Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #6

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It is very concerning to me that so many people fall victim to conspiracy theories, misinformation, and outright propaganda. Please be wary of where you get your news. I have found the following to be reliable:

BBC
PBS
DW
AP
Reuters
NYT
WP
WSJ
The Guardian
ITV NEWS

I think that the following are usually factually accurate, but I do not care for their sensationalism (ETA and bias).

ABC
NBC
CBS
SKY
CNN

Good for pictures, but not much else:

Daily Mail.


ETA: Guide from the library service at CUNY's school of journalism on evaluating news, facts, and news sources.
CSI Library: Misinformation and Disinformation: Thinking Critically about Information Sources: Definitions of Terms
 
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sunshineray said:
It wouldn't be NATO , it would be a non-NATO country...and I hear you, what I propose doesn't make much sense. That's precisely my point. Not much being done to Ukraine has made sense, none really. I don't want WWIII, it does though, almost seem like spinning some things on their head, using a little Putin craziness against him, might actually work.

And everyone forgets the kindergarten that was vaccum bombed few days into the invasion. IIRC it was on the outskirts of Kharkiv. Putins' been killing children since the beginning of all this.

Like I said, I know it's a crazy idea.
Click to expand...

My issue with that is he could declare war on the other non NATO country and once again NATO's hands are tied. Thats like running in front of a train in my mind. JMO
 
Here is a statement released by the US Embassy in Ukraine - April 2020

U.S.-Ukraine Partnership to Reduce Biological Threats

The U.S. Embassy would like to set the record straight regarding disinformation spreading in some circles in Ukraine that mirrors Russian disinformation regarding the strong U.S.-Ukrainian partnership to reduce biological threats.

Here in Ukraine, the U.S. Department of Defense’s Biological Threat Reduction Program works with the Ukrainian Government to consolidate and secure pathogens and toxins of security concern in Ukrainian government facilities, while allowing for peaceful research and vaccine development. We also work with our Ukrainian partners to ensure Ukraine can detect and report outbreaks caused by dangerous pathogens before they pose security or stability threats.

Our joint efforts help to ensure that dangerous pathogens do not fall into the wrong hands. We’re proud to partner with the Ministry of Health, State Service of Ukraine for Food Safety and Consumer Protection, National Academy of Agrarian Sciences, and the Ministry of Defense to make us all safer.

U.S.-Ukraine Partnership to Reduce Biological Threats
 
dotr said:
Frank Stronach: How we can put an end to the loss of life in Ukraine | National Post
''The conflict in the Ukraine should never have come to this point, but it’s still not too late to stop the killing and halt the war. There is only one diplomatic solution to this crisis: the US and Europe must enter into a binding agreement that Ukraine will never join NATO and remain a neutral country in exchange for a complete Russian withdrawal. The only other possible end to the crisis is by waging war — and it will come with a great deal more bloodshed and destruction.

I believe the army generals in Russia — not only Vladimir Putin — have a significant say in the country’s affairs, especially when it comes to their national security. They harbour a very real and deep-seated concern about Ukraine joining NATO and having an antagonistic neighbour right on their doorstep.''
Click to expand...

So the deal between Putin and the West is that Ukraine will belong more to Russia than to the EU? China would agree with this based on history, and comments that NATO is infringing East into USSR territory. Does the West have a reason to disagree? For the sake of democracy is not the answer. The answer has to have merit in culture, lifestyle, government, so on. Will the people of Ukraine be more oppressed if they guarantee that they will always be aligned with Russia first?

It sounds like Russia extracted promises from India and China that they will stand with Russia no matter what - they abstain at votes related to the invasion of Ukraine.

Is Ukraine willing to remain neutral, and can the people of Ukraine continue with their quality of life before Putin accused the Jewish Ukraine President of being a nazi?

Is Russia's invasion of Ukraine just the beginning of absorbing all former USSR countries and Western Europe?
 
Betty P said:
Why would the US be doing that in a foreign country? If true, the program should be ended immediately and the people who approved it given their walking papers.
Click to expand...

It wouldn't be the first time in history that experiments were conducted in foreign countries.

This was posted a couple of days ago, after the attack on the largest nuclear power station in Ukraine. The greatest damage was to one part of the facility: the joint Obama research operation between USA and Ukraine at a nuclear facility near the Russian border.

"IAEA Director-General Rafael Grossi on Monday told a press conference that Russia's military assault on Ukraine's Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Station led to the destruction of a neutron generator in one of the facilities on the campus.

