SC - Paul Murdaugh & mom Margaret Found Shot To Death - Alex Murdaugh Accused - Islandton #25

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LaborDayRN said:
Is the jury allowed to ask for copies of reports that were presented & discussed during the trial? I seem to recall that from the Mark Redwine case.
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Wish I knew. It might depend on whether the reports are considered evidence or exhibits. I know evidence is allowed in jury room, but uncertain about exhibits.
 
I've been taking a close look at the official timeline, with a focus on 2 areas that the defense will try to argue, specifically time to commit the murder and timing around finding the bodies and calling 911.

I believe that AM had time to commit the murders before leaving for Almeda and I believe that his description of coming across that bodies and calling 911 is not believable.
Let me know if you see any flaws in my thinking below.

Timing:

  • 19 seconds to arrive at scene and then call 911 per OnStar: Defense has said that 20 seconds is a long time…plenty of time. My fastest estimate is 30 seconds - see below - and that doesn't include actually taking a pulse, just looking for where to take a pulse.
    • park and get out of car - 2 sec
    • run to PM, glancing over at MM - 6 sec
    • check PM (take in scene and consider taking pulse; try to turn him over; try to take pulse; phone pops out; pick up phone and try to 'do something' with it; put phone back down on Paul; take one last look) - 9 sec
    • Run over to MM - 4 sec
    • Check MM (take in immediate scene; check for pulse) 7 sec
    • Get phone out and dial 911 - 2 sec (presuming not left in car)
    • Total fastest time: 30 seconds
    • My Conclusion: AM could not have stumbled across the bodies and do everything he said he did before calling 911. It implies that he saw the dead bodies prior to this, because he had killed them.


  1. In contrast to the "20 seconds is a long time" opinion by defense, defense says time for AM to have committed the murders and departing for Almeda was too short a time. My presumed available time is 15 minutes(i.e. between 9:51 and 9:06). My quickest estimate for shooting/cleaning up/leaving is:
    • Shoot Paul twice, including waiting for him to stumble forward (10 sec)
    • Pick up 2nd weapon and chase MM (10 seconds)
    • Shoot MM 5 times in fairly quick succession, allowing for MM to stumble (10 seconds)
    • Put weapons down; walk to hose; quick rinse off of legs, feet, hands, arms; hang hose up (60 seconds)
    • Wrap up guns in raincoat; put shoes, shirt, pants in cooler; put things in vehicle (ATV? Golf cart?) ( 60 seconds)
    • Fiddle with Maggie's phone (30 seconds)
    • Drive to house (ATV/cart) and transfer raincoat/cooler to SUV (60 seconds)
    • Go in house and do quick shower. Put on t-shirt/shorts. (4 min.)
    • Phone Maggie. (18 sec) - walking downstairs
    • Call Randy (18 sec) - walking outside
    • Go to SUV and start up. (15 sec)
    • Total quickest time: 9 minutes
    • My Conclusion: AM had enough time to clean up and head to Almeda
 
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Yes the 20 second time to call 911 is not the least believable, any human would be too shocked taking in that scene to react that fast, even Alex. Even if they didn't take time to check the bodies it would take longer than that.
 
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kaen said:
Gotta wonder if the pill stash that has been described were more than enough for personal use. Maybe he was not dealing but, more so, that for large quantities he held onto the drugs for the local dealer. This man was clearly well connected to LE and the system. The chances of his car, person, home ever being raided seemed slim to none. To have him be a known drug user to local dealers and not have his name ever come up in someone's plea negotiations seems odd especially given the "oxy" issues throughout the early teens to the twenties. I guess it is possible that he had a 50k/week habit but that amount given his job was not necessarily ruinous and was probably sustainable until the liability for the death in the boating accident put him and the family in the financial crosshairs. No evidence of him hiding money so was the habit cost inclusive of hush monies to make sure his world didn't collapse.

On another note at the trial yesterday the defense brought up the idea that AM will most likely spend the rest of his life in jail for financial crimes. Do we think that was brought up as a way to signal to the jury that if they don't feel like there is enough to convict, he will still have consequences so they could acquit with a clear conscience?

