SC - Paul Murdaugh & mom Margaret Found Shot To Death - Alex Murdaugh Accused - Islandton #25

[makayla]

And starts off his answers with other topics like Paul's blood pressure, re-asks about how he should list his firearms about four or five times and then never does it, his mother's dementia -- all kinds of "let's change the subject"

Every time I hear “you know” it is like nails on a chalkboard - drives me crazy, especially because he doesn’t have a smooth, pleasant sounding voice to begin with.

 

[Megnut]

I wonder--since it says she looked after his mom only "sometimes"--was he calling her to see who was going to be working at his mom's that night? Trying to plan in advance and seeing who he was going to have to manipulate into supporting his alibi?

The second caregiver testified that she worked a shift for someone else... we know the other caregiver was there that night. I can't help but to wonder if Alec was counting on the caregiver who was hard of hearing. Just more people that Alec thought he could use for his own purposes.

JMO

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

Instead, he went directly to Paul (MOO), did something with Paul's phone and then had to wash blood off his hands and shoes. Damp shoes. Clean hands.

Someone said his shoes were wet? I missed that.

 

[Megnut]

Someone said his shoes were wet? I missed that.

The officer who collected his clothing reported that, but equated it with dew and humidity, as I recall.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

I remember Waters not being specific about motive in his Opening. I think he described it as a storm that hit on June 7. Given the many issues — drugs, debt, theft, the boat case — that seems like a smart way to frame it. JMO

Yes because in his wildest dreams he never thought AM's lawyers, en masse, would open ALL the doors and windows to other criminal activities!

 

[ch_13]

When the defense suggested that Alex was going to spend most of his life in prison anyway…my first thought was that if he goes free on murder charges, his attorneys will make deals on the theft charges. He will never go to prison. So I disagree with all the talking heads. JMO.

If you're rich and powerful, you can sometimes get away with a lot. Connections can get you a suspended sentence or community service instead of jail time. But those sort of shenanigans generally happen in the dark, when there's no publicity or news coverage.

This case is national news, covered by every major media outlet. Anything that even hints at a fix would have people in South Carolina and around the country up in arms. Plus the government have him dead-to-rights on the financial stuff, even AM doesn't deny he committed the crimes. With the number of innocent people he hurt they have to throw the book at him. If any DA or judge let him walk on those, I doubt they would survive the fallout.

It's interesting to me that whenever I follow a trial, there's always a few people posting how the defendant will never get convicted or they'll flee the country or the trial will be overturned or whatever. Maybe there's something cathartic about being pessimistic and fretting over worst-case scenarios, no matter how unlikely?

 

[sunshineray]

Someone said his shoes were wet? I missed that.

Well his hands couldn't have been too clean because MM's blood was on the shotgun he had at the scene The one he went to the house to get for protection..

 

[Luna20]

What strikes me as odd about Paul's message to his father is that he tells Alex to talk to him about the pills. He doesn't tell Alex to talk to his wife about it, but to his son - almost a role reversal of parent and child. Was Paul the in-between communicator for his parents?

This also leads me to think he wasn’t taking the pills. Why would Maggie search for a certain pill? If he had been taking them it seems she would have run in to them before. “Twenty years of popping pills” she would have come across this before and had done ample research on what he was taking.

I’m not seeing the ‘we know you are still taking pills, we saw them in your bag’ narrative. If I saw “bags” of pills and my spouse was an addict I would be concerned about OD. Unless there had been many interventions and rehab instances she had become resigned to it all?

 

[mrjitty]

I have considered that he only looked at them to verify they were dead before calling 9111.

Agreed

And perhaps to listen to verify no one was around.

 

[mrjitty]

Agreed.

What makes no sense in the taking the pulse claim is that it was clear to all who testified that his son's brain matter was not connected to his body? Why claim you took his pulse? Or, claim you took MM's pulse, except if either were still alive, he would have to wait to call 911. I think it is only because he was trying to get a hold of the phones and make sure the scene was as clean as he could make it. Or, alternately, he could make the scene contaminated as possible by touching everything he could find while saying he was trying to help PM and MM. I think he tried to open both phones and used the popped out to explain his prints on PM's phone if it was tested for prints--good way to contaminate the evidence by saying he touched it. Can't imagine that PM's phone popped out. He probably was able to see it had little to no battery so maybe he thought he was in the clear for the data or thought no one would be able to get into it. He knew that he and Maggie had longer history info between the two of them, any texts to her family, banking info, etc on her phone. Her phone was critical to get off that scene.

