Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #6

[sunshineray]

What? Is this what Putin meant when he said he would unleash something the world had never seen before? Nuclear and biological weapon warfare?

Where is this facility located? Do we know that yet?

Not being said and there's more than one

 

[sunshineray]

Labs in the US have stocks of Anthrax and plague too. How else would we study these pathogens and develop treatments and vaccines? What matters is that the labs are safe, secure, and operate to the highest international standards.

NIAID BSL-3 Priority Pathogens – Tufts New England Regional Biosafety Laboratory

Yes and I have no problem with that but I do not always trust that is all that's being done with these pathogens...why? Because it seems to me that men love to war. AJMO

 

[Arkay]

Russian Lab Explosion Raises Question: Should Smallpox Virus Be Kept Or Destroyed?

I'm not very concerned about bio research labs that partner with the US and are kept safe, secure and guarded.

What I've worried about long, long before Covid is about Russia being one of only two countries in the world to have stored samples of smallpox.

As smallpox is the only virus ever to have been fully eradicated, I've never quite understood why samples are contained at the CDC in Atlanta and at a lab in Siberia. But I’m not a scientist, and I know that scientists have debated for decades whether or not these samples should be destroyed.

Also for decades, I’ve read about much of the world being concerned that the USSR, now again called Russia, would be one of the countries to have it. That’s due to mistrust in the various leadership of the country.

This article is from 2019 regarding the explosion that occurred in the Russian lab housing the smallpox sample. The article therefore is not about the present tragedy in Ukraine.

I’m posting it because in light of this present discussion about bio labs and Putin promising to do something drastic, this would be my actual fear. I cannot imagine that even Putin would unleash something like smallpox because he could not control the spread if he decided to let it loose. But one never knows what he may do.

IMO this talk about Ukraine planning a bio warfare attack is complete Russian disinformation. It’s junk talk. But in real life,Putin does have access to smallpox.

 

[Sundog]

Russian Lab Explosion Raises Question: Should Smallpox Virus Be Kept Or Destroyed?

I'm not very concerned about bio research labs that partner with the US and are kept safe, secure and guarded.

What I've worried about long, long before Covid is about Russia being one of only two countries in the world to have stored samples of smallpox.

As smallpox is the only virus ever to have been fully eradicated, I've never quite understood why samples are contained at the CDC in Atlanta and at a lab in Siberia. But I’m not a scientist, and I know that scientists have debated for decades whether or not these samples should be destroyed.

Also for decades, I’ve read about much of the world being concerned that the USSR, now again called Russia, would be one of the countries to have it. That’s due to mistrust in the various leadership of the country.

This article is from 2019 regarding the explosion that occurred in the Russian lab housing the smallpox sample. The article therefore is not about the present tragedy in Ukraine.

I’m posting it because in light of this present discussion about bio labs and Putin promising to do something drastic, this would be my actual fear. I cannot imagine that even Putin would unleash something like smallpox because he could not control the spread if he decided to let it loose. But one never knows what he may do.

IMO this talk about Ukraine planning a bio warfare attack is complete Russian disinformation. It’s junk talk. But in real life,Putin does have access to smallpox.

<modsnip: opinion stated as fact> Also, we don't have to look very hard to find a more recent example.

'Forgotten' US smallpox vials found in cardboard box.

 

[Vern]

Update for 10 March
Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, March 10 | Institute for the Study of War (understandingwar.org)

The likelihood is increasing that Ukrainian forces could fight to a standstill the Russian ground forces attempting to encircle and take Kyiv. Russian forces also appear to be largely stalemated around Kharkiv and distracted from efforts to seize that city. Russian advances in the south around Mykolayiv and toward Zaporizhya and in the east around Donetsk and Luhansk made little progress as well in the last 24 hours. Russia likely retains much greater combat power in the south and east and will probably renew more effective offensive operations in the coming days, but the effective reach and speed of such operations is questionable given the general performance of the Russian military to date. There are as yet no indications that the Russian military is reorganizing, reforming, learning lessons, or taking other measures that would lead to a sudden change in the pace or success of its operations, although the numerical disparities between Russia and Ukraine leave open the possibility that Moscow will be able to restore rapid mobility or effective urban warfare to the battlefield.

