For those that can't watch Nancy Grace, here's the transcript for 9/21/07:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0709/21/ng.01.html
NANCY GRACE (Part 1)
Nursing Student Claims Carjacker Suffocated 7-Year-Old Son
Aired September 21, 2007 - 20:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, a parent`s worst nightmare. South Carolina, a young mom tells police she is carjacked at knifepoint. She survives, but her 7-year-old baby boy is smothered to death with a pillow already in Mom`s car. No sex assault, no theft. Even with a police sketch, still no arrests tonight as the investigation stretches on.
And we learn, just months before the alleged carjacking, the little boy nearly dies in a house fire, a fire started in his room while mom sleeps in the next room.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators were still looking for clues long before sunrise. Seven-year-old Devon Epps was dead. The mother said a carjacker killed him. The woman says a man threatened her before getting into the front passenger seat, forcing Devon into the back. Devon`s mother told deputies the man forced her to drive around, but at one point, she got out and the man locked the car and killed her son. The child`s mother says she got back into the car and scuffled with the man, who ran off into the woods. She says he was in his 30s or 40s, with reddish hair, about six feet tall and weighed more than 200 pounds. He was wearing a white T-shirt and Jeans at the time. Investigators say they don`t know what would lead a man to force his way into a car and kill a child, but the search goes on for a suspect and answers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight: A gorgeous young sales rep vanishes in thin air, upscale neighborhood. City? Chicago. Nailah Franklin last sent text messages early that evening en route to dinner, Franklin never heard from again. Police search Franklin`s exclusive neighborhood condo to discover two missing laptop computers. Also gone, credit cards and a 2005 gray Chevy Impala.
Now, how does that fit into the mystery? Did the 28-year-old report telephone threats in the weeks just before she went missing? Tonight: Police comb grainy surveillance video that is emerging in the mystery surrounding 28-year-old Nailah Franklin.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Family, friends and Chicago police are wondering what happened to 28-year-old Nailah Franklin, the successful and beautiful pharmaceutical sales rep missing for days now. Her last form of communication, text messages on Tuesday night indicating she had dinner plans. Then Franklin vanishes.
The search reveals personal items missing from the popular businesswoman`s upscale Chicago condo, including two computers, credit cards and her 2005 Chevy Impala. But tonight, some chilling details emerge. Police reveal Franklin had been getting threatening telephone calls from a man her family and friends believe she once dated.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do belief she`s in distress of some sort because she`s not the kind of person who would just leave without a trace.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. First, South Carolina and the mystery surrounding the investigation of the asphyxiation of a 7-year-old boy. Only eyewitness? Mom.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just who is responsible for the death of 7-year- old Devon Epps remains a mystery, the South Carolina elementary student and his mom, Amanda Smith, in her Honda Civic when she claims they were carjacked by a man with a knife. Smith says the surprise passenger forces them to drive into the woods, and it`s there Mom claims the suspect forces her out of the car, locks the door and smothers her son with a pillow.
After smashing through the car window, Smith gets into a struggle with the armed suspect, but he flees into the woods. Police circulate this sketch, but more than one month later, still no arrests. And a stunning report emerges. Little Devon Epps almost died in a house fire just months before the deadly mystery in the woods of Greenville, South Carolina.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Only eyewitness, Mom. No sex assault, no theft. The injuries to the mom have largely been undisclosed, but now we learn there was one non-life-threatening injury to her arm.
I want to go straight out to the reporter there on scene first of all, to Taylor Stone, news director with WLMA radio. Taylor, what happened? And how is the mom?
TAYLOR STONE, 1350 WLMA: Actually, the mom is fine. She was released from the hospital. And hi, Nancy. The homicide investigation is ongoing. The latest count is 60 reported leads on this case right now.
GRACE: Now, I don`t quite understand the mom`s injury.
STONE: Well, apparently, during the scuffle, she had an injury with the -- from the gentleman that she was scuffling with.
