SC - Paul Murdaugh, 22 and mom Margaret, 52, found shot to death, Islandton, 7 June 2021 #13

[sunshineray]

If she and Paul arrived at Moselle around 7:00 PM and were murdered shortly after their arrival, why did the coroner estimate TOD between 9:00-9:30 PM?

Good question. FitsNews is reporting MM arriving at Moselle between 7-7:30. If her vehicle was running when LE got there did she maybe stop and get gas before arriving? What kind of vehicle did she have, a real gas guzzler or something more economic. How long would those kinds of vehicles be able to idle on a full tank of gas?

LE knows from their phones when MM texted with her friend before arriving and when PM communicated with the dog owner while there.

It is weird that if LE got there and her car was running why FitsNews is reporting MM got there 2 hrs before the time of death coroner says.

Possibly she talking to someone on a built in car phone, like an Onstar thing, turned it on while making a call when Alex arrived?

There are so many questions about timeline to be revealed. I'm sure LE has all the particulars figured out.

 

[Megnut]

I’ve been following this case since day 1. It was reported that Maggie was on the phone w a vet at the time about the dog in the kennel. I believe it was a neighbor‘s dog that was being kenneled there due to an injury. She heard a gunshot While on the phone, and supposedly the vet corroborated this. This was discussed early in the Websleuths pages here.

Also, I recall that GS had been in an auto accident shortly before her “fall” at the house. I don’t know where this info got buried, but it was reported. On the day of her fall, she was there to pick up a paycheck.
My thoughts go to someone in the household covering up an attempted murder and subsequent insurance fraud. https://www.fitsnews.com/2022/05/18...etails-revealed-in-gloria-satterfields-death/

Also buried in the early WS pages is that AM represented and stole $$$ from a family whose son’s ventilator oxygen was turned off while in the hospital. I do not recall the outcome of the settlement, just speculation about another mysterious death that occurred.https://www.fitsnews.com/2022/01/07/murdaugh-fleming-and-bank-stole-from-quadriplegic-deaf-man-in-2011-scheme-attorney-says/

Got to wonder about that car accident too. Maybe GS's "fall" wasn't her first brush with AM-assisted death.

JMO

 

[Missing Susan]

<modsnip>

Also, I recall that GS had been in an auto accident shortly before her “fall” at the house. I don’t know where this info got buried, but it was reported. On the day of her fall, she was there to pick up a paycheck.
My thoughts go to someone in the household covering up an attempted murder and subsequent insurance fraud. https://www.fitsnews.com/2022/05/18...etails-revealed-in-gloria-satterfields-death/

Also buried in the early WS pages is that AM represented and stole $$$ from a family whose son’s ventilator oxygen was turned off while in the hospital. I do not recall the outcome of the settlement, just speculation about another mysterious death that occurred.https://www.fitsnews.com/2022/01/07/murdaugh-fleming-and-bank-stole-from-quadriplegic-deaf-man-in-2011-scheme-attorney-says/

A bunch of tidbits were posted then deleted because fitsnews was pressonna non grata. Might need to rehash fitsnews coverage from day one now that its allowed. Most people burned through the 5 free articles from fitnews long ago and never got the chance to look back on day one reports.

Has it been confirmed how many shells the shotgun was loaded with or capable of holding? If it only held 2, I think that the shotgun would have had to been used first unless the victims were not killed at the same time or there was more than one shooter.

 

[Elley Mae]

A bunch of tidbits were posted then deleted because fitsnews was pressonna non grata. Might need to rehash fitsnews coverage from day one now that its allowed. Most people burned through the 5 free articles from fitnews long ago and never got the chance to look back on day one reports.

Has it been confirmed how many shells the shotgun was loaded with or capable of holding? If it only held 2, I think that the shotgun would have had to been used first unless the victims were not killed at the same time or there was more than one shooter.

If I’m not mistaken the weapons have nit been found. Weapons removed from property were not the weapons used in the murders evidently otherwise he would have been arrested months ago.

Jmo

 

[sunshineray]

If I’m not mistaken the weapons have nit been found. Weapons removed from property were not the weapons used in the murders evidently otherwise he would have been arrested months ago.

Jmo

I believe SLED said the shotgun was recovered on scene but not the rifle...IIRC

 

[Elley Mae]

I believe SLED said the shotgun was recovered on scene but not the rifle...IIRC

I have not seen that.