Russian forces around Kyiv did not attempt to renew offensive operations on a multi-battalion scale on March 10 following the failure of limited efforts on March 8-9. Ukrainian forces badly damaged a Russian armored column in the Brovary area east of Kyiv, likely further disrupting Russian efforts to set conditions for offensive operations on the east bank of the Dnipro. Ukrainian resistance all along the Russian lines of communication from eastern Kyiv to the Russian border near Sumy continues to disrupt Russian efforts to bring more combat power to bear near the capital. The episodic, limited, and largely unsuccessful Russian offensive operations around Kyiv increasingly support the Ukrainian General Staff’s repeated assessments that Russia lacks the combat power near the capital to launch successful offensive operations on a large scale.

Key Takeaways

• Russian operations around Kyiv remained largely stalled over the past 24 hours.
• Ukrainian forces badly damaged a Russian armored unit east of the capital, likely disrupting Russian efforts to encircle or assault the city from the east.
• Russian forces continue to struggle in efforts to seize Chernihiv city and to secure the long ground lines of communication from Sumy, which the Ukrainians still hold, to eastern Kyiv.
• A new Russian invasion from western Belarus, with or without Belarusian ground forces’ support, appears increasingly unlikely.
• Russian forces remain pinned down attempting to reduce Mariupol by siege and bombardment.
• Russian efforts to bypass Mykolayiv and establish a reliable ground line of communication across the Southern Bug River to the north of Mykolayiv remain stalled.
• Ukrainian air force and air defense operations continue to hinder Russian ground forces maneuver by likely limiting Russian close air support and exposing Russian mechanized forces to Ukrainian air and artillery attacks.

Immediate items to watch

• Russian forces around Kyiv may undertake another operational pause to prepare for renewed efforts to encircle Kyiv from east and west and/or to seize the city center itself following their failures of the previous 48 hours;
• Russian troops may drive on Zaporizhya city itself within the next 48-72 hours, likely attempting to block it from the east and set conditions for subsequent operations after Russian forces besieging Mariupol take that city;
• Russian forces may attempt amphibious landings anywhere along the Black Sea Coast from Odesa to the mouth of the Southern Bug River in the next 24-48 hours.

 

[Dontknow?]

NBC News
@NBCNews
1m

NEW: U.S. Senate votes 68-31 to pass a $1.5T spending bill that would prevent a government shutdown and provide $13.6B in emergency aid for Ukraine; the legislation now heads to President Biden's desk.

 

[fred&edna]

I found an interactive map for the world's deadly germ studies:

A New Interactive Map Reveals Where the Deadliest Germs Are Studied

jmo... I think the bio research facility talk is a mole hill that became a mountain due to Russian lies and dumb twitters (QAnon).

 

[otto]

Beseiging a city sounds somewhat like martial law. Is that what Ukraine faces after the Russian demolition of Ukraine? What does that look like? Is Russia prepared to rebuild Ukraine better than it was before the invasion?

 

[cujenn81]

U.S. Battles Russia and China on Ukraine War Disinformation

WASHINGTON — One of Russia’s most incendiary disinformation campaigns ramped up days ago, when its defense and foreign ministries issued statements falsely claiming that the Pentagon was financing biological weapons labs in Ukraine.

Then Chinese diplomats and state media organizations repeated the conspiracy theory at news conferences in Beijing, in articles and on official social media accounts.

Now, the Biden White House has taken the extraordinary step of calling out both countries on their coordinated propaganda campaign and saying they might be providing cover for a potential biological or chemical weapons attack on Ukrainians by the Russian military.

“Now that Russia has made these false claims, and China has seemingly endorsed this propaganda, we should all be on the lookout for Russia to possibly use chemical or biological weapons in Ukraine, or to create a false flag operation using them,” Jen Psaki, the White House press secretary, wrote on Twitter on Wednesday evening. “It’s a clear pattern.”

Using news conferences, state media and the social media accounts of diplomats around the world, China has been trying to inflame the situation with fiery rhetoric and conspiracy theories rooted in Russian disinformation, say current and former U.S. officials and independent researchers. As Mr. Xi was talking to the European leaders on Tuesday, Zhao Lijian, a Foreign Ministry spokesman whom many Chinese citizens hail as a fiercely patriotic “wolf warrior” diplomat, raised the issue of biochemical weapons in Ukraine at a news conference in Beijing, asserting that “Russia has found during its military operations that the U.S. uses these facilities to conduct bio-military plans.”

