Revisit - Did CA/GA cover up 7-16-08

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These are all really good points and I wish we wouldn't have to wait for the trial (or even later) to find out some of the answers.

In relation to the car and the smell (spyhouston, et al) - that point has always bothered me. CA's initial 911 calls had to do with the car and Caylee, but did not mention the smell of the car, so I am thinking the original dispatch report mentioned that, which was why YM, as a child neglect officer, was originally sent to the home. Perhaps because the initial report was of a kidnapping, that may have taken precedence over the "stolen car" situation. CA has often said since - to excuse herself for the "dead body smell" that she was simply doing what she needed to do to get LE there. But there may be more to that, which I'd like to mention later.

It has often baffled me why LE did not notice the smell in the garage, although I think LA and KC went there for privacy to talk because LE was all over the home - particularly the living room. I have to think that either the outdoor garage door was closed to take the focus off the car, or that it was being aired out, or maybe the trunk had been steamcleaned to minimize the obvious smell. Since LA was there right when CA and KC got there, but the cops didn't show up until later, maybe that was a little chore he performed while waiting - or GA and CA did in the time they both had between picking up the car, bringing it home, reporting for work and returning home. Or maybe that happened later that night or during the next day. Perhaps CA told LE when they arrived that she had found both her daughter and the car but that Caylee was still missing and that became the big focus. I think the Anthonys did not mention the car smell on purpose, but at some point, perhaps while YM was on the wild goose chase with KC looking for "Zanny", someone at LE HQ started to consolidate the reports the 911 shift had recorded for the incident and noticed the hysterical "dead body smell" phrase, which, after being coordinated with YM and his colleagues led the next day to Sgt. Edwards - a homicide officer - being part of the LE group that KC took on that little Universal tour. So LE was already suspecting homicide and it may have had to do with that little nugget of info in CA's call as much as all the silliness inherent in KC's version.

I have to remember that, just like the Jon Benet case, initially the house was not being perceived as a crime scene, that it was initially thought that KC and Caylee had not been home for a month and that whatever crime had been committed (kidnapping initially), it had taken place elsewhere (like Sawgrass Apartments). Every single Anthony signed off on their report that the babysitter ZFG had Caylee at another location.

One thing I think CA and GA had both agreed upon when they picked up the car at Johnson's and brought it home was that, even if Caylee was found safe and sound for some reason, that car smelled like death and was most likely evidence for some kind of crime scene in which a body had been transported (dead drug dealer?). They may have discussed reporting later if necessary as having been "stolen" from their daughter by other nefarious types she knew, to somehow exonerate or remove her (and them) from whatever might have happened in it. They have done that a number of times - "fed" KC lines she might use to reduce her culpability (when CA asked KC "What did you do? Who TOOK her?" to KC that night before LE arrived, to the leading line coyly delivered by CA to KC in a jail visit that "the media think it might have been a pool accident" as an obvious lead in to something KC could use to mitigate any obvious suspicions of premeditated murder that may have been entertained by LE as a possibility.)

I believe that CA blurted that out, as well as the part about the smell because she was becoming increasingly frantic about KC's stubborn recalcitrance in taking her to Caylee. She may have realized her mistake, and most certainly GA did upon his return, because I suspect they did everything they could to take the emphasis off the car smell by telling LE "it was a bag of garbage that the guy at Johnson's took out of the trunk and threw over the fence". Obviously LE didn't buy it at that point because some time later that night they went back to Johnson's and retrieved the bag.

I think LE was pretty much on to the situation from the get-go, but knew they needed to play it close to the vest. They realized immediately they were dealing with a pathological liar and a family who was at least in simple denial and was perhaps intent on obstruction of justice given their attitudes, behavior (bringing home a car that was clearly a crime scene but cleaning portions of it and who knows what else) - a realization that was only validated continually in the public and private actions the family took over the course of the investigation.
 
I had always had questions about the way things were handled by LE that night, and put it down to the the same reasoning- that they thought caylee was MIA with ZG, so there was no need to go through every item right there and then.
But the fact is, CA had already made the statement about the car smelling like death. It was their job to investigate that.
Lee's 29th july statement says that there were a bunch of LE in the garage- so they had to have smelt it too. If the anthonys are expected to know that that smell was from a dead caylee, why isnt the same excpected from trained professionals who know that smell so well?
LE dropped the ball that first night. They have done amazing things since in the investigation, but I cant pretend that they didnt fail caylee that night, and failed to follow basic procedure to ensure the integrity of the investigation.
JMO

I am still re-reading the docs again. I just read this LA testimony and it reads like a story book. He hums and haws with his responses and more than once brushes the question asked off to another subject or laughs about it. When asked about what type of uniforms they were wearing or what type of cars were at the house, he couldn't answer clearly and directly.

His own statement is he left around midnight to go to TL's to retrieve KC's personal belongs and goes into great deal about how he found her items and that he spent more than two hours there away from the A compound. But goes into great detail about how CA/GA grabbed at KC's bags upon his return and CA grabs the cash out of KC's wallet along with credit cards. Kudo's to him for at least admitting that he saw another type of id and that an officer grabbed it before CA/GA could get it back into their possession. He was helpful without knowing it.

