SC - Heather Elvis, 20, Myrtle Beach, 18 Dec 2013 #26***ARREST**

[Bittiness39]

I think it might be the "luring her to PTL" under false pretenses (if that's what happened) that prompted the kidnapping charge.


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That and without the body of Heather tack on all the charges you can. If they never find her maybe a jury not able to come to a determination of who did what and how it happened could at least find both SM and TM guilty of kidnapping, and so on. There is always a risk that a jury (since there is more than one defendant accused of murder) might not be able to come to a murder determination. Clearly, murder happened. Did they both strike fatal blows or did one just lure and watch? Or did only one participate and the other help cover up? If they were both aware that murder was going to happen (which is what I believe and what I think LE and the DA believe) it is still a risk in front of a jury. I guarantee you that they will at least BOTH be found of kidnapping though. Because once you start harming someone and not allowing them to find help/safety/relief you are holding them against their will. Hence, kidnapping.

 

[PeterThomasFan]

There are now two active murder cases in Horry County in which no body has been found.

Along with the Angie Pipkin case, Sidney and Tammy Moorer are charged with murder in the disappearance of Heather Elvis.

Trying murder cases without a body a challenge for prosecutors

 

[Justice4Heather]

When I went down there last Saturday with my metal detector, I combed the whole right side - where Heather's car was parked - all the way to the entrance. I did not comb the memorial - I didn't want to disturb it. I also combed a little toward the boat launch but I didn't comb the trailer park side. Thank you for doing that.

Thank you as well!!!! When I was there today the currents had shifted towards shore, so I was hoping that if something important gone thrown in the water, such as keys or something to that effect got pushed in closer to the shore.

 

[Softail]

Actually 3!



Trying murder cases without a body a challenge for prosecutors

Not in Horry county, but Holly Bobo has not been found either.

 

[PeterThomasFan]

Not in Horry county, but Holly Bobo has not been found either.

I redacted my comment!

I was thinking there were 3.

 

[Justice4Heather]

[modsnip]. Think of all the trauma for them.


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Think of the trauma the Elvis family is enduring the last couple of months. JMO

 

[floridamomma]

I'm sorry but Heather's family had no consideration given them.

I get that, totally. but two wrongs don't make a right.
(I support the dp, however, to play devils advocate, [modsnip].)

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[cluciano63]

Prosecutirs have to keep trying these cases, more and more, so people get more used to it. Bodies cannot always be recovered and murderers can't be rewarded for that. JMO

 

[SharetheLight]

That and without the body of Heather tack on all the charges you can. If they never find her maybe a jury not able to come to a determination of who did what and how it happened could at least find both SM and TM guilty of kidnapping, and so on. There is always a risk that a jury (since there is more than one defendant accused of murder) might not be able to come to a murder determination. Clearly, murder happened. Did they both strike fatal blows or did one just lure and watch? Or did only one participate and the other help cover up? If they were both aware that murder was going to happen (which is what I believe and what I think LE and the DA believe) it is still a risk in front of a jury. I guarantee you that they will at least BOTH be found of kidnapping though. Because once you start harming someone and not allowing them to find help/safety/relief you are holding them against their will. Hence, kidnapping.

I thought someone just said since there are no degrees of murder in SC if you are there you can be charged with murder. If this is true, I suppose they won't need to prove exactly whose hands are responsible and whose hands helped later as long as both were there when the murder took place. Or did I get that wrong?
This SC charge is bizarre with no degrees.

 

[Derdew]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before but there have been cases where the local dump has been searched. Do we know if this has been done. Do they utilize a landfill in SC If they put heather in a dumpster somewhere ?

 

[Justice4Heather]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before but there have been cases where the local dump has been searched. Do we know if this has been done. Do they utilize a landfill in SC If they put heather in a dumpster somewhere ?

I have talked about this and I posted a link to show all 24 convenience dump sites in the county. I also spoke with 2 ladies at 2 diff sites and they didn't have surveillance. I cannot say that about all the sites but one lady "P" told me "Ive worked a few sites and have never seen cameras, just gates). I made a call but never got info back from HCPD whether they searched the landfill on Hwy 90 or not. JMO, I am hoping that when warrants were signed, they allowed HCPD to go in the dump right behind them( undercover of course) and take all the trash they dropped off.

 

[Catlady2]

That and without the body of Heather tack on all the charges you can. If they never find her maybe a jury not able to come to a determination of who did what and how it happened could at least find both SM and TM guilty of kidnapping, and so on. There is always a risk that a jury (since there is more than one defendant accused of murder) might not be able to come to a murder determination. Clearly, murder happened. Did they both strike fatal blows or did one just lure and watch? Or did only one participate and the other help cover up? If they were both aware that murder was going to happen (which is what I believe and what I think LE and the DA believe) it is still a risk in front of a jury. I guarantee you that they will at least BOTH be found of kidnapping though. Because once you start harming someone and not allowing them to find help/safety/relief you are holding them against their will. Hence, kidnapping.