 

[Ann99]

MO and Speculation
I have a few random thoughts/questions about the various times mentioned - when MM arrived ( car left running) when AM arrived at various places, and when time of death was estimated.
If we assume MM and Paul arrived together, ( either in the same vehicle or separate vehicles ) there should be GPS or phone ping info that gives an approx location and time. Or, am I assuming too much? Paul’s phone should have some information to assist in this question. MM phone too.
I also assume MM drove a high end luxury vehicle ( since AM had a luxury vehicle) and there may be info in those vehicles that can be retrieved to show location, maybe even how long the vehicle was idling in a stationary position.
Again, maybe I assume too much.
If the deaths were actually closer in time to 7pm - 7:30 that would have given AM lots of time to drive to a remote location and dispose of the weapon, or any other items. Maybe GPS info on AM phone or vehicle can show this if it happened.
What about the condition of the bodies when found.
Would blood have been coagulating or slightly dried if 2 or 3 hours had passed. The bodies surely gave up some clues about the time frame.
If Paul was videoing, surely the video would show a somewhat daylight scene close to 7 -7:30pm. The reverse, at 9:30-10m. Meta data ( I don’t understand it but LE should) could even show exact time of video.
Did Paul have the chance to actually send the video to his friend and dog owner.
Alex suicide stunt was a good way for LE to get possession of his vehicle and all info that it could provide.
Otherwise, it may have not been discovered quickly.
MO
This article gives a time frame that is based entirely upon AM initial 911 call.

Investigators release timeline of events in Murdaugh murder case

Investigators with the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division have released a timeline of events in the murders of Margaret Murdaugh and her son Paul Murdaugh at a property in Colleton County.

www.live5news.com

 

[Ann99]

Good question. FitsNews is reporting MM arriving at Moselle between 7-7:30. If her vehicle was running when LE got there did she maybe stop and get gas before arriving? What kind of vehicle did she have, a real gas guzzler or something more economic. How long would those kinds of vehicles be able to idle on a full tank of gas?

LE knows from their phones when MM texted with her friend before arriving and when PM communicated with the dog owner while there.

It is weird that if LE got there and her car was running why FitsNews is reporting MM got there 2 hrs before the time of death coroner says.

Possibly she talking to someone on a built in car phone, like an Onstar thing, turned it on while making a call when Alex arrived?

There are so many questions about timeline to be revealed. I'm sure LE has all the particulars figured out.

I just saw this post and I see we have similar thoughts. The vehicles and phones should be able to reveal more to,LE than what they previously just suspected.

 

[Countem]

I believe SLED said the shotgun was recovered on scene but not the rifle...IIRC

From everything that I can see, LE has not yet revealed whether either murder weapon has been recovered. However, police did seize firearms from the murder scene during the investigation. (That was to be expected, as the scene of the murders was a hunting lodge.)

https://www.islandpacket.com/news/local/crime/article252778263.html

 

[Elley Mae]

I just saw this post and I see we have similar thoughts. The vehicles and phones should be able to reveal more to,LE than what they previously just suspected.

Iirc the vehicle AM was in when shot was MM’s, Mercedes?
AM’s was company and I think PM’s was company, law firm.
Jmo

 

[Countem]

This is news to me! How bizarre! Will they argue that the mysterious threats were coming from AM himself to throw away suspicion? If so, that will definitively show premeditation.

ETA: I suppose the threats could have been related to the boat crash incident and from third parties completely unrelated to PM’s later murder.

BBM.

On June 17, AM’s brothers, JMM and RM IV, appeared in a pre-recorded interview on ABC’s “Good Morning America,” saying Paul received threats from strangers leading up to his murder, but that the family didn’t believe the threats were valid.

https://www.islandpacket.com/news/local/crime/article259767145.html

 

[Elley Mae]

I hope the coroner didn’t go off of what AM said about time he was there and time he returned. Can’t exhume MM PM bodies, they were cremated.

Jmo

 

[Ann99]

Iirc the vehicle AM was in when shot was MM’s, Mercedes?
AM’s was company and I think PM’s was company, law firm.
Jmo

TY!
We already know genius Alex did not know the capabilities of a Mercedes. Proof, his claim of changing a flat tire.
Lol, I doubt the law firm gave out cheap, old vehicles, so probably some info could be provided by Paul’s vehicle too.
LE may have been unable to get immediate response from Mercedes on both vehicles, or if they had that info quickly, held it back from the public. I think Paul’s video will be a major piece of indisputable evidence.

