Revisit - Did CA/GA cover up 7-16-08

[lizzysf]

While I adore little Caylee, I know if not for this "family" being this way, I would not be following this case as I am. The only reason I even looked it up on-line was because of the call from jail, the grin in Cindy's voice as she spoke to her "cold" or unfeeling daughter who was calling from jail.

These people live next door (or in the next room) to every one of us. We imagine evil is the only thing that can harm our children but often times it is only other peoples silence that destroys lives.

I agree. This family has toxic dynamics. I feel a hint of sympathy for Casey...the odds were really stacked against her. But in the end, she did commit a murder which deserves punishment. She was sane enough to make another choice. I do feel however, after watching this family for a year, that Cindy is the root cause of the tragedy that unfolded, while George is to blame for standing silent out of Cindy's way. I think when the jury sees Casey's motive was in direct relation to the control Cindy had over her...they will have some sympathy for Casey as well and not give her the DP. The SA will pound hard on Cindy to expose her true destructive behavior in the family...to illustrate why Casey did in fact have desperate motive and acted. The jury will hate Cindy. I hope she and George serve some jail time. It is well deserved on so many levels.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I have a problem getting into that head space and here's why. KC was already in a heap of trouble unrelated to Caylee being missing by the time CA got to her on 7/15. CA had been lied to and pretty much jerked around over the course of the last month. We know about stolen gas cans, the business trip to Tampa and the ensuing car accident, the "we're in Jacksonville and having a great time!" and the cat & mouse w/Lee stories. I would also add that although it was said a long time ago and forgotten by most, CA had told KC's former friend & neighbor, Britnee (sp?), that KC was luring her out of the house w/promises of seeing Caylee so she could go in and retrieve some of her things. Since G&C had just deposited their stimulus check before having to pay upwards of $500 to get the Pontiac out, I'm betting that CA was hotter than Hades and hip to KC and her antics by that time. I am of the opinion that CA had every right to show up @ Tone's and drag her out by the scruff of her neck. KC had no right to any moral indignation after what she'd been putting everyone through. To pretend your scenario I'd have to give KC the benefit of the doubt on all that went before, and I can't go there.



I'm thinking CA probably thought that Caylee was with a sitter of some sort and KC was being a spiteful b by not producing her. I don't think CA was capable of putting together in her head the smell and KC's unwillingness to produce Caylee at that time. CA had suddenly lost the upper hand in all things CMA. Perhaps she thought that by calling LE she could simultaneously get KC to produce Caylee and also get charges pressed for all the theft that had been going on. You know she was hoppin' mad about the whole car situation & catching KC in all those lies!! It was suggested by another poster somewhere (sorry I can't credit you) that that may have been CA's first steps in an attempt to have Caylee's custody status changed. That may well have been CA's frame of mind when she started this ball rolling; she was trying to get the upper hand back by finally forcing KC to deal with the consequences of her actions. IDK, but it makes sense to me.



I don't have any new insights but I feel compelled to share my opinions on CA's behavior. I'm not one to bag on CA for the things she has said & done. FWIW, I believe that there was a blow out w/KC & CA on the night of 6/15. I don't think it was about stealing money from her GP's account though, because that was water under the bridge at that point. I think it was more so a confrontation about KC's overall irresponsibility, lack of accountability and CA's frustration with it all. I'm sure that CA feels very guilty about it now and it causes her to behave in bizarre ways.

It's been said, "Your truth is your reality". She's got her own truth and her own reality, and I can live with that. I can't fault her because her mind didn't immediately go where LE's did. I admit that it's frucshtrating to witness her attempts to adjust the general public's reality, but whatever. The only thing that I hold CA responsible for is emasculating GA, and to some degree LA, as they too are entitled to their own realities. C has a lot of problems to deal with. But they're her personal problems. However she decides to compartmentalizes things in her mind is fine by me. You couldn't pay me to walk a mile in her shoes. Sometimes I just give my head a shake and mutter to myself "There, but for the grace of God, go I".

