GUILTY SC - Grace Carlson-SantaCruz, 5 mos, Myrtle Beach, 3 Nov 2015

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passionflower said:
The way she has no remorse, no tears, nothing. Flings her arms like those people that take that new zombie drug.
No words to discribe her without T/O to me...............
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Why wasn't she in handcuffs?

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Speculation and a question. If she was in a drug induced stupor and went into the water to "find God" or something along those lines, what kind of charges can they impose on her? Obviously neglect and endangerment, but are there more? Involuntary manslaughter? Does anybody know?
 
ClaireNC said:
Speculation and a question. If she was in a drug induced stupor and went into the water to "find God" or something along those lines, what kind of charges can they impose on her? Obviously neglect and endangerment, but are there more? Involuntary manslaughter? Does anybody know?
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My guess would be that the current charges of unlawful conduct would be easily proved, and if I were the judge, I would sentence her to the maximum of 10 years. If she tested positive for drugs, she would probably be in violation of her current probation, so I would slap her with that jail time too. If there were to be no water in Baby Grace's lungs, then I would hope she hypothetically "found God".
 
http://www.wmbfnews.com/story/30452...-before-toney-went-into-creek-with-baby-grace

Brunner said she still doesn't understand what made Toney walk into the creek. She said, “People don’t put their feet in there to cool off - it’s just that gross. Why she walked in there… I don’t know.” Brunner shared what the moments were like the night when the three of them were together for the last time. She said, “Around midnight, 1 o' clock in the morning Monday night, we were out here in the living room talking and baby was awake and singing and giggling and smiling, and we were playing with her, so I felt it’s alright to go to bed. I don’t know what happened after that that she did whatever it is she did."
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stillwatersc said:
http://www.wmbfnews.com/story/30452...-before-toney-went-into-creek-with-baby-grace
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She said, “Around midnight, 1 o' clock in the morning Monday night, we were out here in the living room talking and baby was awake and singing and giggling and smiling, and we were playing with her, so I felt it’s alright to go to bed.
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BBM. Obviously there was something that made her question whether it was alright to go to bed or she wouldn't have had to made the decision that it was alright to go to bed, right?

You don't usually mention things that didn't happen unless there's a reason to. Eg. You don't say, "I was crossing the street, and I didn't get hit by a car, so I kept crossing the street."
 
stillwatersc said:
http://www.wmbfnews.com/story/30452...-before-toney-went-into-creek-with-baby-grace
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She said, “Around midnight, 1 o' clock in the morning Monday night, we were out here in the living room talking and baby was awake and singing and giggling and smiling, and we were playing with her, so I felt it’s alright to go to bed. I don’t know what happened after that that she did whatever it is she did."

Do we know if this is the last sighting of Baby Grace alive? Has it been mentioned in MSM that anyone saw them the following morning? I thought there was, but it may have been rumor.
 
Has it been confirmed by the woman who called 911 that the mother was totally wet when she came to the door? we're having a little warm spell here, but not warm enough to go into natural water, certainly not dirty flood water. I'm with a lot of people here, the room mates statement about feeling it was 'alright to go to bed' and what ever reason sent her into the water, was the baby still alive? Had she made statements to the room mate about not wanting the baby? where were the other kids?
This stinks! and mama needs to stay in jail.
 
rob said:
Has it been confirmed by the woman who called 911 that the mother was totally wet when she came to the door? we're having a little warm spell here, but not warm enough to go into natural water, certainly not dirty flood water. I'm with a lot of people here, the room mates statement about feeling it was 'alright to go to bed' and what ever reason sent her into the water, was the baby still alive? Had she made statements to the room mate about not wanting the baby? where were the other kids?
This stinks! and mama needs to stay in jail.
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911 lady said on the call that she gave her dry clothes to change into, so I assume she was pretty wet.
 
