Revisit - Did CA/GA cover up 7-16-08

[OneLostGrl]

She spoke before she thought.. I believe she first gave June 9th as in her mind, that is when the trouble started and she was not seeing Caylee much.. She later confirmed the 15th as the official day she went "missing" in order to cover up the issues going on the previous week which led to the blow up fight (which she also denies).. She is trying to hide the motive by not mentioning June 9-15 issues. Of course, this is only my theory.

:waitasec: Wasn't it you who just a couple days ago said nothing Cindy says is "mind numbing" or "irrelevant".. to "look for hidden agenda in everything she says" in the car seat thread? I really doubt Cindy spoke before she thought- it's clear almost everything she says is well thought out. Even the 911 call, she claims she knew just what to say to get LE there faster (the stink in the car.. the baby who's MIA).

She comes prepared (isn't that what she herself proudly told ZG's lawyer?) quite prepared! Cindy doesn't speak before she thinks very often but when she does it comes out sounding like "I'm a decomp nurse" or "When Casey lies she always tells me the truth" or "You won't be getting any more exclusives from me Ms. newscaster".. or "You maggots, you leaches" or "It smells like there has been a dead body in the damn car". Then she quickly covers it up and deny's saying it. For whatever reason Cindy apparently wanted LE to think Caylee had been gone longer than she was. It could be that maybe she thought it had to be a "month" before they could report a missing person even if they are with their parent or whatever. It could have been innocent like that but I doubt it. When the pictures of fathers day showed up she wasn't happy, she was pissed! Remember she told LE if they "bothered" her parents about the date of the visit etc she would not cooperate with their investigation any longer.



Cindy doesn't "slip". ITA with you in this [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4372672&postcount=286"]post[/ame]

 

[OneLostGrl]

huh? To me it makes her the last one on record (outside the A family) to have been in charge of Caylee.

Noone else claims to have seen Caylee since the 15th (other than the new guy from the computer store).

I can't figure out why this doesn't bother anybody besides me. :crazy:
Does everyone trust CA that much?

Bold is mine. Trust Cindy? he!! no!

 

[lizzysf]

:waitasec: Wasn't it you who just a couple days ago said nothing Cindy says is "mind numbing" or "irrelevant".. to "look for hidden agenda in everything she says" in the car seat thread? I really doubt Cindy spoke before she thought- it's clear almost everything she says is well thought out. Even the 911 call, she claims she knew just what to say to get LE there faster (the stink in the car.. the baby who's MIA).

She comes prepared (isn't that what she herself proudly told ZG's lawyer?) quite prepared! Cindy doesn't speak before she thinks very often but when she does it comes out sounding like "I'm a decomp nurse" or "When Casey lies she always tells me the truth" or "You won't be getting any more exclusives from me Ms. newscaster".. or "You maggots, you leaches" or "It smells like there has been a dead body in the damn car". Then she quickly covers it up and deny's saying it. For whatever reason Cindy apparently wanted LE to think Caylee had been gone longer than she was. It could be that maybe she thought it had to be a "month" before they could report a missing person even if they are with their parent or whatever. It could have been innocent like that but I doubt it. When the pictures of fathers day showed up she wasn't happy, she was pissed! Remember she told LE if they "bothered" her parents about the date of the visit etc she would not cooperate with their investigation any longer.



Cindy doesn't "slip". ITA with you in this post

When Cindy blurted out the 9th..it was way too early in the game to realize what was to unfold thereafter. There was no forethought at that time (like about the time when LE came?)...just a spontaneous answer. The official date Caylee was last seen was the 15th.. but in Cindy's mind, troubles started around the 9th, and she blurted before she had a chance to think that answer through. When LE straightened her out on Fathers day being the 15th, it was easy for her to say, oh yea, I made a mistake.. (when in truth, the troubles started on the 9th and that's why that date came to her first)

 

[darnudes]

I think Cindy was elated that the video showed the 15th and she could change the date from the 9th to the 15th. She knew she screwed up when she said the 9th (as far as for covering up issues going on that week leading to the big fight)...the change to the 15th worked in her favor... She was touting it all over the news.. it was the 15th! I have proof! So focus on the 9th thru the 14th fell by the wayside.. she dodged a bullet she shot at herself, thanks to LE and the video.

Couldn't agree with you more. The focus should be the 9th - 15th. In my opinion those are the really important dates to look at if we evey want to find out the why. There was a disturbing lead up to Caylee's death that we don't have all the answers to.