I need to continue reading what LE says about the car and there are many officers reports to re-read. What I have re-discovered is that July 17, LE knew it wasn't a kidnapping and they state it as such. Some of the forms have "homicide" in the box for type of crime committed. I just picked up on that today and I have read these docs many times over. Fresh eyes looking.

Really, I hope there ISN"T a new doc dump. It really helps to re-read evidence instead of relying on memory and the IIRC. I just want a cliff note thread for this case :)
 
Thank you!:blowkiss:I didn't need to sleep tonight!:crazy:
 
Starting this thread so we can discuss in one place whether or not CA and GA started the cover up prior to 7.16.08 or on this date.

I have several, ok, many posts written about this in both the #6 and #7 Random Thoughts threads and if I can figure out how to link them here I will.

Please remember to keep the discussions on this topic so we don't stray too far. I have been reviewing the many docs and find most of the info I have used to come to my opinions can be found in these three files which are from the reference guide found here: Interview Reference Guide To Finding All Interviews, Motions, Grand Jury and Trials. - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Part 1
http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/Casey Anthony discovery Pages 1-150.pdf

Part 2 http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/Casey Anthony discovery Pages 151-263.pdf

Part3 http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/Casey Anthony discovery Pages 264-431.pdf

Happy re-reading :)
I can bring the actual posts themselves over here if you can link them. to link them, click the number of the post in the upper right corner. A new window will open up showing that single post. Copy the link for that window and then paste it over here. I can then move the whole post to this thread.
 
Is that better?
hang on still working on it.

ok, that takes care of that part. Now if there are any specific post you want to link for me to bring over i can do that. I replaced countzero's opening post with an old post of countzero's and edited in count's new post so anything you want to bring over will fall under the opening post.
lol, got that?
 
you guys I have to leave but the minute I return i will fix the links in the OP
 
Thanks JBean for moving the threads over here for further discussions.

Everyone, I am still re-reading those docs. This ol' brain of mine can't absorb it all and I have cheat sheets written on little yellow pads of paper so I don't misquote what the docs say. I am really concentrating on GA's depo because of this mis truths he spoke to LE/FBI specifically about KC's whereabouts between 6-15 & 7-15 and the 7-15 date itself. I really want to compare the three stories told in the depos.

The three written statements by CA/GA/LA on 7-16 also bother me. Not once did the mention of odor come up.
 
IIRC, Cindy didn't freak about the smell until she overheard Casey tell Lee that she didn't know where Caylee was. Up to that point, she didn't know that Caylee was REALLY missing.

:blowkiss:

Except for the July 3 "Caylee is missing" myspace posting....
 
Just stopping in to say again Thank you JBean and countzero so much!:blowkiss:
This is great-just what I needed! OK-back to reading!:wave:
 
Meant to say in my earlier post....I think LE came and went that night out the front door, and CA, GA, LA, KC did not say one word about the horrible smell in the garage....

And, I have the highest admiration about the way LE handled this case from Moment 31, since the term Day 1 definitely doesn't fit. They just wouldn't have missed the smell. I think by the time anyone arrived the garage door was down and they just ignored the earlier 911 "my car has been stolen" because they had more pressing issues with a missing child. But, how could the A family cover up that smell that night???


Yes, yes, yes!! When YM arrived why didn't CA say to him, "come with me" and take him to the garage, to the car, and say to him, get in there and tell me what you think that smells like. Why? She had a missing grand baby that her daughter would not give up. And the sociopathic daughters car smelling like a dead body's been in the d@*n car! Smells fishy to me. jmo
 
Yes, yes, yes!! When YM arrived why didn't CA say to him, "come with me" and take him to the garage, to the car, and say to him, get in there and tell me what you think that smells like. Why? She had a missing grand baby that her daughter would not give up. And the sociopathic daughters car smelling like a dead body's been in the d@*n car! Smells fishy to me. jmo
You are good. :clap::clap::clap:

Time for me to get off for the night, but keep them coming so I can read what I missed tomorrow when I get home in the afternoon.
 
I haven't re read, but wasn't CA telling the 911 dispatch about the smell when the officers were walking in the door?
 
Cover up? It depends on what they knew, when they knew it and their pattern of dealing with knowledge of uncomfortable facts. Go back to their denial of an obvious 7 month pregnancy at the wedding in June 2005. Of course they knew KC was pregnant.

So, when did they know something was wrong? They certainly knew KC very well. They raised her and she continued to live with them after she became an adult.

They knew about the big fight on June 15, 2008. They knew every detail of their botched "intervention" about the quality of KC's parenting.

When CA denied that KC would ever abuse Caylee, the red flags went up. The opposite was more probably true. The computer searches around KC's 22nd birthday in March for shovels, making chloroform and neck breaking didn't suddenly come out of the blue from a lovely, compassionate, innocent 22 year old.

The sheer volume and vehemence of the denials by CA and to some extent GA are proof in and of themselves that they knew.