This killer (still alleged) got great preferential treatment throughout his spree. It is remarkable to me that it took so long to bring him into a room....maybe part of a plan to keep him talking but still doesn't seem like all suspected criminals get this light touch interactions with LE.
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I caught that little offering from the defense about the time AM will serve for financial crimes and thought the exact same think you suggest. They want the jury to think don’t worry if you find him not guilty, he’s still going to jail for a long time.
Another indication of desperation in my opinion.
 
Katrinepa said:
Notice his sister sitting behind him and nodding at Harpo talking. She still thinks AM is not guilty. In denial Big time!
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I may not necessary like the Murdaugh family and the way they behave, but I do have some sympathy for their predicament. Cognitive dissonance a hell of a thing. When we hear facts that contradict what we want to believe, our first instinct is to reject them as untrue. And we're all guilty of this, no one is a truly rational being.

It can take a person some time to process and accept new information that contradicts their beliefs. And some people will never accept the truth regardless of what proof is out there.
 
Snoopster said:
I've been taking a close look at the official timeline, with a focus on 2 areas that the defense will try to argue, specifically time to commit the murder and timing around finding the bodies and calling 911.

I believe that AM had time to commit the murders before leaving for Almeda and I believe that his description of coming across that bodies and calling 911 is not believable.
Let me know if you see any flaws in my thinking below.

Timing:

  • 19 seconds to arrive at scene and then call 911 per OnStar: Defense has said that 20 seconds is a long time…plenty of time. My fastest estimate is 30 seconds - see below - and that doesn't include actually taking a pulse, just looking for where to take a pulse.
    • park and get out of car - 2 sec
    • run to PM, glancing over at MM - 6 sec
    • check PM (take in scene and consider taking pulse; try to turn him over; try to take pulse; phone pops out; pick up phone and try to 'do something' with it; put phone back down on Paul; take one last look) - 9 sec
    • Run over to MM - 4 sec
    • Check MM (take in immediate scene; check for pulse) 7 sec
    • Get phone out and dial 911 - 2 sec (presuming not left in car)
    • Total fastest time: 30 seconds
    • My Conclusion: AM could not have stumbled across the bodies and do everything he said he did before calling 911. It implies that he saw the dead bodies prior to this, because he had killed them.


  1. In contrast to the "20 seconds is a long time" opinion by defense, defense says time for AM to have committed the murders and departing for Almeda was too short a time. [My presumed available time is 15 minutes (i.e. between 9:51 and 9:06). My quickest estimate for shooting/cleaning up/leaving is:
    • Shoot Paul twice, including waiting for him to stumble forward (10 sec)
    • Pick up 2nd weapon and chase MM (10 seconds)
    • Shoot MM 5 times in fairly quick succession, allowing for MM to stumble (10 seconds)
    • Put weapons down; walk to hose; quick rinse off of legs, feet, hands, arms; hang hose up (60 seconds)
    • Wrap up guns in raincoat; put shoes, shirt, pants in cooler; put things in vehicle (ATV? Golf cart?) ( 60 seconds)
    • Fiddle with Maggie's phone (30 seconds)
    • Drive to house (ATV/cart) and transfer raincoat/cooler to SUV (60 seconds)
    • Go in house and do quick shower. Put on t-shirt/shorts. (4 min.)
    • Phone Maggie. (18 sec) - walking downstairs
    • Call Randy (18 sec) - walking outside
    • Go to SUV and start up. (15 sec)
    • Total quickest time: 9 minutes
    • My Conclusion: AM had enough time to clean up and head to Almeda

Click to expand...

Agreed.

What makes no sense in the taking the pulse claim is that it was clear to all who testified that his son's brain matter was not connected to his body? Why claim you took his pulse? Or, claim you took MM's pulse, except if either were still alive, he would have to wait to call 911. I think it is only because he was trying to get a hold of the phones and make sure the scene was as clean as he could make it. Or, alternately, he could make the scene contaminated as possible by touching everything he could find while saying he was trying to help PM and MM. I think he tried to open both phones and used the popped out to explain his prints on PM's phone if it was tested for prints--good way to contaminate the evidence by saying he touched it. Can't imagine that PM's phone popped out. He probably was able to see it had little to no battery so maybe he thought he was in the clear for the data or thought no one would be able to get into it. He knew that he and Maggie had longer history info between the two of them, any texts to her family, banking info, etc on her phone. Her phone was critical to get off that scene.