“It has 26 bio-labs and other related facilities in Ukraine, over which the U.S. Department of Defense has absolute control,” he said. “All dangerous pathogens in Ukraine must be stored in these labs and all research activities are led by the U.S. side.”

Mr. Zhao has spread anti-U.S. conspiracy theories to try to deflect criticism of China’s poor handling of the initial coronavirus outbreak in Wuhan and questions over the research of the Wuhan Institute of Virology. He said in March 2020 that the U.S. military might have brought the virus to Wuhan and asserted that research at Fort Detrick, Md., might have been at the root of the pandemic. He mentioned Fort Detrick again on Thursday.

Chinese state media have repeated the entire range of official Russian statements on the Ukraine war, from the false assertion that Ukraine is full of neo-Nazis to arguments that the United States is an “empire of lies” pulling the puppet strings of Kyiv.

Global Times, a nationalistic newspaper published by the Communist Party, posted an article on Tuesday that said the U.S. government was trying to stir up anger against China over the Ukraine war by planting stories in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal and Voice of America. Other stories in Chinese state media accused Ukraine of using civilians as human shields, a Kremlin talking point, while avoiding any mention of civilian deaths at the hands of the Russian military.

 

[Herat]

In regards to reliable news sources, regarding the UK:

I have found The Telegraph UK to be a great source of news. They have a good perspective on many aspects that seem very pertinent and well-chosen. I can't vouce for it's total veracity, but the articles are done by a professional journalistic outlet, not a tabloid hybrid like DM.

I also like Times of London, although they are more focused on financial and sports news.

I like The Spectator for it's reviews.

I still read BBC, but they've gotten themselves in a mess recently/

(disclaimer: I'm not in the UK. I don't know all the options out there for UK news. The first three are behind paywalls. If you were to subscribe, I'd do the Telegraph UK)

 

[Herat]

There must be some fear-mongering in all this bizarre reporting we've had about the Russian Ukraine conflict. Russia is using fear-mongering with threats of nuclear contamination. Everyone thought nuclear bomb at first, but now they're thinking contamination from nuclear power station.

What is real, and what is double-speak sensationalism?

Is Putin so weak he has to resort to disinformation and faux news?

 

[CrimeAway]

Russian Lab Explosion Raises Question: Should Smallpox Virus Be Kept Or Destroyed?

I'm not very concerned about bio research labs that partner with the US and are kept safe, secure and guarded.

What I've worried about long, long before Covid is about Russia being one of only two countries in the world to have stored samples of smallpox.

As smallpox is the only virus ever to have been fully eradicated, I've never quite understood why samples are contained at the CDC in Atlanta and at a lab in Siberia. But I’m not a scientist, and I know that scientists have debated for decades whether or not these samples should be destroyed.

Also for decades, I’ve read about much of the world being concerned that the USSR, now again called Russia, would be one of the countries to have it. That’s due to mistrust in the various leadership of the country.

This article is from 2019 regarding the explosion that occurred in the Russian lab housing the smallpox sample. The article therefore is not about the present tragedy in Ukraine.

I’m posting it because in light of this present discussion about bio labs and Putin promising to do something drastic, this would be my actual fear. I cannot imagine that even Putin would unleash something like smallpox because he could not control the spread if he decided to let it loose. But one never knows what he may do.

IMO this talk about Ukraine planning a bio warfare attack is complete Russian disinformation. It’s junk talk. But in real life,Putin does have access to smallpox.