GA probably knew first when he tried to get into the trunk of the car for the tire chocks. No doubt, he probably talked to CA. After that, CA picked up the pace in trying to find KC and Caylee. After that came the web posting by CA. It appears CA knew there was a probable homicide as early as the web posting. IF KC brought a dead body into the house and laid it on the bed as some suspect, there was probably a stench in the house by no later than June 19th. CA washed the sheets more than once -- for a child who was not there. The confrontation on July 15th was just the dance this family has danced for years and years -- decades -- when they want to get the truth from KC. It was a predictable script. CA knew she was going to have to call the police as soon as they picked up the car before she ever found KC.
 
Meant to say in my earlier post....I think LE came and went that night out the front door, and CA, GA, LA, KC did not say one word about the horrible smell in the garage....

And, I have the highest admiration about the way LE handled this case from Moment 31, since the term Day 1 definitely doesn't fit. They just wouldn't have missed the smell. I think by the time anyone arrived the garage door was down and they just ignored the earlier 911 "my car has been stolen" because they had more pressing issues with a missing child. But, how could the A family cover up that smell that night???

Febreeze, candles whatever....
 
On the old thread, it was mentioned that LA spent several hours picking up KC's stuff from TonE's. I guess my question would be--LE went to pick up her cellphone themselves--why didn't they get the computer & clothes too? That pretty much left the computer and purse unguarded and open to anyone messing with them before LE had a chance to confiscate them. Why would they let Lee go pick them up, but then pick up the cellphone themselves? I don't get it.

JMO but I think LE at that moment in time had the mindset of a 2 year old missing and nothing else. Patrolmen were on the scene, no one there to really lock the place or characters down and take control of the situation.
 
I had always had questions about the way things were handled by LE that night, and put it down to the the same reasoning- that they thought caylee was MIA with ZG, so there was no need to go through every item right there and then.
But the fact is, CA had already made the statement about the car smelling like death. It was their job to investigate that.
Lee's 29th july statement says that there were a bunch of LE in the garage- so they had to have smelt it too. If the anthonys are expected to know that that smell was from a dead caylee, why isnt the same excpected from trained professionals who know that smell so well?
LE dropped the ball that first night. They have done amazing things since in the investigation, but I cant pretend that they didnt fail caylee that night, and failed to follow basic procedure to ensure the integrity of the investigation.
JMO




Wouldn't they have needed a warrant to search/impound the car? They took the car less than 24 hours later. It probably took that long to get the paperwork completed and make it all legal. If they had obtained evidence without that warrant, the evidence would be inadmissable in court.
 
Wouldn't they have needed a warrant to search/impound the car? They took the car less than 24 hours later. It probably took that long to get the paperwork completed and make it all legal. If they had obtained evidence without that warrant, the evidence would be inadmissable in court.

GA gave written permission for the car to be impounded by LE. Still looking to read the warrant for it if there is one.

The problems/issues of understanding the docs is from LEs end. Each officer writes and submits their own report. YM did a general synopsis report for the arrest warrant for murder in Oct 08, but one has to go back and re-read the individual reports. The other point is these reports don't always show the time the officers were at the A compound. Some reports do show times when interviews were conducted.

So I have to go and read the synopsis, then go find the individual officers report, then go and read the depo portion that relates to the written report :crazy:. Have I confused myself enough yet ............

I would love to review the work notes more than anything and see what "personal" observations each of the officers had on their visits/interviews.
 
In no way will I ever believe that the A's knew of Caylee's death prior to 7/16. If you look at the interviews with LE it is obvious the A's were at first trying to piece together events surrounding Caylee's disappearance.

I do think once they smelled the car shear panic set in and KC could no longer placate her mother over the phone with excuses for not coming home. At this point CA was frantic to see her daughter and more importantly, demand she produce Caylee.

We are talking MURDER here and to think that a whole family would go into coverup mode for an unstable member of their family is not something I can believe. I wouldn't do it and I don't think any of you would do it. JMO
 
In no way will I ever believe that the A's knew of Caylee's death prior to 7/16. If you look at the interviews with LE it is obvious the A's were at first trying to piece together events surrounding Caylee's disappearance.

I do think once they smelled the car shear panic set in and KC could no longer placate her mother over the phone with excuses for not coming home. At this point CA was frantic to see her daughter and more importantly, demand she produce Caylee.

We are talking MURDER here and to think that a whole family would go into coverup mode for an unstable member of their family is not something I can believe. I wouldn't do it and I don't think any of you would do it. JMO

But lil kid---this whole family is unstable. I bet very very few of us would go on National TV and make azzes of ourselves. We may never know the whole story. But I know where you are comin from.:blowkiss:
 
I don't think the family "knew" before 7/16. But, the suspicion was growing or else I don't think CA would have said "what have YOU done?" If She thought KC had no involvement she probably would have said something like "OMG-What's happened?"
I think in the beginning it was denial mixed with suspicion. But, somewhere, and I'm not sure where yet-the family realized the truth! I think at that point-the family (probably with the help of some third parties) made a choice!
It's a choice that they are gonna have to live with and sleep with for the rest of their lives. Sometimes I think I see regret in GA's face and his words. But, then CA is right there to snap him out of it!:slap:
 
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