And back atcha :blowkiss:

bold is mine-

No, I'm sorry but they are not her own! They became her daughters and then her granddaughter paid for it.

She should just stfu.. if she actually loved her daughter she would just shut up. And on that note, if she really wants to "be there" for her daughter, the best way she could do that would be by facing reality and then loving her daughter REGARDLESS of what she's done!

 

[lizzysf]

..I dunno I have such a hard time with this becuase I always come back to this is the same woman who choked her daughter for stealing from gramma a month earlier. That woman, IMO would have hunted Casey down and gone crazy if she thought she's killed Caylee... that woman.

I am in doubt the fight was over Grandma's money. I think it was about Casey's behavior being a threat to Cindy's control over Caylee. I doubt Cindy would confront Casey on the money matter..it may rock the boat and Casey might leave with Caylee. Cindy enables Casey to avoid confrontation, which may result in her leaving with Caylee. I have a sneaking feeling that the real reason she gave June 9th to begin with was because, in a sense, it was true. I think there were some escalating issues with Casey actually confronting Cindy about the control and she left with Caylee June 9th and possibly intermittently throughout that week..only as far as Lee's, Tony's and wherever..but not home. She let Caylee go to Mt. Dora with Cindy...but afterwards had intended to take Caylee and leave again and the "big fight" erupted that evening of the 15th. I really think Cindy meant June 9th when she said it.. but not in the sense that it was the last time she saw Caylee officially..it was just when the absences from the home started. Something was brewing before June 15th that led up to the big fight and murder.

 

[debs]

Cindy is always more in control mode than cover up mode. Even in her August interview, she stated that she would be telling the investigators which way she felt "this needed to go."

She will control this mess, regardless. That is her imperative to herself.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Thanks for posting that interview from July 20, 2008. I remember those first few interviews........the one on Friday, July 18th, was followed by the interview with Geraldo on the 19th - Cindy and JB sitting outside on the driveway with Geraldo, then this interview on the 20th, and on the 21st Cindy was interviewed for the first time by Greta Van Susteran - Cindy sitting in a chair in her living room and very nervous.

It's these first interviews done within the first week after the events of July 15, 2008 that told us that something was very wrong. In none of the interviews was there a direct plea to the kidnapper to bring Caylee home. If the Anthonys truly believed that someone took Caylee, why no heartfelt plea to please bring Caylee home?

They knew Caylee was dead, and went with a "she's missing" campaign to distract from LE's investigation.

I think the Anthonys embarked on the "she's missing" campaign immediately to distract from the investigation by LE and to keep the truth from being exposed. Cindy refused to give Tim Miller an article of Caylee's to give the dogs her scent. She was doing anything she could to impede the investigation. That's what this has all been about..........16 months of a campaign to prevent the truth from being found out.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I doubt this is a new thought . . . but has anyone here read "People of the Lie" by M. Scott Peck? The Anthony's are behaving in a classical "evil" way, right out of this book. Evil seeks to hide itself from the light and the only "rule" the Anthony's obey in seeking to hide this "evil" in their midst is to do whatever it takes to hide it. There is no ceiling or basement or self limiting to their willingness to hide.

While it blurts out, oozes out and becomes more obvious to everyone else but THEM. It is fascinating to watch their machinations, hard to look away like we are watching a trainwreck that is taking years to finally stop.

If the senior Anthony's weren't so "evil" themselves, this wouldn't be such a great show. If they were grieving grandparents, and grieving the "loss" of their daughter's humanity, I doubt I'd be as glued to this case as I am (it's why I joined WS ).

I'll have to get the book - it sounds interesting - thanks for mentioning it.

