SC - Columbia - Sheriff Slams Female Student to Floor In Class - #2

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I really like the idea of an alternative school - removes the kid, is a real consequence, kids hate social isolation, doesn't require parental involvement, and leaves cops out of the handling of routine problems.

As for cuffing kids for violence, hauling them into court, and making them take anger management classes?? Bravo, and where the heck is that? What a favor to those kids, whether they see it that way at the time or not.

They have to appear in court with their parent or guardian. If they have been skipping school the judge asks them if they want to see their parent in jail, because it was up to them to see their in school. Other than fighting and skipping school, too many detentions, not handing in work repeatedly etc can get you at the alternative school. They do want to get back to friends and more importantly they can go back to regular clothes. The shortest reassignment is about six weeks.
 
If she applied for college they could access that info. I don't see that being an issue here. Folks that have issues (as far as the college is concerned) would just be denied admission. jmo idk

Theres the key!!!

How can we make kids in high school and grade school appreciate and realize that they should want to be there for their own benefit in the long run?

It can be done better than we are doing. We don't explain the benefits to them enough IMO. We just tell them simple things like its for your own good. Blah Blah Blah but they don't really understand. If we can get to them this point then we can change a lot of attitudes in them.

It becomes quite obvious to the student as soon as college admission is attempted.
Bad grades? - You cant go to the college school you wanted to go to
Really bad grades? - You cant go to college at all.
Really good grades ? - Colleges will be fighting themselves for you

And this is all without parents even being part of the discussion. So when kids are really young I think we need to do better at explaining the long term repercussions to where they want to be there.

Its too simplistic with the "you cant do this or you cant do that". I don't think kids really understand why they are being told these rules.

This is one area where we could improve and have the kids helping themselves and behaving better because they want to. Not because they are being forced to.
I know its much simpler said than done and I do think certain parents or lack thereof is partly to blame in a lot of cases.
 
The two students involved in the Spring Valley incident – the young woman who was pulled from her desk and another female student, Niya Kenny, who was arrested after shouting at the deputy and school employees to stop – have been charged with disturbing schools.

http://www.thestate.com/news/local/article42104361.html

Disturbing schools is the third most frequent referral offense that lands children in the South Carolina’s juvenile justice system, according to state Department of Juvenile Justice statistics from 2013-14.

Nearly 1,200 disturbing schools cases were generated statewide during that period, including 98 cases from Richland County.

Lott calls the state’s disturbing schools statute “the worst law ever passed.”

bbm

Re BBM

A lot of us wondered why the other students just sat there and ignored what was going on and I think we now know why. The other kids knew that person was in deep doo doo at that point and they were afraid of what was going to happen to them if they acted up or interfered with the persons removal.

I wonder if the other kids were threatened that when the officer person comes they had better just sit still and not say anything otherwise they may get a stiff penalty too.

It was so bizarre how the other kids right next to the person acted like nothing was happening. It was very strange and I think we now know part of the answer was the severe penaties that the state has.

It seems being suspended for a few days would be appropriate punishment for the person and not a crime IMO but then again we don't know if this person had done other things before that day. Maybe they were a problem student and had been given chances before that day.
Not sure.
 
For those who can't comprehend the mindset of today's youth,
why the days of compulsory unquestioning respect for elders and authority appear lost,
and especially those who think teens today have gone to hell in a handbasket,
perhaps you need to change seats and take a look at the landscape from where they're sitting...

Teacher charged in sexual in sexual assault...
http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/warren-county/index.ssf/2015/08/teacher_charged_in_sexual_assa.html

Maine teacher, softball coach charged with gross sexual assault...
http://www.pressherald.com/2014/04/07/maine-man-charged-with-gross-sexual-assault-of-a-student/

CALUMET PARK POLICE OFFICER CHARGED WITH SEXUAL ABUSE OF MINOR...
http://abc7chicago.com/news/calumet-park-police-officer-charged-with-sexual-abuse-of-minor/1027164/

Concord teacher arrested for sexual assualt and child *advertiser censored*...
http://patch.com/new-hampshire/concord-nh/concord-teacher-arrested-sexual-assault-child-*advertiser censored*