Baby Grace's death ruled homicide

Horry County Deputy Coroner Darris Fowler confirmed Wednesday evening Grace Carlson Santa Cruz was recovered from the Socastee Creek near Simms Drive. An autopsy was performed Friday at the Medical University of South Carolina where the manner of death was ruled homicide, according to Deputy Coroner Fowler. The cause of death is still under investigation.
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http://www.wistv.com/story/30448728/baby-graces-death-ruled-homicide

Mom was strung out in court yesterday. jmo
 
While I will not and am not making excuses for this mother, the judgement being passed here never ceases to amaze me. The mother clearly has an addiction problem.

Until we start treating addiction as a real and legitimate health crisis and start getting people the help they need without jail time, we are going to continue to see cases like this.

It is easy to say "oh as a parent she should never be doing drugs. I would never do that". But if you are an addict, you don't stop being an addict simply because you give birth. It doesn't work that way. It also is ludicrous to think that an addict is thinking clearly enough to not get pregnant in the first place. That just isn't reality. Until you really have been there or understand the brain chemistry behind addiction, you just won't understand and it is insane to pass judgement without offering real solutions.
 
sunflowerchick said:
While I will not and am not making excuses for this mother, the judgement being passed here never ceases to amaze me. The mother clearly has an addiction problem.

Until we start treating addiction as a real and legitimate health crisis and start getting people the help they need without jail time, we are going to continue to see cases like this.

It is easy to say "oh as a parent she should never be doing drugs. I would never do that". But if you are an addict, you don't stop being an addict simply because you give birth. It doesn't work that way. It also is ludicrous to think that an addict is thinking clearly enough to not get pregnant in the first place. That just isn't reality. Until you really have been there or understand the brain chemistry behind addiction, you just won't understand and it is insane to pass judgement without offering real solutions.
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BBM
Shame the addict was thinking clearly enough to become an addict in the first place. Unless the person was forced to take their first hit of the addictive substance they made that conscious decision. Life is a series of choices - make a bad one & it's your responsibility, no-one else's. IMO the wishy-washy liberal "it's not their fault, you don't understand" thinking is half the problem these days - people need to be responsible for their actions. And if those actions include getting addicted to drugs & getting pregnant then they should be held accountable - tying tubes would be a good start too.

There are too many people who want, but can't have, children. There are also too many people who are addicts & having and then neglecting or killing their precious children. This is unforgivable & avoidable IMO

(Not a personal attack on you btw Sunflowerchick, just another point of view) :)
 
It really is sad that strung out junkies are allowed near innocent children. The most vulnerable of society.

She was strung out at the court hearing, you could see it in her movements and you could definitely hear it in her voice, just watching her made me sick. She should never have had custody of baby Grace.

From experience no junkie ever gets clean unless they want to get clean, they have to say no to the drugs before anyone can help them. If you try to force them to be clean they just get mad and steal/sell their body and runaway and use again, it's a vicious cycle. You can't help those that aren't willing to help themselves first.

I pray for justice for sweet baby Grace
 
Purplepixii said:
BBM
Shame the addict was thinking clearly enough to become an addict in the first place. Unless the person was forced to take their first hit of the addictive substance they made that conscious decision. Life is a series of choices - make a bad one & it's your responsibility, no-one else's. IMO the wishy-washy liberal "it's not their fault, you don't understand" thinking is half the problem these days - people need to be responsible for their actions. And if those actions include getting addicted to drugs & getting pregnant then they should be held accountable - tying tubes would be a good start too.

There are too many people who want, but can't have, children. There are also too many people who are addicts & having and then neglecting or killing their precious children. This is unforgivable & avoidable IMO

(Not a personal attack on you btw Sunflowerchick, just another point of view) :)
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BBM. It's honestly rarely that cut and dried. And I say that from experience as a recovering addict & alcoholic.

I used to just drink socially when I first became of legal age. I didn't have a problem having a glass of wine and then just putting it away. Going out with friends on a Saturday night and having just a beer or two and then nothing again for several weeks.

When things got rough in my life, I drank a little more, and then a little more, and one day I could no longer just have one. Something shifted in my brain chemistry, and it will never be the same.

I never could have predicted with that first drink that the occasional social drinking would have led me down the path that I went.
 
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