Right, shut your face and do as I tell you

[DeeDee249]

Friends do NOT cover up for these types of things unless IMO they are evil social paths.
Now there are 4 adults involved in writing the note and staging JBR body after the "accident" ? lol
Normal people just dont do this. Among this group, i do believe they all had chilldren....they probably had grown fond of jbr and hard to believe they would stage everything and lie. JMO

Normal people sometimes find themselves in abnormal situations. They don't have to be sociopaths. They just have to be VERY frightened. Afraid of the Rs pointing a finger at them (especially if they were there that night- DNA and fibers, etc.) and especially of having to spend a fortune on defense attorneys if LW came after them.
I had a young cousin murdered years ago. It was someone looking for her new roommate, who apparently had a darker past than my cousin was aware of. It was like a movie- the kind of thing you never think will happen to your family- it happens to other people. No "crime scene clean-up" van shows up. Three bullets in the head at point blank range is MESSY. Picture yourself as a young mom (as I was then) with paper towels, windex cleaning up brains and blood, with the landlord banging on the door to "get that place cleaned up, I have it rented already". NEVER underestimate what "normal" people will or will not do in a situation that is anything but normal. We (her cousins) did what we had to do, to try to spare her parents doing it. BTW, her roommate survived, having been shot in the mouth. She lost her tongue, but otherwise recovered. She was allowed to return home to Canada to receive medical care. When the perp was caught, (she had identified who it was) she refused to come back to New Jersey to testify. Police couldn't force her.
The perp walked free.
Three weeks later, he was killed.....
Gotta love New Jersey.

 

[JMO8778]

FW comes across as an honorable man;I don't think he has anything to hide,I think he just wants justice to (hopefully) prevail and to do the right thing in the meantime.
If anything,I think fernie is the one who is hiding something,seeing as he lied about reading the note thru the door,and about getting there bf FW did.

I've always theorized that the R's had real friends,and friends they were just superficial with...ones they used to up their reputation.JR as a businessman would have known this tactic..it's the reason why so many businessmen and politicians alike go to church.
I think the Stines were their real friends,and the Whites were their superficial friends.

 

[JMO8778]

Normal people sometimes find themselves in abnormal situations. They don't have to be sociopaths. They just have to be VERY frightened. Afraid of the Rs pointing a finger at them (especially if they were there that night- DNA and fibers, etc.) and especially of having to spend a fortune on defense attorneys if LW came after them.
I had a young cousin murdered years ago. It was someone looking for her new roommate, who apparently had a darker past than my cousin was aware of. It was like a movie- the kind of thing you never think will happen to your family- it happens to other people. No "crime scene clean-up" van shows up. Three bullets in the head at point blank range is MESSY. Picture yourself as a young mom (as I was then) with paper towels, windex cleaning up brains and blood, with the landlord banging on the door to "get that place cleaned up, I have it rented already". NEVER underestimate what "normal" people will or will not do in a situation that is anything but normal. We (her cousins) did what we had to do, to try to spare her parents doing it. BTW, her roommate survived, having been shot in the mouth. She lost her tongue, but otherwise recovered. She was allowed to return home to Canada to receive medical care. When the perp was caught, (she had identified who it was) she refused to come back to New Jersey to testify. Police couldn't force her.
The perp walked free.
Three weeks later, he was killed.....
Gotta love New Jersey.

O my Deedee..how awful!!
Thank goodness justice prevailed!!

 

[JMO8778]

Friends do NOT cover up for these types of things unless IMO they are evil social paths.
Now there are 4 adults involved in writing the note and staging JBR body after the "accident" ? lol
Normal people just dont do this. Among this group, i do believe they all had chilldren....they probably had grown fond of jbr and hard to believe they would stage everything and lie. JMO

what were they going to do? they'd already been called,and I suspect JR told them BR did it,or if he said Patsy---he used her cancer as a means to emotionally get to them and spare her the rest of her life in prison.so once they were in on it...that was that.Recall that Boulder is a very liberal town..I imagine there were lots of things hidden from police.they may have been used to that aspect of living there.

