & white one was never noted on any evidence lists. Just odd but might mean nothing-There are also pictures that may show two different car seats, one is evidence, one is in a picture with Caylee in the seat, in KC's car.

Then, I noticed that the doll in the exhibits presented at CA's depo had flapping, lifelike eyelids-This is the one CA called "Mama". Again, though, recent photos of Caylee show her with a doll that had eyes molded shut, like it was sleeping, and there are no pictures that I have seen of Caylee with the doll from the exhibit. This was supposed to be her favorite doll, yet the recent (she looked to be 2 years old) pictures of her clutching her doll are not pics of the doll the state now has.

It is only speculation, but CA has failed to come up with items for LE that she has talked about having-For instance, in the last depo, she said that an attorney drew up paperwork giving custody of Caylee to the A's, should something happen to KC. As we noted here in the legal thread, this could not have been done without the attorney asking the A's to make an effort to find the biological father first before they stripped him of his rights. You can't just write a guy off without his knowledge. In Virginia, for example, the parent has to be MIA for at least five years before the court will consider calling it an abandonment. So, LE did not believe any attorney would not at least ask about contacting the bio-dad, but CA kept insisting the attorney did not. LE asked her to bring the paperwork from the atty. to prove it, and she was supposed to bring it to the 2nd day of deposition, but we did not see it in the entered exhibits or evidence. She has a track records of lying about various objects involved in this case.

ETA to backup my bolded asertion-The Winnie the Pooh blanket that she knew was missing but did not report to police.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

It seems pretty clear now that Cindy started protecting Casey sometime after the 911 call and before LE picked up the car from their garage. She already had knew it was likely Caylee was dead, but had hope she wasn't.... (Still in shock). I think the truth sunk in for Cindy after Casey's tour w/ LE to Sawgrass, Universal etc. She avoided her emotional response to Caylee's death and directed her focus on saving Casey. It became clear she was about to lose both...and also her own image of the perfect mother, perfect daughter/family, which is a fantasy Cindy clings very tightly to.

I'm going to go look for the text KC sent to M. Hawkins (I believe) that said I already told my mom and brother - I would like to see when it was sent, that is, if it was after July 15 or before and at what time.

Wish me luck.

 

[Micheline]

Could it be that the car was in the possession of the Anthony's and not Casey? I would imagine it took a few hours to sort out who were the criminals in this mix. JMO

Was the car not in the garage with the battery taken out of it?
Is it doable to tow a car out of a garage?

They would also need a search warrant, not sure if they had taken the car because the Anthony's volunteered it, that any evidence found in it without following the formal protocols would be usable in court.

 

[JBean]

If you listen to the testimony of Yuri melich at the bond hearing, he says that they seized the car with George and Cindy Anthony's permission and that GA signed an affadavit allowing them to do so. the purpose was to assist in the investigation and look for information regarding Caylee. He also said it wasn't until after they checked out KC's stories did he remember that someone said something about a smell in a car. So he went back and asked for it.
Like I said, it still sounds like an afterthought to me and YM seems to confirm that at the bond hearing.


The SA confirms that the Anthony's were totally cooperative and allowed them to look at the car with their complete permission.So,imo if they had asked for it at the beginning, GA and CA would have handed it right over.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I believe that Cindy had been "in cover up mode" for Casey even before Casey ever (didn't?) graduate from high school. I think she panicked and lost her ever present "control" during her last 911 call. I think she was in cover up (although she might not have know what for) from the moment they brought the car home until today. I think she just had one momentary slip with her third call and has been trying to make up for it ever since.

 

[lizzysf]

I believe that Cindy had been "in cover up mode" for Casey even before Casey ever (didn't?) graduate from high school. I think she panicked and lost her ever present "control" during her last 911 call. I think she was in cover up (although she might not have know what for) from the moment they brought the car home until today. I think she just had one momentary slip with her third call and has been trying to make up for it ever since.

