SC - Heather Elvis, 20, Myrtle Beach, 18 Dec 2013 #24 **ARREST**

[SilkySifaka]

This is along the lines of what I believe- I've never had the feeling that SM killed her but I have never waivered fom the thought that TM did- I believe she is not only narcissistic, she is EVIL as they come . I have previously had the feeling this was pre-planned but am leaning more toward the caught in the act scenario.
I don't think SM would have wanted anything to happen to HE BUT DO BELIEVE HE HELPED COVER IT UP AFTER THE FACT !

I don't think he would be charged with premeditated murder with malice aforethought if that was the case. I think they have solid evidence against both of them. Its unethical to charge ppl with more than can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

I think people here are going to be shocked at the extent of SM's involvement. I would even go so far as to say that he killed her with TM and came up with the idea to save his behind and his marriage. He only told her he was leaving TM to get her out to PTL.

We do know something about his character he was a cheater and a liar through and through. He gets no benefit of the doubt from me.

jmo

 

[margarita25]

Agreed, good post.

Really the only 2 scenarios I see at this time clearly as a motive for SM would be if [modsnip]. SM could stand a lot to lose. His kids, his wife, his home [modsnip]) The other scenario would be if TM "made him do it" somehow.

If the M's are the correct people in custody, which is obviously likely, then I'm seeing this more as TM being the trigger person. As mentioned in numerous posts by many here, I think its possible TM followed SM, or was tracking him somehow. She could have even set him up. JMO [modsnip].

So, why did HE drive to PTL? What was so urgent at 3am? The only 2 things I can think of right now are 1)[modsnip] 2)SM convinced her on the phone that they really should be together, he persuaded her to meet him for a rendezvous or discussion.

jmo

Woops, that's a bunch a modsnips. Sorry about that Salem. Duly Noted over here what was snipped! I apologize!

 

[jillycat]

I don't think he would be charged with premeditated murder with malice aforethought if that was the case. I think they have solid evidence against both of them. Its unethical to charge ppl with more than can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

I think people here are going to be shocked at the extent of SM's involvement. I would even go so far as to say that he killed her with TM and came up with the idea to save his behind and his marriage. He only told her he was leaving TM to get her out to PTL.

We do know something about his character he was a cheater and a liar through and through. He gets no benefit of the doubt from me.

jmo

Exactly.

 

[intothedeep]

"I appreciate your details about the Waccamaw. Maybe you can confirm or debunk this other idea. There was some speculation about whether or not the Moorers could've used a boat and dropped HE in another location on the river.

My husband has a little john boat and we would never go out on the Waccamaw at night, especially those little narrow fingers here and there. We had a friend whose son was killed several years ago. He'd been knocked unconscious by a low limb he drove under in the dark.

Do you ever go out on the river at night? Do you think the Moorers would have?"

BBM. Thanks! I would say that yes, they could have gone out in a boat at night. I have not nor would I ever go out on that river at night. I have grown up around water and I would not feel comfortable going out there in the dark. I am so sorry to hear about your friend's son. That is terrible. The trees that line the river have many branches that go out over the water. Most people familiar with this river know you have to stay away from the sides because of the branches and the snakes that like to hang out in them. Otherwise, you'll get a mad water moccasin in your boat.

There are so many scenarios that could have happened. Right now, I think I am leaning more towards the theory that HE pulled up to PTL alongside SM's truck to meet him. TM showed up or was already with SM and an altercation occurred. I believe that HE was killed or severely disabled there at PTL. It all would have happened quickly. In the panic that ensued, I believe they put her in the water, took or disposed of her keys/purse, knowing it could be days to find her. I can't emphasize how fast the currents are in that water. In addition, maybe the M's thought the water would "wash" away evidence. I think in that situation, putting HE in their truck would have been more risky for them. Another thing, it has been unseasonably cold here in SC this winter. The water is colder, the air is colder, etc. Much of the underbrush is gone which would have limited ground cover for hiding a body. Since the water is so cold, it would delay the decomp of the body versus the summer time. I have attempted to insert the data on the water temperature for the Waccamaw for 12/17/13-12/21/13:

http://waterdata.usgs.gov/nwis/uv?cb_00065=on&cb_00300=on&cb_00010=on&format=gif_default&period=&begin_date=2013-12-17&end_date=2013-12-21&site_no=02110802