 

[JMO8778]

It looks like when J + P packed the plane the day before, JonBenet was still alive.

she was.in DOI,John says he packed the plane bf they went to the White's.that makes sense..it would have been late when they returned,otherwise.

 

[JMO8778]

I also agree with the points you made, GingBreade; however, I'm pretty sure that any of these people would be very afraid to open their mouths. With the exception of the pilot, they would all face charges if their involvement were exposed. Also, for money, lots of people can keep their mouths shut forever. The pilots wife talked about some things for awhile and then abruptly shut up, wonder why?

good point,she said it even broke up their marriage.

 

[JMO8778]

I so agree with you on so may points but really let's look at the numbers here. First off (and my theory right now) there is just 3 ppl in the house that would know what happened. PR, JR, BR. Add the Stines and the Dr. and it brings the total to 7, then add the lawyer who may have came and the pilot for the plane (he must have known ahead of time how many he was flying...DS would have been included in the count if he was indeed going to travel with them) anyways the total is now 9. One thing I have learned is that people can't keep their mouths shut so really we should have heard something by now by a friend, foe, drunk relative or whatever. So either Stine and Dr. and lawyer had something to hide too or they are afraid?

I think the lawyer was greedy,perhaps they all were; but I do think the Stines and Dr Beuf no doubt had something to hide.

 

[DeeDee249]

O my Deedee..how awful!!
Thank goodness justice prevailed!!

Thanks. Sometimes it does. This was real "Jersey-Style" justice. We don't know exactly what happened to the perp- this type of person has a lot of enemies. But we didn't shed any tears. We wouldn't have gotten justice in a courtroom with the only eye-witness refusing to testify. This was the early 1980s and forensic science isn't what it is now. And this perp didn't spend much time in he house, having shot the roommate when she opened the door and shot my cousin when she came out of the bedroom because she heard the commotion. No one called police when they heard gunshots, a common sound in Jersey City. When she didn't show up for work the next day and couldn't be reached, someone called her parents, who called police. I found out what happened because I had a friend on the police force then. He recognized her name and called me, but they didn't know who was who. Hard to tell in gunshot head wounds. All they knew was one girl was still alive and one was very obviously dead. He did tell me to be sure it wasn't her parents who had to come identify the body. I did it, with an aunt.

 

[SunnieRN]

what were they going to do? they'd already been called,and I suspect JR told them BR did it,or if he said Patsy---he used her cancer as a means to emotionally get to them and spare her the rest of her life in prison.so once they were in on it...that was that.Recall that Boulder is a very liberal town..I imagine there were lots of things hidden from police.they may have been used to that aspect of living there.

I see some of where your passion originates now Dee Dee. Thank you for sharing this with us and God bless you for sparing your Aunt and Uncle from so many burdens!

 

[SunnieRN]

FW comes across as an honorable man;I don't think he has anything to hide,I think he just wants justice to (hopefully) prevail and to do the right thing in the meantime.
If anything,I think fernie is the one who is hiding something,seeing as he lied about reading the note thru the door,and about getting there bf FW did.

I've always theorized that the R's had real friends,and friends they were just superficial with...ones they used to up their reputation.JR as a businessman would have known this tactic..it's the reason why so many businessmen and politicians alike go to church.
I think the Stines were their real friends,and the Whites were their superficial friends.

I agree that FW comes across as honorable. I don't think that John has anything at all pertaining to Jon Benet's murder on FW, but something all together different, that somehow ensures his silence.

 

[my_tee_mouse]

FW comes across as an honorable man;I don't think he has anything to hide,I think he just wants justice to (hopefully) prevail and to do the right thing in the meantime.
If anything,I think fernie is the one who is hiding something,seeing as he lied about reading the note thru the door,and about getting there bf FW did.

I've always theorized that the R's had real friends,and friends they were just superficial with...ones they used to up their reputation.JR as a businessman would have known this tactic..it's the reason why so many businessmen and politicians alike go to church.
I think the Stines were their real friends,and the Whites were their superficial friends.