Local high school teacher charged with sexual assault of child...
http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/29576238/local-high-school-teacher-charged-with-sexual-assault-of-child

Birmingham police officer arrested for child sexual abuse...
http://www.wbrc.com/story/26749368/birmingham-police-officer-arrested-for-child-sexual-abuse

Monson teacher charged with sexually assaulting students ...
http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2015/03/monson_teacher_charged_with_sexually_assaulting_stafford_elementary_school_students.html

New Jersey teacher arrested for allegedly sexually assaulting female student...
http://pix11.com/2015/06/20/new-jersey-teacher-arrested-for-sexually-assaulting-female-student/

Memphis police officer charged with sexual battery...
http://wreg.com/2015/09/11/memphis-police-officer-charged-with-2014-sexual-battery/

School official arrested for sexual contact with student...
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/school-official-arrested-sexual-contact-student-article-1.2261949

Olentangy Teacher Sexually Abused Girls ...
http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2015/03/17/olentangy-bad-teacher-arrested.html

Police Officer Charged With 21 Counts of Sexual Assault On a Child...
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/elburn-police-officer-charged-21-counts-sexual-assault-child-payroll/

D.C. teacher charged with child sexual abuse...
http://wtop.com/dc/2015/06/d-c-teacher-arrested-in-connection-with-child-sex-abuse-case/

Madison Southern biology teacher charged with sexual abuse of 16-year-old student...
http://www.kentucky.com/2015/08/25/4004965/madison-southern-anatomy-teacher.html

Elburn cop charged in sexual assault of girl over 10-year period...
http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/batavia-geneva-st-charles/news/ct-cop-charged-with-child-sex-assault-met-20150428-story.html

Reidland Middle School teacher charged in sexual abuse case with teenager...
http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/story/28047097/former-reidland-middle-school-teacher-charged-in-sexual-abuse-case-with-teenager

Suburban middle school teacher charged with sexual assault of a minor...
http://wgntv.com/2015/10/16/suburban-middle-school-teacher-charged-with-sexual-assault-of-a-minor/

DC police officer held on child sex abuse charges...
http://www.wusa9.com/story/news/local/dc/2015/03/16/dc-police-officer-sex-abuse-arrest/24884313/

Harlem High School Teacher Arrested for Sexual Abuse...
http://www.wifr.com/home/headlines/Harlem-High-School-Teacher-Arrested-for-Sexual-Abuse-316307901.html

Northern IN teacher, minister arrested for child sex abuse in Metro...
http://www.wave3.com/story/25753222/northern-in-teacher-minister-arrested-for-child-sex-abuse-in-metro

Cop accused of sexually assaulting 2-year-old...
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/03/19/police-child-sex-assault/25041091/

Indianapolis coach of Olympic gymnasts charged with child molesting, sexual misconduct...
http://www.indystar.com/story/news/crime/2015/08/25/indianapolis-coach-olympic-gymnasts-charged-child-molesting-sexual-misconduct/32257033/

Sun Valley teacher charged with sexual abuse...
http://www.abcfoxmontana.com/story/30177490/sun-valley-teacher-charged-with-sexual-abuse

Third NYPD officer of 2015 arrested for raping a teenage girl...
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/06/1409276/-3rd-NYPD-officer-of-2015-arrested-for-raping-a-teenage-girl

Florida teacher Jennifer Fichter pleads guilty To 37 counts in student sex case...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/06/jennifer-fichter-teacher-sex_n_7012166.html

Franklin County Teacher Arrested on Sexual Molestation Charge...
http://www.wctv.tv/news/floridanews/headlines/Franklin-County-Teacher-Arrested-on-Sexual-Molestation-Charges-277245481.html

Ohatchee teacher charged with sex abuse, sexual contact with student...
http://www.annistonstar.com/news/ohatchee-teacher-charged-with-sex-abuse-sexual-contact-with-student/article_9eb09034-fff1-11e4-b93e-f7cbf2bde267.html

Athens-Clarke officer charged with sexual assault of juvenile...
http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2015-05-13/story/athens-clarke-officer-charged-sexual-assualt-juvenile