I am also concerned about Russia having smallpox samples, but even if they agreed to destroy them, I'm not sure that we could trust that they would. Russia has deployed radioactive and chemical weapons in assassination attempts in the UK (polonium and novichok).
Poisoning of Alexander Litvinenko - Wikipedia

Poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal - Wikipedia

With reference to smallpox, I am always willing to listen to the TWIV virologists' opinions, and hope that those in the US will feel some comfort that the US government holds enough smallpox vaccine to cover everyone in the USA:

Vaccination Strategies | Smallpox | CDC

 

[PommyMommy]

[URL='https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/mar/10/ukraine-news-russia-war-kyiv-vladimir-putin-volodymyr-zelenskiy-russian-invasion-hospital-bombing-latest-live-updates']Russia-Ukraine war latest news: half of Kyiv population has fled, mayor says; Turkey talks end without progress on ceasefire | World news | The Guardian[/URL]
2h ago 13:48

Recently released satellite images made available by US space technology firm Maxar Technologies provide a closer look at the unfolding situation on the ground in Ukraine.

The photos reveal a massive convoy of Russian troops that had stalled outside the Ukrainian capital largely dispersed and redeployed out into towns and forests near Kyiv, with artillery pieces moved into firing positions.

One image shows some of Russian military vehicles repositioned along a line of trees near the village of Lubyanka, about 50km north-west of Kyiv.

[...]

52m ago 03:37

US president Joe Biden will ratchet up the economic pressure on Vladimir Putin on Friday by calling for the end of normal trade relations with Russia, according to reports.

[...]

Removing Russia’s status of “permanent normal trade relations” will require an act of Congress, one senior administration official told Reuters. But lawmakers in both houses of Congress have expressed support for such a move.

[...]

22m ago 04:06

The White House has just confirmed reports that US president Joe Biden will announce new actions on Friday to continue to hold Russia accountable for its unprovoked and unjustified war on Ukraine.

[...]

9m ago 04:21

The Ukrainian military has just released its daily operational report this morning, confirming earlier reports suggesting Russian troops had dispersed to regroup and replenish supplies.

According to the general staff of the armed forces of Ukraine, Russian forces have slowed in their advance while some have retreated back to Russian territory.

In the Black Sea and Azov operating zones, Ukrainian authorities said weather conditions “were on our side and forced the occupier ships to return to naval bases and base points”.

 

[PommyMommy]

NEXTA on Twitter - Video
Seven-year-old Amelia, who cheered up the people in the shelter by singing a song from the cartoon "Frozen," managed to get out of #Ukraine. She is now with relatives in #Poland.

NEXTA on Twitter
A priest from Kostroma region has to pay 35,000 ₽ for anti-#war preaching. Priest Ioan Burdin was found guilty under the new Article of the Administrative Code of the Russian Federation, which prohibits calls to non-use of the armed forces.

 

[PommyMommy]

GOP senators urge Biden to send Polish warplanes to Ukraine | AP News
[...]

Forty GOP senators signed onto a letter from Sens. Joni Ernst of Iowa and Mitt Romney of Utah urging President Joe Biden to answer the plea from Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, who told lawmakers over the weekend that if the U.S. could not help with a no-fly zone over his skies, it could at least send more planes for his people to defend against the attack from Russia.

“Enough talk. People are dying,” Romney said at a press conference on Capitol Hill. “Send them the planes they need.”

The groundswell of Republican opposition to the Pentagon’s rejection of Poland’s offer has apparently caught the attention of the highest ranks of the administration — senators said Gen. Mark Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, was reaching out in calls to Capitol Hill.

[...]

Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine, said it’s hard to see the destruction — especially the Russian airstrike on a maternity hospital — and be opposed to providing the Ukrainians “with these essential aircraft.”

[...]

 

[Charlot123]

I'm wary of the pendulum swinging too far to the west and allowing China to sweep in and provide all those services and products. I have to think the Chinese would just love to be selling Chinese-made Toyotas to Russia, too.

Marriott and International Hotels surprises me a bit. I guess they fear losing their brick and mortar investments. Hard to think of how they can maintain standards with a massively shrinking international guest population and a local population who's budgets don't allow western hotel travel anymore.

Not only cars, cellphones, that are not bad. Some people here like them. Problem is, Chinese merchandise is getting better. Some of our famed designers have lines made in China, I haven't checked Ferragamo. I used to buy from an online store featuring young Chinese designers. So if the labels have left the Russian market, the same producers may, essentially, return, minus the label costs. As to oil, someone once explained that oil was oil. Sold at the world market, even ISIS managed to sell its own via the middleman. Happens all the time. Just scary that life is so darn unpredictable.

