SC - Nine killed in Emanuel AME Church shooting, Charleston; Dylann Roof charged #1

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There is just no acceptable rationale for an irrational act. Human potential is a wild card. If it hadn't been this kid and this crime, it would have been another person and another equally horrific crime. I don't personally hate the perpetrator; but I do hate the subculture that nourished his world view, and continues to thrive in American society. There is no quick fix, but there are measures that can be taken constitutionally, for the purpose of " insuring domestic tranquility" and "promoting the general welfare" that could take a bite out of these rampant painful incidents.
But, as always, NOW is said to be not the time for the American people to address these issues. We are just supposed to grieve and then move on. Very sad,indeed. JMO
 
So since he's confessing , let's hope he waives right to attorney and trial and just accepts his punishment. That would be a tiny ' blessing ' after all of this to have no court and no greater emotional or financial expense for the state and the victims' families.
 
SCHMAE said:
So since he's confessing , let's hope he waives right to attorney and trial and just accepts his punishment. That would be a tiny ' blessing ' after all of this to have no court and no greater emotional or financial expense for the state and the victims' families.
Click to expand...

I imagine that his defense will be for the purpose of protecting him from receiving the Death Penalty. Do you know if in SC the DP can only be decided by a jury or if a judge can decide that independently? If only a jury decides, then he would be well advised to waive a jury trial. Dunno. Do we have a lawyer here? JMO
 
I am confused how he was able to buy the gun himself in April if he was just arrested in February. Wasn't the February arrest for felony drug-possession charges? Did the gun store not do proper background checks or does the state allow you to purchase firearms while you are pending felony charges?
 
Herbert Fielding introduced a bill to abolish the death penalty during every legislative session he spent in the South Carolina legislature. None of the bills passed either chamber, but during his tenure (1970-1973 and 1983-1992) the bills kept the issue alive in the minds of South Carolina legislators.

Although bills are introduced during nearly every legislative period that would expand the use of the death penalty (for example, by allowing ten jurors to impose the death penalty instead of twelve), so far those bills have been rejected.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/south-carolina-1

..........................................

ARTICLE 5

Fitness to Stand Trial

http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t44c023.php
 
slashkiss said:
I am confused how he was able to buy the gun himself in April if he was just arrested in February. Wasn't the February arrest for felony drug-possession charges? Did the gun store not do proper background checks or does the state allow you to purchase firearms while you are pending felony charges?
Click to expand...

It must be only after a ' conviction' on felony charges? ** speculative**
 
cady said:
There is just no acceptable rationale for an irrational act. Human potential is a wild card. If it hadn't been this kid and this crime, it would have been another person and another equally horrific crime. I don't personally hate the perpetrator; but I do hate the subculture that nourished his world view, and continues to thrive in American society. There is no quick fix, but there are measures that can be taken constitutionally, for the purpose of " insuring domestic tranquility" and "promoting the general welfare" that could take a bite out of these rampant painful incidents.
But, as always, NOW is said to be not the time for the American people to address these issues. We are just supposed to grieve and then move on. Very sad,indeed. JMO
Click to expand...

BBM-

Respectfully, I tend to come from the opposite view, in that I do think there is a time to grieve, and then deal with the deeper and lingering issues later. I'm sorry you feel that is sad.
Yet, I think I understand that your view is that we will grieve, forget the larger issues and move on...and nothing changes. If I misunderstand that, you can correct me on that. If it were my family member that was just gunned down in such a horrific manner, the last thing I would want is political speech and sides being taken, while I'd be dealing with planning funeral services, attending to other family members and real life realities of a sudden loss of a loved one. Maybe that's just me.

I do hope some good will come later of this, as this is a stark reminder that we all have more in common than not in common, and good people are in every community. My hope is there will be dialogue and a greater sensitivity to what a waste it is to fight over race, etc. When sides are taken as we continue down the road, maybe we need to put up poster size pictures of the church services held last night, showing a community coming together over just plain evil. Remind us of how we (collectively) feel right now.

I totally agree with your beginning statement, that there is just no acceptable rationale for an irrational act.
 
slashkiss said:
I am confused how he was able to buy the gun himself in April if he was just arrested in February. Wasn't the February arrest for felony drug-possession charges? Did the gun store not do proper background checks or does the state allow you to purchase firearms while you are pending felony charges?
Click to expand...

