Russian passenger plane crashes in Sinai, Egypt Prime Minister says, 31 OCT 2015

[watcher9]

OT

Re BBM

I remember that accident very well at the time. I didn't remember why it happened and that is interesting that the autopilot was accidentally turned off with an accidental touching of the steering.

It makes sense how that could happen in the dark and not know autopilot is off. It sounds like automobile cruise control when you touch your breaks how it goes off automatically. Sounds similar to turn off autopilot by touching the steering.

Other planes are probably different now to make sure pilots take some other action to turn it off. At the time it would have been something nobobdy would have ever thought could cause such a disaster.

That was a terrible accident because the plane fell in a very remote part of everglades which was hard to get rescue to.

Thanks for sharing the reminder story.

And sorry to our poster who knew the copilot family. Sad to hear but please know there are many of us who still remember about that sad time.

I keep confusing this L-1011 flight 401 with the ValuJet flight 592 which also crashed into the Everglades some 23 years later. To refresh my memory I found this site which gives the 401 flight story. Click at the top to get to each section.

https://sites.google.com/site/eastern401/home

 

[trigger]

Could they be....flying under the radar??? :blushing: (all things considered)

Is THAT even possible???...

:dunno:

ETA: :thinking: invisible cloak anic:

Maybe they use a drone???

 

[CARIIS]

last couple seconds of TWA 800

20:30:25	CAM-1	climb thrust.
20:30:28	CAM-1	climb to one five thousand.
20:30:35	CAM-3	power's set.
20:30:42	CAM	(( sound similar to a mechanical movement in cockpit))
20:31:03	CAM	*.
20:31:05	CAM	(( sounds similar to recording tape damage noise)).
20:31:12		end of recording. They did the same silliness with TWA 800 it wa a bomb it was a bomb . It was not a bomb - the center fuel tank was empty, vapors only, electrical spark and boom Air India bomb 07.13:44 FE London operation ko bolna. 07.13:45 COP Hun. 07.13:47 FE Flight Purser. They want about 30 Custom seals. 07.13:50 COP Customs. 07.13:52 FE Custom seals. Wo Bar seal karane ke liye. 07.13:54 For their arrival - Customs Bar --- 07.14:01 (Sound) end of recording They are saying here 5 seconds befor end og recfording Metro... avianca air bomb 2133:04 APPR: Avianca zero five two heavy, you're one five miles from the outer marker, maintain two thousand until established on the localizer. Cleared for ILS two two left. 2133:12 RDO-?: Roger, Avianca. 2133:14 APPR: Clipper eighteen twelve, turn left, heading two two zero. 2133:22 CAM-1: Did you select the ILS? 2133:22 CAM-2: It is ready on two. 2133:24 (End of recording) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_airliner_bombing_attacks I am opening a new window maybe i can rid of the way its cut and pastin!

 

[CARIIS]

Here is example of when a CVR can reallyhelp invdtigators . Basically they were lost and flew in a moutain
2141:22 Cockpit Area Microphone: [Sound of autopilot disconnect warning. Sound of aircraft stick shaker stops]
2141:23 First Officer: Nope.
2141:24 Captain: Up baby...
2141:25 Cockpit Area Microphone: [Sound of aircraft stick shaker starts and continues to impact]
2141:25 Captain: ...More more.
2141:26 First Officer: OK.
2141:26 Captain: Up, up, up.
2141:27 Cockpit Area Microphone: Whoop, whoop, pull up.

End of CVR recording.

Stickshaker exactly what it sounds like a warming device that shakes the yoke (steering wheel violant to warn the cre that they are about to stall the plane)​

Read More on These Topics

• Flight Safety / Accidents

 

[CARIIS]

they are not cut and pasting correctly- sorry forgot...all the CAM stuff and HOT is which microphoes are picking up the auduio. There are typically three mics one for capt one for copilot and another that records general noises in cockpit.