Local teacher arrested on multiple felony child sexual assault charges...
http://the-grip.net/2015/08/19/local-teacher-arrested-on-multiple-felony-child-sexual-assault-charges/

Georgia violin teacher, 85, charged with child molestation...
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/georgia-violin-teacher-85-charged-child-molestation-article-1.2322769

Bethel police officer indicted on rape, sexual battery charges...
http://www.wlwt.com/news/village-of-bethel-police-officer-indicted-on-rape-sexual-battery-charges/32669978

Teacher Arrested on Sexual Assault Charges...
http://www.wltx.com/story/news/crime/2015/08/07/teacher-arrested-on-sexual-assault-charges/31270627/

Teacher charged with sexual battery of a student...
http://www.wyff4.com/news/SCSO-Teacher-charged-with-sexual-battery-of-a-student/30282408

Oklahoma City police officer arrested a second time in molestation case...
http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-police-officer-arrested-a-second-time-in-molestation-case/article/3558716

North Carolina cheerleading coach arrested for alleged sexual assault of minors...
http://wtkr.com/2015/09/25/north-carolina-cheerleading-coach-arrested-for-alleged-sexual-assault-against-minors/

Dubuque police officer charged with sexual abuse...
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/mar/19/ex-dubuque-police-officer-charged-with-sexual-abus/

N.C. teacher pleads guilty to sex with 13 year old...
http://www.11alive.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/07/08/teacher-guilty-sex-13-year-old-student/29858839/

Tacoma police officer charged with child molestation...
http://blog.thenewstribune.com/crime/2010/05/26/tacoma-police-officer-charged-with-child-molestation/

Teacher accused of sexual molestation...
http://www.yumasun.com/teacher-accused-of-sexual-molestation/article_5be42e80-7399-5785-9bf7-c56d3c0519e8.html

Spring ISD police officer arrested on sexual charges...
http://www.chron.com/neighborhood/spring/crime-courts/article/Spring-ISD-police-officer-arrested-on-sexual-6570897.php

Texas high school band teacher charged with 11 counts of sexual assault of a child...
http://www.lmtonline.com/front-news/article_d678a868-4055-11e5-9622-27bb0470093d.html

Champaign police officer arrested on sexual assault charges...
http://www.dailyillini.com/article/2015/06/champaign-police-officer-arrested

Oklahoma English Teacher Charged With Rape...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/13/kalyn-thompson-teacher-sex_n_5315239.html

Pleasanton teacher arrested, accused of sexually abusing a former student...
http://kron4.com/2015/06/01/pleasanton-teacher-arrested-accused-of-sexually-abusing-a-former-student/

Former Boise cop who sexually assaulted infants sentenced...
http://www.kboi2.com/news/local/102018443.html

EXETER TEACHER ARRESTED, FACES CHILD MOLESTATION CHARGES...
http://abc30.com/news/exeter-teacher-faces-child-molestation-charges/557210/

This doesn't even include the daily media reports of misconduct by our elected officials, clergy members, celebrities, and professional athletes that this generation has come up with. Gone are the days when one's age and title alone automatically entitle them to trust and respect by anyone, even our youth.

JMO ~
 
Wow, that list gives some perspective nomoresorrow. Makes the time and effort on a disruptive kid seem negligible imo.
 
For those who can't comprehend the mindset of today's youth,
why the days of compulsory unquestioning respect for elders and authority appear lost,
and especially those who think teens today have gone to hell in a handbasket,
perhaps you need to change seats and take a look at the landscape from where they're sitting...


This doesn't even include the daily media reports of misconduct by our elected officials, clergy members, celebrities, and professional athletes that this generation has come up with. Gone are the days when one's age and title alone automatically entitle them to trust and respect by anyone, even our youth.

JMO ~

SBM

This case isn't about sexual assault or abuse so I'm not sure how all those many links fit in. JMO
 
About the sexual abuse links - I think sexual/physical abuse of children has gone WAY WAY down in the last couple generations. If you read nonfiction memoirs, you see that physical abuse was rampant - from pulling kids around by the ear, to whipping and beating them bruised and bloody for accidental behaviors or inability to succeed academically. It was completely accepted. Spare the rod, and all.

