Russian passenger plane crashes in Sinai, Egypt Prime Minister says, 31 OCT 2015

[Hatfield]

One question for anyone that knows anything about structure failure of airplanes involving cabin pressure. Lets assume for a minute that the tail strike weakend the tail of the plane and lets assume for a minute that is what caused it.

Would it make sense that the plane would break apart at the highest altitude?

We know the cabin is pressurized before takeoff so I am wondering if altitude also causes more stress on the cabin OR not? If the structure failed then why would it fail at the highest point. Shouldn't it have failed during pressurizing cabin while on ground?


The reason I am asking this is to see if this gives us a hint that maybe a bomb or not caused it. Because if altitude does not affect stress on the cabin pressure then it seems more likely a bomb. Because the plane should have had failure at any point before it got to top of altitude if structure was failing.

Just wanted to throw this thought out there since I don't know how altitude affects the stress or cabin pressure.

 

[Hatfield]

It's not necessary for anybody on a plane to be pulling a switch. Bomb could be on a timer, programmed to blow up at a certain time.

Agree but with common delays of planes taking off and landing it seems it would be risky to just set it for a certain time. In case the plane had to sit on runway for a delayed takeoff then it may have exploded on tarmac. If its a bomb then I am pretty sure the terrorists wanted to guarantee a midair explosion because it is much more dramatic for them and guarantees all would die.

If its a bomb then I am leaning towards a cell phone trigger where someone calls the number that rings the phone and the phone on the device triggers the explosion. I saw some other news about how terrorists make triggers using cell phones like that.

If it was a cell phone trigger then I think a person could actually call the phone from the ground too but I would think it would be a suicide bomber using a phone with walkie talkie capability to guarantee the other phone would ring.

But you are right that a timer could have been used too and someone just took a chance the flight would be on time as most probably are.

 

[Momoffourboys]

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/w...a-al-masri-portrait-of-the-egyptian-terrorist

Portrait of Egyptian terrorist-Abu Osama Al Masri

 

[Momoffourboys]

About the "mastermind".

He is said to have been trained at Cairo’s Al-Azhar University, the premier seat of learning in the Sunni Muslim world, and to be 42.

Beyond that, not much more is known about him - including his real name. Abu Osama al-Masri, “the father of Osama, from Egypt”, is a standard jihadist formulation designed to obscure his identity.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ho-may-have-brought-down-the-Russian-jet.html

 

[MsFacetious]

Lockerbie was a bomb on a timer.

 

[SophieRose]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-k-to-substantially-increase-intelligence-staff-1447085328

Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev said Monday that a bomb may have caused the downing of a passenger jet in Egypt, the strongest official acknowledgment to date by Russia that it may have been a terror incident.

snip

Russia was also joined by Israel on Monday in pointing to a terror attack. “There is a high probability, from what we understand, that this was a terrorist attack,” Israel’s Defense Minister Moshe Yaalon told Israeli reporters. Mr. Yaalon didn’t disclose the militant group involved.

 

[CARIIS]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-k-to-substantially-increase-intelligence-staff-1447085328

Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev said Monday that a bomb may have caused the downing of a passenger jet in Egypt, the strongest official acknowledgment to date by Russia that it may have been a terror incident.

snip

Russia was also joined by Israel on Monday in pointing to a terror attack. “There is a high probability, from what we understand, that this was a terrorist attack,” Israel’s Defense Minister Moshe Yaalon told Israeli reporters. Mr. Yaalon didn’t disclose the militant group involved.

Israeli thats huge --- they are the best on the planet in terms of intlegence

 

[CARIIS]

Lockerbie was a bomb on a timer.

The only reason the world knew about it -- was the plane was delayed - it was "set" to go off in the deep ocean..............

 

[WideOpen]

Yaalon noted that Israel is not involved in the investigation. He said his opinion was based on "what we hear and understand."