 

[clearskies1]

MO and Speculation
I have a few random thoughts/questions about the various times mentioned - when MM arrived ( car left running) when AM arrived at various places, and when time of death was estimated.
If we assume MM and Paul arrived together, ( either in the same vehicle or separate vehicles ) there should be GPS or phone ping info that gives an approx location and time. Or, am I assuming too much? Paul’s phone should have some information to assist in this question. MM phone too.
I also assume MM drove a high end luxury vehicle ( since AM had a luxury vehicle) and there may be info in those vehicles that can be retrieved to show location, maybe even how long the vehicle was idling in a stationary position.
Again, maybe I assume too much.
If the deaths were actually closer in time to 7pm - 7:30 that would have given AM lots of time to drive to a remote location and dispose of the weapon, or any other items. Maybe GPS info on AM phone or vehicle can show this if it happened.
What about the condition of the bodies when found.
Would blood have been coagulating or slightly dried if 2 or 3 hours had passed. The bodies surely gave up some clues about the time frame.
If Paul was videoing, surely the video would show a somewhat daylight scene close to 7 -7:30pm. The reverse, at 9:30-10m. Meta data ( I don’t understand it but LE should) could even show exact time of video.
Did Paul have the chance to actually send the video to his friend and dog owner.
Alex suicide stunt was a good way for LE to get possession of his vehicle and all info that it could provide.
Otherwise, it may have not been discovered quickly.
MO
This article gives a time frame that is based entirely upon AM initial 911 call.

Investigators release timeline of events in Murdaugh murder case

Investigators with the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division have released a timeline of events in the murders of Margaret Murdaugh and her son Paul Murdaugh at a property in Colleton County.

www.live5news.com

Per this article, the coroner said that the time of death for both MM and PM was between 9 and 9:30 pm. Coroner: Mother, son shot multiple times

 

[Luna20]

post # 165 by Elley Mae page 9 of this thread.

SLED releases 911 call on fatal Gloria Satterfield fall at the Murdaugh residence

The death would eventually lead to a criminal investigation of Alex Murdaugh, who allegedly stole insurance settlement funds from her heirs.

www.greenvilleonline.com

Thank you Raisin for finding and posting this. I left the thread for a good while because I was so frustrated with the pace and not addressing the murders.

 

[Elley Mae]

Attorney Eric Bland addressing the most recent developments in the case against Alex Murdaugh.

“This murder case is going to be a circumstantial case. The two witnesses are dead, Maggie and Paul are dead. Dick Harpootlian is a wonderful lawyer, it’s going to be a battle of the experts, The state’s going to have tremendous forensics experts.”

And for his own clients, the Satterfield family, days like Thursday are particularly difficult.

“They relive everything every day. Every time there’s a new news cycle.”

SLED reopened the death investigation of Gloria Satterfield last fall. and made the decision to exhume her body for an autopsy last month.

“Within the next couple of months, her body is going to be exhumed. SLED is going to work with us to make sure it’s a respectful process, you know, it’s a highly emotional thing for the family.”

However, Bland maintains they don’t believe Alex had anything to do with Gloria’s death.

Satterfield family lawyer addresses Alex Murdaugh murder indictments

Gloria Satterfield’s family attorney Eric Bland says these indictments don’t come as a surprise but are still a shock as it’s such a big decision in the case against Murdaugh.

www.live5news.com

 

[Ann99]

Per this article, the coroner said that the time of death for both MM and PM was between 9 and 9:30 pm. Coroner: Mother, son shot multiple times

Should we trust the coroner?
I don’t.
No disrespect to this Coroner, but I believe the coroner basically used info from AM. A closer look by another examiner may have found something different. At that point in time, I believe almost everyone involved in the death scene was taking Alex’s word as truth.

Here are phrases from the article that indicate the Murdaugh influence or power in the area.

A mother and son from one of South Carolina’s prominent legal families were shot multiple times before they died, a county coroner said Monday.
The Murdaughs are one of South Carolina’s most prominent legal families.