If the reason for the killing was the boating accident, a perp would want PM's phone before they would want MM's phone. PM's phone might have incriminating information or have conversations between whoever wanted to hurt PM and themselves. Taking her phone made no sense at all except if it about issues that relate to AM.

I think he had the murder planned. He had both guns on his person or near his person. Each of them were shot with a gun he chose for them, IMHO.

I do think he had time to kill them because he made the time/plan work-- guns at the ready, being on the scene with the two at the kennels meant he knew where they were and what they were doing, the explanation that guns were left everywhere as an indicator that an unknown person would be able do the killing (but it didn't account for PM or MM being able to shoot someone in self-defense if there were truly guns left haphazardly on the property).

It bugs me that he thought he was so smart that he could get away with it. Even with the phony attempt on his life--- either it was never meant to kill him (so then it would call all of the LE off of him for the family murder with another careless Murdaugh gun in someone else's hands) or he chickened out and moved so that he would not die from the scripted scene he devised.

I think he might have borrowed the pulse checking memory from when he shot them. He needed to verify they were dead.

It’s not uncommon for defendants to recycle real elements into their stories.

Same with his attempt to move PM. I think he looked for the phone. So then this became a real memory he could recall and put into his story.

 

[makayla]

I caught that little offering from the defense about the time AM will serve for financial crimes and thought the exact same think you suggest. They want the jury to think don’t worry if you find him not guilty, he’s still going to jail for a long time.
Another indication of desperation in my opinion.

Absolutely! That appeared so obvious to me … “He’s going to be locked up for the rest of his life for the other charges, so you don’t need to worry about convicting him for the murders”. Hopefully the jury is not buying that reason!

ETA: and yes, the defense showed more than one sign of desperation during the final hours of the prosecution’s case ….

 

[Gardenista]

Just watched Emily D Baker, Law and Lumber+, and they all complained about this trial, how both sides have played fast and loose, asking Leading questions, which are not generally allowed. Emily, a former California Prosecutor said this case should not have been brought, as there is much Info/Proof missing, and AM is already in Jail, so no rush. They also noted that it's obvious the Prosecutor was hungry to convict AM. Emily also thinks it's very possible AM knew the actual Killers, but may have not done the crime himself, so she might have charged him with complicity. They all also have doubts about the exact times of death. The podcast is Friday Night Frenzy/ Murdaugh Murder Trial-Prosecution Rests (Law and Lumber) on Youtube.
Listened, and can see some of their criticism, but You All and I have watched, gone back and forth, pointed out what WE have noticed, and I still feel he is Guilty as sin, But while one lawyer thinks Guilty verdict, the others thing perhaps Hung Jury. If I were a taxpayer in SC, I would be furious if they my tax dollars were wasted. Just MOO
Wanted to make you aware and get Your input. Stay safe, and have a Happy Presidents Day

None of them have watched the trial like we have. Emily has probably watched it the most, but she makes incorrect comments about facts of the case all of the time. As she's said numerous times, she has terrible ADHD and she routinely blurts out commentary and misses important parts of the trial.

 

[10ofRods]

This also leads me to think he wasn’t taking the pills. Why would Maggie search for a certain pill? If he had been taking them it seems she would have run in to them before. “Twenty years of popping pills” she would have come across this before and had done ample research on what he was taking.

I’m not seeing the ‘we know you are still taking pills, we saw them in your bag’ narrative. If I saw “bags” of pills and my spouse was an addict I would be concerned about OD. Unless there had been many interventions and rehab instances she had become resigned to it all?

My opinion, based on experience and pill reference guides:

Pills for the same substances come in many different colors and shapes. Over the years, different manufacturers have manufactured oxycontin (just to use one example). Looks to me like the 80 mg is usually pale green, but also comes in white, pale blue and gray (depending on manufacturer and whether time-release or not). Further, it's not clear that AM had been on that high dose for the entire period of use. "Still taking pills" means he was taking them before, but he might have abused a different opiate in the past (very common).