 

[lizzysf]

Couldn't agree with you more. The focus should be the 9th - 15th. In my opinion those are the really important dates to look at if we evey want to find out the why. There was a disturbing lead up to Caylee's death that we don't have all the answers to.

I agree.. cause and result wasn't all on the 15th-16th.. something was brewing much before then that ended in murder.

 

[OneLostGrl]

When Cindy blurted out the 9th..it was way too early in the game to realize what was to unfold thereafter. There was no forethought at that time (like about the time when LE came?)...just a spontaneous answer. The official date Caylee was last seen was the 15th.. but in Cindy's mind, troubles started around the 9th, and she blurted before she had a chance to think that answer through. When LE straightened her out on Fathers day being the 15th, it was easy for her to say, oh yea, I made a mistake.. (when in truth, the troubles started on the 9th and that's why that date came to her first)

I disagree. I don't think Cindy just blurted it out by accident but I'm cool with agreeing to disagree.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I agree.. cause and result wasn't all on the 15th-16th.. something was brewing much before then that ended in murder.

Well that's the point, that's what I'm saying.. she didn't want them to focus on that time frame so she flipped her dates around in her statement knowingly.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

It will be interesting to hear the details that come out about June 9th-15.. Who Casey and Caylee stayed overnight with during days in that week...Tony, Lee's roomate may know (since Lee won't tell if she was there), Casey's friends.. I think some turmoil will be uncovered explaining why June 9th signified the beginning of the end for Caylee in Cindy's mind. I think Casey was pulling Caylee away from Cindy to punish her and to rebel against the control already, which led up to the big fight on the 15th.

Up in the Case Resource Links threads there is a thread covering everyday that lists the activities/testimonies for that day.

The night of June 9, for instance, KC and Caylee stayed at RM's. There is testimony to support this from RM and AH. The night of June 10 she pings near the A's. On June 13, KC was at Fusion with TL for the Hip-Hop showcase. It was never conclusively determined where Caylee was during this time. TL says KC spent that night with him but she pings other places.

It is unclear where KC was on the 11th, 12th, 14th. She could have been at TL's while Caylee was at home. KC could have been home with Caylee. Not much info is available for these nights but I didn't spend a lot of time reviewing the threads so I may have missed something.

CA had her 50th B-day the first week of June. There is a thread where we talked alot about how maybe CA felt neglected because KC was heating up with TL and wanted to be away all the time thus leaving Caylee with CA but not showing CA any attention. This may have contributed to the mounting tension between CA and KC.

 

[JBean]

In the bond hearing Cindy says she thought she took caylee to see her dad on the last day of her vacation, June 8. Since she goes to see her father regularly I think that is reasonable so I'll still think the date mix up was just a date mix up.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

In the bond hearing Cindy says she thought she took caylee to see her dad on the last day of her vacation, June 8. Since she goes to see her father regularly I think that is reasonable so I'll still think the date mix up was just a date mix up.

Not me. CA would have returned to work for a week and then taken Caylee to Mr. Dora the following weekend on Father's Day. There were too many markers (B-day, week off of work, week back at work, Father's Day, etc.) for CA to mess that up. Plus she testified that they (she and GA) had gone to the beach the weekend that included June 8. She stated the wrong date purposefully imo.

 

[lizzysf]

Not me. CA would have returned to work for a week and then taken Caylee to Mr. Dora the following weekend on Father's Day. There were too many markers (B-day, week off of work, week back at work, Father's Day, etc.) for CA to mess that up. Plus she testified that they (she and GA) had gone to the beach the weekend that included June 8. She stated the wrong date purposefully imo.

But Casey said 31 days...if it was a plot to say the 9th..how could that work? Even though Casey agreed with her..I think it's because she went with whatever Cindy said.. The point in which Cindy had to give a date she last saw her was probably when LE arrived to her house. I don't think she was even plotting a cover up quite yet. She gave the answer that came to her mind first.. now the trigger for that recall may be just that she made a mistake about visiting her dad on the weekends, but I think it also could have been about when some troubles started with Casey regarding Caylee that were forefront in her mind.

 

[JBean]

Not me. CA would have returned to work for a week and then taken Caylee to Mr. Dora the following weekend on Father's Day. There were too many markers (B-day, week off of work, week back at work, Father's Day, etc.) for CA to mess that up. Plus she testified that they (she and GA) had gone to the beach the weekend that included June 8. She stated the wrong date purposefully imo.

backing it up a week would have made Casey look that much worse. Doesn't make any sense to me. She may have known it was Father's Day, but that doesn't mean she knew what date it fell on. I say that because I wouldn't have a clue of the date.