I agree that she has been in the coverup mode with Casey for a long time....probably her whole life..from little things to big things. It is mind boggling how this pair of grandparents could skip right over the overwhelming grief and anger most people would feel and go straight to work with straight faces to save Casey.
I guess they just displaced the anger towards everyone else to be able to do it. I am reviewing old interviews lately. As far as rapid cover-up mode goes..here's another. 7/20/08. These people are completely disturbed. Watch how labile Cindy is.. fake tears to powerful speeches in seconds.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GJTZuuzOus"]YouTube - Caylee Anthony's Grandparents ask for help[/ame]

 

[Just Jayla]

I agree that she has been in the coverup mode with Casey for a long time....probably her whole life..from little things to big things. It is mind boggling how this pair of grandparents could skip right over the overwhelming grief and anger most people would feel and go straight to work with straight faces to save Casey.
I guess they just displaced the anger towards everyone else to be able to do it. I am reviewing old interviews lately. As far as rapid cover-up mode goes..here's another. 7/20/08. These people are completely disturbed. Watch how labile Cindy is.. fake tears to powerful speeches in seconds.
YouTube - Caylee Anthony's Grandparents ask for help

This just makes me angry-What the hell was stopping her from going door to door on day 31? Unbelievable, the nerve...

 

[Just Jayla]

I agree that she has been in the coverup mode with Casey for a long time....probably her whole life..from little things to big things. It is mind boggling how this pair of grandparents could skip right over the overwhelming grief and anger most people would feel and go straight to work with straight faces to save Casey.
I guess they just displaced the anger towards everyone else to be able to do it. I am reviewing old interviews lately. As far as rapid cover-up mode goes..here's another. 7/20/08. These people are completely disturbed. Watch how labile Cindy is.. fake tears to powerful speeches in seconds.
YouTube - Caylee Anthony's Grandparents ask for help

Here's what I heard from CA.....I, I, I, I, I and oh yeah, Caylee-And we will give you another interview to pay me for!?! And she can't shut up long enough for GA to say what's on his mind without interrupting him-yuck.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I'm going to go look for the text KC sent to M. Hawkins (I believe) that said I already told my mom and brother - I would like to see when it was sent, that is, if it was after July 15 or before and at what time.

Wish me luck.

Quoting myself so I will make sense - all I could find regarding the above is a note I took early in the case from a MySpace message (not a text msg). I thought if we knew the date of the message (which I don't), it may point to the date that CA found out whatever she found out. I believe MH is called Marky-Mark and may be Annie's relative.

Maybe someone else saved early MySpace postings and would have this information?

 

[Leila]

I agree that she has been in the coverup mode with Casey for a long time....probably her whole life..from little things to big things. It is mind boggling how this pair of grandparents could skip right over the overwhelming grief and anger most people would feel and go straight to work with straight faces to save Casey.
I guess they just displaced the anger towards everyone else to be able to do it. I am reviewing old interviews lately. As far as rapid cover-up mode goes..here's another. 7/20/08. These people are completely disturbed. Watch how labile Cindy is.. fake tears to powerful speeches in seconds.
YouTube - Caylee Anthony's Grandparents ask for help

Thanks for posting that interview from July 20, 2008. I remember those first few interviews........the one on Friday, July 18th, was followed by the interview with Geraldo on the 19th - Cindy and JB sitting outside on the driveway with Geraldo, then this interview on the 20th, and on the 21st Cindy was interviewed for the first time by Greta Van Susteran - Cindy sitting in a chair in her living room and very nervous.

It's these first interviews done within the first week after the events of July 15, 2008 that told us that something was very wrong. In none of the interviews was there a direct plea to the kidnapper to bring Caylee home. If the Anthonys truly believed that someone took Caylee, why no heartfelt plea to please bring Caylee home?

They knew Caylee was dead, and went with a "she's missing" campaign to distract from LE's investigation.

I think the Anthonys embarked on the "she's missing" campaign immediately to distract from the investigation by LE and to keep the truth from being exposed. Cindy refused to give Tim Miller an article of Caylee's to give the dogs her scent. She was doing anything she could to impede the investigation. That's what this has all been about..........16 months of a campaign to prevent the truth from being found out.