There is a limit to friendship, the limit being when a "friend" asks someone to break the law for them. Sounds to me like the Whites were more "friends" with JBR and the truth than they were with the adult Ramseys, and I most definitely cannot fault them for that!

 

[CathyR]

If the Whites had any evidence or knowledge of what happened they would have told. Honorable people do this even if fearful. Especially after they moved out, Patsy died, John sold his company and moved to Michigan, 14 years have elapsed.

Fleet handled crime scene evidence he doesn't want to have to be a suspect but he did it to himself. He has been called all kinds of things by tabs, rags, and forum posters.

He fears public opinion more than the R's. That would affect his family and career more than the R's.

His disagreement with the R's getting a lawyer is his right, IMO he needed one too. His fingerprints are on a suitcase he handled it in the basement. He searched the basement alone and didn't find JBR. He was circumstantially involved. I'm sure he resented the R's for calling him in hindsight. He had an argument with I thought it was John but read later it was with John's brother at his brothers house. He later followed said brother to Patsy's parents house and continued argument.

No one acted very rationally and without looking guilty. Grief does that to people.


Ron Westmoreland had enough of that kind of stuff, and sued someone for it. He was in another State and help John get the ransom money together correctly.

 

[joeskidbeck]

People do NOT keep their mouths shut. someone would've said something by now. Either anonomously or just right out. As in: I cant take it anymore and Im telling.
It seems F White was mad because he told JR not to get a lawyer.
He wasnt afraid of the R;s....what were the others afraid of?

I don't know what Fleet White was afraid of unless it was the fact that John had set him up with enough evidence to make him look guilty. But with the Stines, I think you missed my point. Their son could possibly have been there that night and very involved in whatever happened to JB. This would ensure their silence for the rest of their lives.

 

[JMO8778]

I'm convinced the Stine's son knows some of what went on that night.Even if he didn't go home w the R's,I doubt they left him home alone once they called them to come over.
Also,I don't see how he could have lived w them for that long and not overheard some of the converstations that went on.Not just that,but the general mood and feel of the household,even if he didn't outright hear anything.Most kids are very astute to those types of things.

 

[CathyR]

Fleet set himself up as no one asked him to move items. Any other actions he made can easily be explained, even not finding her the first time. I can understand if you are looking for a hiding kid in a cellar moving stuff that the kid might be hiding behind but I see no logical reason why he moved the suitcase. I don't think he was involved he just made a poor choice in a situation he was not trained in knowing what to do. Besides a few true crime buffs and police how many people could avoid doing something that might compromise a crime scene if they are there and upset. It had to be stressful for everyone on the block who knew JBR.
John might have pointed a finger at him later but only because they were looking at all their friends and neighbors and the White's behavior was not what the R's expected, the same can be said the other way around.
I think the poster who said their friendship was more superficial was closer to the truth. The R's and White's were not as close in sharing mutual values and personality traits. It is easier to understand someone if you too would make the same choices if in their shoes. As arrogant as people have said John behaved I think it is also arrogant of Fleet to think he and his family should never have been suspects. When a crime like this occurs everyone in close proximity of the victim will be investigated and everyone is a suspect.

 

[joeskidbeck]

Fleet set himself up as no one asked him to move items. Any other actions he made can easily be explained, even not finding her the first time. I can understand if you are looking for a hiding kid in a cellar moving stuff that the kid might be hiding behind but I see no logical reason why he moved the suitcase. I don't think he was involved he just made a poor choice in a situation he was not trained in knowing what to do. Besides a few true crime buffs and police how many people could avoid doing something that might compromise a crime scene if they are there and upset. It had to be stressful for everyone on the block who knew JBR.
John might have pointed a finger at him later but only because they were looking at all their friends and neighbors and the White's behavior was not what the R's expected, the same can be said the other way around.
I think the poster who said their friendship was more superficial was closer to the truth. The R's and White's were not as close in sharing mutual values and personality traits. It is easier to understand someone if you too would make the same choices if in their shoes. As arrogant as people have said John behaved I think it is also arrogant of Fleet to think he and his family should never have been suspects. When a crime like this occurs everyone in close proximity of the victim will be investigated and everyone is a suspect.