Part of the problem with gun control laws is that the bad guys can always find a way to get a gun if they want one badly enough. I would be willing to bet that 99% of the criminals in the US didn't acquire guns by a legal means.
 
Anderson Cooper 360° ‏@AC360 3m3 minutes ago

#Charleston’s Mayor shares his grief with @andersoncooper: http://cnn.it/1Tzo7RO
 
Just sad that there is NEVER a NOW. Of course it's a time of grief, especially for the families and friends, and Charlestonians......but nationally, it just seems that we are always in grief to the extent that we simply accept that grieving is our way of life and not investigating the source of it. In no way did I intend to diminish the very real GRIEF in Charleston. JMO
 
I hope I am not breaking TOS, I am just attempting to clear up an issue. He was able to buy a gun because his case had not been adjudicated yet. In addition, the law is really kind of joke. Its beleive it or not, as it relates to "mental" it is "voluntary"! LE may elect to enter data into the system if they feel like it........ what agency is gonna volunteer to spend money on data entry?


  • Has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
  • Is under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
  • Is a fugitive from justice;
  • Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance;
  • Has been adjudicated as a mental defective or committed to a mental institution;
  • Is illegally or unlawfully in the United States;
  • Has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
  • Having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced U.S. citizenship;
  • Is subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner;
  • Has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.[SUP][7][/SUP]


Being "charged" means nothing...................

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Instant_Criminal_Background_Check_System

other government agencies can submit information on a voluntary basis regarding individuals who should be denied firearms for noncriminal reasons, including adjudication as mentally ill or commitment to a mental institution.[SUP]10,11[/SUP]

http://www.jaapl.org/content/35/3/330.full
 
Just seems like a temporary hold on buying firearms after being charged with any kind of felony would be a logical thing and if cleared of charges the hold would be released.

/shrug ... if only laws were actually logical!
 
Elley Mae said:
Herbert Fielding introduced a bill to abolish the death penalty during every legislative session he spent in the South Carolina legislature. None of the bills passed either chamber, but during his tenure (1970-1973 and 1983-1992) the bills kept the issue alive in the minds of South Carolina legislators.

Although bills are introduced during nearly every legislative period that would expand the use of the death penalty (for example, by allowing ten jurors to impose the death penalty instead of twelve), so far those bills have been rejected.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/south-carolina-1

..........................................

ARTICLE 5

Fitness to Stand Trial

http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t44c023.php
Click to expand...

The problem I have with the death penalty is that it doesn't accomplish one damn thing. Killing him will do nothing to bring those people back. I find the entire American system of giving easy access to firearms to mentally ill people so they can carry out mass murder, so then the government can execute them for the crime to be disgusting and uncivilized. It's just one big cycle of death. Anybody who thinks that any part of that is good, has just no respect for human life.
 
Just heard on CNN that Roof's sister was to be married on Saturday. Naturally, the wedding has been postponed.
 
KaaBoom said:
I believe that the state murder charges would be primary. The federal charges would be filed later, if necessary.
Click to expand...

Well, I know very little about crime and punishment but occasionally I have common sense and it seems to me it would be easier and more cost efficient to tack on hate crime at the time of these charges than to go through another process at a later time at another location. For example ' 9 murder charges while in commission of a hate crime'', which would automatically elevate the charges to more time than regular murder charges. It just seems wasteful of resources and time to go through it at a later date. If the charge for murder in SC is X amount of years , then add on another X amount of years or DP automatically or WOP or something.
 
faw720 said:
Part of the problem with gun control laws is that the bad guys can always find a way to get a gun if they want one badly enough. I would be willing to bet that 99% of the criminals in the US didn't acquire guns by a legal means.
Click to expand...

You would be wrong. Most of them buy their guns legally. Either they buy the gun legally themselves, or they have somebody else buy it for them.
 
KaaBoom said:
The problem I have with the death penalty is that it doesn't accomplish one damn thing. Killing him will do nothing to bring those people back. I find the entire American system of giving easy access to firearms to mentally ill people so they can carry out mass murder, so then the government can execute them for the crime to be disgusting and uncivilized. It's just one big cycle of death. Anybody who thinks that any part of that is good, has just no respect for human life.
Click to expand...

For crimes such as that committed by Roof, I much prefer the death penalty, rather than have him sit in prison and be able to receive benefits that many not in prison do not receive. Putting him to death in a swift manner is cost efficient. And, I do have respect for human life, just not his at this time.
 
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