GRACE: Out to Jane Velez-Mitchell, investigative reporter and author. You know, it`s my understanding the mom says she was -- first of all, I don`t know why she was out at 10:45 at night, not that that`s a crime, but there`s a 7-year-old child in the car. Don`t they have to go to sleep? Different can of worms.
But she`s at a stop sign on a frontage road near the interstate, and out of nowhere comes a guy whose sketch looks amazingly like her husband, but he happened to be in jail at the time. It couldn`t have been him. He gets into the car, then somehow forces them into a wooded area for no other reason than to smother the baby with a pillow already in Mom`s car? Have I missed something?
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: No, you have it exactly right, Nancy. It doesn`t make a lot of sense on the face of it. A carjacker who, wielding a knife, jumps into the passenger seat, forces the 7-year-old boy to the back seat, says, Go to a wooded area, then forces the mom out, locks the door, proceeded to jump into the back seat and smother the boy with a pillow that just happens to be on hand, and then gets into a scuffle with the mom, who is allegedly throwing rocks at the car to break back in. She gets in, he splits, but he leaves the car. The carjacker leaves the car and the dead boy. And apparently, he doesn`t take anything. And when police arrive, the boy is not inside the car anymore. That lifeless body is outside the car.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Jesse in Texas. Hi, Jesse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: How are you, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m doing great. How about you?
GRACE: I`m good. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My question is, have they given the mother a polygraph test?
GRACE: Excellent question. Back to Taylor Stone. She`s news director at WLMA radio. Taylor, has the mom taken a poly?
STONE: That -- I have yet to be determined on that. I`m trying to find that out. It looks as if they are -- she`s not necessarily a suspect at this point, but they`re not ruling her out, that`s for sure.
GRACE: Well, actually, you`re right. She is not a suspect. They`re not ruling anybody in or out. And so far, no follow-up -- not any follow- up, but no real answers on the leads that have come in. The sketch that the mom gave, the composite sketch, looked like kind of her husband and homeless person in the area. Taylor, do we know, have police talked to this homeless person?
STONE: The homeless person has not been able to be located.
GRACE: I want to go back to the dad. They`re actually not husband and wife. But are we correct, Taylor Stone, that the biological dad was in jail for non-payment of child support at the time? It couldn`t have been him, right?
STONE: That is very true. He was in jail.
GRACE: OK. Back to Jane Velez-Mitchell. Jane Velez, tell me about this fire that happened just, what, two or three months before the carjack.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, this is another very bizarre and suspicious circumstance, frankly, Nancy. About three months before, in early May, there was a fire in Devon`s room, the little boy`s room. He was rushed to the hospital suffering from smoke inhalation.
Now, here`s the amazing thing. This courageous little boy told the story of how he woke up and saw that his room was on fire, and touched the handle of the door and it was very hot. Nevertheless, he proceeded to open the door and race, and where did he race? To save his mama. So he may very well have saved his mother`s life, and now, of course, this little child is dead.
GRACE: Jane, how did the fire start in his room with him asleep?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it has been, apparently, ruled accidental, although I wouldn`t be surprised if police look into it again and fire officials look into it again. The mother said she left two lights on, one a lamp and one a night-light, before going to sleep. And certainly, one would wonder why you would leave two lights on and then leave a child at the age of 7 alone in a room and go to sleep. But that`s our understanding, at this point.
GRACE: To Tom Shamshak, private investigator, joining us out of Boston jurisdiction. Tom, I prosecuted a lot of arson cases, and do you know how rare it is for a night-light, which is intended to be on all night, or a lamp, to spontaneously burst into flames?
TOM SHAMSHAK, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: It is rare, but what -- could they determine the wattage of that particular bulb? Was this something that was intended to start a fire? Were there articles of clothing placed...
GRACE: Wait. Wait. Did I hear you say, Was the light bulb intended to start a fire?
SHAMSHAK: Yes.
GRACE: I don`t even know what you`re talking about. Who am I going to sue, GE for the light bulb...