 

[Charlot123]

Yes, it is a small eastern port city in a highly strategic location for Russia. If they can seize it, they will be able to unite their forces geographically. They are showing no mercy, refusing to allow an evacuation route, IMO, because that will allow supplies and reinforcements in.

"The city was without electricity, heat, drinking water and gas, he added, saying the Russian Federation was effectively holding 350,000 people hostage."

No longer scared – just tired: conditions in Mariupol now ‘medieval’

I looked at the map. The biggest road to the North leads to Donetsk republic. To to the South is the Sea and the Crimean peninsula where I assume the Russian troops are. To the West, is Kherson and Melitopol (taken by Russian troops). So to try and get out is very hard, plus "out" would still be something like Poltava, it is very far from Ukraine's Western borders.

But do can you see what the plan is for the Southern part of the country? To cut the Black Sea Coast off and get to the Transdnistria. So this is where the fights might be horrible.

I think that Odessa is close to the Moldova border and its citizens can escape... All countries bordering Ukraine on the West have opened borders, even Transdnistria lets Ukrainians through.

 

[Charlot123]

Why Vladimir Putin's war has not been swift

(...)

Eoin McNamara is a research fellow at the Finnish Institute of International Affairs. He says: "Russia, at least in the early phases of this war, has relied on a lot of conscript soldiers, very young men, only just out of school, and often away from home for the first time [have been] sent to the border with Ukraine over the last few months".

He says while these things can happen in war planning, the conscripts "have essentially been lied to, they were told that they were just going for training exercises and all of a sudden they find themselves in live battle against the very, very motivated enemy on the ground defending their country in Ukraine.

"So, morale is low, motivation is low and experience is low, and this has led Russia to suffer quite a number of battlefield casualties."

(...)

Mr McNamara says because they are now bitter adversaries, we forget that these two states were once part of the same union, and that senior Ukrainian army officers would have received a remarkably similar military education to the Russians.

"The Ukrainians knew how the Russians were likely to fight." (BBM)

He cites the typical Russian military doctrine of putting their armour out in front.

"That armour blitzes the opposition and then the logistics, which are the lifeblood of any army as it moves forward, delivering ammunition, delivering fuel, delivering food and other supplies to soldiers as they march forward."

But Mr McNamara says the Ukrainians hit the Russian supply chains, after letting the armour go through.

"In this asymmetric conflict that should otherwise advantage Russia, that [targeting of logistics] has devastated Russia's advance and has now probably made Vladimir Putin's vision of a short and sharp...victory an impossibility."

(...)

Another factor that may have slowed Russia’s progress in Ukraine is the quality of the intelligence President Putin was relying on before waging war.

Domitilla Sagramoso is a senior lecturer at the Department of War Studies at King's College London.

She blames this on the structure of the Russian political system, that is firmly ruled from the top with little room for dissent.

"It’s possible that within the intelligence community, analysts may feel that they had to provide a particular kind of answer [to Putin]."

She says they were probably never provided with enough information ahead of the invasion to properly war-game scenarios.

"It seems to have been the case that Putin decided to keep the decision to actually use force so secret that the analysts were not asked to really examine these scenarios."

Dr Sagramoso says it’s clear there were serious problems inside the structures of the Russian intelligence community.

She says it’s ironic and indeed quite astonishing, given Vladimir Putin’s background in the world of espionage, adding "That's the area where one would have expected him to really know how things work."

(...)

It is from the old bureaucratic culture. So, there is a saying in Russian, "don't bring your boss sh@t on a shovel". Meaning, to advance, you have to enter the boss's office with pleasant news. It is how people advance in their careers.

 

[Charlot123]

Russia forbids communication and demands names of people leaving the area or the country? Putin is interested in Ukrainian children orphaned by the Russian demolition of Ukraine?

Russia must have full control of the country to make those kind of demands?? It sounds somewhat like the Gestapo. Does Putin have some sort of dystopian vision of the future where he is world leader?

About children, Google Dima Yakovlev Law.

 

[Charlot123]

Does anyone here speak Russian or Ukrainian? I found something from a source but I'd like to know someone can translate it.

I speak Russian. It is pretty easy to understand written Ukrainian. As to spoken Ukrainian, depends on who is speaking. Definitely not "zapadentsy" (Western Ukrainians).