The word "evil" throws people off because we think of "evil" as being obvious, for instance, Charles Manson or somebody like that. But, "evil" is possibly even more evil when disguised. That is how the Devil wants to spread evil - to take people down without them knowing what just happened to them. Creeping into one's psyche and soul with the hopes of squeezing the good out of you and ultimately society at large. We can see it (if we can) even with food consumption and drink happiness or suppression of freedom and in distortions of many kinds. That is why I believe in God. IMO the opposite of evil exists and who can deny evil?

Hope my words make sense - they do to me.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Because her thinking is so flawed she would be afraid to admit such a thing as it may appear abnormal (controlling) to others. It's best to play it safe and deny, deflect, lie and blame. kwim?
Kinda like poor George saying he walked Casey to school or waited down the road to be sure she was safe her entire friggin' life and a minute later admitted he had a job during the day so couldn't be there to do those things.

They know what good parents should do.. they know how to act, what people want to hear.. what "looks" good. But like anyone else they have their own perception about what good parenting is. George thinks it's important to be there for and with your kids while encouraging them to work for things they want.. Cindy apparently thinks parents should let go, encourage their children to grow up and move on with their life.. while allowing them the space to make their own mistakes. So sounding worried would make Cindy feel that others would think she's a bad mother.

(eta- to clarify, I don't think these are their values, I'm going by what they told LE their values where)

In other words, they are saying what they think the RIGHT answers are - not what really is/was. Most of us are hearing the dishonesty in all their b.s. I'd rather deal with an honest imperfect person than with them (dishonest imperfect people who claim they are perfect). They are exhausting.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

..I dunno I have such a hard time with this becuase I always come back to this is the same woman who choked her daughter for stealing from gramma a month earlier. That woman, IMO would have hunted Casey down and gone crazy if she thought she's killed Caylee... that woman.

So do you mean that you think that there must be more to the story?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I am in doubt the fight was over Grandma's money. I think it was about Casey's behavior being a threat to Cindy's control over Caylee. I doubt Cindy would confront Casey on the money matter..it may rock the boat and Casey might leave with Caylee. Cindy enables Casey to avoid confrontation, which may result in her leaving with Caylee. I have a sneaking feeling that the real reason she gave June 9th to begin with was because, in a sense, it was true. I think there were some escalating issues with Casey actually confronting Cindy about the control and she left with Caylee June 9th and possibly intermittently throughout that week..only as far as Lee's, Tony's and wherever..but not home. She let Caylee go to Mt. Dora with Cindy...but afterwards had intended to take Caylee and leave again and the "big fight" erupted that evening of the 15th. I really think Cindy meant June 9th when she said it.. but not in the sense that it was the last time she saw Caylee officially..it was just when the absences from the home started. Something was brewing before June 15th that led up to the big fight and murder.

I've thought on your above explanation too but then she was asked specifically "MISSING since when?" and not when did the trouble start. She made a big deal about there not being an Amber alert but thinks it's okay to post the wrong date Caylee was last seen.

Because of CA's controlling nature my belief remains that CA knew the exact day/date she last saw Caylee especially since she wrote that MySpace piece. She tried to deflect the date for some reason imo.

 

[lizzysf]

I've thought on your above explanation too but then she was asked specifically "MISSING since when?" and not when did the trouble start. She made a big deal about there not being an Amber alert but thinks it's okay to post the wrong date Caylee was last seen.

Because of CA's controlling nature my belief remains that CA knew the exact day/date she last saw Caylee especially since she wrote that MySpace piece. She tried to deflect the date for some reason imo.

She spoke before she thought.. I believe she first gave June 9th as in her mind, that is when the trouble started and she was not seeing Caylee much.. She later confirmed the 15th as the official day she went "missing" in order to cover up the issues going on the previous week which led to the blow up fight (which she also denies).. She is trying to hide the motive by not mentioning June 9-15 issues. Of course, this is only my theory.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

She spoke before she thought.. I believe she first gave June 9th as in her mind, that is when the trouble started and she was not seeing Caylee much.. She later confirmed the 15th as the official day she went "missing" in order to cover up the issues going on the previous week which led to the blow up fight (which she also denies).. She is trying to hide the motive by not mentioning June 9-15 issues. Of course, this is only my theory.