"It was a relatively new one [facility], part of an operation between the US and Ukraine from the Obama administration. It was a scientific institute," he said.
​
https://www.jpost.com/international/article-700566
 
otto said:
NATO cannot arm Ukraine with fighter jets. That would mean that NATO is involving itself in the conflict, which gives Russia the green light to attack NATO countries.

At this time, this is a Russia-Ukraine situation - one with a long history. NATO is not and cannot be involved until there is an aggression against a NATO country.

I was very curious about the strange deal where Poland would give their Russian fighter jets to Ukraine and the USA would give their fighter jets to Poland. It almost looked like a playground negotiation of see, as a member of NATO, I'm not supplying arms to Ukraine. I'm not surprised that Putin was not amused, that he bombed a maternity ward within a day or so. At least the Pentagon saw the problem.
Click to expand...

So Moldova could be buying planes and having their AF flying over Ukraine to support them.

Moldova USED TO have 29 MiG fighters according to Wikipedia

"In 1994 the Moldovan Air Force consisted of 1,300 men organized into one fighter regiment, one helicopter squadron, and one missile brigade.[5] Armaments used by the air force included thirty-one MiG-29 Fulcrum aircraft, eight Mi-8 Hip helicopters, five transport aircraft (including an Antonov An-72 Coaler), and twenty-five SA-3 Goa/SA-5 Gammon surface-to-air missiles.

The 86th Guards Fighter Aviation Regiment had been located at Mărculești since October 1951, and had been reequipped with MiG-29s in 1988.[8] It had been part of the 119th Fighter Aviation Division, which had been resubordinated to the Soviet Black Sea Fleet since December 1989.

Twenty-one of the MiG-29s were sold to the United States in October 1997 to prevent their sale on the world market, and for research purposes. All the spare parts for those aircraft were also purchased, as were the accompanying 500 air-to-air missiles. [9] All the aircraft were transported from Moldova to the National Air Intelligence Center (NAIC) at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base near Dayton, Ohio in Boeing C-17 Globemaster III transport planes over a period of two weeks.[10]

As of 2006 all the MiG-29 fighters had either been sold or scrapped, and the Moldovan Air Force had only 2 An-2 Colts, 1 An-26 Curl, 2 An-72 Coalers, 8 Mi-8 Hips, and 12 SA-3 'Goa' SAMs in service, manned by 1,040 personnel.[7]"
 
BayouBelle_LA said:
Here is a statement released by the US Embassy in Ukraine - April 2020

U.S.-Ukraine Partnership to Reduce Biological Threats

The U.S. Embassy would like to set the record straight regarding disinformation spreading in some circles in Ukraine that mirrors Russian disinformation regarding the strong U.S.-Ukrainian partnership to reduce biological threats.

Here in Ukraine, the U.S. Department of Defense’s Biological Threat Reduction Program works with the Ukrainian Government to consolidate and secure pathogens and toxins of security concern in Ukrainian government facilities, while allowing for peaceful research and vaccine development. We also work with our Ukrainian partners to ensure Ukraine can detect and report outbreaks caused by dangerous pathogens before they pose security or stability threats.

Our joint efforts help to ensure that dangerous pathogens do not fall into the wrong hands. We’re proud to partner with the Ministry of Health, State Service of Ukraine for Food Safety and Consumer Protection, National Academy of Agrarian Sciences, and the Ministry of Defense to make us all safer.

U.S.-Ukraine Partnership to Reduce Biological Threats
Click to expand...

Does that mean there is a USA lab in Ukraine, is this an admission that there is a lab? Russia is declaring this lab a biological weapons factory, USA is declaring it a vaccine research lab?
 
CSIDreamer said:
My issue with that is he could declare war on the other non NATO country and once again NATO's hands are tied. Thats like running in front of a train in my mind. JMO
Click to expand...
And then the madness of that would have to stop. It would be, prove it. If a smaller non-NATO country was threatened, NATO could move into that country and set up a defense. That must be allowed considering what has occured against civilians in Ukraine by Putin's orders. I bet the World Court would even agree with those protective measures. I think if we're all going to band together against a crazy egomaniac who wants to subjugate the world, we have to be open to in the moment adjustments...to save lives. AJMO
 
otto said:
It wouldn't be the first time in history that experiments were conducted in foreign countries.

This was posted a couple of days ago, after the attack on the largest nuclear power station in Ukraine. The greatest damage was to one part of the facility: the joint Obama research operation between USA and Ukraine at a nuclear facility near the Russian border.