The water temps hovered around 50-53 degrees during this time which is quite cold. I know you all know when bodies decomp in water, the gases produced will cause the body to rise. I think its quite possible that she was put in the water. She would have moved from PTL very quickly. Gosh, I hate to even write this stuff. I'm just not sure what evidence LE would have found that would have linked them to murder in this scenario though.

Hey truck driver, your last sentence is what leads me to believe she's not in the water at PTL. Maybe a separate water spot. PTL seems a little too close for the M's comfort. Where's the next closest river access?

Whatever evidence they have positively linking the M's to premeditated murder would likely come from HE DNA or photographic evidence. I can't think of any other source. If someone else can, please help me out. Even a taped conversation would be hard to prosecute with no physical evidence.

If they put HE in the water at PTL, then where's the physical evidence of murder? Blood at the scene wouldn't confirm murder. I've read the posts about hair testing after death. What's the time frame on that? Would a hair strand show a death that occurred less than an hour before? Hair would definitely be harmful to the M's defense if it was found in their vehicle or home.

That lack of undergrowth on the river's edge would make footprints tough to cover in the dark, right? If they'd walked any distance at the river's edge, do you think that would've been visible? If HE never stepped foot off the pavement, I can see where the dogs might have trouble tracking a scent 2 days later.

Your thoughts bring up an interesting question. If they did put HE in the water, would they weigh her down (this feels so wrong to write) so she wouldn't be discovered immediately, or would they hope for currents to take her away as you suggested, but take the chance of evidence surfacing?

Would the inherent problems in both scenarios lead them another way? I'm thinking they wouldn't take the chance on either water option right there beside the scene of the crime.

 

[Seajay]

First one I can think of is Bambi where Bambi's mother is killed by a hunter in the beginning of the movie. Disney movies aren't always that benign.

Old Yeller got rabies and was killed.
Ariel ran away
Belle was held prisoner
Cinderella was abused by her step mother and step sisters
Snow White was poisoned by her stepmother
I think there is something to overcome in each Disney movie, something awful befalls our hero/heroine in each movie.

 

[Ellee]

I'm new here, so I'm not sure what can and can't be said. And I don't meany any disrespect by this at all, but I am surprised at how many people feel like SM isn't just as much of a murderer as TM. I think that TM is most likely the one who had the initial idea, but the fact is SM was charged with all of the same crimes as TM by LE, and that must be for a reason. If he truly didn't play a part in her murder, I'm sure he would have rolled on TM by now, and I'm sure LE wouldn't have charged him with first degree murder. We don't have all of the pieces yet, but behind the scenes there must be some good evidence against the both of them to bring forth the charges. I think because everyone loves or has come to love Heather so much they want to believe SM loved Heather too, and truly cared about her, but at the end of the day he did play some role in her murder, so he couldn't have cared for her that much. And in some ways I think that makes him even worse than TM. SM knew Heather, he had a relationship with her, and she trusted him to some extent, and yet he was still able to contribute to her murder.

 

[intothedeep]

I don't think he would be charged with premeditated murder with malice aforethought if that was the case. I think they have solid evidence against both of them. Its unethical to charge ppl with more than can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

I think people here are going to be shocked at the extent of SM's involvement. I would even go so far as to say that he killed her with TM and came up with the idea to save his behind and his marriage. He only told her he was leaving TM to get her out to PTL.

We do know something about his character he was a cheater and a liar through and through. He gets no benefit of the doubt from me.

jmo

I agree LE wouldn't just roll the dice on SM's charge. They've got him present and accounted for.
I think I've really wanted him to be "less guilty" - coerced or something. I wanted to believe he felt something for HE. She seems to have felt something for him.
In many ways his involvement is worse than TM's. TM was a woman scorned, one who never knew HE in any meaningful way.
SM knew HE intimately. HE trusted him.