If I were going to confront a drug abusing spouse (which actually, I have done), I'd for sure cross my T's and dot my I's and yes, I'd look up the pills to make sure. He could have had many, many different kinds of opiate pills over the years.



That's the green and gray ones, and here are some dark gray/purple ones:



At any rate, I don't think many people go directly to 80 mg of oxycontin without working their way through many colors of pills. And percoset, vicodin, etc are often entry level opiates. It's hard for anyone but a pharmacist to keep all the pill types clear in the mind.

Source: Pill Identification Wizard from Drugs.com

 

[mrjitty]

Yeah you see this kind of take on all the TV shows talking about it too, but you can tell none of those people have followed the case that well.

And with the leading question thing, in every trial, either side will ask lots of questions that could be validly objected to, but they don't usually bother objecting unless it's on some matter that they care about. The low number of objections in this trial have been nice imo. They always just rephrase the question and it ends up the same result anyway. I bet the jury finds it tiresome to go through that game playing too much.

This is why I seldom bother with that type of coverage. The pundits tend to know much less about the case than posters in these threads.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

It's possible that MM didn't share with her sister any marital woes sparing her sister and parents any worry. But MM had visited a Charleston divorce lawyer about 6 weeks prior to her murder. I don't think things were all wine and roses.

Maggie Murdaugh Saw a Divorce Lawyer 6 Weeks Before She and Her Son Were Murdered: Source

Authorities continue to investigate the mysterious June 7 shooting deaths of Maggie and Paul Murdaugh

people.com

 

[makayla]

I've been taking a close look at the official timeline, with a focus on 2 areas that the defense will try to argue, specifically time to commit the murder and timing around finding the bodies and calling 911.

I believe that AM had time to commit the murders before leaving for Almeda and I believe that his description of coming across that bodies and calling 911 is not believable.
Let me know if you see any flaws in my thinking below.

Timing:

• 19 seconds to arrive at scene and then call 911 per OnStar: Defense has said that 20 seconds is a long time…plenty of time. My fastest estimate is 30 seconds - see below - and that doesn't include actually taking a pulse, just looking for where to take a pulse.
  
  • park and get out of car - 2 sec
  • run to PM, glancing over at MM - 6 sec
  • check PM (take in scene and consider taking pulse; try to turn him over; try to take pulse; phone pops out; pick up phone and try to 'do something' with it; put phone back down on Paul; take one last look) - 9 sec
  • Run over to MM - 4 sec
  • Check MM (take in immediate scene; check for pulse) 7 sec
  • Get phone out and dial 911 - 2 sec (presuming not left in car)
  • Total fastest time: 30 seconds
  • My Conclusion: AM could not have stumbled across the bodies and do everything he said he did before calling 911. It implies that he saw the dead bodies prior to this, because he had killed them.

1. In contrast to the "20 seconds is a long time" opinion by defense, defense says time for AM to have committed the murders and departing for Almeda was too short a time. My presumed available time is 15 minutes(i.e. between 9:51 and 9:06). My quickest estimate for shooting/cleaning up/leaving is:
   
   • Shoot Paul twice, including waiting for him to stumble forward (10 sec)
   • Pick up 2nd weapon and chase MM (10 seconds)
   • Shoot MM 5 times in fairly quick succession, allowing for MM to stumble (10 seconds)
   • Put weapons down; walk to hose; quick rinse off of legs, feet, hands, arms; hang hose up (60 seconds)
   • Wrap up guns in raincoat; put shoes, shirt, pants in cooler; put things in vehicle (ATV? Golf cart?) ( 60 seconds)
   • Fiddle with Maggie's phone (30 seconds)
   • Drive to house (ATV/cart) and transfer raincoat/cooler to SUV (60 seconds)
   • Go in house and do quick shower. Put on t-shirt/shorts. (4 min.)
   • Phone Maggie. (18 sec) - walking downstairs
   • Call Randy (18 sec) - walking outside
   • Go to SUV and start up. (15 sec)
   • Total quickest time: 9 minutes
   • My Conclusion: AM had enough time to clean up and head to Almeda

Yes, your timeline makes sense … I would love to have been a fly on the wall and watched you as you re-enacted each phase to come up with your conclusion … LOL

 

[Katrinepa]

If you're rich and powerful, you can sometimes get away with a lot. Connections can get you a suspended sentence or community service instead of jail time. But those sort of shenanigans generally happen in the dark, when there's no publicity or news coverage.