 

[PeteyGirl]

I doubt this is a new thought . . . but has anyone here read "People of the Lie" by M. Scott Peck? The Anthony's are behaving in a classical "evil" way, right out of this book. Evil seeks to hide itself from the light and the only "rule" the Anthony's obey in seeking to hide this "evil" in their midst is to do whatever it takes to hide it. There is no ceiling or basement or self limiting to their willingness to hide.

While it blurts out, oozes out and becomes more obvious to everyone else but THEM. It is fascinating to watch their machinations, hard to look away like we are watching a trainwreck that is taking years to finally stop.

If the senior Anthony's weren't so "evil" themselves, this wouldn't be such a great show. If they were grieving grandparents, and grieving the "loss" of their daughter's humanity, I doubt I'd be as glued to this case as I am (it's why I joined WS ).

 

[OneLostGrl]

You hit the nail on the head with me. CA's behavior is why I began to distrust/blame/imagine/doubt her in the first place. She seems so wacky and KC said she fears her the most. Now, I know the odds are that KC is ultimately to blame for Caylee's death, but I can't help but to distrust Cindy. She had something to do with Caylee's disappearance even if she is not directly the cause of what happened to Caylee. I don't trust her one bit. She is never honest about anything.

Noone as controlling as she is would rest contently while two people, who have always lived with her, just left never to show their faces again for a month. And we know she didn't rest contently but she pretends that she did.

Why wouldn't she say "I was a wreck when KC and Caylee were gone". As mothers, we would relate to that. Not all the pretending that it didn't bother her one bit. That's why I know there is more to the story. IMO of course.

Because her thinking is so flawed she would be afraid to admit such a thing as it may appear abnormal (controlling) to others. It's best to play it safe and deny, deflect, lie and blame. kwim?
Kinda like poor George saying he walked Casey to school or waited down the road to be sure she was safe her entire friggin' life and a minute later admitted he had a job during the day so couldn't be there to do those things.

They know what good parents should do.. they know how to act, what people want to hear.. what "looks" good. But like anyone else they have their own perception about what good parenting is. George thinks it's important to be there for and with your kids while encouraging them to work for things they want.. Cindy apparently thinks parents should let go, encourage their children to grow up and move on with their life.. while allowing them the space to make their own mistakes. So sounding worried would make Cindy feel that others would think she's a bad mother.

(eta- to clarify, I don't think these are their values, I'm going by what they told LE their values where)

 

[OneLostGrl]

I doubt this is a new thought . . . but has anyone here read "People of the Lie" by M. Scott Peck? The Anthony's are behaving in a classical "evil" way, right out of this book. Evil seeks to hide itself from the light and the only "rule" the Anthony's obey in seeking to hide this "evil" in their midst is to do whatever it takes to hide it. There is no ceiling or basement or self limiting to their willingness to hide.

While it blurts out, oozes out and becomes more obvious to everyone else but THEM. It is fascinating to watch their machinations, hard to look away like we are watching a trainwreck that is taking years to finally stop.

If the senior Anthony's weren't so "evil" themselves, this wouldn't be such a great show. If they were grieving grandparents, and grieving the "loss" of their daughter's humanity, I doubt I'd be as glued to this case as I am (it's why I joined WS ).

While I adore little Caylee, I know if not for this "family" being this way, I would not be following this case as I am. The only reason I even looked it up on-line was because of the call from jail, the grin in Cindy's voice as she spoke to her "cold" or unfeeling daughter who was calling from jail.

These people live next door (or in the next room) to every one of us. We imagine evil is the only thing that can harm our children but often times it is only other peoples silence that destroys lives.

 

[OneLostGrl]

cindy went fabreeze crazy for a bit as well..

human decomp is a very sweet smell *disgustingly sweet* and some fabreeze scents can be very sweet as well.

just a thought.

..I dunno I have such a hard time with this becuase I always come back to this is the same woman who choked her daughter for stealing from gramma a month earlier. That woman, IMO would have hunted Casey down and gone crazy if she thought she's killed Caylee... that woman.