TE's words keep coming back to me, about "someone she trusted betraying her."
However whipped we tend to picture SM, he alone is the betrayer in this story.
First his wife, then Heather.

 

[intothedeep]

I'm new here, so I'm not sure what can and can't be said. And I don't meany any disrespect by this at all, but I am surprised at how many people feel like SM isn't just as much of a murderer as TM. I think that TM is most likely the one who had the initial idea, but the fact is SM was charged with all of the same crimes as TM by LE, and that must be for a reason. If he truly didn't play a part in her murder, I'm sure he would have rolled on TM by now, and I'm sure LE wouldn't have charged him with first degree murder. We don't have all of the pieces yet, but behind the scenes there must be some good evidence against the both of them to bring forth the charges. I think because everyone loves or has come to love Heather so much they want to believe SM loved Heather too, and truly cared about her, but at the end of the day he did play some role in her murder, so he couldn't have cared for her that much. And in some ways I think that makes him even worse than TM. SM knew Heather, he had a relationship with her, and she trusted him to some extent, and yet he was still able to contribute to her murder.

Looks like we were thinking this at the same time. A little eerie.

 

[Ellee]

Looks like we were thinking this at the same time. A little eerie.

I just read your post, and thought the same thing!

 

[margarita25]

Has anyone here seen the actual affidavits when they were arrested?
I just viewed them online.
The IE charge states :
"Willfully, maliciously and indecently exposed his person in a public place or property of others or to the view of any person on the street or highway"
I don't believe this would involve an obscene or perverse text.
Am i reading this wrong?

hmmmm

 

[cujenn81]

Can you work a barshift under 21? Heather was 20. I worked in strip clubs before the age of 21 and obviously worked till 4am - but our servers had to be 21

Deleted: someone already clarified HE was a hostess.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[momrids6]

Remember TM also watched (more like idolized) Nancy Grace. So its not like nothing like this has ever entered her subconscious before, meaning awareness of missing persons investigations and disposing of evidence. And being so familiar with the area...

rsbm; i think you may be onto something... i wonder what ng covered/discussed that week?

 

[BellaCouture]

I'm new here, so I'm not sure what can and can't be said. And I don't meany any disrespect by this at all, but I am surprised at how many people feel like SM isn't just as much of a murderer as TM. I think that TM is most likely the one who had the initial idea, but the fact is SM was charged with all of the same crimes as TM by LE, and that must be for a reason. If he truly didn't play a part in her murder, I'm sure he would have rolled on TM by now, and I'm sure LE wouldn't have charged him with first degree murder. We don't have all of the pieces yet, but behind the scenes there must be some good evidence against the both of them to bring forth the charges. I think because everyone loves or has come to love Heather so much they want to believe SM loved Heather too, and truly cared about her, but at the end of the day he did play some role in her murder, so he couldn't have cared for her that much. And in some ways I think that makes him even worse than TM. SM knew Heather, he had a relationship with her, and she trusted him to some extent, and yet he was still able to contribute to her murder.

BBM

And this is what I find so horrific. It does make him much more of an evil person. The only way to describe him is that he is a sociopath. Once they get what they want from you, and you are no longer any use to them, they discard you. Who knows, maybe he was just as evil and spiteful as TM, he just didn't show it so obviously as she did.

 

[Seajay]

BBM

And this is what I find so horrific. It does make him much more of an evil person. The only way to describe him is that he is a sociopath. Once they get what they want from you, and you are no longer any use to them, they discard you. Who knows, maybe he was just as evil and spiteful as TM, he just didn't show it so obviously as she did.