She only acknowledged the wrong date when LE approached her with the pictures of Caylee up in Mt. Dora that were taken June 15, 2008. You would think that between the four of them (the A's) someone would have remembered (looked at the calendar) the real date over the next 24 hours and called LE. As it was, all the posters had the June 9 date on them. I honestly don't think it was an honest mistake but we can agree to disagree. Doesn't mean I'm right either but I'm sticking to my belief that CA lied about the date which causes me to believe the coverup was already underway right then and there.

 

[lizzysf]

I think Cindy was elated that the video showed the 15th and she could change the date from the 9th to the 15th. She knew she screwed up when she said the 9th (as far as for covering up issues going on that week leading to the big fight)...the change to the 15th worked in her favor... She was touting it all over the news.. it was the 15th! I have proof! So focus on the 9th thru the 14th fell by the wayside.. she dodged a bullet she shot at herself, thanks to LE and the video.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I think Cindy was elated that the video showed the 15th and she could change the date from the 9th to the 15th. She knew she screwed up when she said the 9th (as far as for covering up issues going on that week leading to the big fight)...the change to the 15th worked in her favor... She was touting it all over the news.. it was the 15th! I have proof! So focus on the 9th thru the 14th fell by the wayside.. she dodged a bullet she shot at herself, thanks to LE and the video.

huh? To me it makes her the last one on record (outside the A family) to have been in charge of Caylee.

Noone else claims to have seen Caylee since the 15th (other than the new guy from the computer store).

I can't figure out why this doesn't bother anybody besides me. :crazy:
Does everyone trust CA that much?

 

[essies]

She only acknowledged the wrong date when LE approached her with the pictures of Caylee up in Mt. Dora that were taken June 15, 2008. You would think that between the four of them (the A's) someone would have remembered (looked at the calendar) the real date over the next 24 hours and called LE. As it was, all the posters had the June 9 date on them. I honestly don't think it was an honest mistake but we can agree to disagree. Doesn't mean I'm right either but I'm sticking to my belief that CA lied about the date which causes me to believe the coverup was already underway right then and there.

KC knew it wasn't June 9th! She specifically knew it was 31 days since she had seen Caylee-not 30-not 32-it was 31 days!! If there had been no pictures from MT. Dora I wonder what would have happened! Would KC have changed her story to 38 days or would CA have corrected herself and changed her story to June 16th? I do believe CA saying June 9th is telling - because I do believe that is when the countdown to Caylee's end started-at least in CA's mind.
I do believe KC went along with June 9th because she and the whole family were just falling in line behind CA. And no one has ever been able to get the truth out of KC without cornering her and dragging it out of her.

 

[lizzysf]

KC knew it wasn't June 9th! She specifically knew it was 31 days since she had seen Caylee-not 30-not 32-it was 31 days!! If there had been no pictures from MT. Dora I wonder what would have happened! Would KC have changed her story to 38 days or would CA have corrected herself and changed her story to June 16th? I do believe CA saying June 9th is telling - because I do believe that is when the countdown to Caylee's end started-at least in CA's mind.I do believe KC went along with June 9th because she and the whole family were just falling in line behind CA. And no one has ever been able to get the truth out of KC without cornering her and dragging it out of her.

It will be interesting to hear the details that come out about June 9th-15.. Who Casey and Caylee stayed overnight with during days in that week...Tony, Lee's roomate may know (since Lee won't tell if she was there), Casey's friends.. I think some turmoil will be uncovered explaining why June 9th signified the beginning of the end for Caylee in Cindy's mind. I think Casey was pulling Caylee away from Cindy to punish her and to rebel against the control already, which led up to the big fight on the 15th.