When I was in middle school, there were certain male teachers you knew to avoid. Specifically, one shop teacher who would try to grab you, and one art teacher who would stand very close and look down your blouse. We all knew this. It was understood, you avoid those guys. The other shop teacher was a great guy, taught across the hall, and would often appear in the doorway if he saw a girl entering the classroom with no other students present. Even if other students were present, he'd ask girls to sit on his lap or on his desk. This was in the early 1970's. I sat in a high school speech class, during speech time, and the teacher sat behind me. In front of me was this fabulously gorgeous girl. The teacher passed notes through me to her. One note, he had written some inocuous thing but underlined the letters b i t c h and she responded with a note that underlined the letters b a s t a r d. All very hilarious to both of them. That would be an instant fireable offense today.

We're now talking openly about sexual and physical abuse - back a couple generations ago, no one talked about it or if they did, it was in an accepting way.
 
Here's another way of looking at the links above.

I could lookup a bunch of links where students assaulted teachers. It would be fair to say that since the student in this case did not assault a teacher, or anyone else, those links don't fit this case.

JMO
 
About the sexual abuse links - I think sexual/physical abuse of children has gone WAY WAY down in the last couple generations. If you read nonfiction memoirs, you see that physical abuse was rampant - from pulling kids around by the ear, to whipping and beating them bruised and bloody for accidental behaviors or inability to succeed academically. It was completely accepted. Spare the rod, and all.

When I was in middle school, there were certain male teachers you knew to avoid. Specifically, one shop teacher who would try to grab you, and one art teacher who would stand very close and look down your blouse. We all knew this. It was understood, you avoid those guys. The other shop teacher was a great guy, taught across the hall, and would often appear in the doorway if he saw a girl entering the classroom with no other students present. Even if other students were present, he'd ask girls to sit on his lap or on his desk. This was in the early 1970's. I sat in a high school speech class, during speech time, and the teacher sat behind me. In front of me was this fabulously gorgeous girl. The teacher passed notes through me to her. One note, he had written some inocuous thing but underlined the letters b i t c h and she responded with a note that underlined the letters b a s t a r d. All very hilarious to both of them. That would be an instant fireable offense today.

We're now talking openly about sexual and physical abuse - back a couple generations ago, no one talked about it or if they did, it was in an accepting way.
 
SBM

This case isn't about sexual assault or abuse so I'm not sure how all those many links fit in. JMO

Sorry you missed the point of why I posted the links. There have been numerous posts questioning why teens today aren't like they were in days past; days when respect was given - without question - to those in authority or an elder. If a small town teacher or police officer was charged with child molestation, it typically remained local news - it didn't receive the media coverage that it does today because it didn't exist. With media coverage and social networking as it is today, these stories - no matter where they occur - are instantly available and these few [yes, few] links that I posted are the headlines and messages that this generation sees everyday. I don't think we can compare them to past generations in this respect; it is like comparing apples to oranges, IMO.
 
And about 20 years ago, I caught an Oprah Winfrey show where Maya Angelou was present. They were discussing the horror of child sexual abuse, and this one elderly audience member stood up and said she was from a generation where everyone understood it was indecent to discuss this vulgar topic.

Wow. Coulda heard a pin drop. That was true. It happened a lot, and it was indecent to bring it up in conversation.
 
I really like the idea of an alternative school - removes the kid, is a real consequence, kids hate social isolation, doesn't require parental involvement, and leaves cops out of the handling of routine problems.

As for cuffing kids for violence, hauling them into court, and making them take anger management classes?? Bravo, and where the heck is that? What a favor to those kids, whether they see it that way at the time or not.


The student and parents are given a deadline to do the classes at one of the free centers here in the metroplex. They are given sixty days that it's to be done, and the form signed by the center before your next visit with the judge.

When we were in court there was a young man slumped over in his seat,
he'd been there several times before, and when his name was called his grandma stood up and the judge jumped the boy. Told him to stand up and asked him if he knew that skipping school was going to have his grandmother arrested and placed in jail because she was his guardian, because it was up to her to see that he's made it to school. It seemed like it made him stop and think.
 