I'm with both of you on this. I had a hard time understanding why and how SM would be involved in this. He knew HE, he had a relationship with her. He knew her intimately. She trusted him. How could he get to a place where murdering her was an option. I can see why TM would think it's a good idea, after all, she needed to take out the competition, ie Heather. Some women do resort to going after the other woman with a vengeance, feeling she, not the husband is ruining her life and marriage. Not that what TM did was right, but to me, it's more in line with what happens sometimes.

But with SM, how did HE become the enemy? One that was expendable? What unforgiveable crime did he think she committed that deserved the death penalty? What did she do that he hadn't done???

So it comes full circle. He brought this into their marriage, so TM expected him to help her get rid of the problem. She must have laid a whole lot of guilt on his doorstep to get him to go for this idea of murdering HE. It's one thing to be a gutless, pansy a$$ed sissy with your wife, but it's quite another to cross the line into murder for her. Wow. IMO

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I think the roommate knows exactly why HRE went to meet SM. BW was told not to discuss the information by LE. She will be able to explain more about HRE being upset.

Meeting SM at PTL early in the morning does not seem out of the norm for a clandestine relationship hence the term. Bad idea to meet out in the open in the place where his wife grew up. Also BW being away didn't mean HRE wanted to bring him to their new apartment. Maybe HRE didn't want him to know where she lived for different reasons outside of him being married.

We don't have a clue how he acted toward HRE other than her boss at TK saying they both were courting one another equally. This would be normal in the first phase of a relationship. However, it is obvious in his other relationship there are some huge issues. He could have grown jealous, possessive, and even abusive. (Did she have a pattern emerging of dating this type of man since her former BF had violent traits according to TE?) HRE confided in BW, but she may not have shared those details. BW didn't appear to call around looking for HRE later that day or the next. If she had any indication HRE was in danger, she would have tracked her down or called her parents.

We are missing so much of the story and with LE's iron clad wall of no info...we have a long wait.

 

[momrids6]

rsbm; i think you may be onto something... i wonder what ng covered/discussed that week?

found it;

December 17, 2013
• Doctor Accused of Poisoning Wife With Cyanide; The $50K Breakup


December 16, 2013
• Wealthy Dentist Indicted in Wife`s Death; Shopper Shot to Death at Upscale Mall


December 13, 2013
• Nancy Grace Mysteries: Melanie McGuire, The Suitcase Killer


December 12, 2013
• Charges Dropped Against George Zimmerman; Bride Set to Walk Free on Plea Deal?


December 11, 2013
• Man Leaves Baby in Car to Party at Strip Club; Abduction Caught on Video; Teen Who Killed 4 Given Probation


December 10, 2013
• Nevada Family Found in Mountains; Zimmerman`s Girlfriend Takes It All Back; Blake Shelton Out for Justice


December 09, 2013
• NH Mom Receives Letter From Missing Teen Daughter; Kentucky Mom Tries to Sell Newborn Twice


December 06, 2013
• Nancy Grace Mysteries: Jodi Huisentruit


December 05, 2013
• Oregon Police Search for 13-Year-Old Girl; Minnesota Woman Stabs Husband in Bathtub; Illinois Woman Predicts Own Murder on Facebook; Facebook Murder Conviction?; Doctor Snaps, Believes Hubby is Cheating; Shoplifting Mom Forgot about Her Two Children


December 04, 2013
• Nancy Grace Mysteries, Maddie McCann

-------------------------------------------------------
bbm http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ng.html

 

[Rosierose]

I'm with both of you on this. I had a hard time understanding why and how SM would be involved in this. He knew HE, he had a relationship with her. He knew her intimately. She trusted him. How could he get to a place where murdering her was an option. I can see why TM would think it's a good idea, after all, she needed to take out the competition, ie Heather. Some women do resort to going after the other woman with a vengeance, feeling she, not the husband is ruining her life and marriage. Not that what TM did was right, but to me, it's more in line with what happens sometimes.

But with SM, how did HE become the enemy? One that was expendable? What unforgiveable crime did he think she committed that deserved the death penalty? What did she do that he hadn't done???