 

[Steely Dan]

LOL yea I can see it now

"The suspect is said to be a perfect 10. If you see anyone matching this description..."

 

[Woe.be.gone]

But Casey said 31 days...if it was a plot to say the 9th..how could that work? Even though Casey agreed with her..I think it's because she went with whatever Cindy said.. The point in which Cindy had to give a date she last saw her was probably when LE arrived to her house. I don't think she was even plotting a cover up quite yet. She gave the answer that came to her mind first.. now the trigger for that recall may be just that she made a mistake about visiting her dad on the weekends, but I think it also could have been about when some troubles started with Casey regarding Caylee that were forefront in her mind.

Yes, 31 days. If you back up from July 15 and count back 31 days you land on June 15. If you don't count July 15 (because that day isn't over with) and count back beginning with July 14 as day one, you land on June 14. This is what first clued me that CA was trying to get the emphasis off of her. KC's 31 days never included June 16 at all. She was specific as to when she last saw Caylee - had been counting the days.

CA writes the script and peeps go with what she says imo.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

backing it up a week would have made Casey look that much worse. Doesn't make any sense to me. She may have known it was Father's Day, but that doesn't mean she knew what date it fell on. I say that because I wouldn't have a clue of the date.

If the A's themselves would have corrected the day/date let's say by the next day, I would have thought nothing of it. Sure, if it had been a true emergency in that moment, anyone could mess up dates and become confused. It is my belief that CA knew something had happened prior to July 15 and THEY were caught because of the Pontiac. CA had had several hours between picking up their reeking car to ponder the events of the past month or so. I can't believe that she would not remember that she had seen Caylee the week after her vacation ended. I just can't. I'm glad the pictures/video exist from June 15 and that there was early testimony that people had been with Caylee along with KC after June 8 (TL, RM, AH, TL's friends, Kristina, etc.).

It's a stance I've arrived at - the only way I can make sense out of the nonsense. We'll see, I hope.

P.S. It is my belief that CA was trying to remove herself from the weekend of June 14 and 15 - probably has nothing to do with KC as to why CA reported the false date.

 

[darnudes]

Up in the Case Resource Links threads there is a thread covering everyday that lists the activities/testimonies for that day.

The night of June 9, for instance, KC and Caylee stayed at RM's. There is testimony to support this from RM and AH. The night of June 10 she pings near the A's. On June 13, KC was at Fusion with TL for the Hip-Hop showcase. It was never conclusively determined where Caylee was during this time. TL says KC spent that night with him but she pings other places.

It is unclear where KC was on the 11th, 12th, 14th. She could have been at TL's while Caylee was at home. KC could have been home with Caylee. Not much info is available for these nights but I didn't spend a lot of time reviewing the threads so I may have missed something.

CA had her 50th B-day the first week of June. There is a thread where we talked alot about how maybe CA felt neglected because KC was heating up with TL and wanted to be away all the time thus leaving Caylee with CA but not showing CA any attention. This may have contributed to the mounting tension between CA and KC.

I've spent days trying to tie down where Caylee was on the night of the 13th of June. I have not been able to find a single statement clarifying where she was that night. The timeline the police focused on was centered around Casey for the most part when it should have included Caylee as well. Maybe the police have done this and we haven't seen it yet.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I've spent days trying to tie down where Caylee was on the night of the 13th of June. I have not been able to find a single statement clarifying where she was that night. The timeline the police focused on was centered around Casey for the most part when it should have included Caylee as well. Maybe the police have done this and we haven't seen it yet.

I remember there was discussion suggesting that Caylee may have been with a babysitter (like Kristina or somebody). TL said this is the first full night KC stayed over (after the Fusion outing) but the cell pings have her travelling around half the night. They may have been driving around, possibly even to pick up some recreational materials thus the pings may have nothing to do with Caylee's whereabouts at all.

If Caylee was not with Cindy, then why not? CA insists that KC could leave Caylee with her anytime she wasn't working. If KC was keeping Caylee from CA by the 13th (either because of a fight or because CA had put her foot down about providing child care around the clock), then Caylee could have been in danger under someone outside of the family's care. But we know that Caylee was okay on June 15 because of the video taken up in Mt. Dora on that day. I think Caylee was with CA and KC was doing her thing at Tony's. But do I have proof? No.