Sorry you missed the point of why I posted the links. There have been numerous posts questioning why teens today aren't like they were in days past; days when respect was given - without question - to those in authority or an elder. If a small town teacher or police officer was charged with child molestation, it typically remained local news - it didn't receive the media coverage that it does today because it didn't exist. With media coverage and social networking as it is today, these stories - no matter where they occur - are instantly available and these few [yes, few] links that I posted are the headlines and messages that this generation sees everyday. I don't think we can compare them to past generations in this respect; it is like comparing apples to oranges, IMO.



I really don't think media coverage of abuses of authority is responsible for the sea change we're talking about here. Actually, I think that coverage came afterwards, not just because of the rise of social media, but because it reflects and amplifies an existing attitude that authority can't be trusted.

And the origins of that attitude go right smack dab back to the 1960s, for better and for worse, and to many in the huge baby boomer generation (mine) who largely bought into the philosophy that government can't be trusted, the media can't be trusted....heck, really no one in authority can be trusted, and besides, politics is about the personal. Me trumps we. Individual rights trump the community's.

There's no going back, and the before was not idyllic, though it sure can seem that way sometimes-- but this level of belligerent defiance in the name of no cause but pride or sense of entitlement? This is not progress.
 
Sorry you missed the point of why I posted the links. There have been numerous posts questioning why teens today aren't like they were in days past; days when respect was given - without question - to those in authority or an elder. If a small town teacher or police officer was charged with child molestation, it typically remained local news - it didn't receive the media coverage that it does today because it didn't exist. With media coverage and social networking as it is today, these stories - no matter where they occur - are instantly available and these few [yes, few] links that I posted are the headlines and messages that this generation sees everyday. I don't think we can compare them to past generations in this respect; it is like comparing apples to oranges, IMO.

I guess I don't see the point you're trying to make.

The fact that some authority figures sexually assault minors doesn't mean that students should ignore every command (like giving up a cell phone) given to them by teachers or police officers.

JMO
 
Here's another way of looking at the links above.

I could lookup a bunch of links where students assaulted teachers. It would be fair to say that since the student in this case did not assault a teacher, or anyone else, those links don't fit this case.

JMO

I would bet those stats have gone way up over the years. jmo
 
I would bet those stats have gone way up over the years. jmo

No doubt about it. And videos showing it are around too.

I don't think it would be right to link students assaulting teachers videos on this thread because that didn't happen in this case.

JMO
 
Theres the key!!!

How can we make kids in high school and grade school appreciate and realize that they should want to be there for their own benefit in the long run?

It can be done better than we are doing. We don't explain the benefits to them enough IMO. We just tell them simple things like its for your own good. Blah Blah Blah but they don't really understand. If we can get to them this point then we can change a lot of attitudes in them.

It becomes quite obvious to the student as soon as college admission is attempted.
Bad grades? - You cant go to the college school you wanted to go to
Really bad grades? - You cant go to college at all.
Really good grades ? - Colleges will be fighting themselves for you

And this is all without parents even being part of the discussion. So when kids are really young I think we need to do better at explaining the long term repercussions to where they want to be there.

Its too simplistic with the "you cant do this or you cant do that". I don't think kids really understand why they are being told these rules.

This is one area where we could improve and have the kids helping themselves and behaving better because they want to. Not because they are being forced to.
I know its much simpler said than done and I do think certain parents or lack thereof is partly to blame in a lot of cases.

BBM. Good post, Hatfield-- and I really understand your frustration.

For myself, I don't really think it's possible for schools to "fill in" that gap for some of our most socially vulnerable kids. WE can't make "them" want it.There is so much to do in the school day just to teach the K-5 kids to read and do basic math-- there isn't much time left for positive affirmations except as a "drive by" technique, or stickers on their papers-- and it seems like it's too late by middle school or high school. The teachers do the best they can, but they have a pretty big task on their plate, and a big class.