"IAEA Director-General Rafael Grossi on Monday told a press conference that Russia's military assault on Ukraine's Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Station led to the destruction of a neutron generator in one of the facilities on the campus.

"It was a relatively new one [facility], part of an operation between the US and Ukraine from the Obama administration. It was a scientific institute," he said.
​
https://www.jpost.com/international/article-700566
Click to expand...


Wouldn't such labs be considered "Biosafety Labs"... assuming they are are working with pathogens and biological agents?? If so, they are located all over the world. Highest (containment) level is BSL-4. I'm sure additional info is available online (for many countries). jmo

eta: not all bio-agents are weapons of mass destruction. (and I could be way over my head in what I'm discussing ;))
 
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sunshineray said:
Undersecretary of State for Political Affairs Victoria Nuland testified before a Senate Foreign Relation Committee hearing in Washington, DC and said the labs had pathogens including the plague and antrax...scary
Click to expand...

What? Is this what Putin meant when he said he would unleash something the world had never seen before? Nuclear and biological weapon warfare?

Where is this facility located? Do we know that yet?
 
sunshineray said:
Undersecretary of State for Political Affairs Victoria Nuland testified before a Senate Foreign Relation Committee hearing in Washington, DC and said the labs had pathogens including the plague and antrax...scary
Click to expand...

Labs in the US have stocks of Anthrax and plague too. How else would we study these pathogens and develop treatments and vaccines? What matters is that the labs are safe, secure, and operate to the highest international standards.

NIAID BSL-3 Priority Pathogens – Tufts New England Regional Biosafety Laboratory
 
otto said:
What? Is this what Putin meant when he said he would unleash something the world had never seen before? Nuclear and biological weapon warfare?

Where is this facility located? Do we know that yet?
Click to expand...

DBM
 
Herat said:
So Moldova could be buying planes and having their AF flying over Ukraine to support them.

Moldova USED TO have 29 MiG fighters according to Wikipedia

"In 1994 the Moldovan Air Force consisted of 1,300 men organized into one fighter regiment, one helicopter squadron, and one missile brigade.[5] Armaments used by the air force included thirty-one MiG-29 Fulcrum aircraft, eight Mi-8 Hip helicopters, five transport aircraft (including an Antonov An-72 Coaler), and twenty-five SA-3 Goa/SA-5 Gammon surface-to-air missiles.

The 86th Guards Fighter Aviation Regiment had been located at Mărculești since October 1951, and had been reequipped with MiG-29s in 1988.[8] It had been part of the 119th Fighter Aviation Division, which had been resubordinated to the Soviet Black Sea Fleet since December 1989.

Twenty-one of the MiG-29s were sold to the United States in October 1997 to prevent their sale on the world market, and for research purposes. All the spare parts for those aircraft were also purchased, as were the accompanying 500 air-to-air missiles. [9] All the aircraft were transported from Moldova to the National Air Intelligence Center (NAIC) at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base near Dayton, Ohio in Boeing C-17 Globemaster III transport planes over a period of two weeks.[10]

As of 2006 all the MiG-29 fighters had either been sold or scrapped, and the Moldovan Air Force had only 2 An-2 Colts, 1 An-26 Curl, 2 An-72 Coalers, 8 Mi-8 Hips, and 12 SA-3 'Goa' SAMs in service, manned by 1,040 personnel.[7]"
Click to expand...
Or just truck them over the border during the night...why the heck not. I guess if I was Queen of Moldova I'd do it. ;)
 
fred&edna said:
Wouldn't such labs be considered "Biosafety Labs"... assuming they are are working with pathogens and biological agents?? If so, they are located all over the world. Highest (containment) level is BSL-4. I'm sure additional info is available online (for many countries). jmo

eta: not all bio-agents are weapons of mass destruction. (and I could be way over my head in what I'm discussing ;))
Click to expand...

It's confusing, because latest information is that the two nuclear power stations that were invaded have gone offline, which could mean that their cooling systems are offline. There is reportedly a small amount of radioactive material that needs to be cooled to be safe in our human/mammal environment.

If this lab is not the physics research lab that was attacked at the largest nuclear power station in Ukraine, then where is it? If it is this particular lab, what does it have to do with vaccine? It doesn't make sense that a vaccine lab would be at a nuclear plant.

Am I getting my information all wrong? Do we know where this vaccine/ biological weapons plant is?
 
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