So it comes full circle. He brought this into their marriage, so TM expected him to help her get rid of the problem. She must have laid a whole lot of guilt on his doorstep to get him to go for this idea of murdering HE. It's one thing to be a gutless, pansy a$$ed sissy with your wife, but it's quite another to cross the line into murder for her. Wow. IMO

This is what I am struggling with the most too. I can look at T M and say, yeah she was the scorned wife (not making excuses, but it's an easier to understand motivation), but SM…..He was intimate with HE. I can only imagine the horror HE felt when she realised the man she trusted was going to hurt her. It is horrific.

 

[bamcaan]

I'm gonna jump off of some of the above posts and throw this out there. I think the affair went on longer than what TM stated in her famous rant and that she knew it went on longer than that. I think the trip to California was an attempt at reconciliation and all the FB lovey/dovey stuff was her attempt to show the world that all was right with their world.

For whatever reason, Heather and SM were reconnected. Who knows who contacted whom first that night or what was said? I think TM found out they were in contact that night. Perhaps she heard the calls or texts that were coming in or going out.

If the last call was 3:41, I see it entirely possible that TM continued the communication with Heather, posing as SM, up until 6:00, maybe while he was asleep. Who knows? Perhaps TM herself set up that meeting at PTL to set things straight with Heather.

I think SM may have discovered these communications between TM and Heather. That could explain, if it did happen, why SM called her from the supposed pay phone. To warn Heather not to go there, and not have a record of it on his phone for TM to see.

If so, and Heather told him she was already at PTL, and SM went there to prevent or intervene in the meeting between them, and whatever happened was already going on or already over with, I could easily see TM blackmailing him into helping dispose of the body. Threatening to say it was the other way around, he would go to prison too, etc.

Method of killing? I think either a gun w/ a silencer, although that doesn't feel right to me, it's not up close and personal enough, or some blunt object or perhaps a baseball bat. I've personally accidentally hit someone in the head with the swing of a baseball bat. No blood, but it certainly incapacitated them for a few minutes. Enough time that a strangling could have taken place.

I personally don't think they put her in the river. Maybe threw her keys and phone in there. But judging by the looks of that yard of theirs, I don't think either of them would be too predisposed to make the effort to drag her out far enough to get her away from the river banks so she could float downstream. I also don't think they took her too far away. All of their other trash (sorry to use that word) was just thrown out in their yard. I think they did the same thing with Heather, just threw her the closest place possible to get her out of the way (sorry) where they thought she wouldn't be found, and that she's probably off of Peachtree Rd somewhere. Why take the risk of being seen on the main roads with her? I posted earlier an area that I think she could possibly be.

As far as the IE incidents, I'm not putting too much stock in those until we see if/how they play into the timeline. Perhaps they were out shopping together a week before Christmas. TM, trying to recapture or hold onto her man, given the public persona she presented, would probably be daring enough to try/do anything to sexually please SM, any time, any where.

Sorry for the long post. Just clearing my head before bed.

MOO

 

[cujenn81]

I initially believed SM might have really planned to leave his wife or already had when he called Heather and told her as much. I believed that at some point during night, TM found out that the two of them were together & that she probably followed SM when he left to meet her (and/or tracked his phone/car, etc.) OR she intercepted phone conversations/PM's and planned to "fix the problem" for good.

However, many of you have brought up a few good points that make me think otherwise. IF Sidney was ONLY involved because he helped Tammy cover it up... (maybe he feared for his life or maybe he knew Tammy would blame it all on him... the evidence did point in his direction because he was the last person to talk to her, after all...) I think he would have talked by now.

I think we all can assume Tammy has some type of hold over Sidney. Their relationship and his kids are all he has in life. She's completely cut him off from his parents and I doubt he'd be able to afford the many trips or lifestyle he's grown accustomed to over the past 17 years. Tammy would probably do everything, and anything, possible to gain custody of their children if they got a divorce, and she would probably make it really difficult for him to even see their children. I'm sure he was well aware of that. She probably even held it over his head every day. His whole world 100% depended on this woman, and she did a great job over the years to make sure that it did. I have no doubt about that.

