SC - Nine killed in Emanuel AME Church shooting, Charleston; Dylann Roof charged #1

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Summerfun said:
This is extremely heartbreaking. But senseless killings like this did not happen 15 years ago, especially with the suspects/killers being so young.
These young people are desensitized by playing stupid video games where you kill people and the more people you kill earns you a higher score.
Sad but true.
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That's just not the case - Brenda Spencer was 16 years old in 1979 when she killed two and injured several others (including children) during a sniper attack on an elementary school with a rifle her father had given her for Christmas. And she is far from alone in being a young killer committing senseless crimes when allowed access to a lethal weapon.

Going back decades, long before the rise of video games and even rock music, there were young shooters committing murder. But, in my opinion, there's also been a rise of mental health issues, drug abuse and gun ownership over the last several decades too. We can also add a higher divorce statistic, less people attending church, less people cooking from scratch, two income families, etc. My point really is that I believe a lot of factors are at play as to why such violent, senseless acts occur - some relevant, some not so much - but it isn't as simple as gaming. 1.2 billion people play video games worldwide. My backstabbing rogue-self included. I even play games with my teenage kids. And I'm old enough to begrudgingly admit I played the first Doom game - I wasn't scarred for life. Now...if I'd been mentally ill, had access to a firearm, was on drugs, and a thousand other what ifs - maybe.

While Doom and other violent video games have been blamed for nationally covered school shootings, 2008 research featured by Greater Good Science Center[42] shows that the two are not closely related. Harvard medical school researchers Cheryl Olson and Lawrence Kutner found that violent video games did not correlate to school shootings. The U.S. Secret Service and Department of Education analyzed 37 incidents of school violence and sought to develop a profile of school shooters, they discovered that the most common traits among shooters were that they were male and had histories of depression and attempted suicide. While many of the killers—like the vast majority of young teenage boys—did play video games, this study did not find a relationship between game play and school shootings. In fact, only one eighth of the shooters showed any special interest in violent video games; far less than the number of shooters who seemed attracted to books and movies with violent content.[43]
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doom_(1993_video_game)
 
AngelWings444 said:
Like I do? Huh? Please explain. You lost me on this one.
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Lol, I should have used a smilie.

I meant "Like ya do" as in "well, of COURSE they gave him drugs and a gun, like any NORMAL person would (heavy sarcasm)"

Sorry if you thought I meant something not nice towards you!!!
 
Montjoy said:
Not to speak for EllieBee, I think she meant that giving drugs and a gun to someone on his birthday "is the sort of thing one does" -- jokingly, that is. I don't think she was saying that you personally are in the habit of giving guns and pills as birthday presents.
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Yes, thank you! You said it better then I.

Please speak for my anytime. :lol:
 
Montjoy said:
Right, but there was no attempt to "intimidate or coerce a civilian population." What was the intimidation -- to discourage people from being black or going to church? Where was the coercion?

This was a one-off. He said he 'wanted to kill black people' -- with no purpose declared.

As a hate crime, he will be tried federally and it will be a capital offense.
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I see your point, but if we factor in the alleged "tell everyone what happened here tonight" thing, would that change or add to the purpose of the massacre?

To me, that little piece of the story (if true) makes this sound like he wanted to make this a warning that there will be more killing of black people. So I lean towards it being terrorism, too.

Not enough coffee yet. Words sense not making much.
 
Montjoy said:
Not to speak for EllieBee, I think she meant that giving drugs and a gun to someone on his birthday "is the sort of thing one does" -- jokingly, that is. I don't think she was saying that you personally are in the habit of giving guns and pills as birthday presents.
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I am not seeing were he was given the gun, but was given money and he bought a gun. Is there a link that the gun was bought for him or did that get twisted?

Meeks said Roof also told him that he had used birthday money from his parents to buy a gun and that he had "a plan." He didn't elaborate on what it was, but Meeks said he was worried — and said he knew Roof had the "Glock" — a .45 caliber pistol — in the trunk of his car.