Honestly, for most of these kids, my hope and dream is just THAT they can somehow graduate from high school, so that they have the best chance of becoming at least sporadically employed, a taxpayer, and off the welfare rolls. I think that is a big enough mountain to climb for many of them-- just get them to graduate high school.

I spend a fair amount of time reading, interpreting, and analyzing school test scores, and looking at graduation rates, etc, for some of the committees I'm on, and participating in "what" should be done differently to improve these numbers and trends in our area. I absolutely hate that I've gotten to the point that I don't see college or post secondary preparation as a realistic, viable option for a fairly large swath of "at risk" youth-- despite increasing mandates from the state to prepare all kids for college and post secondary. It's just not even in their dreams-- they can't even comprehend an adult in their environment with a steady job, or one who doesn't have a criminal record. Kids who most of the adults they know regularly take drugs. We're talking kids in foster care, kids punted back and forth in divorce situations, kids with a parent who is mentally ill and untreated, kids who are homeless, unwanted by any adults in their environment, kids who sleep where ever they can find a sofa and someone willing to feed them, etc. Little kids who have never had a balanced meal or a bedtime in their entire lives, and never once had an adult read to them. Kids who don't know any adults in their family environment who speak English fluently, or are even literate in their native language. Unwanted, unloved, unparented, angry, defiant, despondent kids who are just trying to get thru one day at a time, and looking for the easiest way to get something material.

Mostly, there are a huge number of kids whose parents are just absent in their lives-- their relationship with a parent AT BEST is like their relationship with a bus driver or sales clerk-- it's not a nurturing, parent/ child bond. And I just don't think the school system can "fix" any of that in 6 hours a day. They have to go back to their crappy environments, with their absent parent/s, and the social messages they absorb there are SCREAMED at them non-stop. A lot of these kids have problems (attitude, self worth, lack of ambition, resentment, angry, entitlement, etc) that are just far worse than any school or any caring teacher can ever hope to "fix".

So, the best we can hope to do, IMO, for the kids with the worst behavior issues and social situations, is just to set limits and expectations, rules, for being in the school environment, and do our best to enforce them without encouraging violence among the students, or staff. Contain them for 6 hours a day. Offer the opportunity for an education, knowing most may not care. Encourage them as we can, and maybe hope to reach one or two. But realize none of it probably matters in the big scheme of things-- we aren't making them better people or better citizens. We can't change their environment outside of the 6 hours of school. We're just marking time-- babysitting many of these kids. You can't instill a work ethic, or delayed gratification, or appreciation, in kids with this kind of background. IMO.

It's depressing, and admittedly I've done a 180 from being an ivory tower optimist, to mostly pessimistic, over the last 20 years. I hate that we can't rescue these kids out of their crappy environments with their absent parents, when they are still young enough to make a difference.

(Sorry for the rant. )
 
I really don't think media coverage of abuses of authority is responsible for the sea change we're talking about here. Actually, I think that coverage came afterwards, not just because of the rise of social media, but because it reflects and amplifies an existing attitude that authority can't be trusted.

And the origins of that attitude go right smack dab back to the 1960s, for better and for worse, and to many in the huge baby boomer generation (mine) who largely bought into the philosophy that government can't be trusted, the media can't be trusted....heck, really no one in authority can be trusted, and besides, politics is about the personal. Me trumps we. Individual rights trump the community's.

There's no going back, and the before was not idyllic, though it sure can seem that way sometimes-- but this level of belligerent defiance in the name of no cause but pride or sense of entitlement? This is not progress.



We are reaping what we sowed.
 
BBM. Good post, Hatfield-- and I really understand your frustration.

For myself, I don't really think it's possible for schools to "fill in" that gap for some of our most socially vulnerable kids. WE can't make "them" want it.There is so much to do in the school day just to teach the K-5 kids to read and do basic math-- there isn't much time left for positive affirmations except as a "drive by" technique, or stickers on their papers-- and it seems like it's too late by middle school or high school. The teachers do the best they can, but they have a pretty big task on their plate, and a big class.

Honestly, for most of these kids, my hope and dream is just THAT they can somehow graduate from high school, so that they have the best chance of becoming at least sporadically employed, a taxpayer, and off the welfare rolls. I think that is a big enough mountain to climb for many of them-- just get them to graduate high school.