With that being said, I really do think Sidney cared about Heather. Yes, part of that logic is because I hate to think about him harming or using Heather intentionally. But also, I don't think Tammy would have hated Heather with so much intensity (enough intensity that she'd KILL her) unless she knew Sidney truly cared about her.

I think we can safely assume the affair began as far back as July (from HE's tweets) and possibly even as far back as March (based on HE's tweet about needing to be in FL because the distance was too much... and we know the M's were in Florida in March, as well). If the affair had already began back in March, and it ended in Sept/Oct as Tammy mentioned in her first FB post, that's 6-7 months. If it didn't end in October like TM thinks it did, you're looking at 8-9 months. That's a significant amount of time.

So now, I'm leaning more towards TM finding out that they were still in cahoots somehow. She threatened him with divorce and custody of the kids, (and possibly castration because she's a crazy lady) unless he gets rid of her for good. He complies, and they came up with the plan to lure her to PTL and murder her.

I just fear whatever they may have done to hide her body might be one that cannot be recovered. I know I keep forgetting about the amount of time that passed before anyone was aware she was missing. If the murder occurred between the hours of 3-6 am on the 18th and her car wasn't located until 7 pm on the 20th, that's like 50 some odd hours before anyone was on their radar.

I just keep replaying different scenarios in my head... trying to figure it all out. It's making me crazy!!

 

[bamcaan]

I initially believed SM might have really planned to leave his wife or already had when he called Heather and told her as much. I believed that at some point during night, TM found out that the two of them were together & that she probably followed SM when he left to meet her (and/or tracked his phone/car, etc.) OR she intercepted phone conversations/PM's and planned to "fix the problem" for good.

However, many of you have brought up a few good points that make me think otherwise. IF Sidney was ONLY involved because he helped Tammy cover it up... (maybe he feared for his life or maybe he knew Tammy would blame it all on him... the evidence did point in his direction because he was the last person to talk to her, after all...) I think he would have talked by now.

I think we all can assume Tammy has some type of hold over Sidney. Their relationship and his kids are all he has in life. She's completely cut him off from his parents and I doubt he'd be able to afford the many trips or lifestyle he's grown accustomed to over the past 17 years. Tammy would probably do everything, and anything, possible to gain custody of their children if they got a divorce, and she would probably make it really difficult for him to even see their children. I'm sure he was well aware of that. She probably even held it over his head every day. His whole world 100% depended on this woman, and she did a great job over the years to make sure that it did. I have no doubt about that.

With that being said, I really do think Sidney cared about Heather. Yes, part of that logic is because I hate to think about him harming or using Heather intentionally. But also, I don't think Tammy would have hated Heather with so much intensity (enough intensity that she'd KILL her) unless she knew Sidney truly cared about her.

I think we can safely assume the affair began as far back as July (from HE's tweets) and possibly even as far back as March (based on HE's tweet about needing to be in FL because the distance was too much... and we know the M's were in Florida in March, as well). If the affair had already began back in March, and it ended in Sept/Oct as Tammy mentioned in her first FB post, that's 6-7 months. If it didn't end in October like TM thinks it did, you're looking at 8-9 months. That's a significant amount of time.

So now, I'm leaning more towards TM finding out that they were still in cahoots somehow. She threatened him with divorce and custody of the kids, (and possibly castration because she's a crazy lady) unless he gets rid of her for good. He complies, and they came up with the plan to lure her to PTL and murder her.

I just fear whatever they may have done to hide her body might be one that cannot be recovered. I know I keep forgetting about the amount of time that passed before anyone was aware she was missing. If the murder occurred between the hours of 3-6 am on the 18th and her car wasn't located until 7 pm on the 20th, that's like 50 some odd hours before anyone was on their radar.

I just keep replaying different scenarios in my head... trying to figure it all out. It's making me crazy!!

"

"Unless she knew Sidney truly cared about her".