They can get a lot of stuff off this one in conjunction with the other two - rpm of engines increasing decreasing, warnings,vibrations , what knobs the crew are turning, what levers they are moving , the stick shaker is noisy its really amazing stuff actuially!

Then they correlate that with the flight data recorder which is telling the how the aircraft is behaving -- is it doing what the crew is attempting to make the machine do ....pull up crew wants to raise nose , but FDR is showing a plane is going nose down -- so all connected can mean that the plane is in a stall , all kinds of stuff.

In the old days the only recorded like 4 things . New ones dozens

also way it was cut and pasting had trouble - so here are some links
http://www.airdisaster.com/investigations/us427/usair427.shtml
https://www.google.com/search?q=spe....10948j0j8&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8


http://www.airdisaster.com/cvr/transcripts.shtml

http://www.airdisaster.com/cvr/dl191tr.shtml

http://www.airdisaster.com/cvr/ae4184tr.shtml

 

[SophieRose]

http://www.arabnews.com/middle-east/news/833186

Flight numbers have been limited because both Russia and Britain have banned tourists from bringing their check-in luggage, which will be flown home separately.
That restriction has prompted Egypt to limit the number of daily repatriation flights because it says there is only so much baggage its airports can accommodate.

 

[CARIIS]

CARIIS here are some pictures of the Aloha passenger plane.
This is what can happen when a passenger plane starts to come apart in mid-flight.
As you can see the plane made it safely to the ground.

It is the only in aviation history!! OPPSS A nATIOIAL dC-HOUSTON Made it down also cargo door blew off there is some in that celing blwoing off is different than a whole chunk of you directional control falling off your machine!! Reverse it -- its idetical to the steering wheel coming off in your hand vs having a tire blow out on expresway !

There has never been a tailstrike improper repair bulkhead blow out did anything but crash............... different scenario !

There have been accidnets (US Air ) just had one where , also in the ceiling (was not as dramatic as ALoha! ) It landed fine, didnt sever any control entities...

 

[Momoffourboys]

http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/egyptia...nspiracy-in-airliner-bombing-claims-1.2650914

Egyptian media see Western conspiracy in airliner bombing claims

 

[e-sherlockholmes]

I'm wondering what the angle is for why the Russians are apparently refusing to say this was a terrorist act?

I can understand why the Egyptians are spinning it in that direction - as it sheds a negative spotlight on Egypt's total lack of security and that ultimately hits their tourism. But the Russians?

Maybe admitting this was an attack might be seen as creating controversy in the domestic political front about their Syrian air campaigns? But then, if they are worried about domestic politics, why wouldn't they be spinning this story, like everybody else would and certainly they themselves have done in the past, into bolstering the air campaign and fight against terrorists?

Everybody else would be spinning this event to bolster the war on terror. So I don't understand why the Russians are denying this was terror related, as evidence seems clear what had happened. Maybe they are just trying to be thorough before making official confirmations. But even still, usually at this stage, they won't outright deny or reject a certain direction suggested. Most would just handle it as a tacit admission via a quiet nod until the full report is in.

 

[CARIIS]

I'm wondering what the angle is for why the Russians are apparently refusing to say this was a terrorist act?

I can understand why the Egyptians are spinning it in that direction - as it sheds a negative spotlight on Egypt's total lack of security and that ultimately hits their tourism. But the Russians?

Maybe admitting this was an attack might be seen as creating controversy in the domestic political front about their Syrian air campaigns? But then, if they are worried about domestic politics, why wouldn't they be spinning this story, like everybody else would and certainly they themselves have done in the past, into bolstering the air campaign and fight against terrorists?

Everybody else would be spinning this event to bolster the war on terror. So I don't understand why the Russians are denying this was terror related, as evidence seems clear what had happened. Maybe they are just trying to be thorough before making official confirmations. But even still, usually at this stage, they won't outright deny or reject a certain direction suggested. Most would just handle it as a tacit admission via a quiet nod until the full report is in.