I spend a fair amount of time reading, interpreting, and analyzing school test scores, and looking at graduation rates, etc, for some of the committees I'm on, and participating in "what" should be done differently to improve these numbers and trends in our area. I absolutely hate that I've gotten to the point that I don't see college or post secondary preparation as a realistic, viable option for a fairly large swath of "at risk" youth-- despite increasing mandates from the state to prepare all kids for college and post secondary. It's just not even in their dreams-- they can't even comprehend an adult in their environment with a steady job, or one who doesn't have a criminal record. Kids who most of the adults they know regularly take drugs. We're talking kids in foster care, kids punted back and forth in divorce situations, kids with a parent who is mentally ill and untreated, kids who are homeless, unwanted by any adults in their environment, kids who sleep where ever they can find a sofa and someone willing to feed them, etc. Little kids who have never had a balanced meal or a bedtime in their entire lives, and never once had an adult read to them. Kids who don't know any adults in their family environment who speak English fluently, or are even literate in their native language. Unwanted, unloved, unparented, angry, defiant, despondent kids who are just trying to get thru one day at a time, and looking for the easiest way to get something material.

Mostly, there are a huge number of kids whose parents are just absent in their lives-- their relationship with a parent AT BEST is like their relationship with a bus driver or sales clerk-- it's not a nurturing, parent/ child bond. And I just don't think the school system can "fix" any of that in 6 hours a day. They have to go back to their crappy environments, with their absent parent/s, and the social messages they absorb there are SCREAMED at them non-stop. A lot of these kids have problems (attitude, self worth, lack of ambition, resentment, angry, entitlement, etc) that are just far worse than any school or any caring teacher can ever hope to "fix".

So, the best we can hope to do, IMO, for the kids with the worst behavior issues and social situations, is just to set limits and expectations, rules, for being in the school environment, and do our best to enforce them without encouraging violence among the students, or staff. Contain them for 6 hours a day. Offer the opportunity for an education, knowing most may not care. Encourage them as we can, and maybe hope to reach one or two. But realize none of it probably matters in the big scheme of things-- we aren't making them better people or better citizens. We can't change their environment outside of the 6 hours of school. We're just marking time-- babysitting many of these kids. You can't instill a work ethic, or delayed gratification, or appreciation, in kids with this kind of background. IMO.

It's depressing, and admittedly I've done a 180 from being an ivory tower optimist, to mostly pessimistic, over the last 20 years. I hate that we can't rescue these kids out of their crappy environments with their absent parents, when they are still young enough to make a difference.

(Sorry for the rant. )

Thanks for the realistic feedback. It is very depressing but its the reality for lots of kids. You are right and that is a huge challenge.

I can relate to what you describe because I knew some friends in high school that had home environments like you describe. It actually was shocking the kids I knew did as well as they did. When I found out what their home environment was like I was so surprised they even managed as well as they had. Some of my friends would go home to parents that fought all the time and didn't care 1 bit how my friends school day went. I felt so lucky to have parents that cared about how I was doing in school. Some of my friends would go home to environments where not only did they not care they would say and do things to make their self esteem be terrible.

You are so right that some cases are extreme and all we can sometimes do is try to succeed with them.

There was a good movie that I cant remember the name of that really hit home to the types of things we are describing. The kid was made fun of for not having good clothes and seemed dirty in class. We learn in the movie that he is living with a dead beat Dad who drinks all the time and no mother.

For some kids, there is not a lot of hope for a kid to want to have any ambitions while in school. We have to be thankful for the kids that do have loving homes and at least help the ones who we can.
There are a select few kids in bad situations that are able to resent their home situation so much that they turn it into a fight to be good although those are probably rare. Some of the inner city success stories like Stuvysent in NYC set good examples.
Some of the after school programs or even during school programs for endangered youth are also great ways to address things like that.

I suppose we need to just keep trying to do better but we also need to recognize we have done well for the masses of kids that do succeed and be thankful our schools are doing as good as they can for the most part.
 
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