My opinion is that CA had her nose out of joint because she felt that KC was running around and leaving Caylee with her whenever without participating in family life along with CA and Caylee. CA had begun to feel used, alone and what fun was CA having? Yes, she loves Caylee but, afterall, Caylee was only two years old. It's tough looking after a two year old when you're fifty and have already put in a full day of work. I get that. KC is a spoiled girl who thinks everybody should do what she says and provide her life to her regardless of how that makes them feel. KC didn't care if CA was having any fun or receiving any special treatment. It was all about KC always. She did not take ultimate responsibility for Caylee because she didn't have to. I'm not even sure she was capable of it. The whole situation evolved into a huge mess with powerplays going back and forth. AND THEN IT HAPPENED. What happened?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

KC replied to Lee that 'maybe I'm a spiteful *****'. That is the comment that keeps me from believing that it was an accident that happened under CA's watch. Although it could have been. KC could have thrown that statement out there though for CA's benefit as to repeat words close to what had been said to her by CA. Follow? In other words, CA and KC had engaged in some name calling and accusations prior to Caylee's death that were similar in content to "spiteful" and "*****".

Why would KC say that comment about herself? Because she had been accused for so long and on and on about being less than and not this and not that and neglecting her duties, etc. She may have decided to prove CA's point. If CA spoke harsh words the last time she saw KC, her words would cause her to feel guilty/responsible and she would suffer remorse for the things she said to KC imo.

Why would KC bring Caylee to CA on Father's Day though if she was keeping Caylee from CA? That, I can't understand. It either was or it wasn't the case. I think Caylee was with CA.

 

[Micheline]

Yes, 31 days. If you back up from July 15 and count back 31 days you land on June 15. If you don't count July 15 (because that day isn't over with) and count back beginning with July 14 as day one, you land on June 14. This is what first clued me that CA was trying to get the emphasis off of her. KC's 31 days never included June 16 at all. She was specific as to when she last saw Caylee - had been counting the days.

CA writes the script and peeps go with what she says imo.

Casey was very specific about the 31 days, even when the woman on the phone made it "a month" she corrected her by again saying it had been 31 days.
If that was true and she had counted days, it means she never saw Caylee on June 16 or (if you don't count July 15) she did not see her on June 15 either.

I don't think there is any evidence either of Caylee and Casey being together on either day except for George seeing them leave on June 16 and the guy from the computer store who came forward a year later.

But then again, that is not possible, because the SMS contact between Casey and Cindy (which I assume is in possession of LE) would clearly show if Casey was pretending Caylee being alive to Cindy between June 15 and July 15. IMO

 

[Woe.be.gone]

well I have been saying all along that LE should have taken that car ASAP.

Even so, CA did the cleanup before she dialed the first 911. As soon as GA parked the Pontiac in the garage, CA began washing things and placing things on the freezer in the garage, etc. Who knows what all she did - she may have done something regarding carseats before she returned to her job which was before she went in search of KC. :waitasec:

1. Pick up abandoned smell of death car from towyard. Pay $500.00.
2. Drive home and thoroughly clean car and items within the car.
3. Go to work for remainder of the work day as if nothing too unusual is happening. Casually run circumstances by your co-workers. They recommend you call the Police. :waitasec::banghead: But you don't take their advice because you know there must be a reasonable explanation. :waitasec::banghead:
4. Call a friend of KC's to see if she knows where KC is staying.
5. Locate KC with AH's help. Your effort does not locate Caylee but you're not too concerned yet - must be a reasonable explanation yet to come. :crazy:
6. Call 911 to report a stollen car that is sitting in your garage.
7. Call 911 again to report a stollen car that is parked in your garage (stinking like a dead body but you don't mention this) while the person next to you hasn't an explanation as to why that would be the case. Not to panic - reasonable explanation around the next corner.
8. Return home where brother/son confronts KC about Caylee's location as you are not successful.
9. Call 911 to report your missing Granddaughter when you overhear KC say that she hasn't seen her for 31 days. Finally you panic as this comes as a huge surprise to you in that moment. You scream into the phone that the stollen car smells as if it had a dead body in it. It dawns on you that your Granddaughter has been kidnapped - those Bast*rds!
10. Begin searching for kidnappers and forget all about the car while you explain about the Pizza and dead squirrels. Oops, which is it? Pizza, Squirrels or our dead granddaughter? You choose pizza.

Okay.