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/06/19/survivors-charleston-church-shooting-played-dead-friends-say/
 
BritsKate said:
That's just not the case - Brenda Spencer was 16 years old in 1979 when she killed two and injured several others (including children) during a sniper attack on an elementary school with a rifle her father had given her for Christmas. And she is far from alone in being a young killer committing senseless crimes when allowed access to a lethal weapon.
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-snipped-
Probably the only case when a perp was a female.

It concerns me a great deal that these kind of shooting sprees, can be and will be politicized to advance certain agenda, whether its gun grabbing or someone's obsession with race.
Previously one loon killed many, because he couldnt get laid in Hollywood.
They are all troubled individuals, motivation secondary, insignificant, it can be anything like 'I dont like Mondays' like Brenda Spencer was quoted as saying, well who does? But most people dont kill because of that.

(All in my opinion only, respectfully)


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Brightbird said:
Overall violent crime and homicide is going down in developed countries, and violent movies and video games are as popular as ever. But mass shootings are on the rise in America. I don't think video games are the problem. I don't know what the problem is either.
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It's prescription medication. It's far, far more dangerous than video games imho....... If he was buying it on the street and it's not prescribed to him and for him then it's the same as street drugs. Altering the way the mind works and thinks is a dangerous game of its own.

ETA I 'm not implying that street drugs did not play a role. But a huge % of ' spree killers' were on prescription meds . When people are taking a cocktail of street and pharm meds, they're playing with fire and cannot know how their minds will react and I doubt if many street junkies tell the doctor when asking for meds that they are also on meth or what not. Its' just not that likely again imho
I've known many , many people who drink regularly and take prescription meds that specifically say " do not take with alcohol' and they do it daily but they do not say to the dr " oh hey, I'm a really heavy drinker so will this med interfere with that ? " They just take both and hope for the best or enjoy the double ' high' .
 
Elley Mae said:
I am not seeing were he was given the gun, but was given money and he bought a gun. Is there a link that the gun was bought for him or did that get twisted?

Meeks said Roof also told him that he had used birthday money from his parents to buy a gun and that he had "a plan." He didn't elaborate on what it was, but Meeks said he was worried — and said he knew Roof had the "Glock" — a .45 caliber pistol — in the trunk of his car.


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/06/19/survivors-charleston-church-shooting-played-dead-friends-say/
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It did not get "twisted". The original MSM links reported that his father bought him the gun for his birthday. That is when those first posts were made and later quoted.

Later stories said that a friend told reporters the dad didn't buy him the gun, but gave him bday money which he used to buy the gun.

No twisting. Just the usual developing story in MSM. It could change again tomorrow and it doesn't mean any is twisting of being disingenuous. :)
 
EllieBee said:
Once again, Stewart nailed it.
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He certainly did EllieBee and, speaking of the confederate flag flying above the SC statehouse... I sent an email last night to every single member of the house asking them to take the flag down NOW. I hope everyone else will do the same.
 
Roof’s father gave him a .45-caliber pistol for his birthday, according to uncle Charles Cowles. The uncle said he recognized Roof from the police photo and “described him as quiet and soft-spoken,” according to Reuters. He told The Washington Post that his sister "never raised him to be like this."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...ston-church-shooting-suspect-dylann-roof.html

So I really still don't think we know the real deal with the gun.
 
In other countries of he world, kids use drugs, play violent video games, have prescrption drugs, attempt suicide, have divorce. They do not have access to the one thing available in the US.
 
I haven't seen anyone claim this horrible crime wasn't motivated by racial hatred. Discussions, not just here, will continue as to whether Roof was a terrorist, a white suprematist, evil or mentally unbalanced. I don't think these characterizations are mutually exclusive. There's "something wrong" with the mind of anyone who commits mass murder with a sick desire to gain some kind of relevance or "fame". If the reports from friends are accurate that Roof hoped to start a "helter skelter" style race war, bizarre as that plan might be, I don't see how that doesn't qualify as terrorism. Roof is not merely biased. He is a extreme white suprematist who apparently wanted to murder based on race and a twisted political ideology. Even among the most depraved, there are few who would target a peaceful bible school meeting of innocents, including a 87 year old woman and a 5 year old child. If that isn't evil, what is?