 

[stmarysmead]

i have often wondered what the dying Father might have said to AM that day or around that time. Legacy mattered to that family. . He might have been ignorant of AM’s illegal activity but PM and the subsequent trials certainly were very public threats to the reputation and status of the family.

All those sons seemed to dote on their Father. IMO even as adults…they craved his approval. Now as RM lay dying was he telling AM that he was a terrible disappointment, his son was destroying the generational legacy…his wife, if divorcing, would drive in another nail with disclosures. His other son had already been kicked out of law school…and one where they had a lot of influence.

Did RM feelat that end of his life that AM and family were destroying everything generations of the family had built and protected? Was he expressing his severe disappointment, frustration on AM that he had to handle this…do something!

What could AM do…to make all this mess go away…to stop the legal incursions into his messy finances, to stop talk about how he and his Dad inserted themselves the night of the boating accident?

What could he do? The only solution was…to do what he allegedlydid.

Those last conversations with a loved one are intense beyond description. I just have always wondered about how, if they happened, that might have factored into AM’s decision to do what he did.

 

[Kudzuu]

I defer to hubby on all things gun related but when I asked him, he said we own both a shotgun and an AR 15. (I love that we part he threw in since I didn't know about them but then again, I have no idea what guns he buys. I don't ask and he don't tell. I see a charge coming through from a gun shop and I ignore it. 52 years of marriage for you lol.)

He said the shotgun is 12 gauge and completely black, stock, barrel and everything else and he said he has a black strap on it so it can be worn over his shoulder, behind his back. Ditto for the AR 15, all black, strap and worn over his shoulder behind his back. I don't know if black is the standard color or he prefers that color because he is retired LE.

So do you think it would be possible that AM had a gun on each shoulder and hidden behind his back, given that he is a very large man, 6'3 275lbs? (I think the booking said that, someone correct me if I am wrong). If he was wearing a black T-shirt the straps would blend in right?

Given TOD was 9 pm to 9:30 pm it was pretty much dark. (have you seen those thick evergreens in the pictures at Moselle? They are close to the road and pictures of the kennels shows it was situated in the tree line with huge trees around and limbs hanging out over it making for a very dark place.) There is another entrance that leads directly to the kennel area. We don't know yet if MM parked at the house or at the kennel area. Depending on lighting if she pulled up at the kennel area and AM was walking toward her, in your opinion do you think she would have seen the guns slung over each shoulder assuming they were both black with black straps like hubby's?

Am I on course or not?

I personally think he lured her out there to talk her into dropping the forensic audit of their personal finances, given that his house of dirty dealings would have come tumbling down after that audit report came out. When she said no he pulled the shotgun. I really do think the shotgun was meant for her and he had no idea PM was there in the kennel. But I think MM did because I think she asked PM to meet her there for protection from AM.

JMO

It all seems plausible. For some reason I thought AM had on a white shirt. But that could be my mind playing tricks because of the bloody mist that was found on his shirt. IIRC he needed to be like within 3 feet of her with the AR 15. My opinion.

 

[Luna20]

That’s strange for Bland to make the statement about AM not having anything to do with Gloria’s case. No good reason for him to opine on it and whether it was directly or indirectly it doesn’t matter. We know AM is definitely involved with the family’s settlement so why would Bland give him the benefit of the doubt on anything else?

Attorney Eric Bland addressing the most recent developments in the case against Alex Murdaugh.

“This murder case is going to be a circumstantial case. The two witnesses are dead, Maggie and Paul are dead. Dick Harpootlian is a wonderful lawyer, it’s going to be a battle of the experts, The state’s going to have tremendous forensics experts.”

And for his own clients, the Satterfield family, days like Thursday are particularly difficult.

“They relive everything every day. Every time there’s a new news cycle.”

SLED reopened the death investigation of Gloria Satterfield last fall. and made the decision to exhume her body for an autopsy last month.

“Within the next couple of months, her body is going to be exhumed. SLED is going to work with us to make sure it’s a respectful process, you know, it’s a highly emotional thing for the family.”

However, Bland maintains they don’t believe Alex had anything to do with Gloria’s death.

Satterfield family lawyer addresses Alex Murdaugh murder indictments

Gloria Satterfield’s family attorney Eric Bland says these indictments don’t come as a surprise but are still a shock as it’s such a big decision in the case against Murdaugh.

www.live5news.com