Great post! I don't think the Ms are that brilliant to plan an elaborate lure/plan. I think all the clues paint a picture of a young girl murdered by a jealous wife. I don't think sm loved her persay but only wanted the physical relationship to continue. I think when tm pulled in catching them both she went to the truck with whatever weapon she had and commited this. I see sm as a 4th child in the Ms relationship. I think her car locked and the cadaver dog hitting on h.e. scent then walking around and sitting meant she got into that truck willingly. I don't know how guilty I see one of the Ms verses the other. Sm knew his wife was bat crazy and was lacking in anger management/violent. All IMO....but one thing they did do was cover this up and cause more harm after the fact and that to me was salt in the wound. I hope jurors are allowed to see things they did afterwards hurting the family more and more... evil woman...

 

[hockeymom4]

Trying murder cases without a body a challenge for prosecutors

This provides some information as to the evidence they had in one of the girls cases and how they were able to get a conviction. The mom was sentenced to 20 years. Charges against Dad were dropped. The other case they plead guilty, so not sure what evidence they really had and if it would have proved to be a guilty verdict.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/bennett_kynande.html

I read the article at Carolina Live and um, if I was on a jury it would take A LOT to convince me that someone was deceased and that the people in front of me did it, especially two people, if there is no body. The person not using facebook, social media, a cell phone, not telling someone to feed their dog, check their mail, etc...does not tell me they have been murdered. I have seen way to many teens to 60 year olds abandon that. And it is not evidence that the person is deceased and/or murdered and at the hands of the people being charged. I think back to the mom and wife who vanished and then reappeared after 20 years. Now clearly they wouldn't have had blood, but they suspected her husband. A lot of people did. That is what would worry me.

So, after reading the link about kynande, it got me thinking... Maybe they found blood splatter and then bleach from them trying to clean it up? That would for sure be evidence and not evidence that should be in the car. I could see that being a possibility. Something else I was thinking was what if they had her wrapped in a blanket or tarp or something in the back of the truck and then washed it, bleached it and they took that? Maybe they saw it in the video. I don't know why I didn't think of the bleach. So many people think bleach gets rid of things, but clearly it doesn't.

 

[Bittiness39]

I thought someone just said since there are no degrees of murder in SC if you are there you can be charged with murder. If this is true, I suppose they won't need to prove exactly whose hands are responsible and whose hands helped later as long as both were there when the murder took place. Or did I get that wrong?
This SC charge is bizarre with no degrees.

Wow. I can only speak to Texas law so...wow. Not your post. Which was awesome. But if true...no degrees of murder? Yikes. I say this only because say a SC citizen accidentally killed someone vs. killed them in cold blood. Wow. Intent has to be the big factor here. I still think SM lured her knowing full well what would happen to HE when she came to PTL. Why was SM able to lure her? Allegedly, but moo. Lots of speculation. Lots. Most we cannot post nor talk about. I hate both TM and SM sooooo much. Not just for Heather but for their own children. :jail::banghead:

 

[jillycat]

Thank you for answering the part clarifying that a deceased person cannot be kidnapped. I'm still confused about how every single person who is murdered is not kidnapped by definition- as they are being murdered, they are not exercising their free will and are being detained, kwim?

This isn't pointed at you, but the definition, which I have looked up but am still confused about.

I do see your point. But to me it's the same premise as all cognac is brandy, but not all brandy is cognac. All kidnapping involves detaining a person against their will, but not all types of detainment are kidnapping. The M's did something specific that meets a criteria in SC statutes.

I think about criminal charges strictly in terms of that state's laws concerning crimes against the person. In another state, the kidnapping charge that applies to them in SC might not apply. It might just be murder. Or assault and murder. Or something else and murder.

FWIW, in Colorado, you can be charged with multiple counts of murder 1, as the killer of Jessica Ridgeway was. He was also charged with attempted kidnapping and kidnapping (among other charges...there were 15 total). It seems logical enough that if he kidnapped her, there was a successful attempt, so why distinguish? In that case, the state charged him with every single state law they could apply to his crime against Jessica to prevent his parole, ever.

 

[cluciano63]

Wow. I can only speak to Texas law so...wow. Not your post. Which was awesome. But if true...no degrees of murder? Yikes. I say this only because say a SC citizen accidentally killed someone vs. killed them in cold blood. Wow. Intent has to be the big factor here. I still think SM lured her knowing full well what would happen to HE when she came to PTL. Why was SM able to lure her? Allegedly, but moo. Lots of speculation. Lots. Most we cannot post nor talk about. I hate both TM and SM sooooo much. Not just for Heather but for their own children. :jail::banghead:

Sc has manslaughter and murder. Nothing in between.

 

[cujenn81]

Was this ever seized? Does anyone know? I asked yesterday but I don't think anyone had an answer.

I don't think so.


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[cujenn81]

Sorry. I have no idea except alerting a mod about the picture that's blowing the margins. I'm not having that issue, but when I do, that's what I do (or just wait until someone explains to the poster how to resize it, which I don't know how to do, either )

Is it my picture?


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[jillycat]

Seems everyone who is about to be murdered is prevented from exercising their will.

But that generalization doesn't satisfy every state's kidnapping laws.

 

[LBDunes]

Which is why I don't understand why they would say the DP is off the table.

Does anyone think it may be the case that they don't want to overcharge one of the M's? We may never know if only one of them actually did the 'deed', unless one of them rolls over. It may not have been both of them? Maybe one was an accessory after the fact? In a lot of these cases lately you hear all of the talking heads saying "the prosecutor overcharged". It possibly could be they don't think they can get a DP conviction w/o a body?