Israel borders Egypt's Sinai desert, the site of the crash. It maintains tight security ties with Egypt and keeps a close eye on Islamic militant groups operating in the desert peninsula.

http://news.yahoo.com/latest-airbus-confident-safety-a321-planes-082459531.html

jmo

 

[jjenny]

Lockerbie was a bomb on a timer.

It's the most logical way to build a bomb to go off on a plane. This way no passenger with a trigger has to be on board to blow themselves up.
Since majority of the flights leave on time, it's pretty easy to figure out when the bomb needs to go off.

 

[CARIIS]

guys help me pls - how come we are hearing all these reports that russia is sending all these rescue flights --- why is aprspace minimal on sites like lfighttracker
t=o get out 60000n people you care taking a LOT of aicraft == opinions pls

i have looked for the ast two days it ihas been quiet

 

[CARIIS]

Yaalon noted that Israel is not involved in the investigation. He said his opinion was based on "what we hear and understand."

Israel borders Egypt's Sinai desert, the site of the crash. It maintains tight security ties with Egypt and keeps a close eye on Islamic militant groups operating in the desert peninsula.

http://news.yahoo.com/latest-airbus-confident-safety-a321-planes-082459531.html

jmo

Isreal knows everything.......................same with MAL 370

 

[CARIIS]

Agree but with common delays of planes taking off and landing it seems it would be risky to just set it for a certain time. In case the plane had to sit on runway for a delayed takeoff then it may have exploded on tarmac. If its a bomb then I am pretty sure the terrorists wanted to guarantee a midair explosion because it is much more dramatic for them and guarantees all would die.

If its a bomb then I am leaning towards a cell phone trigger where someone calls the number that rings the phone and the phone on the device triggers the explosion. I saw some other news about how terrorists make triggers using cell phones like that.

If it was a cell phone trigger then I think a person could actually call the phone from the ground too but I would think it would be a suicide bomber using a phone with walkie talkie capability to guarantee the other phone would ring.

But you are right that a timer could have been used too and someone just took a chance the flight would be on time as most probably are.

Pan Am was timer , only reason why it hit lockerbie was it was late departing it was supposed to go down in deep ocean

 

[CARIIS]

One question for anyone that knows anything about structure failure of airplanes involving cabin pressure. Lets assume for a minute that the tail strike weakend the tail of the plane and lets assume for a minute that is what caused it.

Would it make sense that the plane would break apart at the highest altitude?

We know the cabin is pressurized before takeoff so I am wondering if altitude also causes more stress on the cabin OR not? If the structure failed then why would it fail at the highest point. Shouldn't it have failed during pressurizing cabin while on ground?


The reason I am asking this is to see if this gives us a hint that maybe a bomb or not caused it. Because if altitude does not affect stress on the cabin pressure then it seems more likely a bomb. Because the plane should have had failure at any point before it got to top of altitude if structure was failing.

Just wanted to throw this thought out there since I don't know how altitude affects the stress or cabin pressure.

The best way to descirbe this is imagine cracking a cracker in slow motion- sturtural failure is not sudden, its quick, but not like a bomb, think creaky door opening.

There is a starting point where a section is overstressed , but there is a "delay" (not long" where the adjacent metal starts to get overstressed cause now it is handling the stress the area that the failed one held.

So the crack propagates - then the area next to that goes through the same thing and fails , then it gets just big and the whole thing goes -- too much stress.....

it is slower than a bommb - that is whyt
he recorder recordered for 5 seconds before stopping ,, Pan AM Twa all well, cocpit recorder dead that is it

............this one had 5 seconds which is a slow start to the disaster , what they are reffering to "unusual noises" is the structure starting to overstress, its presurized , but if you squeeze a ballon, sa opposed to slcing it with a knife there is gonna be a difference -- -of course there are unusaul noises , if you slowly let air out of a tire there is a "noise"!

If you knife a tire - there is a noise also but its different and quicker

Jal 123, (slow is relative ) but it was not like Pan or TWA both of them would fit into our notions of instant ,, JAl (seconds) but still seconds

propogate is the best word!!!