If the reason for the killing was the boating accident, a perp would want PM's phone before they would want MM's phone. PM's phone might have incriminating information or have conversations between whoever wanted to hurt PM and themselves. Taking her phone made no sense at all except if it about issues that relate to AM.

I think he had the murder planned. He had both guns on his person or near his person. Each of them were shot with a gun he chose for them, IMHO.

I do think he had time to kill them because he made the time/plan work-- guns at the ready, being on the scene with the two at the kennels meant he knew where they were and what they were doing, the explanation that guns were left everywhere as an indicator that an unknown person would be able do the killing (but it didn't account for PM or MM being able to shoot someone in self-defense if there were truly guns left haphazardly on the property).

It bugs me that he thought he was so smart that he could get away with it. Even with the phony attempt on his life--- either it was never meant to kill him (so then it would call all of the LE off of him for the family murder with another careless Murdaugh gun in someone else's hands) or he chickened out and moved so that he would not die from the scripted scene he devised.
 
Warwick7 said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1626963097289211906
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Glad you posted this @Warwick7. Was wondering last night -- now that we have heard so much, what was it that they came across in those early days that caused SLED to open an investigation into SS's death (murder). Something they found in PM's bedroom? His apartment? Something on a computer? Something on a family member phone? Moo.

I heard nothing stated so far but hope they have some folks at SLED working on this concurrent with the Murdaugh murders so Stephen gets justice. Moo.
 
I am very confused about the cooler though. Was there any more testimony about it besides from Owen, because I didn't understand what they meant.

This is cued up to where he talks about it.

www.youtube.com

WATCH LIVE: Murdaugh Family Murders — SC v. Alex Murdaugh — Day 16

A small town in South Carolina prepares for the highest-profile murder trial seen in decades. Once-renowned in the area, disgraced attorney Alex Murdaugh fac...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com

So CB Rowe says there was a cooler there on Tuesday that was not there on the Friday before when he was there. And Owen also says he saw the cooler there. Are they saying that Alex may have put something in the cooler and then left it at the scene? That doesn't make sense to me.

Was anything else said about it besides that little bit from Owen?
 
ch_13 said:
I may not necessary like the Murdaugh family and the way they behave, but I do have some sympathy for their predicament. Cognitive dissonance a hell of a thing. When we hear facts that contradict what we want to believe, our first instinct is to reject them as untrue. And we're all guilty of this, no one is a truly rational being.

It can take a person some time to process and accept new information that contradicts their beliefs. And some people will never accept the truth regardless of what proof is out there.
Click to expand...
You're right and there are many murder cases where, for instance, adult children of the accused vehemently deny their parent's involvement, even long after the convictions and the parent's incarceration.

It is very difficult to reconcile 20 years or more of parent-child interaction, bonding, and complete trust with the monstrous things some of these parents have done to other members of the immediate family. For some, I would think that even witnessing their parent conducting the act on video might induce some kind of disassociation ("I can see him do it" "He couldn't possibly do it" - believing something true and untrue at the same time) in the adult child rather than acceptance of what their eyes are seeing. Acceptance would mean unacceptable loss.
 
Between 7:44pm and 10pm - TOD 9pm

Alex was the only person at the kennels before Paul and Maggie were shot.
Alex was the only person who found his family dead at the kennels at 10pm.

There is not time or a place for a stranger to enter the Kennel Killing TimeLine.

I think Alex had this fantasy manifesting in his frazzled mind for months or longer. He had problems that required solutions of a violent nature. He would be ready. mhoo

Feb. 24, 2019 PM drove AM's boat that crashed into a concrete pillar killing MalloryBeach.

June 8, 2021 Paul and Maggie are dead.


Perhaps AM wanted to blame the shootings on another person from the wreck.

... Adding that hopes are for a well-blessed life to Anthony

https://twitter.com/x/status/1626339046099124224
 
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