This case is national news, covered by every major media outlet. Anything that even hints at a fix would have people in South Carolina and around the country up in arms. Plus the government have him dead-to-rights on the financial stuff, even AM doesn't deny he committed the crimes. With the number of innocent people he hurt they have to throw the book at him. If any DA or judge let him walk on those, I doubt they would survive the fallout.

It's interesting to me that whenever I follow a trial, there's always a few people posting how the defendant will never get convicted or they'll flee the country or the trial will be overturned or whatever. Maybe there's something cathartic about being pessimistic and fretting over worst-case scenarios, no matter how unlikely?

Defense, as no one wants to believe he will get away with it, but afraid to believe he will end up in prison. Just being guarded IMO

 

[10ofRods]

I am having a hard time believing that a former opiate addict (AM) would have lots of pills around but never use. IMO.

If he truly was taking 80 mg oxycodone daily, he had worked his way up to that dose. He apparently entered rehab on 9/21/21:

//“Alex resigned after being accused of diverting lawyer fees from the firm,” said Murdaugh’s attorney Jim Griffin. “These allegations prompted him to confront a dependency and he voluntarily checked into an in-patient substance abuse rehab facility after being discharged from the hospital today.”//

Attorney: Alex Murdaugh battling 'dependency,' left law firm after being accused of stealing money

The prominent Lowcountry attorney who discovered the bodies of his wife and son back in June, and was taken to the hospital after a roadside shooting Saturday, is now accused of stealing from his now former law firm.

www.wjcl.com

He apparently leaves rehab a little over 3 weeks later (so about 4 weeks of being without drugs, if you count his time in the hospital). He is arrested and goes to jail, where in theory he is not using.

Alex Murdaugh arrested on felony charges after leaving drug rehab in Florida

The 53-year-old lawyer was taken into custody on two felony counts of obtaining property by false pretenses tied to the 2018 mysterious death of Gloria Satterfield.

nypost.com

We may never know what prompted his first illicit use of oxycodone, 20 or more years ago. I've never heard of him having an injury 20 years ago.

MOO.

 

[makayla]

Just watched Emily D Baker, Law and Lumber+, and they all complained about this trial, how both sides have played fast and loose, asking Leading questions, which are not generally allowed. Emily, a former California Prosecutor said this case should not have been brought, as there is much Info/Proof missing, and AM is already in Jail, so no rush. They also noted that it's obvious the Prosecutor was hungry to convict AM. Emily also thinks it's very possible AM knew the actual Killers, but may have not done the crime himself, so she might have charged him with complicity. They all also have doubts about the exact times of death. The podcast is Friday Night Frenzy/ Murdaugh Murder Trial-Prosecution Rests (Law and Lumber) on Youtube.
Listened, and can see some of their criticism, but You All and I have watched, gone back and forth, pointed out what WE have noticed, and I still feel he is Guilty as sin, But while one lawyer thinks Guilty verdict, the others thing perhaps Hung Jury. If I were a taxpayer in SC, I would be furious if they my tax dollars were wasted. Just MOO
Wanted to make you aware and get Your input. Stay safe, and have a Happy Presidents Day

Thank you for the summary. I definitely don’t agree with EB and L&L in this case. I know during the Depp-Heard trial I watched many of the ”lawtubers”, and was often intrigued how there could be a variety of opinions. I kept watching the trial and forming my own opinion and was very relieved at the outcome. Hopefully I will be this time as well

 

[geevee]

I've been reading through Rudofsky's full timeline, and I'm shocked I tell you, just shocked that AM lied! The information he received that afternoon about Randolph was *not* that he was terminal, it was that a pulmonologist thought he had pneumonia and not cancer, and they were going to do some tests to verify if he was right or not. So AM getting out of the confrontation with the CFO by saying he's just received terrible news about his Dad was utter bullfeathers.

Okay, not surprised at all, and it backs up CW's theory that whenever AM is in a tight squeeze, he does something to get sympathy/distraction of the problem. Rock star Creighton, who knew he was so multi-talented?