 

[mrsward]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ge-tourist-s-room-smuggled-Sharm-airport.html


This is so possible.. Upon checking out of our room in sharm. We was told to leave our luggage in the lobby along with everyone else's , check out was at midday , some flights didn't leave until 10 hrs later ,

It would be so easy to plant a bomb ..

I feel sick thinking about just how easy it is ....

 

[CARIIS]

I have been frustrated that any news about chemical testing for bomb residue has not been completed or told to us by now.

That should not take too long. Why so long? It seems that is the simplest way to prove a bomb. Chemical testing of components near where they think explosion took place.

Put in Gas Chromatograph and results are quickly obtained. So wondering what is taking so long. Maybe the tests are not showing bomb residue. If so, then they should release that news so far.

It is strange about that to me why we haven't heard one way or other yet about the testing.

If it is a bomb that caused it then another thing I am wondering about is the trigger mechanism of the bomb.

We know the plane had trouble around 30,000 feet. So that would mean the trigger could be atmospheric pressure related or maybe someone on plane with a cell phone to trigger.

The trigger will be interesting because how did they make it go off precicely at the cruising altitude.

Anyway, lets hope investigators give some news that is definitely telling us one way or another. Everyhting is so iffy so far about what could have caused it. The chatter does seem to indicate bomb but there has to be supporting evidence too.

Thank you my dear that is what I have been screaming -- ya got a Q Tip - you can swab stuff - that is what they do ,, Q tips ! This is all BS --- its time for everyone behind the scenes to figure out what they are gonna do it sonly geo politcal at this point -- you Q tip stick in a chemical , it it turns blue red blows your hand or head off , a spectrgraph needle goes lefft or right -- this is NOT a 12 day ordeal -- theyare trying to do bomb-- but they cant find any physical wreckage that would back that up - and there are some verylegiimate accident investigating agencies that are not gonna put up with this so they are in a quagmire ---think Snowden!

I know they know it was not a bommb, could those honest agencies tell on me ( that is why7 IMO Egypt is stalling ............what are britain germany and behind the scenes NTSB gonna if you flat out lie

Now, may they all end working it out that it is best to lie well that politics , but they are pressurized tubes , its common sense , if something inside blew up . the pressure would go outward .....metal bends the way the forces come there is a difference between putting some thing on fire and hot inside a tire or a leak (which the trail strike would resemble - its slower ) it not an explosive force in and of itself .............

 

[Momoffourboys]

I bet there is a heck of a lot more intelligence than we know...

http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-hosts-its-largest-ever-international-air-force-exercise/

Israel hosts its largest-ever international air force exercise

"Israeli, American, Greek, and Polish air personnel square off against a fictional enemy state in two-week drill"

I, absolutely, do not believe this was the cause of the crash. BUT... With that many jets flying in the area...there must be enough info for the bomb theory. IMO

 

[Meryl12]

CARIIS here are some pictures of the Aloha passenger plane.
This is what can happen when a passenger plane starts to come apart in mid-flight.
As you can see the plane made it safely to the ground.

 

[tarabull]

guys help me pls - how come we are hearing all these reports that russia is sending all these rescue flights --- why is aprspace minimal on sites like lfighttracker
t=o get out 60000n people you care taking a LOT of aicraft == opinions pls

i have looked for the ast two days it ihas been quiet

Could they be....flying under the radar??? :blushing: (all things considered)

Is THAT even possible???...

:dunno:

ETA: :thinking: invisible cloak anic:

 

[SophieRose]

http://www.theguardian.com/business...d-two-more-weeks-security-russian-plane-crash

Thousands of Russians were at the head of the exodus on Monday. Moscow said about 25,000 of its tourists had now returned, on more than 100 flights.

Some travel firms and restaurant owners in Sharm are already considering closing down as tourists drain away from the resort, with bargain prices powerless to lure visitors while incoming flights are suspended. Tourism accounts for about 12% of Egypt’s GDP, with one in nine Egyptians working in the industry, according to the World Travel and Tourism Council.

snip

Eleven flights carrying a total of 2,301 passengers left Sharm el-Sheikh for Britain on Monday.