When the rift between John and Fleet happened, John had not yet accused Fleet of anything. I believe Fleet went to Atlanta to try and convince John to tell the truth of what happened and face the consequences. This is when Fleet & Pricisilla became enemy # 1. He basically gave John ammunition with whitch to fight him. I wish he had gone to LE with what he knew or suspected instead of Atlanta. But I guess that would have been hard since he was supposed to have been a pall bearer for JonBenet. The real problem is that the Whites were friends to the Ramseys, but the Ramseys were not real friends with anyone but themselves.

 

[Ames]

Fleet set himself up as no one asked him to move items. Any other actions he made can easily be explained, even not finding her the first time. I can understand if you are looking for a hiding kid in a cellar moving stuff that the kid might be hiding behind but I see no logical reason why he moved the suitcase. I don't think he was involved he just made a poor choice in a situation he was not trained in knowing what to do. Besides a few true crime buffs and police how many people could avoid doing something that might compromise a crime scene if they are there and upset. It had to be stressful for everyone on the block who knew JBR.
John might have pointed a finger at him later but only because they were looking at all their friends and neighbors and the White's behavior was not what the R's expected, the same can be said the other way around.
I think the poster who said their friendship was more superficial was closer to the truth. The R's and White's were not as close in sharing mutual values and personality traits. It is easier to understand someone if you too would make the same choices if in their shoes. As arrogant as people have said John behaved I think it is also arrogant of Fleet to think he and his family should never have been suspects. When a crime like this occurs everyone in close proximity of the victim will be investigated and everyone is a suspect.

He moved it looking for glass from the broken window. Sounds pretty logical to me.

 

[pingpong]

I only started reading about this case since 2007, so sorry if this has been covered already, but were there any plastic spiders found?

The reason I ask is because there appears to be a Russian Christmas meaning to some of the clues, and plastic spiders and spider webs mean something in the Russian Christmas theme.

Also, that suitcase is also called a Portmanatea .

The word has multiple meanings, and another is the blending of words to create a new word...JonBenet's name is a Portmanateau of John Ramsey's name. It might be a clue.

The third meaning is the cloak that JonBenet is wearing in the picture of her in the red cape..It is a portmanateau.

The Russian Santa--Ded Moroz- it is traditional to leave food out on the table overnight for deceased ancestors.

 

[CathyR]

Why is Fleet playing super sleuth? He is supposed to be looking for JBR and when finding a broken window he should have stopped and called for assistance. He suddenly turns into Sherlock Holmes. That is what isn't logical.
You don't shift your search for the child when you find evidence you note the evidence or even stop the search in that area till police get there. Let them look for broken glass or whatever might be considered clues. That is what I find illogical. I also stated that he was not prepared or trained to know what to do so the fact that he made poor choices is not evidence of guilt, just no experince or training in what to do.

 

[CathyR]

I only started reading about this case since 2007, so sorry if this has been covered already, but were there any plastic spiders found?

The reason I ask is because there appears to be a Russian Christmas meaning to some of the clues, and plastic spiders and spider webs mean something in the Russian Christmas theme.

Also, that suitcase is also called a Portmanatea .

The word has multiple meanings, and another is the blending of words to create a new word...JonBenet's name is a Portmanateau of John Ramsey's name. It might be a clue.

The third meaning is the cloak that JonBenet is wearing in the picture of her in the red cape..It is a portmanateau.

The Russian Santa--Ded Moroz- it is traditional to leave food out on the table overnight for deceased ancestors.

I looked up the word but miss the cape reference. I found only that some businesses that sell capes use that term in reference to a certain cape they sell. They describe a cape as being a blend of wool and another fabric thus they use the term loosely. Found no Russian meaning in the word as it is English and French in origin. Found no reference to Christmas either.

Always wondered why we put out food for Santa a(cookie and reindeer granola).

There were real spiders in basement so who needs plastic ones???????