I don't think tolerating offensive jokes, responding to identity politics, violent video games or a host of other things many find objectionable can be blamed. If it's true as has been reported that a search of Roof's room uncovered skin head/white supremacy literature and paraphernalia, that could explain a lot. The recruitment tools and propaganda of these hate groups are no less insidious or dangerous than Isis recruitment methods. Roof repeated but failed to complete the ninth grade before dropping out. Having no skills or aptitude to suceed, it seems likely that he could have been filled with rage and chose to blame his problems on others, in this case, people of another race. Add drug addiction to the mix, and he looks like, imo, a likely recruit for the skin head movement. This is all my opinion only, and meant in no way to excuse or mitigate Roof's actions. He is 100% responsible for his evil deeds, but it could explain how Roof evolved from racist loser to mass murderer. All MOO
 
deoneta said:
I haven't seen anyone claim this horrible crime wasn't motivated by racial hatred. Discussions, not just here, will continue as to whether Roof was a terrorist, a white suprematist, evil or mentally unbalanced. I don't think these characterizations are mutually exclusive. There's "something wrong" with the mind of anyone who commits mass murder with a sick desire to gain some kind of relevance or "fame". If the reports from friends are accurate that Roof hoped to start a "helter skelter" style race war, bizarre as that plan might be, I don't see how that doesn't qualify as terrorism. Roof is not merely biased. He is a extreme white suprematist who apparently wanted to murder based on race and a twisted political ideology. Even among the most depraved, there are few who would target a peaceful bible school meeting of innocents, including a 87 year old woman and a 5 year old child. If that isn't evil, what is?

I don't think tolerating offensive jokes, responding to identity politics, violent video games or a host of other things many find objectionable can be blamed. If it's true as has been reported that a search of Roof's room uncovered skin head/white supremacy literature and paraphernalia, that could explain a lot. The recruitment tools and propaganda of these hate groups are no less insidious or dangerous than Isis recruitment methods. Roof repeated but failed to complete the ninth grade before dropping out. Having no skills or aptitude to suceed, it seems likely that he could have been filled with rage and chose to blame his problems on others, in this case, people of another race. Add drug addiction to the mix, and he looks like, imo, a likely recruit for the skin head movement. This is all my opinion only, and meant in no way to excuse or mitigate Roof's actions. He is 100% responsible for his evil deeds, but it could explain how Roof evolved from racist loser to mass murderer. All MOO
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BBM I think this is it. Pressure to get a job but he literally didn't seem to have much ' gumption ' to do anything.
ETA, Referring to my earlier post and this one, I am not at all trying to say racism is not his main driving factor. I think that is clear. But he had some additional factors that caused him to act out. I do wonder if something happened recently that was the proverbial straw.
 
Like many of you yesterday, my heart had such a deep down hurt. It still does.

However, in the dark pain, there's also a little spark this morning, as I'm now just getting to catch up to all the beautiful vigils held last night and the videos this morning of people going to the AME to place their flowers and other touching gifts...and I'm listening to so many uplifting and sincere words from people, some that are known names to us and some that are just *average citizens.*

I am so thankful to see so many fighting off what this killer tried to do, which allegedly was to start a race war. The last year has been difficult in racial issues, starting in Ferguson last summer................but look at this, all races are coming together in this tragedy. What this killer did shocks and disgusts us at our very deepest core. That is what I am finding beautiful this morning. So Dylann, you FAILED in the biggest way.
 
Anderson Cooper 360° retweeted
New Day ‏@NewDay 1h1 hour ago

#BREAKING: #CharlestonShooting suspect confesses to the massacre, tells police he wanted to start a race war.
http://cnn.it/1FqLn9V
 
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