SHAMSHAK: No, no, no, no, no!
GRACE: ... that was created to start a fire?
SHAMSHAK: No, no. You`re missing the point. Did she get a bulb that was inappropriate and that would intend to start a fire, that the heat generated from it, was it deliberately put in there?
GRACE: Tom, you`re kidding, right? How many times, including me, has everybody in this studio and in this country put the wrong wattage in a lamp? It will blow out before it starts a fire.
SHAMSHAK: Well, you don`t know what time she put it in there.
GRACE: OK. Fine. What about it, Pat Brown?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, I`m -- I think it`s the most ridiculous story I`ve ever heard, this carjacking story, and I`m beginning to believe that this woman wanted that son out of her life. She exhibits a lot of the Munchausen syndrome by proxy, where you either make a kid sick to get attention or kill them to get attention. And a lot of those women have nursing backgrounds, and this woman was a nursing student.
I think, yes, it looks like she might have set that fire. Maybe she put the lamp near, like, a curtain so it would accidentally go on fire. The story of...
GRACE: OK, Pat, Pat...
BROWN: Yes?
GRACE: In your life, have been ever had a lamp catch on fire? They didn`t say anything about curtains. They didn`t say anything about papers, newspapers, magazines wadded up. No. They said a night-light and a lamp. Those were the possible sources of a fire that started in the little boy`s room, with his door shut, with Mom in the next room. Again, she is not a suspect. I`m just telling you what the facts are.
BROWN: Well, that may be what they...
GRACE: Do you know anybody whose house burned down because of a night-light?
BROWN: Not from a night-light, but the lamp does concern me and maybe what was around it to make the fire happen.
GRACE: Do you know somebody that...
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Yes, I worked on a case, Nancy, that was very similar to that and...
GRACE: And what happened?
BROWN: They never figured out what happened. That was the problem. It started a massive fire and they couldn`t figure it out, so they just...
GRACE: And it was just a lamp? It was just a lamp? There were no newspapers or nothing? The lamp just went up?
BROWN: Well, it depends how bad the fire is, Nancy, how much it had spread and what had disappeared, and therefore maybe the evidence disappeared in the fire. But I`m telling you, this story that the woman`s come up with the carjacking is absolutely ludicrous. It doesn`t make a darn bit of sense. Nobody carjacks somebody and tries to kill the kid, rather than the woman. The woman is the big threat. That`s the one you go after first, not the child. To allow the woman out of the car to call the police and to throw rocks at you while you`re killing off the kid is absolutely the stupidest story I`ve ever heard, so...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... prosecutor in the Atlanta jurisdiction. Holly, again, the mom -- let me repeat -- has not been named a suspect. Here`s the thing, though. Holly, when you prosecute a case, you look for motive. Not that the state ever has the burden of showing motive, but there`s no sex assault, there`s no theft, and I`ve never seen -- we`re going to go to the shrink in just a moment -- a psychological profile where a carjacker jumps in to smother the little boy, with the murder weapon a pillow already in the car, and then leaves, leaves Mom there, a witness, leaves the car, leaves the pocketbook, leaves everything!
HOLLY HUGHES, PROSECUTOR: Right. Nancy, this story stinks worse than 10-day-old flounder, OK? There`s a million things wrong with it. Pat hit on it mostly. She said, first of all, you know, you`re going to disable the adult first before you go after the child because the adult`s the bigger threat. Secondly, what mother is going to get out of the car and leave her 7-year-old in there to be locked in there with the killer in the first place?
Additionally, if he`s got a knife, Nancy, he brought the knife with him. Why doesn`t he use the knife on the 7-year-old? He smothers it with a pillow that just happens to be in the car? This story did not hold water. I know she hasn`t been named a suspect yet, but I wouldn`t be at all surprised if, down the line, they don`t name her as a person of interest, Nancy.
GRACE: Joining us right now is the aunt of Devon Epps, the little boy who perished in the car that day. To Diane Jacques. Ms. Jacques, thank you for being with us.