This was great it explained a lot of the behind the scenes shannigans -- from PBS- explains what putin has to get orgzied before he goes public

[video=youtube;xyGPMeopwb4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyGPMeopwb4[/video]

 

[CARIIS]

Egypt has done this dance before : 1999 egypt air went down off Mass we concluded pilotdid it Egypt refused to accept that finding


MH 17 same dance -- geopolitics

PBS newshour

 

[CARIIS]

Oh, lets add to the mess over there

[h=1]Grounded: Lufthansa cancels 1,000 flights as staff walks out[/h]
http://money.cnn.com/2015/11/09/news/companies/lufthansa-strike/

 

[CARIIS]

why would the copilots family member make that statement very quickly after it went down ? "technical"?

 

[CARIIS]

Wolf interivewed a top Egyption leader. He stuttered when cnn asked directly if (egypt head dude) if FBi wil be allowed onto site
total bs answer ,,well ugh if the internationial aviation will allow--bs, it is the FBI that are the top explosive reesidue folks, not an aviation accident entity.

Britsh German French American, will will ask/invite FBI to please come on down immediatly. In fact FBI was given ability to do its own investigation.... in TWA until FBI could r/o explosives. There was some friction ..

There was much initial speculation that a terrorist attack was the cause of the crash.[SUP][3] [/SUP][SUP]][/SUP]Consequently, the Federal Bureau of Investigation(FBI) initiated a parallel criminal investigation.[SUP][6][/SUP]Sixteen months later, the FBI announced that no evidence had been found of a criminal act and closed its active investigation.[SUP][7]

[/SUP]Then NTSB took it ...............The four-year NTSB investigation....................
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_800

Wolf then asked if NTSB allowed no yes or no , Egypt guy cited (which is true) any party that has something to do with plane ( in this case engines)..He basically made it sound like well by law cause the engines are american made .....when asked if NTSB can have acess to the whole debris feild he did not answer .

By internationial law NTSB legally, has right to be there....engines made in america.

. \\ Here is how it works ....."at that meeting, each party to the investigation--such as the FAA, air carrier, airframe manufacturer, engine manufacturer, the ALPA, and the airport authority ATC--designates a spokesperson or coordinator who is responsible for supervising its specialists on the NTSB team. Each party coordinator is expected to report to and respond to the IIC’s directions..........
It is a cooperative undertaking, I have never heard of Boeing is only allowed to look at their parts, the folks who made the navigation insturments are only allowed to look at that part of the plane, engine manufactors are only allowed to look at the engines - not the way it works , if as a huge team, everyone on it, wants to find the truth.

FBI was involved in TWA 800 Intial concerns was bomb so FBI involved./ FBI was invoved in AIr India (was a bomb) and FBI wasvery involved in Lockerbie bombing . .

Pan AM:Solving the case required unprecedented international cooperation—and hours upon hours of painstaking work. With the mid-air explosion 30,000 feet up, debris rained down over 845 square miles across. Scotland asked for everyone to come. .FBI agents and international investigators combed the countryside on hands and knees looking........................... https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2003/december/panam121903

The same dance happened when Russia shot down KAL 747. They were both spying on each other while in the ocean looking for the black box, threatened to shoot at each other if anyone went over internationial waters into Russiaa waters.

Russia lied for decade saying it never fouond the black box, a decade later Russia let USA process the black boxes that they found - they kept them locked up in a safe, and lied about it for a dceade.

Ait India was bombed.....our FBI was invovled in that one....the assistant director of theF.B.I.'s New York office, ... In the crash of Air-India Flight 182,
http://www.nytimes.com/1996/08/07/nyregion/investigators-doubt-explosion-occurred-in-cockpit.html

The FBi was involved in 9-11 (which clearly involved airplanes !)

If egypt is 'so" sure why not let FBI come over? Like each of you, I do want an answer here.....................

 

[restarea]

why would the copilots family member make that statement very quickly after it went down ? "technical"?