 

[Steely Dan]

I am in doubt the fight was over Grandma's money. I think it was about Casey's behavior being a threat to Cindy's control over Caylee. I doubt Cindy would confront Casey on the money matter..it may rock the boat and Casey might leave with Caylee. Cindy enables Casey to avoid confrontation, which may result in her leaving with Caylee. I have a sneaking feeling that the real reason she gave June 9th to begin with was because, in a sense, it was true. I think there were some escalating issues with Casey actually confronting Cindy about the control and she left with Caylee June 9th and possibly intermittently throughout that week..only as far as Lee's, Tony's and wherever..but not home. She let Caylee go to Mt. Dora with Cindy...but afterwards had intended to take Caylee and leave again and the "big fight" erupted that evening of the 15th. I really think Cindy meant June 9th when she said it.. but not in the sense that it was the last time she saw Caylee officially..it was just when the absences from the home started. Something was brewing before June 15th that led up to the big fight and murder.

I believe it was over the stolen money from the grandparents. IIRC, CA's brother called her in a huff about it. I don't know when that was but if it was on or about that week I can see it being the catalyst for the fight. JMO

I've thought on your above explanation too but then she was asked specifically "MISSING since when?" and not when did the trouble start. She made a big deal about there not being an Amber alert but thinks it's okay to post the wrong date Caylee was last seen.

Because of CA's controlling nature my belief remains that CA knew the exact day/date she last saw Caylee especially since she wrote that MySpace piece. She tried to deflect the date for some reason imo.

I always found that odd. She wanted them to put out an amber alert when the child had been missing for 31 days, there was no license number, or descriptiion for a car and her daughter had already told the cops a multitude of lies. Yeah Cindy, they'll get right on that.

 

[Micheline]

huh? To me it makes her the last one on record (outside the A family) to have been in charge of Caylee.

Noone else claims to have seen Caylee since the 15th (other than the new guy from the computer store).

I can't figure out why this doesn't bother anybody besides me. :crazy:
Does everyone trust CA that much?

Woe.be.gone it bothers me too, maybe not in the same way that it bothers you I am not sure.

The last evidence of Caylee being alive (video/pics) was in the presence of Cindy.
The last time Caylee was seen alive by witnesses other then family members was in the presence of Cindy, and this sighting (by staff of the elderly home) is backed up by video.

To my knowledge there is no proof of Caylee being in the presence of anyone other Cindy after June 15, nor of her being alive after June 15.

I find that disturbing, I do not believe Cindy harmed Caylee though.

 

[Mystic]

She only acknowledged the wrong date when LE approached her with the pictures of Caylee up in Mt. Dora that were taken June 15, 2008. You would think that between the four of them (the A's) someone would have remembered (looked at the calendar) the real date over the next 24 hours and called LE. As it was, all the posters had the June 9 date on them. I honestly don't think it was an honest mistake but we can agree to disagree. Doesn't mean I'm right either but I'm sticking to my belief that CA lied about the date which causes me to believe the coverup was already underway right then and there.

I have to agree that there is something to the June 9th date being used. I just find it odd that over the 31 days... that CA wouldn't relive that last day with Caylee, taking her to see grandpa, her singing, making a dinner for the two of them and having a swim. I haven't read absolutely everything on the case but maybe someone else has picked up on something about June 9th being a better date to use then the 15th. Obviously people do make errors, yet the fact is she had to be alerted to hers. So could very well be part of covering up what was going on that particular week.

 

[OneLostGrl]

So do you mean that you think that there must be more to the story?

I have no idea what happened to Caylee.. I have no theory at all. But I have yet to be convinced that it was Casey who caused Caylee's death and I don't trust Cindy as far as I can throw her.

 

[Ada]

I always found that odd. She wanted them to put out an amber alert when the child had been missing for 31 days, there was no license number, or descriptiion for a car and her daughter had already told the cops a multitude of lies. Yeah Cindy, they'll get right on that.

LOL yea I can see it now

"The suspect is said to be a perfect 10. If you see anyone matching this description..."