They were grieving and trying to make some sense out of what happened like everyone else. For all we know he could have just complained to his daughter that the plane didn't have the latest and greatest technology/features like another plane he had been on and he was bored by how "basic" it was. The family provided no real details about what was said other than that he was speaking about something technical, not physical/mechanical.

 

[KALI]

I hope President Putin destroys their bombing capabilities, quickly.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/w...a-al-masri-portrait-of-the-egyptian-terrorist

Portrait of Egyptian terrorist-Abu Osama Al Masri

 

[CARIIS]

airlines announce that flights from Britain to the resort won't be resuming until November 26 at the earliest

There have been more Russian flights going out than flights to the UK.

Russians, as far as I'm aware, have not insisted on the additional security measures that we have imposed.' ( so does that mean he thinks mechanaical)

Confusing......there saying the beaches are empty now ...pics seem to indicate that , so where is everyone ...stqanding at the airport? If it was me Id go back to the beach and let it all drain off (airport)


Before

Now

use of bomb detectors at some hotels ...Across the resort, airport style scanners, sniffer dogs, body searches, metal detectors, private security, police and CCTV are being used to keep tourists safe.

I hate when our media do this Could it happen here? What are different than other homosapians/ What that really translates to is very few are watching any news

TSA is a joke

Here are the numbers:

Different exercises..

TSA failed 95% of airport security tests. ..
cnn

aanother test

SA agents failed 67 out of 70 tests,


https://www.oig.dhs.gov/assets/Mgmt/OIGr_07-57_Jul07.pdf

I am a trooper next..........
Ok this one is when (despite above numbers ) they want to start a expediated deal. That is like a auto factory that is spitting out cars with defects and they wanna speed the line up!

marching forward

wow this is the headline of the entire report

TSA not maitaining its equpipment

https://www.oig.dhs.gov/assets/Mgmt/2015/OIG_15-29_Feb15.pdf

Next report
they are fighting about TSA deleting the IG report:

ok then the next thing I checked out has redactions in it. So the persons who are suppossed to be checking the checkers ,checked the checkers , appartetnly the checkers found that was not happening. So the checked ones took out what the checkers found on the checker, now the checkers are mad that the checkers redacted what the checkers reported on the checkers!

So, who is correct here ? the upset checkers about the check , or checkers upset about what the checkers found about the checkers?

https://www.oig.dhs.gov/assets/pr/2015/oigpr_012315.pdf
The media reports on these reports

CNN reports on these reports all the time , but the headline

Could It Happen Here?

Have ceased searching on this topic!!

 

[CARIIS]

Hi trigger and bravo !

O/T Mini rant .............

Small business jet crashed into some apts in Akron Ohio , I am going local tv there I cant stand listening to possible future presidents of the united states of america confessing to stabbling people, hammers, building 45000 mile wall, it takes 8 years for a expressway add on.

IMO, it is a sitcom - like we dont dont have some more pressing issies, I think a good topic throughtout todnight, humm, humm I am picking Got it-------- terrorism,................silly me............ but what do I know

I truly believe we are the laughing stock around the world , fighting to be telling the truth about behaoviors that get "other" people in prison for life ..............................numbing numbing...............on to Ohio for latest on crash........................

 

[CARIIS]

Gos I feel sorry for anyone who plans on traveling in two weeks. Cancel and start walking (bike maybe) - it will be quicker! Every airport is gonna be so crazy , TSA is gonna knee jerk, internationially everyone is gonna be nutsola -- gonna be a mess....................

 

[MsFacetious]

The only reason the world knew about it -- was the plane was delayed - it was "set" to go off in the deep ocean..............

Most of the flight was over deep ocean.
They were cutting it close if they wanted it to go off over water.
Even on time the plane would have blown up on the coastline.

They could have set it long enough to get out over the water and account for delays.
Possible they wanted it over land to kill even more. :twocents: